OVanBruce

She recently got 12 km japanese torpedoes efectively making her one of strongest and most versatile ship in the game. What else would you need?

I'll just repost this here since this is the very same problem I gave my opinion about in another thread

Not possibly, they WILL do it via doublons and there won't be anything you can do since per ToS you don't own the ship, you are being lent the ship in the condition WG decides her to be. So forget about ever recovering the money. And let's not talk about the time, effort and love put into your carriers and your carrier skills.

I'm guessing some brits count some pirate ships killing, smuggling, looting, raping and destroying cities in the caribean and pacific as a navy and start counting from there.

Yet they aren't at the King of the Seas tournament, where the true top clans of each server battle to decide which is the best WoWs team. Truth is, the real skilled players don't fear carriers and they feel it's an integral part of high level play. Meanwhile WG doesn't want to discourage people from playing their prized competitive mode in which they want the biggest number of people to participate. And what rustle the jimmies of the potato legions the most in WoWs? That's right, carriers. So, they ban carriers to make people enter more easily in Clan battles. The potatoes hate carriers so much that they ask for the class to be removed from everywhere it is possible, would you believe that?

I don't want to play RTS, I want to play the current iteration of CV gameplay even with all its buggyness and halve assedness. And wrong, they didn't increase the AA rating of all ships across the board because the CVs were "out of context". It was because the devs were so stubbornly stupid to recognize that CVs needed mirror MM. Even after the increase of AA the problem persisted and they finally gave in and implemented the mirror. Yet, even throughout those times and up to nowadays they haven't made a single effort on educating the playerbase on how CVs work and how to counter them.

You've got 3 other dumbed down classes to oblivion to play? Why should you care about a class you can't play because you don't like its gameplay? Or are you that entitled to believe that each and every class in the game must cater to your tastes even against the wishes of those who have been playing and keeping alive the class for 3 years?

I dunno man, maybe the fact that the devs will destroy a whole class while ousting its playerbase despite having put all their effort, passion, work, time, money and love into it doesn't sound to like something bad to you. It's not like the devs have received countless feedback on how to make the current system work but have decided to ignore it during the last 3 years for finally creating something that most if not all CV mains despise.

The potato CV player vs unicum CV problem comes mainly from WGs inability to iron out the bunch of unintuitive and straight misterious parts of CV gameplay for players. It is coupled with the current CV UI which gives practically no information to the player so he can do informed decisions without having to bang their head multiple times until he understands what works and why it works, furthermore, it's extremely buggy. The cherry on top of the cake is WG's lazyness at creating a proper progression coupled with tutorials in order to give players the knowledge to play the class properly. Given how exp and such work in WoWs a potato can climb, albeit slowly or straight buy a tier X CV with frer exp. The devs seems to have never had faith on the RTS concept with carriers. Time and time again for the last 3 years the changes done to carriers and anything afecting them have been poorly thought and hastily developed botched jobs and this trend have been getting steadily worse over the years. There have been CV mains, both inside and outside supertest, which have proposed innovative solutions and ideas on how to make the RTS concept work but in my conversations with them I've come to know that the WG's dev team arrogance have been a major obstacle on a serious work on the CV model. It's fitting that some of the best CV players of the Alpha and CBT became supertesters and most of them eventually resigned and stoped playing the game completely. The Potato vs Unicum is not an unavoidable problem. It's a consequence of WGs ineptitude at handling their own idea and their lazyness and arrogance at developing that idea to its full potential.

If I take citadels is because I was either outplayed or I made a mistake, it's as simple as that. 3 years later WG is actually making the effort of educating WoWs playerbase about the game mechanics when Alphas asked for the "How it works" series since the very first day of the OBT. Besides, it's not a matter of being fun or not, it's a matter of rewarding player skill in a competitive environment. On the contrary, WG has been constantly pushing toward forgiving player's lack of desire for improvement. The exception of that rule is of course, carriers, where small mistakes can be severily punished and where skill and not luck is the most decisive factor. You can argue that DDs are entering the exception too with so many countermeasures aimed against their main strenght, stealth. PD: And I dunno what you mean with "what's gonna come for me". You didn't see the baBBy rage threads of the early days, I presume.

Overbuff CVs? After a whole 3 years of baBBy raging have brought the class to the ground with only a handful of good players around and most good players from the Alpha and CBT leaving in desperation at WGs stupidity on how they managed carriers? No way man. I'd be surprised if CVs remain as competitive and decisive as they are today. If anything I believe they are going to load them with as much ginmicks and consumables as they are doing with cruisers while remaining discreetly competitive but no way they are letting carriers retain their decisive high alpha strike because that's "unfun".

