1MajorKoenig

Ja, wobei wurde die nicht im Nachtkampf mit einem einzigen Schuss ausgeknockt als sie gegen die Kirishima gekämpft hat? Wobei - überlebt hat sie ja

Etwas OT: all diese Überlegungen zeigen aber am Ende recht deutlich, dass es mit den Schlachtschiffen nach Jutland eigentlich vorbei war. Letztlich kann man eine so große Maschine eben nicht in einer Weise schützen, als dass sie so umfänglich geschützt wäre, dass sie gegen die neuen Waffen größtenteils immun wäre. Die Verluste der Hood, der PoW, der Bismarck oder Scharnhorst zeigen doch, dass immer irgendwo etwas rausguckt, was dann eben trotzdem kaputtgeht und den Kampfwert auf 0 setzt oder die riesige Maschine sogar vernichtet. Für unser Planspiel ist das aber natürlich egal, so hat man in den 1920er und 30er Jahren halt nicht gedacht

Könnte genauso gut auf meinen Schlafmangel zurückzuführen sein - wahrscheinlich hast du es mal erwähnt. Wobei ich echt gespannt bin, was du aus den drei Chaos-Kätzchen machen willst - Ideen hätte ich einige Auch da bin ich echt gespannt - die Teile sind ja recht kurz. Aber im Kontext des Flottenvertrags könnten sie aber trotzdem recht stark werden Ich würde auch mal vermuten, dass da irgendwas gemacht wird. Kürzerer WK1, unübersichtliche Bündnis- und Bedrohungslage - da sollte eigentlich Geld locker zu machen sein.

Looks reasonable - I like the skill which gives main battery reload boost in brawling though. That one means though you would need to drop concealment Expert

There will be always be new “good” ships and also these will be removed once they have made enough money and so on and so on

Dockyard not for me. Don’t like the model and don’t want to participate.

None of the choices in the poll - excessive monetization by WG (eg Skill rework, T9 and T10 Premiums, exclusive focus on High tiers) - complete absence of base work and long Term focused development - complete neglecting of Dreadnought era and any real / existing ships - no signs of increasing games depth and width / only increasing amount of high tier premium ships, loot boxes and shipyard events - all of the above lead to a steady decline in overall quality and fun

