1MajorKoenig

Update China: - ermuntert durch Trotzki rufen die Kommunisten in der Provinzen Jiangxi eine Chinesische Sowjetrepublik aus - Chiang Kai-Shek wird die Kommunisten immer mal wieder angreifen aber in der Größe des Landes und der Geographischen Bedingungen dort wird das keinerlei Entscheidung bringen. - die Russen werden Mao tatkräftig unterstützen, vor allem mit Ausrüstung was ja das größte Problem historisch war ————————— OT: ich habe mit diesem Bürgerkrieg folgendes Problem: wir starten etwa zu der Zeit als sich die beiden großen Fronten klar herausgebildet hatten. Die Kommunisten haben dann stückweise ihre personelle Basis erweitert - teils auch mit Versprechen wie „jeder Kämpfer erhält etwas Land“. Wir packen in unserer Zeitleiste nun Trotzkis Waffenlieferungen mit dazu so dass es Ausrüstungstechnisch wesentlich ebenbürtiger wird als in echt. Mein Problem ist allerdings - allein auf Grund der Größe des Landes wird der Bürgerkrieg trotzdem Jahre gehen. Wahrscheinlich unter den geänderten Vorzeichen nicht 20 aber dennoch mehrere Jahre. Wir befinden uns ja noch so im Dunstkreis 1928 - wie wollen wir das ohne allzu große zeitliche Verwirrung machen?

Ah ok - honestly I didn’t notice. I play her super aggressive and wouldn’t have noticed the difference. Strangely I never liked Bama for whatever reasons but love Massa

She is easily the most fun T8 BB - maybe slightly broken but fun AF. + Good protection + excellent punch on the 40cm guns + good overall mobility + meme Secondaries which synergize nicely with the Georgia Captain and scare ppl (Secs aren’t really scary but a lot of people panic regardless) + good AA (as some brought it up) So why get her? Well she’s really good. Although the secondary captain skill gets butchered soon - that needs to be kept in mind. Although her secondary accuracy is better to begin with so the negative impact on her is smaller

Sorry my bad - probably forgot more ppl

Just playing Sinop and Lenin at the minute and I simply kill any Bismarck long before they could pass me. German BNs aren’t exactly scary - they eat massive Pen damage, have small non-overmatching and inaccurate guns and tall superstructure. Pretty easy opponents really. Not that Secondaries would change that but they are fun at least So brawl a B-Marck in a Sinop? Hell yes of course! Free pinatas

Nope. Brawling tends to happen exclusively in later game stages - at least on the higher tiers (in the beginning of the match there is little chance for success you would even make it into brawl range). In later game stages Cross fires are usually no issue and unless you casually drive by your opponent - in which case you deserve to get blabbed - your citadel does matter jack Heck to make it extreme - there is no difference of you brawl in a Kii or in a Turpitz. It simply doesn’t matter - citadel wise. Ok you are saying a useful feature for complete ignorants... well ok. I give you that. Ok I wasn’t dead serious with the (ridiculous OP) Russian super dispersion suggestion. It was more to point out the stupidity of the change itself. I think the German BBs should keep their Flavour with the secondary guns. But I agree with the OP that there should be some sort of compensation for the loss of half the accuracy basically which will translate naturally into half the damage