Anyway, ideally we should get an extended test on the new CV and AA systems, something like a 3 week beta test in order to let both CV and non CV players test and give their opinions on how they feel about them. But I've got little faith on WG's honesty and desire to have the old CV players have their voices heard. They've only talked so far with the CC about the subject, they haven't even made a survey on player's opinions about CVs. I expect a heavy handed and quick change of the system that won't give time for the comunity to organize an put forward their opinion about thr CV rework and weather the big and probably quick storm that will follow. Since CV players are a very small portion of the playerbase, it won't be a big problem if they alienate then. WG has a very bad reputation among CV players and CV testers of not listening to the ones playing and enjoying the class while smugly replying that they know better about their product than anyone; interesting remark when no one on the dev team is known to be a hardcore fan of the CV gameplay we have now. The big question will be: Once they alienate the few CV mains remaining, what will WG do if the new CV system is a total failure and no one, old and new, play carrier anymore?

Really? Because what people told me about her reaction is totally the oposite. It happened once when maybe she was caught offguard. She was streaming just after returning from Leningrad and someone asked her about the CV rework alpha she saw. Her body language, her face's reaction and the deep silence she made before (probably) collecting her thoughts and giving a neutral opinion and account of the subject was, to say the least, not encouraging. She clearly showed almost disgust when remembering what she saw. PS: Another comment on it was made by Jingles on stream in which he made the rather revealing remark that "if it is this easy I might play CVs in live". Not a good sign when someone like Jingles classify the gameplay of the CV rework as easy.

So today I watched Flamuu's latest video about these new WiP upgrades. I already know that they are being tested but nevertheless I was baffled at how such an obvious thing would fly over the heads of WG devs I know that no one of them play main CVs but whatever. Some of you may argue that I'm jumping into the wagon too early and that they'll sort this out but remember, this is WG we are talking about. Their inability to balance the game sometime astonishes me and probably most of you have been too with some of the decisions that have been done throughout the history of the game. First, for those who don't know, these legendary upgrades are exclusive and unique to each tier X ship. Here are the CV upgrades. - Hakuryuu. Enhanced Flight Control. 15% Extra health for your fighters 5% Extra speed to all of your aircraft This upgrade is placed on the last one, which is the one in which you can alternatively get the +15% attack aircraft health. - Midway. Reinforced Armor Protection for Attack Air Groups. 30% Extra health for your attack aircraft (torpedo bombers and dive bombers) -5% Speed to all your aircraft This upgrade is placed on the last one, which is the one in which you can alternatively get the +15% attack aircraft health. Now the problem should be pretty obvious for anyone who mains CVs. Hakuryuu is getting an straight improvement while Midway is having to exchange a pretty significant stat, the speed of its planes, for a bit more extra health. But let's try crunching the numbers a bit so it becomes more graphical. Aircraft Speed now Hakuryuu Midway Fighters 180 knots 178 knots Torpedo Bombers 164 knots 136 knots Dive Bombers 161 knots 156 knots Now let's apply the difference if both CVs took their respective legendary upgrade Aircraft Speed with both upgrades Hakuryuu Midway Fighters 189 knots 169 knots Torpedo Bombers 172 knots 129 knots Dive Bombers 169 knots 148 knots As you can see it becomes pointless to use this upgrade on the Midway when the Hakuryuu slots the upgrade. Not only do Midway Fighters become much more vulnerable to strafing and losing air control by Hakuryuu's 3*5 fighter squadron in the air but also they become unable to catch fully loaded Hakuryuu strike planes. A Hakuryuu can decide any kind of engagement as it wants. Things stay a bit less one sided when Midway decides to not slot the upgrade but it's still heavily on favor of Hakuryuu's side Aircraft speed with only Hakuryuu upgrade Hakuryuu Midway Fighters 189 knots 178 knots Torpedo Bombers 172 knots 136 knots Dive Bombers 169 knots 156 knots Now let's take a look at the health values of the planes. These values have been modified with the mandatory upgrades that a carrier player almost allways take (yay for variety). They are: Air Groups Modification 2 (+20% to fighter HP, +50% to fighter ammunition) and Air Groups Modification 3 ( +15% to attack aircraft survivability). They also have been modified with the captain skill Aircraft Servicing Expert ( +5% to HP of carrier-based aircraft. -10% to servicing time of carrier-based aircraft) Aircraft health now Hakuryuu Midway Fighters 2537 hp 2387 hp Torpedo Bombers 2532 hp 2052 hp Dive Bombers 2436 hp 2484 hp Now let's compare how they'd look with the new upgrades applied to both carriers. Take into account that in both cases the respective upgrade replaces Air Groups Modification 3 ( +15% to attack aircraft survivability). Aircraft Health with both upgrades Hakuryuu Midway Fighters 2842 hp 2387 hp Torpedo Bombers 2215 hp 2308 hp Dive Bombers 2131 hp 2794 hp Now, some of you may argue that it is a fair trade to lose 300 hp on both torpedo and dive bombers in exchange for the increased speed but at carrier gameplay the health of the bombers doesn't really matter outside their exposure to AA barrage. You can see it right now when a Midway can drop their fragile tier VIII torpedo bombers on BBs and other enemy ships if you know when to. This is further compounded by the loss of AA mounts all ships suffer from HE shells. And even so, in this field Hakuryuu's planes will come on top thanks to their superior speed which will enable them to capitalize enemies out of position much more quickly and eficiently than Midway. There are other factors to consider like aircraft travel time and aircraft servicing time. Which brings me back to my original question: Is there any point on sloting this upgrade on Midway? Is there any point on playing Midway once Hakuryuu receives this upgrade? Is there any point in playing Midway over Hakuryuu right now?