Hello fellow sailors, To round up my Trilogy about the full German tech tree, let’s have a look at the destroyer line as I am certainly not suggesting a full paper-line of CVs for the German Navy. Historically there was a change in doctrine with regards to destroyers in the German Navy in parallel with technology advancing. In the early days of the German Navy when it evolved from a small pure coastal defense oriented group into the second strongest Navy in the world at the eve of WW1 it experimented with torpedoes and torpedo boats. Even though technology wasn’t ready for the “Jeune Ecole” yet the German Navy intended to use the small, inexpensive and relatively easy to produce boats to defend the German coast against an expected close blockade and raids and landing operations to the own coast. Therefore sea keeping and endurance were initially no priority and the torpedo was considered the offensive element for the boats, leaving the artillery for self-defense. This was somewhat different to the British and Japanese approach who quickly realized that bigger and stronger armed ships could not only act as torpedo boats but also as a defense against the same type of ship resulting in the Torpedoboatdestroyer type, or “Destroyer” in short which was larger and carried bigger guns. After the war Germany continued to produce smaller torpedo boats but also developed a larger true destroyer type of ship. As the German Navy never had to (nor was able to) defend huge shipping lanes with these ships the focus on them was not excessive. In World of Warships the German DD line has three different flavors to it – corresponding to how the type evolved in the different German Navies - ,starting with a focus on fast and small ships with a decent torpedo armament and relying on stealth to survive made up of ships from the Kaiserliche Marine and Weimar Republic’s Reichsmarine. The line then evolves into more destroyer (artillery) oriented ships with strong MA but resulting in bigger ships that are less likely to stay covert. Lastly there is a split in higher tiers representing two directions of development, the default continuation into what would eventually become the first destroyers of the West German Bundesmarine focusing on agile ships with lighter artillery and a split off into a heavier 15cm armed line representing the last design considerations of the Third Reich: T2: S-14 (Großes Torpedoboot 1911): Relatively small and squishy boats in an all-black camo scheme at 695t and no armor but decent stealth. Expect an impressive 34 kn top speed (higher than USN and IJN and slightly less than the Soviet DD) but very few hitpoints (comparable to the Russian DD) at a little more than 7.000 for this little boat. The main armament are 4 launchers for 50cm torpedos but there are also two low velocity 8.8cm L/30 guns for self-defense only. Historically there were different upgrades to these boats in terms of artillery including the much better 8.8cm L/45 and the bigger 10.5cm L/45 but for T2 in WOWS the original gun is sufficient as the boat is tasked to rely on its torpedos, speed and stealth. T3: V-25 (Großes Torpedoboot 1913): The TB1913 type was an improvement in every aspect over the earlier German torpedo boats being bigger and having better sea keeping capabilities. These black boats displaced around 975t at full load, still less than the Wickes at about 1.200t. Her health pool would therefore be most likely slightly less than 8.000 hp and her top speed is decent at 33,5kn. Her primary weapons are two twin and two single launchers for the same 50cm torpedos (6 tubes in total) and she carries three pieces of the much stronger 8.8cm L/45 compared to the T2 boat. T4: Wolf (Type 24): A post-WW1 torpedo boat design (still in the traditional black camo) displacing about 1.300t at full load (similar to the USN Clemson) so we can expect a similar health pool around 8.800 hp. She has a top speed of 35.5 knots (slightly more than Clemson) and is armed with six 50cm torpedo tubes (same amount as V-25) but three larger 10.5cm L/45 guns for self-defense. A torpedo upgrade for 533mm G7A torpedos would be available for this ship. T5: S-113 (Großes Torpedoboot 1916): The last of the “Black Hussars” in the German DD line. A much bigger and much more powerful design compared to the preceding smaller torpedo boats of the Kaiserliche Marine and almost a hybrid between the former torpedo boats and the following destroyers. Displacing around 2.415t at full load which is roughly double the size of the preceding “Wolf” which means a much improved health pool (expect 12.000 hp plus). The type’s top speed is 34.5 knots and is armed with only 2 double launchers but for more powerful 60cm torpedo compared to earlier models. On top her main artillery is pretty strong at four 15cm L/45 clearing the path to transition into the larger Kriegsmarine destroyers starting on Tier 6. T6: Z-1 (Zerstörer 1934): Larger at 2.200t standard displacement, compared to the roughly 2.000t of the USN Farragut, the line now becomes more artillery-centric but keeps good speed at 36 knots. HP wise we should be about 12.000 now with the caveat that the ship is a lot bigger and stealth is far more of a concern. Also the range of the German G7 torpedo of which Z-1 carries two quadruple launchers are hampered by relatively short range which makes a torpedo attack rather daring. However, the artillery is decent, featuring five 12.7cm pieces firing HE ammunition and some AA autocannons. The ship will for sure bring a big change in gameplay within the line. T7: Z-17 (Zerstörer 1936): An incremental improvement of the Z-1 the Z-17 shares a lot of features with the preceding class. A displacement of roughly 2.400t will result in a comfortable HP pool around 14.000 with a speed of 36 knots. In reality the ship featured a lot of improvements over the 1934 type but stats- and loadout wise they are rather similar. It still features five 12.7cm quick firing guns and two quadruple torpedo launchers for the G7A torpedo. We would see some improvements on soft stats though, such as RoF, turret traverse, similar to the step from “Königsberg” to “Nürnberg”. T8: Z-46 (Zerstörer 1936C): A projected improvement of the 1936 type as it became clear that air defense is not sufficient on the previous ships of which five ships were ordered but none completed. The main change to the preceding designs is the change in MA towards 12.8cm FLAK 40 dual purpose guns complemented by heavy 3.7cm and 2cm autocannons. This means that AA wise these ships will be a big step forward compared to the earlier German destroyers as long with a little better survivability. T9: Z-59 (Zerstörer 1945): Another projected destroyer type. The design featured improved steam turbines rather than Diesel-engines enabling the ship to reach 39.5 knots and heavily increased AA capabilities. The main armament consists of four twin FLAK40 dual purpose 12.8cm guns and two quadruple torpedo launchers of the known type, complemented by heavy AA (4 x 5.5cm L76.5 and 12 x 3cm autocannons) so the ship’s strength will be AA. HP wise we should be a decent increase (19.000) as the projected displacement was 3.700t. T10: Hamburg (Klasse 101): The top tier destroyer would be the “Hamburg” class. Slightly larger at about 4.000t (20.000HP?) this class features a top speed of 37 knots, four single auto-loading 10cm guns and excellent maneuverability. The AA is still strong at four advanced 4cm autocannons but ***EDITED*** the ship was build with fixed tubes which would make for a totally unique and intriguing experience. I could imagine a fixed forward cone for daring close quarter attacks. Apart from this feature, “Hamburg” will rely on agility coupled with very fast firing auto-loading cannons. Also she will fly the fourth German flag in the game already, the one of the then young Western German Republic… At T7 the path splits off into the 15cm armed heavier destroyers and goes up to T10 in parallel: T8: Z-23 (Zerstörer 1936 A “Narvik”): An improved version of the type 1936 destroyer with a little higher displacement resulting in an improved health pool of around 15.000. The ship’s main advantage is the heavier MA consisting of four single 15cm L/45 guns which will make the ship the heaviest armed destroyer so far. An upgrade to the main artillery would replace the single 15cm gun fore with a twin turret resulting in a total of five 15cm guns. Speed and torpedo arrangement would be similar to the preceding type. T9: Z (Zerstörer 1938A/Ac): A large ocean going destroyer project that never came to completion but can be seen as a step towards the “Spähkreuzer”. The ships’ displacement was close to 5.000t which would result in a very comfortable health pool of about 21.000 and the designed speed was 35.5 knots. The main armament would have consisted of three twin turrets for 15cm cannons complemented by heavy AA (8.8cm, 3.7cm, 2cm). The ship would have also featured ten torpedo launchers, five on each side. T10: Sp1 (Spähkreuzer): An even larger design of 5.700t and more armed with three twin turrets 15cm cannons, one fore and two aft. In WOWS the Sp1 would blurr the line between light cruisers and heavy destroyers but will make an excellent T10 ship relying heavily on her main artillery and a decent HP pool exceeding 22.000 and surpassing the “Khabarovsk” in this respect Please also see for the cruisers: http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/46845-proposal-revised-german-cruiser-line/page__fromsearch__1 And the Capital ships: http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/46929-proposal-full-german-capital-ships-line-bbbc/page__p__915118#entry915118