What a nonsense. But regardless - let’s briefly summarize as I have something more interesting I want to discuss. The facts are: 1) Torpedobombers are almost identical in numbers pre/post rework given an estimated average 15min match time. Exceptions are CVs with very small RTS deck complements 2) Dive bombers likewise 3) for the rest there is no agreement on how to compare it. Essentially the rest ist: RTS manually controlled fighter squadrons VS. rework Rocket fighters plus the fighter consumable. Some here rate the rework complement higher - I am inclined to find the RTS part for this third section both more useful and worthy. But I am afraid we won’t find an agreement. Nevertheless the old “infinite” plane fairytale can be put to rest. ——————————————————— NOW: on to more interesting questions! That other thread on three potential CV improvements got me thinking about fighters in general. I absolutely hate the current consumable model and find it lame, sloppy and it looks - just as AA - like a complete afterthought in the rework (which seems to be mostl built around the strike component more or less). I always thought that fighters would need to be manually controlled but I am curious now to your opinions - is that really a viable option? Let’s assume two scenarios: 1) fighters would become a manually played squad - pro: CV vs CV interaction - pro: possible to defend own fleet - con: own team will constantly complain in case they are not defended. Put that together with controlling only one flight (which would be either fighter OR strike) and you will inevitably have a constant whine fest - con: the better fighter player would have a disproportionate advantage and could potentially even lock down the enemy CV. Now let’s imagine - one CV active, the other “as good as AFK” - sounds bad. After all: are manual fighters too powerful of a tool to give to the players? 2) let’s assume we try to make fighter more part of the flight deck like other planes - would that work? Eg.: - give the CV one fighter squadron at their disposal just like strike planes with a flight size, number of spots on deck, regeneration time - instead of directly controlling these in 1st person we would keep the current consent of placing a patrol area for them. But rather than dropping it from a squadron we place it directly from the CV hull controls - I think El2azer brought this idea up - proposal: similar to the birds eye view for spotter planes or the ASW flight view - make these squadron more like RTS fighters that they dog fight anything in their patrol area. Not this “cancel each other out” but RNG supported dog fighting with circling, ammo, etc. - this would probably require some much quicker aggro time to make these a tool of area defense - this said area should be larger than the consumable area - returning fighters would be put back into the deck as any other planes as well and use regeneration in case of losss exactly as any other squadron - once ammo is consumed or patrol time is up send fighters back. Alternatively recall them manually - potentially let them fly high - same as German DBs - and make them very resilient or even immune against AA. As a compensation they shouldn’t spot ships (or just minimal) - would need to be tested but you get the general idea - once the fighter attack they should dive down to the bombers flight level to start the AI controlled dogfighting. Once they leave their high altitude they should become vulnerable to AA as any other plane (so still open a way for bombers to let them seek cover over friendly AA) - bombers would need rear gunners for rudimentary defense (AI) Now I am curious - what would you think about different options for fighters? Any opinions? @El2aZeR / @Bear__Necessities / @Zuihou_Kai / @BLUB__BLUB / @Pikkozoikum ?

They have one. It’s supposed to be their “strength” that it’s protected although a pretty useless strength. Unless the captain is completely braindead having a raised citadel is an absolute non-factor on BBs. Only exception where it matters: thin plating

Hey Toxic - long time no see :-) No news so far - WG probably building the next iteration. The good part is: they addressed some of the brought up issues one by one in the previous rounds (such as making depth charges manually instead of this idiotic circle hunt - this is not a cell phone game btw) However there are unfortunately still more than enough showstoppers left: - pinging needs to go - infinite dive time needs to go In my opinion subs should predominantly stay on the surface even and only use diving to escape or to attack for a short time

No they certainly won’t No - seriously. Just ask yourself if you would build a German BB below T7 for Secondaries today

Even if you could potentially hit more than one ship - the nerf is extreme and the result from the video is the expected one. Cut dispersion buff in half - cut damage in half. How should the occasional and situational hit on the the other side compensate for 50% damage output nerf?

@Sunleader - this time a fair point to be raised. Either range would need to be e significant gain (which it is not) or general accuracy needs to be better. Right now it looks like the skill will be making Secondaries obsolete. As solutions I would propose on of these options: - give German BBs Massa secondary formula - that way the German BBs keep the “secondary brawler” flavour - change the manual secondary skill to 50% better dispersion - or abandon all secondary fun Builds and give the German BBs the Russian main gun formula

Thanks explaining in a way I understand it

Yes they did. They replaced balanced decks with strike decks. Fighters and AA seem to be more of an afterthought Not wrong and frankly the only use for them really. Doesn’t change though that they are not part of your deck, regeneration, control, etc

Of course it isn’t. Hence why I left that part of the conplement out initially. But even with all of that it shows that there is no vastly infinite flow of planes - it is not hugely different apart from the small flight decks in low tiers. I was simply pointing out that the regeneration mechanics don’t have such a huge impact as some here try to make it look like. Certainly small decks benefit but for larger ones the difference isn’t significant. Regardless of absolute numbers it spreads the availability of planes over the match more even and prevents idiots from burning their planes immediately. It is more or less a help for players to manage their deck.

Nope - and by fighter spotting you can even focus down DDs pretty good. Even without rockets. But that is not even the point - rocket fighters wont prevent strikes or spotting. Basically WG replaced the CV interaction through fighters with anti DD interaction through rockets in the third squadron slot. But we are going in circles now

Good question... garbage? They are for sure completely different as they are one time use only, not controllable and the results are 100% pre determined

Again I am not ignoring them in the second set of numbers. And honestly I would like to take an air superiority Squadron as third squadron over these anti DD rocket fighters if I had a choice. Manual controlled Fighters can still keep DDs spotted and can on top stop the enemy CV for a good part. In essence I would rate the RTS fighters even more valuable than these stupid rocket planes - but again: a comparison isn’t straight forward. Which doesn’t mean that you can’t compare them though - both fill the function of the CV’s third capability type

No - I compare the classes on by one. And the third capability of CVs is obviously different between RTS and Rework. One is anti-CV the other is anti-DD (for the most part but let’s not lose ourselves in details). So how do you rate this third playable component in the two models against each other? I left them out at first but made a comparison against each other afterwards as they are both the “third” squadron. However due to the different purpose the comparison isn’t exactly easy. Hence why step by step through the categories is the best approach here

Pure speculation and not necessarily the case at all. Although I am happy that all three of you commented on the numbers trying to twist the obvious so it fits your narrative a little better

What should that close? It closes bull - if the RTS carrier loses all strike planes he can still shut down the enemy CV entirely.

