MRGTB

Got Asashio B yesterday and been playing it today. I find it a fun ship to use so far, when I don't generally like playing DD's much (normal ones). Well I do like playing them, but I'm just not good enough in normal DD's to enjoy them as much. The play style is very different from that of a normal DD... that is, if you play to it's main strength of keeping distance and shooting torps from a longer range. I think if you tried to play this ship like a normal DD that can torp anything (up close and personal), you will not like it due to it's low HP pool and inability to realistically fight other DD's. You cannot fight other DD's in it and expect not to be killed 9 times out of 10. It isn't good enough to fight other DD's, so best to avoid close battles with normal DD's, even try and avoid them spotting you. It's simply a long range torp'er and best played that way trying to avoid ever being spotted. An easier DD to play than normal ones, in the sense that you can always keep a good distance from being spotted and are still able to use torps. So suits those who are pretty poor (low skilled) at playing normal DD's much closer in. As for the Black camo (on B version). Yeah it looks very nice, same way it does on the Matty B also. It is limited in what it can torp, only BB's and CV's. That doesn't really bother me because most matches you play there's always some BB's usually left at the end to go for. Or you can simply use the ship to spot enemy or cap towards the end of games if no BB's are left. Which isn't very often the case, so don't find it's limitation seriously effects it's use that much and it's still has guns for using at the end.

How comes you don't take BFT, along with AFT? I thought both was needed for a secondary build? You can see the recommended skill build in mouses review of the Matty, and BFT is listed as one skill needed. https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/162316-premium-ship-review-104-massachusetts/ The route I have followed so far with the Matty is the same as this build. I have an 11 point captain so far and have the same skills as this image except for not having enough skill points yet for Manual Sec and IFHE. But was considering doing 4 points for Concealment instead if there's any truth that IFHE is being scrapped. So if you think the build I'm doing is wrong. It's the same as this build above. The only reason I mentioned "concealment" skill. Was because if IFHE is going, then concealment seemed the next best thing to go for with the ship only having a short range gunnery of 18k with a stock spotted range of 16k, plus it only does 27 knots making it hard to escape any incoming fire once spotted. So the option to use the concealment module in the last slot in combination with the same skill looks the next best good choice instead of IFHE. Here is another case for using Concealment instead of IFHE. If you use the concealment module (but without the skill), it gets it down to 14+. So I'm betting with the skill used also it comes down to around 12+ concealment. The secondary guns (with flag used) shoot at 11+ range, so you can get in range virtually undetected (hopefully) to 1k short of your secondary guns kicking in, or 2 k range (without flag used). That means concealment skill +module can make it easier to get much closer in range to use secondary guns before being spotted and taking any incoming shots. Plus the main battery guns are also far more effective once you get closer in unspotted. Not to mention that having 12+ vs 16+ concealment with only 18k range main guns (when spotter plane is not in use) is bad at T9/10 matches. It ain't like your running away from from any incoming fire at T9/10 fast doing only 27 knots. That better concealment can be a life saver for the Matty when playing in T9/10 matches. Especially against T9/10 Cruisers shooting from behind Islands at you. I get that using IFHE means you can pen Cruisers and thus you'll earn more damange than not using it with secondary guns. So I'm not saying that concealment is the better option than IFHE. But if IFHE is going, dunno? Then using 4 point concealment instead would seem the next logical best step.

WG say it has long range shooting. But really it doesn't have at all with 20k, not when playing mostly in up-tiered battles where lots of T9/10 BB's have a shooting range in excess of 20k. Had this been a T7 ship, which I think it should have been classed as T7 and not 8. As nothing about this ship for me is "competitive enough" to play at T9/10. Then you could say the range was good as a T7 ship, but no way at T8 does this have long range shooting. And it is limited to 20k because it has no spotter planes or module you can install to boost the range further either. And ironically. A ship like the Massy B, which is classed as having short range of 18k. Can still be boosted using the Plotting Room module to have the same (if not further range shooting than this). And has a spotter plane if you keep the short 18k distance to still shoot further than this ship. Plus all the other things it has - 9 guns (not 8 like this), good secondary guns and hard hitting ACP shells. Well protected Citadel unlike this ship, decent torp protection (unlike this ship), decent AA (about the same as this ship). I mean, what exactly does this ship have going for it at all as a T8 sold? For me, this ship is not a T8 ship as it stands right now, it should have been sold as T7, but they won't do that because they already have 3 Brit BB's at T7 premium: Hood, DOY and Nelson. What they should do with the Vanguard is up the shooting range from 20k to about 23k, then it can be seen as worth playing at T9 and 10.