Ich bin auch gespannt für welchen Zeitraum die RN neue Schiffe angedacht hat. Aber eben auch was sie mit den BCs machen

The world has come a long way since :-) At the time 22k looked awesome - today the 30k are probably needed

Das würde ich auch so vermuten! Allein mit der Geschwindigkeit sind die sehr nützlich! Allerdings haben diese Drei eben auch die größten Schwächen - daher interessiert mich ob die komplett modernisiert werden oder ob die in ihrem Zustand vor sich hinvegetieren. Mein Bauch sagt mir aber, dass in der Lage, in der sich GB 1929 befindet, ein gewisses Interesse an einer einsatzbereiten Flotte bestehen sollte. Ein isolationistisch ausgerichtetes Amerika, ein sich relativ dynamisch entwickelndes Sowjet-Russland und dann auch noch dieser Kontinentale Block. Ein Bedarf an einer Streitmacht, die die Versorgung und die Integrität des Commonwealth garantieren kann sollte durchaus gegeben sein

Das ist völlig klar Da bin ich aber trotzdem sehr gespannt

Epicentre shows the problem of game modes though. Any variation is either a unacceptable reduction in the game itself, eg. just one class or such, or simply not fitting with the rest of the game such as bastion. Now with thunderstorms WG tried to bring some variety to the otherwise very repetitive game - I don’t mind them. Night battles with some additional mechanics such as star shells and flashlights could be done in the same “area of variation”. But to make some good objective based game modes the game is lacking almost everything needed to do that. So honestly I am not very optimistic on this topic at all

Und was macht ihr 1932 mit der? Du machst es aber auch spannend Und wie geht es den Cats?

