1MajorKoenig

I take you word on that. However you still have the component of shutting down the other CV if he’s worse in handling the fighters. And to round up this line of thoughts - do you consider any other CVs other than the T10s too impactful after rework?

I am not labelling all RTS CVs necessarily OP but the set of possibilities they had made the class in the previous state indeed very impactful compared to any other class. Although Hosho was OP AF as far as I remember until they removed the manual stomp/drop on T4 and I remember high tier games being pretty much 1-vs-1 including really nasty perma spotting in multiple areas in the unlikely event a CV was part of the match. Yea that wasn’t great. But I think I explained what the general issue with the old RTS CVs was in the eyes of WG and with regards to the overall game before. But yes - impact on the battle was certainly one of them. Which RTS carriers did not have an exposed spot with regards to impact? I mean how many out of the total? Btw and slightly off topic: My main criticism with the RTS model was “only” the lack of immersion. I just found it unfun to play. Which doesn’t hugely matter as I am not the one to decide which system is used but which is part of the “make CVs more popular to play” thing which worked for me and if you look at the games for a lot of other players. I wasn’t a CV hater before the rework by any means - I simply didn’t care as I couldn’t force myself to play them and never really encountered them in battles either. But I really like the reworked CV and I am annoyed by ppl trying to grab any straw to bad mouth the entire class - be it due to missing the old RTS or be it due to simply jump on the hate train at a convenient time. This whole discussion has nothing to do with constructive feedback

Pointless question? You what mate? It is a big difference (and likely a very different solution) if you are talking about a single ship or two or if you talk about all ships of a class. For example - do you find Hosho OP or having a huge impact? Or Ryujo or Graf Zeppelin? My impression is once more that you are using some individual ships that are potential too powerful to support your case

I said skill gap is a misleading term as it sounds like different skill is the problem. It is not - it is necessary to reward ppl getting better. The problem is skill gap combined with impact. And yes we seem to disagree on the potential impact of a CV in the new world. You seem to rate it a lot higher than I would. Out of curiosity: are you referring to all CVs or only Midway?

Are you nuts??? Why would I take less drugs...? I am on vacation and there is no way I’ll stay sober But that aside - saying there are bad players doesn’t indicate that there is a large skill gap. There are always good and bad players no matter how simple things are. That’s not a problem It’s only a problem if a large difference in skill meets having one decisive unit on the team. Because in that case it is hit or miss. Either your decisive unit is good -> you win or he is bad -> you lose. That is a problem. So the actual problem is: skill gap multiplied by impact of the unit devided by the number of such units. So the old style was the worst case that could happen - one unit with extreme impact and high skill variance. WG increased the numbers and reduced the impact - therefore skill variance (which undoubtedly is still there) isn’t such a big deal any more

I get your point bro. However hoping for a stable online game is like fighting windmills. WG will keep adding stuff and not all of it will improve the game (just think about the idiotic HE spamming Monkey BBs). A lot of the veterans are still dreaming of the early days with just IJN vs USN but time moved on. See I like DDs a lot and played them more recently. Sure it’s different but it will evolve. WG will keep on working on DD vs CV balance. And I have fun playing the new CVs and don’t think they are a big problem playing against them. I get that most of you are thinking T10 only (and apparently Big E) but that is individual ships’ balance. So while it is important to give feedback we shouldn’t expect that WG will change each and every single bit just because some very vocal individuals demand it. Mind you that it doesn’t look like currently that the overall player numbers are affected by the rework and the CV numbers indicate a much higher popularity. Btw S_O mentioned that DD CV interaction will see some further changes so let’s see what’s behind that

One honest word here and I don’t want to come across like a d*** but the game is supposed to please all sorts of players. There are a lot of elements I dislike very much - yea literally hate. But you won’t find that the game will be to 100% and always to your liking. Is this game fun for you? Play it. Is it in sum just not - think about it. But don’t expect it to be EXACTLY like you want it to be. It’s not gonna happen. So better accept that there will be pros and cons and a grand total which is either positive or not. Because right now - no hard feelings - you (and some of your CV hater fellows) come across like spoiled kids. Which I am sure you are not

And you base this statement on what exactly? My impression is that what was erroneously called “skill gap” is indeed not longer a thing

Skillgap or what they actually meant by it should indeed be fixed

No dude this point about 2d/3d is completely irrelevant. Sorry. And no, nobody wants to go back to the RTS system - better get this out of your system