Read a few saying here and there that IFHE is going. Dunno, that's what it kind of read like to me? Maybe somebody else can confirm or deny it.

The ship is best played with full secondary range, even though you have a few options to not do that. Even without the flag to extend range to max, you get around 10.9k which I have on mine right now without the flag. It funny to play boosting secondary guns, it seem to have a high arc and can fire over small islands and still hit the targets weaker super structure causing fires. John Doe should be fine used with Matty. He comes with boosted Expert Loader and Expert Marksman. Both those skills can be useful on any BB. I do find the Matty to be a little slow on turret transverse lining all 3 turrets up together to get full volley shots, so Expert Marksman would certainty benefit Matty with faster turret transverse, and switching shell type faster is always useful as well for any BB. I have read that IFHE skill is now going, if that is true then you can skip using 4 points for IFHE and use them instead on those two skills - I think each is a 2 pointer and make best use of John Doe with those two boosted skills he has. You can use 11 kills points on BFT, AFT, Manual Secondary, then another 4 points on those two boosted skills he has. That would leave you with skill 4 points left to use elsewhere. But I ended up going a different route so far. Using 11 skills on BFT, AFT and Manual Secondary. 4 skill points on AR, PT and PM (the turrets seem to get knocked out easy and probably why PM was recommended getting for 1 skill point). I'm thinking about using the last 4 points on concealment instead of IFHE (if that is going). Although, I would have liked to increase the turret traverse speed that I won't have any skill points left to do.

How do you use the duplicates to buy ones that you don't have?

I also noticed some missions state they can only be done in the Warsprite premium ship. Err... are they seriously expecting that people to go buy the Warsprite for £20 just to complete the missions? Stopped bothering with the UK missions after seeing that a few days ago. I did have the Warsprite funny enough as well, but have sold it on since because of buying and using a higher tier premium now to grind money with. Had no further use for it after that, so sold it.

The Massa is the same. it also has two types of planes you can use. So long range shots can be done the same as the Bizmarck using plane, or you can use the fighter plane instead.

I have faced the Biz and Tirp a few times now close up brawling to see how it does. I think they are pretty evenly matched overall. The biggest danger out the two is the Tirp because of the torps it has. Without them torps a Massa will beat the Tirp close up brawling easier than a Biz. I have beaten both in the massa close up (and don't have Manual Secondary used yet), but depends how good the player is really that you face. But I'd say all 3 are pretty evenly matched, each brawl has been a close run thing and the Tirp has only really beaten me because of the torps. But I have beaten a few tirps that didn't manage to land any torps on me close up. The better main guns on the Massa kills the Tirp close up, along with with secondary used unless he gets torp hits. The Biz probably has the best secondary, but again the better main Massa guns balances things out close up between the two. The Biz will always want to show his broadside too much to maximise his secondary gun damage, which again (just like the Tirp) leaves him open for main battery gun shots. It's hard against a Tirp because he's always looking to fire the Torps and will go broadside with you do it. But when he goes broadside and gets hit with 410mm 9 guns from the Massa close up, he knows it. And that's the risk between both when fighting. The Tirp has to go broadside to use his torps, which leaves him wide open to the massa strong guns. But then you have to dodge at same time after firing to avoid his torps. So for me, they are pretty much as strong as each other in their own ways.