Das habe ich nicht gesagt. Es geht auch nicht darum, dass es die freie Entscheidung von jedem einzelnen ist - das ist sowieso klar. Mir gefällt an dem Modell aber eben nicht, dass gleich mehrere Tricks hintereinandergeschaltet sind, um den Ertrag künstlich zu pushen. Aber das ist meine persönliche Meinung

That may be a serious problem - agree. And that is why I am a bit sceptical if more varied game modes would even work at all in this game. In this game and it’s playerbase. I think game modes like only one class wouldn’t be fun at all. And they would likely change the complete dynamics and what would stats be worth after all? And honestly I would not want to play these and would either ask for a way to deactivate them or would be annoyed like hell of they would show up regularly. What I would like to see to get some though would be for example night battles with some immersive lighting, star shells as a new mechanic and lots of huge flash lights following your cursor. Something that feels like some true naval action. I also loved the island capture mode in Battlestations Pacific but I have serious doubts of that would be work within this game. I think it is too limited unfortunately for such modes. I think convoy modes, flagships modes and such are a possibility but may likewise suffer from the same issues as any other mode. Remember the Bastion mode? While the general idea may sound funny the implementation was awful and it didn’t work out at all

The answer is yes and no. Is it possible to get much more variation in randoms to avoid the highly repetitive gameplay? -> YES Are your solutions ideas the correct ones? -> NO - I wouldn’t want to play any of these The Problem here is: if variety means to make things worse it is a bad idea and they should abandon it. If WG would increase variety the only way would be to go for more objective based game modes in my opinion

Well I took the skills extending range by 20%, the accuracy bonus of 35% (although the Ships below T7 don’t get the accuracy bonus for ships backed in) and the skill which reduced the main battery reload if you have enemies in your secondary range. And for the T6 and T7s the Module for the ship. And in Scharnhorst’s case even IFHE as it is the Pommern captain Problem with that is that it needs at least 14 points only for that pretty much without Fire Prevention or the improved Heal. I am pretty sure it is not an ideal build but for these tiers it doesn’t matter really much to be honest

Ich meinte das Storm Eagles Produkt Ist aber ähnlich alt Es hatte aber eben ausreichende Mechaniken und eine dynamische Kampagne in der Nordsee - das hat immer tierisch Spaß gemacht. Und die Gefechte fühlten sich einfach „natürlich“ an - nicht so „gamey“

@Horatio_Hornblaeser Ich spiele ebenfalls Ultimate Admiral: Dreadnoughts und ein paar alte WOWS Haudegen sind ebenfalls da. Das Spiel ist noch in Alpha und das Team ist klein aber das Konzept ist an sich phantastisch. Ich hoffe, dass das Team das durchhält, die haben sich da schon eine ganze Menge vorgenommen: Schiffe selbst designen und nachher in die Schlacht bringen. Derzeit arbeiten sie an der Kampagne. Aber Unterstützung braucht das Projekt immer Ansonsten: „Jutland“ - immer noch das beste Spiel aus meiner Sicht

Man könnte es sogar noch klarer formulieren - das Ziel ist es, die Leute anzufixen mit ein paar einfachen Phasen und leichtem Fortschritt und dann möglichst viele Phasen nach hinten raus über Dublonen zu verkaufen. Die Werft ist Monetarisierung in reinster Form und hochgradig erfolgreich und einträglich. Also nein, @EnergiZeGG , alles erspielen kannst du nicht und so ist es auch nicht gedacht. Es soll dir lediglich glauben machen du hättest schon so viel vom Weg geschafft - da musst du unbedingt den Rest auch noch kaufen. Dass das am Ende in überhaupt keinem Verhältnis mehr steht (Preis für das was du bekommst) wird durch diesen Mechanismus ziemlich gut kaschiert. Ich verstehe warum WG das macht aber ich mag diesen Mechanismus überhaupt nicht und finde auch, dass die Kunden hier ziemlich am Nasenring durch die Arena geführt werden sollen

Wie sieht es eigentlich bei euch im Januar 1929 aus, @linkum und @x_scheer109_x ? Sind da mal ein paar BCs in der Modernisierung oder sind die immer noch Stand 1918?

Good question - I still experiment... I did make a Secondary build for - Pommern & Scharnhorst (same captain) - Bayern - PEF - Konig ALBERT The latter three are obviously pure fun Builds - but fun is half of it no? For Pommern the build feels pretty toothless - the damage output feels underwhelming but I haven’t done any documentation of the actual results. Gut feeling - still possible but pretty much not an optimal choice

Hab sie nach dem Skill Rewürg mal mit einem Meme-Secondaries Build ausgestattet. Ein ziemlich fragwürdiger aber irgendwie auch ganz lustiger build

Probably the first time we agree on something being really wrong