I don’t share the opinion that CVs need to share the same restrictions. Why making all things perfectly uniform? Make destroyers as slow as BBs? What I meant is that any real characteristic can be translated into different game mechanics to portray it. You can use that to shape your overall game model - which is just that: a model roughly portraying Naval battles in a highly condensed and bent way. So rather than pressing all classes into the same pattern you look at what your problems are and create mechanics to solve these. Example: a small ship wouldn’t stand a chance against a BB so WG created this wonky BB dispersion. Or: small shells do negligible damage to big ships so WG came up with fires and IFHE. And so on. Now: if spotting is your issue you could easily create different solutions for that - some possibilities I mentioned above. There may be plenty ore if you think about it further. Same for the DD CV interaction which is one of the frequently brought up issues (which is partially linked to the other topic). Again there are multiple ways to solve it. But That doesn’t make CVs impossible to balance.

They used the term when we talked about the rework but it is not a good term to describe the actual problem. Did they really go back on this ? This is however not a principle but a logical consequence from removing any meaningful alpha strike. Which comes back to the goal “decrease impact of a good CV player”. If your Torpedo does a stunning 2500 Damage - do you still want to prevent it from being dropped? It’s all part of making things less “hit or miss”.

Well my dear this is either way missing the point. Your “principles” are just some subjective interpretations by your valued selve. Which would be ok unless you are basing your claim “the rework can’t be fixed” on these. If you cross that bridge they should be true - which I deny based on the goals and measures WG gave. Sure you know whatever principles (if any) you adopt they need to lead you towards your goals - which are more or less known in this very case

Not sure if you got me right but you certainly can’t measure the impact of either proposal today. Amyway - a limited number of strikes isn’t going to work and I am pretty sure WG won’t go that way

I see you are interested in a civilized discussion Goals are what define the measures and principles.

WG stated multiple times they want to: - make CVs more popular (compared to the RTS state of the union mind you) - more accessible for new players - reduce the impact of a good CV player - reduce the impact of having two not equally skilled CV players facing each other (which was unfortunately coined as “skillgap” which is not necessarily the problem itself but the term was used) As means to achieve this WG decided to: - reduce alpha damage drastically and emphasize DoT to partially compensate - mostly eliminate multi tasking by controlling only one strike squadron - remove CV vs CV interaction mostly to it shut down each other - eliminate deplaning - introduce a more immersive 1st person view compared to the rather unattractive RTS interface

Wrong question - where did you get these from? Comparing these to what WG stated as their targets they are pretty off. Hence the question where you got them from (let me guess: your own impression/interpretation of the results - which is not necessarily a principle)

No he won’t because the spotting planes would enable his team to focus a target

I think that would be too much honestly. Potentially there needs to be something done about perma spotting sure. Possible solutions: - implement a “transmit Recon” button for X seconds with a Y seconds cooldown - create a new unarmed squadron type that is able to spot / remove spotting from all others Limiting the amount of strikes is too strict to work in such a game. Plus if you are talking about balance it seems like some individual ships at T10 could be looked at (from what I heard here). But that isn’t a general problem off the rework

Der Vorschlag Österreichs sollte nicht für zu viel Verwirrung sorgen. Es kristallisiert sich ein Faktor zwischen 3 und 4 heraus - wie steht GB zu Faktor 4 @Tobnu?

Just what I thought - not a single good reason. Oh dear where to start: - so yo can’t “evade” a CV attack? Of course you can evade. Not each and every strike but you can’t eveade all shells in any other ship either - “only Auto AA” - same General issue as old version but do you have Auto defense against incoming BB shells? No...? But I give you that the AA system sucks balls and is in need of a complete rework. But nevertheless - it’s not “the rework” either - either way none of the above is “inherent to the rework” hence this “can’t be balanced” fairy tale is just that (more of a “I want something else” fairy tale) and once and for all - the old RTS system wasn’t any better. It was just that nobody gave a damn because nobody played it

You could position it as a trade off. Leave AA manual at mediocre efficiency and manoeuvre well or take manual control of AA and spend less focus on manoeuvring with the known risks

Not sure where you are getting these from but these are certainly not the rework principals

I would conduct a test on the “transmit Recon to team” button with a time of transmission “X” and a Cooldown “y”. I wouldn’t Limit the Consumable in charges just govern it via transmission duration and Cooldown. Another interesting proposal by @Pikkozoikum was to remove spotting from all strike planes and add a new squadron dedicated to spotting but being unarmed. I would test that as well.

You only said you can engage any opponent which isn’t surprising as you are an experienced player and is frankly not different to any other class. You didn’t say why in your opinion the rework can not be balanced. You just claimed it.