Excavatus

You cannot prove a negative... That is the basic logic. You cannot prove the absence of a god, you cannot prove that we didn't land on the moon, People try to prove some positive, the only thing you can do is to disprove their proofs and that does not make the negative true, for example, somebody can give some arguments and evidence about the PRESENCE OF A RANDOM MM, you can disprove or invalidate or discredit those evidences, and that process means that the MM can be something out of random, but that process does not prove the MM is rigged or not. likewise, people try to disprove the evidence of the moonlanding, saying that the shots are fake, flag is etc etc.. bla bla... this doesn't prove that we DIDN'T land on the moon... again, you cannot prove a negative.. it is impossible... You can only prove the MM is rigged, you cannot prove the MM is not rigged..

ok, read the bold parts now.. . . now read this below.. THAT IS NOT TRUE!... So anything following this statement, albeit a question, an opinion, anything for that matter... is void...

Just upto the 4th point you had me.. but nothing you've wrote will alter your global WR but only change your WR in some ships.. for better or worse.. on the other hand.. how do you poke the MM? and more importantly, how does MM reacts to that?

Mr. Atlanta cannot fire to 15.5kms, It is impossible in the boundaries of the game, and no there can't be a "cheat" to manipulate a single ship's firing range. Nevertheless, If you are still convinced about this, this would be a very new, highly sophisticated cheating software which is clearly penetrating the WG game servers and make changes without someone even noticing it. So, In that case, this is a very important responsibility for you, and the right place is not here. Please open a costumer ticket, provide the replay file of the match, (which your game AUTOMATICALLY RECORDS) give the timestamps into the ticket and inform WG. This place is not the right place to do that. Locked Gd'day!

I really dont understand the confusion here really.. Dear OP, you asked that, why do you need to spend more dubloons for the respeccing the captains you've already bought with dubloons. you were asking, why do I need to spend money for something I actually bought for money. The answer is quite clear, you cannot ask why for something that really doesn't exist.. you don't HAVE to spend dubloons for respeccing your captain, and you can do that with silver and Elite captain XP for small amounts. and those things are as far as I've known, are free.. so spending money for something you bought for money, notion just jumps from the 3rd floor and only thing we hear is SPLAT!!

how ? how can you test that? I really wonder... no sarcasm, no insults nothing. I just really am curious.

wellcome to the show, please read the thread from the start before forming any opinions.. Just a suggestion.

Don't get me wrong, trying to identify different situations of team damage and making alternatives in the automated system is a very different thing. But I am talking on a little different perspective, torpedos are the most deadly weapons in this game.. and in naval history. Not talking about the hit rates or something, I am talking about the devastation potential of them. So a DD or cruiser captain has to be extra extra careful to use them. as beloved spider said once, Great power brings great responsibility!

Getting pink... even for a 100 matches... is not a punishment, that is a just a warning, there is no down side on that.. on the other hand.. NEVER EVER TORP FROM THE SECOND LINE especially with slow torpedos. Thats a no no.. It does not matter whatever the reason is. If you torp an ally thats your fault

See, When you don't get defensive and does not take everything an attack on you, we can communicate very very clearly. I thank you for the above reply, that was actually what I was expecting. So, yes, you like a lot of people, can have different reasons to buy a premium ship. but in the end it goes down to have fun to enjoy them while playing. But you have to admit, all of this fuss created mainly because you said "I wouldn't buy a mediocre ship" and that literally translates into "I want an OP ship" in the eyes of a great deal of people here, me including.. which you didn't mean. So the basic point here is, you don't want GC to be a tier 6 because you're afraid you may lose your enjoyment playing that ship, and that is perfectly understandable. Always keep in mind that, not only here but also almost all on forums (as far as I've seen) you need to be really and perfectly clear to make people understand you. Or things go haywire before even you begin .. ....but I didn't... guys list... Anyway, performance parameters can be a deciding factor for a person to buy a premium ship and that is completely acceptable for me. silver or premium it does not matter, If I'm gonna keep a ship in my port, I want to be good in it. But If a ship, any ship brokes the game like GC, brokes the balance in her own tier, and it can be shown with clear proof, I believe one should not be opposed for it to be changed and balanced even though the said one owns the ship. Because you may protect your own precious today, but you may suffer for under some other consequences tomorrow with no right to complain about a similar situation..