I know how infamous she was but now, with all the new torpedo stuff going on are there any plans for her to be added? 20km Deeper water torps on the Asashio please and she's golden.

Let it go, you aren't making then yield on this. You already delivered the message, it's up to then to take it or ignore it.

Stealth firing is gone. Now you allways bloom up to your maximum range. Smokefiring now creates a bloom that makes impossible for battleships to do it, almost impossible for heavy cruisers, workable for light cruisers and barely a problem for DDs. Radar was introduced, ships have a consumable that lets the spot anything up a certain radius for some time. Works over smoke, works over islands, works over anything. You'll have to learn which ships have radar, their duration and their radius as it widely varies. AA is much atronger as it was before. Focus of the heavy AA damage passes from medium range guns to long range guns which makes the job of a CV much more difficult. All kinds of ships have AA barrage now, even CVs thenselves (to prevent CV sniping). You'll have to look up which ships have AA barrage besides cruisers. HE spam was heavily nerfed. HE shells now shatter if the thickness of the armor where the shell lands is greater than calliber_of_the_shell/6 your chances of making a fire remain the same. Take a good look at the captain skills because they have been totally revamped and there are new ones. Situational Awareness is now available automatically to everyone. There are plenty of other small changes here and there but game wide I think these have been the most significant.

WG has done nothing to teach players about how CVs work, the gameplay at first glance is boring and uninteresting, and people usually give up after they have their planes repeatedly wiped out by AA (because no one taught then about AA barrage and which ships to avoid) or an enemy CV (nobody taught then about strafing, fighter positioning or fighter duels). It's all just a gigantic mess of missinformation and lazyness from WG. The thought of WG dumbing down to oblivion CV gameplay with their "carrier rework" instead of adressing their [edited]up makes me shiver...

Meh, I sucked big time when I started playing CV, did it late (4 months after the start of OBT) and my first choice was USN out of spite toward the bunch of CV sealclubbers that were rampant back then. I'm now an unicum CV player despite playing solo most times. The key is simply knowing all the stuff that WG refuses to make evident about AA and having patience to learn from your mistakes while identifying why they happened.

Honestly, the best you can do is post here your replays so we can point out what you may be doing wrong when playing Essex. After you do that we can start giving you some meaningful tips about how to play carriers at high tiers. Go play some Essex matches, give your best shot and post here the ones you found problematic.

There is something that is called "latent problem". Something that never actually posed a problem until the circunstances of the game changed in such a way that said phenomena, which was minimal or devoid of inconvenience suddenly poises itself as a general problem. As you can see, I'm an Alpha player, I've been through most of the iterations this game have had and one of the most famous "latent problem" we've had was the state of carriers when the game finally entered OBT. We Alpha and Close Beta players could cope with the fact that carriers were as strong as they were back then because we had a higher standard of play bettwen ourselves. Once the game went live there were continous adjustments to CVs and their interactions bettwen thenselves and the surface ships. And that was supposedly a non issue to all Alpha and Close Beta players yet even nowadays the problem continues. I see you've liked and saw noo problem with some of those changes, to the point that you directly downplay the effects of some of then as marginal. Yet I'm still here waiting for an answer to my question. What makes a change to BB AP to ensure it only gives overpens something less deserving to be changed?

You still hadn't answered my question. What makes the situation with DDs any less deserving to be looked at than the others. About wether those changes improved the game? It's a matter of opinion, but I'm pretty sure you agreed with at least some of those changes.

That certainly depends on who you ask to. We've gotten plenty of "non issues" on this game that have been changed despite plenty of players crying about it: HE shells penetration, BB citadels over the water, individual AA being insuficient to stop a CV strike, stealth firing, smoke firing,etc. All of these were changed to arguably improve the game. Plenty of people find random BB AP pens on DDs to be a problem, including WG. What makes this problem diferent than the others?

What's the problem then with WG hardcoding BB AP to allways overpen DDs? I happen to play BBs alongside all other classes and an smart BB captain knows exactly how and when to shoot at a DD in order to get at least one penetration so I'd argue that it is not 90% of the time.

Just because it has allways been like this it doesn't mean that the game cannot be changed for better so a ship class that should supposedly be good against BBs doesn't have yet another reason to not get close to a BB for a torp run. They'll probably hard code BB AP to allways overpen DDs just like they are doing with the deep water torps but I suspect they are dragging their feet about this.