There are two other things like you pointed out. Concealment is one of them but can be brought down to 14.2 I think with the concealment module used and 4 point CE captain skill. Which is useful when in T10 matches, mainly due the short 18+ k stock fire range. If you use the stock concealment range, then it isn't very good at 16+ k when your firing range is only 18+ k. You get detected at 18k after firing guns, which is pretty much the same range as the ships stock firing range (without plane used). So the minute you fire the guns in T10 matches at 18k, you pretty much get detected right away and are within range for most ships of T10 level to fire back at you (even many cruisers). Another thing is the gun range at only 18+k that can be extended to 21+ k, which would work well doing the extra gun range module and maxing concealment out with it. It would mean you can fire from 19-21k and remain undetected still. The problem with both used together though, or even just one of them. You lose a lot of the secondary gun power and secondary range. Right now I maxed out secondary on my building it up. Then use the 4th module slot for concealment to bring it down from 16+ to 14.6 I think it is. I was wondering if it's worth taking CE skill instead of IFHE for 4 points, but reading about it it's a big loss to secondary because IFHE makes it possible to pen Cruisers and lower Tier BB and can greatly improve secondary damage output. But it's a tough choice really between taking IFHE and CE as a 4th skill and max out concealment and firing range for T10 matches to be more safe. As there's a bit of a difference when your stock guns only do 18k range and concealment is either 16+ (before you even fire the guns) or 14.2 maxed out and 21k firing range. Common sense tells you it's better to max the gun range and concealment together for T10 matches you're in a lot. But the ship is all about them secondary guns though. Myself, I'm thinking I'll go the way of maxing out the secondary guns apart from using IFHE and pick CE instead used with the Concealment module. It'll still mean the main battery guns are only 18K fire range, but that lower 14.2 concealment does help you get away faster out of range from Cruisers firing HE from behind Islands at you. Not like the Massa is a fast ship at 27 knots to get away from it quick - so that extra 2k gained then concealment kicks in is very much needed at times.

Is IFHE available for the Massa B? I already have BFT and AFT installed, but don't have Manual Secondary yet. But see there is a cross through IFHE as though it's not available to use as a skill? Read somebody say it is still available to use (even with a cross through it), but when you hover over the skill it says it's not compatible.

I would also consider a T7 premium such as the Shorn, another ship that has good secondary build to use if that's what you want. The problem with T8 premiums like the Massy and Tirp, you'll end up in mostly T9 and T10 battles where your ship is greatly outmatched. But with a T7 premium that is nowhere near as bad with MM and more balanced even when up-tiered. So I find T7 better overall to play at with a premium than T8 premium ships. Be careful with the Massy at T8 because it only has a short 18k main battery gun range at T10, which is bad when most other BB ships can shoot much further than you, 21k+. You can extend the range to 21k with a module, but doing so means you have to sacrifice doing a full secondary gun build. Personally, I would go for a T8 that has very long shooting range, the further the better really. It will be better suited to playing T10 matches seeing as everyone mostly tends to shoot at distance in them.

Hmm, you'll have a hard time beating the Massa one v one. Same secondary each really, but Massa has much better main guns. I did face a Tirp today with another ship shooting at me with him. And I died just before killing the tirp. He couldn't match me on guns close up. I wrecked him close up and secondary between both is really no different to make much of a difference. It'll boil down to main guns and Tirp can't match the Massa on that, unless he gets his torps in to win. You won't beat a Massa on secondary guns close up, if you think you can rely on that winning the fight compared to other BB's with poor secondary guns. They are too evenly matched while the massa can outgun a Tirp easy with main battery guns close up. But sure, yeah you have the torps that makes that difference if you get a hit

Is there any difference between the stock Massa and Tirp to B versions. Thought it was only the unique black camo that's different

I like my Hood. I was caught between getting the DOY or Hood. I was going to get the DOY for the gun layout. But after reading all the terrible comments about it went with the Hood even though I didn't fancy it's 8 gun layout spread across a long ship. But ends up it's fun to play. Fast to get around to different places on map and escapes being fired at pretty well too when needed. All in all a fun ship and it can take some punishment as well. But still dislike it only having 8 guns, which is why I won't buy another Brit premium with same 8 gun layout

Lol, how long did we wait for a T8 premium tank in WOT to come also, years while all other nations have one or more T8 heavy tanks for sale. I do get this "thing" where it looks like WG doesn't want to give the Brits anything "decent" (that can really compete) at the right Tier level 8. Ironically I went and bought the Massa B other day instead. Not because I wanted an American BB to play, but because I wanted a decent T8 premium with some good things about it that the Brits don't have.

I'm British, so I mainly only want to buy Brit premiums and already have the Hood, also had Warsprite but sold that on since. Was too slow for me that ship! Wasn't bothered about that Dreadnought ship, it's only a low tier ship so would never have used it as a credit earner. Thing with the Vanguard, like the Hood and Warsprite it's a 4 turret (2 gun per turret layout - only 8 guns) which is no different from the Hood and Warsprite. Had they released a T8 Brit premium with 3 gun or 4 gun per turret (similar to DOY) I'd have bought it. But don't like these Brit BB ships with only 2 gun turret layouts. Not so bad if having 5 turrets (10 guns) in total. But 8 guns is too lacking really, and many have pointed that out after buying the Vanguard. I already knew that and why I avoided buying it, just another Warsprite/Hood with same 8 gun layout.