Sorry mate, there is none.. this was just a statistical random simulation I worked on my free time :) good good :) I like this.. I can get into it on weekend. The thing is, you are right, but since we accept that the MM does not care about player skill or levels at all, I thought It was completely ok to take random numbers as player contribution values into the battle. and I still think it works on a basic level. MM can pick any player with any skill level at any given time. So we get 15 random players on 1 team, and get 14 randoms on another.. then add our constant player with for example 50 points (yeah it should be 50.5 for the average) into the 14 men team to see how does it change the outcome. And since those random numbers and 1 constant are the battle contribution, that means bigger number means :) I really cant see the problem you wrote there.. the self fulfilling prophecy.. The contribution of the constant player gets bigger, the win chance and WR gets higher... what is wrong with that deduction. PS: I am discussing about the system.. and dont get me wrong, I am not advocating that it was correct.. just try to understand your point. you cannot get player contribution data from the battles.. At least not at this basic level and not this quick. that takes a lot long, and will be open to discussion worse than this. Basically you need to create a new formula like WN8 to calculate the player contribution :)

It depends, did he started with %60 and recently playing with %46? or he started with %45 and recently playing %61? Nope... tier 8 is better I agree, 250 battles are too low... but you are right, just let me add this, I am trying to say, as a general assessment WR is the best skill indicator we have. When I see for example a %55 WR player, that means he is good.. so I need to go down to look for WHY he is good? WHERE he is good? WHEN he is good? etc etc... these are all depends, will define a player with some of the following, * good player * seal clubber * payfast owner * p2w I am just jokin with the above BTW, On the other hand when I see a %45 WR player I only look for one thing... battle numbers.. that player can only be one of either, * bad player * new player Thats all I am trying to say Not to be a backhole but these are my own stats per tiers.. I suck at tier 10 :) much better at tier 8

I have an objection for a small part of this, Everybody is an athlete but some of them runs, some of them jumps, some of them throw things. If you put usain bolt into paul vaulting, he may do good but he cannot be the best like being the best sprinter. So it is understandable a player has "better" skill in DDs or "worse" in BBs Even though lets say only talk about runners, some are sprinters some are mid distance some are long.. So I can understand a person plays really good at tier 5 or 7 and can suck on high tiers or even vice a versa I really cannot play anything below tier 5 for example... The point is, people may be better in someships than others, people may be better in some tiers than others, then they will tend to stick those tiers and ships for having more fun I would like to look at specific tiers and classes and ships AFTER looking into global WR because a %45 WR player is not worth, but when I see a %57 WR player and check him to see he has %90 battles in between tiers 5 to 7 and only %40 WR at tiers 9 and 10 my reaction will really depend on what tier we are in

Very nice observation on your own :) a single stat cannot show the skill of a player completely... but I would like to think that, how can you define personal skill? I say, your contribution into battle... so for me, WR is the best, not the perfect but the best stat to singlularly show that contribution... If you contribute much, you win more. Thats all I believe about this. I had a scottish friend who always used that expression, Appereantly scottish football defenders don't renowned by their excellent shooting skills :)

Final warning, Please stop with personall attacks and arguments. Thank you

Ok, guys just to invervene early. I think we shouldn't go into personal discussions. this thread is about the statistical work being done on WR vs Skill argument, and the deductions we can do from its results. I will remove anything unrelated. I don't want this thing turning into a cesspool..

