Pikkozoikum

"not that difficult". That's what you can say to everything... I wasn't pushing, I'm reversing at the beginning. I'm in a defensive position, not in an aggressive. But one hydro of the enemy submarine (which pushed aggressively) highlighted me. And than an aggressive DD moved toward me and killed me. Has nothing to do with awareness, because I can't react with 15 knots to that. Everything would be fine, if enemy subs wouldn't counter submarines so hard

But they don't home on close range, I think? ^^

Well, I said it earlier, the speed is "slow". Is a BB chasing another BB with 15 knots? Is the BB losing his "resoruce"? Imagine a DD chases another DD and locks his speed at 15 knots, but also drains his smoke. The comparison "plenty of ships have to deal with that" doesn't work, that are completly different dimensions and also different mechanics (dive capacity) Submarine moves with 15 knots - Enemy submarines follows with 15 knots Submarines lose dive capacity and also they can get dropped by ASW Surface ships moves with 30-40 knots - enemy surface ship can follow with 30-40 knots Surface ship can get shot by enemies, but has speed and more hp/armor etc It's just completly different When I get spotted in any surface ship, I'm mostly able to turn around and move away. A submarine will be perma spotted by the enemy submarine and with slow speed there is no real escape, also there is no "angleing" because there are only bombs and torpedos I would prefer, if submarines don't interfer each other too much. Eh no. A bb needs way less awareness, than a DD. Because the BB sits behind and just have to wait for the spot... but who has to spot and go for the risk? The DD has nobody, who spots the enemy for him. He is the ship in the fronline and goes the risk. Same with submarines. You can have awareness like a robot, that doesn't matter, if the enemy submarine never gets spotted until it runs into your proximity range. How do you pay attention on something, that you can't see, until it's too late? ^^ Just take the example of Shimakaze torpedos 20km, and YY deep water torpedos. The awareness makes a huge difference. If you have very good awareness, doesn't matter, if the YY have that stealth level and almost instantly hit. Shima torpedos don't need that much awareness and you still can dodge them. I disagree, that submarines are a griefing class by default. No class or ship is that. It depends more, what you are doing. And if one submarine chases another and both are just depleting pointlessly their DivCap, that feels like griefing. A DD is also not a griefing ship by default, but you can group in a Division and sit around the enemy CV without killing him, just destroying his planes and keep him has hostage. That is also a griefing action. I also meant, that is a "griefing like feeling", not that it is actual griefing. It just feels like. As I said, I think submarines shouldn't counter each other like that. Other ships should counter submarine or at least fight them somewhat effective

The big difference is, that the submarines are way slower. A DD can smoke and turn away with 40 knots. A submarine will be perma spotted from another submarine and has to move with 15 knots, in case he escapes somehow, there is still the hydro. That's the huge difference. It's like you would give BBs now a fire range from 12 km on high tier, and when they get too close (to make their guns useful) you say "but that's situational awareness is for" That doesn't work. Situational awareness works with ships on long distances or with a lot speed. But short range + low speed makes it kinda impossible to react to some situations. I overall like the submarines, but the submarine vs submarine interaction feels like griefing, where another submarine is just sitting around with you. If teammates are around, fine, but with 10-12km torpedo range (even less because of curvature etc), there are not alway team mates around. I just don't like it Cruisers can shoot over islands, have gimmicks like radar and way more range, but also more speed. My rating of influence is 1. CV / DD 2. Cruiser 3. BB 4. SS of course a BB can totally carry a game and have a lot influnece on that game. Same will go for submarines. But the general potential is higher on other ship types, imo

I currently try to figure out, how the torpedos do their dmg. Normally a torpedo does 100% damage and gets only reduced by Torpedobelt or damage saturation. But submarine torpedos do the 100% only to citadells when double pinged. Otherwise they do less damage. Edit: I'm totally clueless 10k damage bow in on Emerald. 2x6500 is Torpedo dmg. So it could be full damage with saturation. But how is the damage calculated with double ping against citadell? I did ~7400 damage on a citadell hit and normal hit on Amagi. (I think it was both hits and not a single hit, but hard to say, can't watch the replay) @YabbaCoe on the long run, we could need an detailed explanation, when the torpedo does what amount of damage (Citadell 100% or even more damage?) and in what way it differs from normal torpedos (normal torpedos do always "citadell damage" (100% damage), which just gets reduced by protection)

I would actually do that the other way around, because the ping mechanic has the disdavantage to be seen on short range (though only 4km currently.) But also it alerts the enemy. I think the hard hitting should be on short range, but they should be slow. So a submarine has not just to be in the right position and very close, but also the torps must reach the target Though your idea works of course, as well ^^