That is true. I was considering getting the Vanguard until looking close at it and seeing it offers nothing really, except a good rudder shift time. Not exactly a worthwhile reason to buy it unless you're planning on dodging torps all game.

Keep in mind that great concealment and long torp range won't always work for you stuck in 90% of T10 matches with Radars being a common thing, plus other ways to spot you when other DD's hit the cap at same time with equally good concealment and spot you for others. My point being, it doesn't always work having it. There are many ways in which you can still end up spotted. Also, the main thing about the ship is it's better guns with less torps. The minute you fire the guns, yep your cover is blown. The RN smoke screens last what, about 40 seconds compared to other nations DD's that lasts far longer. So you have much shorter time being covered by a smoke screen once spotted, nor to fire the guns in one for long being hidden.

The Massa has bigger calibre guns, and more of them (9) than the Tirpitz (8). No surprise the Massa does more damage with main guns. But the Tirpitz does have Torps and a slightly longer firing range, plus it is faster than the Massa. So there is the difference. Massa is all about the bigger guns. The Tirpitz is about the Torps + Smaller Guns Both are about the same with Secondary guns and range

Most players I see using the Tirpitz tend to rush the centre of the map straight away and get killed fast. I think many do it using the ship as just a credit earner for playing top T10 ships. So not surprised the stats are bad for it. The Massa (as already said) is a pretty new ship in comparison, so guess most are playing that more proper as their main ship. I have noticed in games that the Tirpitz always seems to burn dead easy

I think you are all missing the point of what he meant. Due to the long fire range the Bart has, he means just sitting there at distance in the back - out of range of most other ships shooting range and picking off distance shots when spotted trying to farm damage "but not moving from one spot". To be fair, I can't say I've seen any Barts doing that in my games, they tend to play proper moving around the map. But I have seen plenty Mushasi doing it though. Too many in fact! So it is not much different from a lot of players that own and play the Mushasi. They tend do the same thing and can fire even further at 26.5k compared to the Bart at 24.5k.

Those that pointed out that the Massa lacks shooting range. Remember you can sacrifice installing the Secondary Gun module in favour of installing the Plotting Room module that will extend the shooting range of main battery to just over 21k. Although not ideal if you want to build the Secondary range to max. Seeing as the Massa starts with 7.5 range default for Secondary guns and you can install BFA and AFT that will extend it further. You can still have pretty decent range for secondary guns - even without the Secondary Module used in favour of extending the main battery range also. Admittedly it can be a little frustrating at times, more so in tier 10 matches only having a short 18+ k range for main battery. As trying to move in closer for shots when most tier 10 BB's have ranges that might be 21+ k is risky.

But the thing is.. it isn't really nice to play a DD, more so if you're only an average or poor skilled DD player. If you decide to play more cautious like the other person said, not wanting to get killed in the first 5 minutes. You'll get flamed for doing so, accused of not playing a DD proper because you didn't go rushing in like a loon trying to cap at the very start. And it happens every single game, you get tired of people moaning in each match if you don't rush in when playing a DD. I play a BB 99% of the time and I never tell DD's to go rush in. They should be able to play their own style of game based on what suits their skill level in a DD. No point rushing in to fight other DD, not if you're not good enough in one. You're better playing more cautious game. But then you only have people crying all the time because you didn't rush in on caps with a DD. I'm not a good DD player. Tried them and realised I'm not good enough to keep rushing in trying to battle other better skilled DD players and always dying right at the start. So I give over playing DD's because of the mentality of other players towards them, always expecting you to rush in and die fast.

That is the main problem really. At the start of a game you'll hear BB players usually telling DD's to go rush the caps. And any that don't do it, they usually get flamed for holding back. But it only leads to DD's dying fast most of the time. It's the same thing that used to happen in WOT, Heavy tank players expecting light tanks to rush in spotting for them and dying fast. I see the same thing going on in WOWS with BB players telling DD's to rush in and spot for them, and if they don't they get accused of not playing a DD ship proper.