I guess you missed it but I've already said that I did this work a couple years back when I playing World Of Tanks. The battles are 15vs15 over there. I can do this for 12vs12 since I have all the macros and files stored somewhere. I guess it was too long for you to concentrate or bother to read I don't know. But I'll try to summarise it a little, Basically (I am talking a 15vs15 WOT environment) what ever you do unless you deliberately teamkill, you will lose %38 of your games regardeless, even If you are the BEST player on the planet. and whatever you do, you will roughly win %38 of the matches you played even If you go AFK on all of them.. The rest 24 is decided by your skill and contribution into that battle to be more precise... So yes, you will lose some battle because your teammates are bad yes you will win some battles because your enemies are worse, Yes divisions will have a better effect on WR, but If you really believe WR is decided by MM, you will continue to struggle in this game.. Because pushing your WR from %40 to %50 is in your hands.. there is nothing to do with your team or enemy team.. Even though I am a hopeless optimistic, reading your choice of words and style, I fear that all of those words I've just written will miss the post like a scothish defender misses the goal. Some people even make me to laugh at your jokes, This is a very interesting place my friend :) Stay unsalty, you are a good spice for this forum!

From our side of the view we are right.. there is nothing to discuss but we can go into detail, about it.. I may do this for 12 vs 12 for wows.. lets see how people react first. because If the Base level for losses is %38 and a player has %32 WR, that means he is actually doing harm to his own team..

Hello gentelmen, from a couple years back I had a very detailed statistic work out for skill vs WR subject, I first was planned to paste it here then I decided to open a new thread about it because it is too long. here is the link for it

I measure my success with my fun... Not with any numbers or anything. I've had a lot of fun when I lost and didn't have any fun on some wins. but usually, I have fun when I do good, kill people, carry games, win battles, etc etc... then I can say I measure my success to my contribution into that victory and the help I gave to my teammates.

OK at least I tried, First of all, It does not matter what mediocre means in your language, because we are talking in enlish here. and second, you accuse people for not understanding your meaning behind the words, and say you explained it, but you only said, "If you gonna buy a car, would you buy a mediocre car?" does not mean anything here really. and for the clarification, I didn't accuse of you anything, and I clearly said, I didn't understand what you meant, and express my desire to understand before even comment. Again, At least I tried... even though I failed, Have a good day!

Just one question to clarify, Doesn't the above sentence means, "I would only buy a ship, If it is stronger than mediocre" Just for additional information, mediocre /ˌmiːdɪˈəʊkə/ adjective adjective: mediocre of only average quality; so, we can translate your sentence into this I guess.. "I would not buy an average quality ship!" Which again means, You only and only buy a ship, which is clearly above average... How does this not mean P2W? I am really asking.. really curious because you said people doesn't understand the meaning behind your words. And please don't give the car example again, you are not getting in a combat with other people on roads.. If you happen to buy a tank to protect yourself someday, then we can use real life examples about this. On the other hand, there are some literally crap Premium ships, which thousands of people buy just to collect them or love their history. every body buys premium ships for a different reason, and your reason because of your above mentioned sentence, looks like only the ship being stronger than the average ship in the game. Can you please clarify that.. So we can comment on it AFTER UNDERSTANDING the meaning behind your words.

As a tier 10 BB, These don't give too much XP, Damaging other tier 10 BBs without killing them Damaging tier 10 CAs without killing them These will give moderate XP, Killing enemies, (any of them) These will give great XP, Damaging DDs, capping, defendin, shooting down planes, more XP = more credits and use a prem camo for your tier 10s, WG tier 10 is the money sink they used to either populate the mid tiers or make people spend money. If you are thinking you should be able to play tier 10s just with premium acc with always a positive outcome... I am sorry but you are completely mistaken. Trust me.. get a prem tier 10 camo.. all your problems will go away. That is the escape pod of tier 10 economy.

That is my point actually, If removing the class makes %15 of the playerbase unhappy but the rest %85 happy, but keeping and desperetaly trying to make it work makes %50 - %50 then.. My opinion is removing them.. Thank god my opinion about the subject is completely worthless for WG :) or we will be all sailing in yamatos with 20km shima torps with kitakami numbers! and mino reload on main guns!

Personal attacks are all been cleared, please behave... everyone.. Excavatus