No - other way around: I compare TBs to TBs and DBs to DBs. And the numbers are pretty similar. Now there were playable fighters in the RTS model and now we have playable rocket planes for ground strikes. These numbers are also broadly similar - different purpose though. And what’s not really comparable is this stupid fighter cancel each other out consumable. That’s just new

Ja aber noch mehr als das. Wilhelm war davon ausgegangen, dass wenn er (= DE !) nur stark genug werden würden, England sie automatisch als gleichwertigen Partner akzeptieren würde. Und dann DE zusammen mit UK die Rolle Englands ausfüllen könnte. Bloß ist halt das Gegenteil eingetreten - je stärker DE wurde desto mehr andere Zweckbündnisse hat sich England gesucht. Das ging sogar soweit, dass sie lieber mit dem gemeinsamen Erzfeind FR und DE‘s altem Buddy RUS ins Bett gingen - und Willi eiskalt abtropfen ließen. Es gehört zu den Misskalkulationen der damaligen Deutschen Außenpolitik, dass man meinte mit Frankreich würde niemand Bündnisse eingehen - die Realität ist immer viel pragmatischer und unvorhersehbarer. Und, dass man Russland vor den Kopf stieß - aus billigem internen Protektionismus und dem Kalkül, dass das Bündnis mit England dann schon irgendwann kommt. Dass Willi auf euch nicht so gut zu sprechen ist, ist nicht ganz unverständlich

Ok - das Fett markierte kommt in „echt“ aus seinen letzten Jahren - da hat er so einiges an Bedrohungen (ich will nicht sagen Gespenster) gesehen - England eben als das liberale anti-christliche und damit satanische. In sofern ist das tatsächlich ein kleines bisschen aus dem Kontext gerissen. Was aber unbestreitbar ist: er hatte zeitlebens ein schwieriges Verhältnis zu England - sowohl privat als auch politisch. Man könnte die Beziehung als enttäuschte und gekränkte Liebe/Bewunderung charakterisieren. Die Verwandschaft auf der Insel hat ihn nie so ganz für voll genommen und als Emporkömmling abgekanzelt - nach dem Krieg auch öffentlich ziemlich in die Pfanne gehauen. Ich würde sagen er bewunderte England für das was es vor dem Großen Krieg war aber war sehr gekränkt, dass das nie erwiedert wurde. Wenn es dir zu scharf ist schieb es auf die Wiener Klatschpresse EDIT: ups - immer diese amerikanischen Schauspielerinnen

Wilhelm 2 ist zwar einiges gewöhnt was Verunglimpfung in den Medien angeht - manch einer mag sogar von gezielten Kampagnen gegen ihn sprechen - aber dass seine Familie, die Jahrhunderte über Preussen herrschte, nun in aller Welt durch den Schmutz gezogen wird ist für den Monarchen dann doch unerträglich. Besonders schlimm wiegt dabei, dass England - welches er im kleinen Kreise als Land des Satans bzw. Anti-Christentums bezeichnet - diese peinliche Geschichte genüsslich auskostet. Damit ist klar - die Angelegenheit duldet keinen weiteren Aufschub: noch vor Weihnachten 1928 wird der Kronprinz nach Berlin zur Aussprache zitiert. Laut bekannter Tratschquellen soll neben dem völlig ungebührlichen Verhalten des Kronprinzen in Bezug auf sein Liebesleben auch dessen Neigung zum rechten Untergrund Thema gewesen sein. Wie immer finden diese Dinge hinter verschlossenen Türen statt - aber nach dem Gespräch reist der Kronprinz direkt zurück in die USA. Tags drauf gibt der Palast bekannt, dass der Kronprinz von der Thronfolge ausgeschlossen wurde und es zu einem unüberbrückbaren Gegensatz mit dem Kaiser gekommen ist. Wilhelm II’s Enkel Wilhelm (Click) wird damit der nächste in der Thronfolge. Der erst 22-Jährige wird fortan nicht mehr von Wilhelm II‘s Seite weichen - schließlich hat er noch einiges zu lernen bevor er Wilhelm III. werden kann