Or both are just perma spotting each other and a BB drops ASW on the SSs head. As I said, it feels like a DD runs into a DD with 15 knots and not allowed to move faster, which makes it quite easy to kill Did that a few times, I'm actually happy about the 4km ping change, which already helps the Periscope depth and the faster sonar ping. Now you can actually use the periscope depth for attacks with faster speed than operating depth. Operating depth is more defensive of course the meta will change, but the battle influence will be still lower than other ships. They are slow with low range and have so many factors to think about

I mean, when another submarine is perma spotting, there is no escape^^ Not sure, if I would really change much. I would like to see some kind of "AP" torpedos, I mean hard hitting, non-acousting, slow torpedos as a second armament, like other ships have HE and AP. But I wouldn't really change anything about the flexiblitiy, because some ships have to be the worst and in terms of flexibility, I think the submarines will be the worst. It s just that is my prediction, that the submarines will be the lowest in case of influence, unless the enemy plays into the hands of the submarine.

Slow in terms of this game. their surface speed matches with the BBs, and below it's around the half speed. For this game, that is slow. Or do you say that ships like GK are fast ships in this game? ;) Yes, their might be specific roles, but aside that, I was going with the persepctive of flexibility, which is important in such games. More flexibile classes often have more influence and right now it seems, that submarines will have low flexibility and thus low influence. What if a submarine goes to the wrong side? It has not the fire range, and not the speed to reach anyone. I'm not complaining, just analyzing

I know, that's why Ithink, the issue is kinda tolerateable. But still, if a BB overextends, it's often tanky enough to escape. If a DD overextends, he often can smoke and run away. A submarine has no speed nor tankyness ^^ That's also anotehr issue. Submarine combines 2 disadvantes from BBs and DDs. Slow like a BB with range like a DD. That makes the submarine probably very inflexible and with only a little influence on the game compared to other classes. CVs and DDs are often so influencial, because they are flexible and fast. The BB can kinda compensate it, because of the range. I mean, I'm totally fine with that, I like that submarines are slow and restricted, but it's hard for the gameplay and teamplay ^^

Well, I was quite agressive, while the german can stop the drain, I got depleted, but running away was not possible, I was perma spotted and got dropped by BBs and DDs^^ I mean, you could say, it's my own fault, but there is no chance to run away. I think the proximity detection should go, there is already hydro for every submarine

Well, not boring, it's frustrating. And well, the thing is, submarines can't "run" back to the team. I mean the submarines as to play a bit defensive to avoid that, because there could be always another submarine. Technically that fits well into the game, but once it happens, it's really annoying. It feels like playing DD, and another DD spots, or lets they, they run into each others, and because of that fact, their speed gets reduced to 15 knots, so running away is not possible^^

The only thing, I really hate is SS vs SS combat. If one submarine wants to [edited]your day, it just follows you, Espcially when playing US vs german. It just drains the DiveC

The sonar ping speed and detection change to 4km is also pretty nice, because that makes Periscope Depth more useful

Hmm, that makes just not much sense, what they said. Also I see no connection between "within the norm in terms of combat effectiveness" and "leaders in terms of the number of battles played" Technically I would say, that Zao is a well balanced ship, though too many other ships are too strong :o)

fun fact, the pinging mechanic makes from the "theory" torpedos bad. Normal torpedos always have full damage and only get reduced by Torpedo protection or saturated compartments Submarine torpedos do reduced damage and get only their full damage (citdall), when double pinging ^^ To the topic, I think Zao should get one of the best dpm, because IJN ships should be glass cannons. Zao hasn ot much to offer. And that she has 12km torpedos give her just very unreliable dmg

you can deinstall the TST server, as far as I know, the TST Server always needs to be reinstalled and can't be updated from old tests to new tests. (But maybe they changed that, not sure) Though it takes space anyways and TSTs are not that often^^

No, the PTS like the last round as well ;P " For all submarines, detectability range after emitting a sonar ping now increases to a flat 4 km, rather than the detectability value of the submarine on the surface " Thats a nice change, maybe the periscope depth is now a bit more useful

Starts: Thu. 29 Jul. 18:30 CEST (UTC+2) / your local time: Thu. 29 Jul. 18:30

It has actually less to do with the player and more with the match and coniditions. The CV is top tier, which is good for "carrying", but also if you look at the own team exp, which is mostly lower than the enemies team exp (if win-bonus removed). If the own team does less, then there is more potential, that someone can do "more". A very important point for Base exp (aside own decision making and rng) is, if the potential in this match is given. In a stomp, there is never that potential Not saying, that he did bad, he obviously did good, but it's very often depending on the others, if they show broadside to a bb or not, stuff like that ^^

ugh, necro post (edit)

The next round might start soon!

I would actually expect, that it's easier on Shokaku than on some other CVs

well, it didn't run the whole last weak, started at thursday evening. You started the PTS and not the TST?

Test 1 is over, you need to wait for test 2 ;) Ends: Mon. Jul. 26 10:30 PM PT / your local time: Tue. Jul. 27 7:30 AM