Pikkozoikum

Or maybe there are multiple reasons and not just one? ;D

It can be argued, because you probably have Minotaurs AA in mind. I'm an IJN player, and most ships have extremly weak AA. Many ships felt like Asashio AA is now. And then some Unicum CVs back then even told me, that you even can play around these AA-heavy ships and still kill them. But mostly I would agree, if you say, the super-heavy-AA ships were stronger and more consistent, than the strong AA ships now. But the weaker AA ships were weaker back then.

and italian cruiser bot rammed me and stuck on my front rudder thing. I got 32 knots lol But the speeds are 26.5 (surface) and 30.8 Don't know, can you get +7 by perks?

Just wait for the russian Sumbarines I remember the old testversion with the russian boats. Cachalot got speed boost. Russian boat was as fast as Cachalot with speedboost active xD

Wait, it's not really 37 knots underwater, you are joking?

Why though is that a reason? Actually that is why they are actually weaker than non-homing. The difference would be: With homing the ship pings, and gets spotted at 4km Without homing the ship will be hidden at ~2.5km With homing it does only higher damage, when hitting the citadell Without homing there must be a comenpsation for the not having these torpedos, thus the torpedos will do overall more dmg, otherwise they would be hard nerfed in damage With homing torpedos, homing doesn't work at close range Without homing, there is no homing at close range anways, so the close range scenario would be even worse for the BB. The non-homing torpedo would make that marked scenario way more worse ^^ Homing torpeods increase the skill gap. Bad players will get rekt, good players will play smart against it.

Could ask you the same about this: You are explaining tactics. We are talking about consumables and armament against specific ship types. If you go with tactics, guess what, those ships without the ASW can also do specific tactics against Submarines, same as they can do against DDs... xD Someone else can also spot a submarine and deplete it's divCap, so it can be shot. But we are not talking about such kind of tactics, I think Nobody claimed that If a ship has no ASW, it can spot submerged SS. They are not very fast. Also if they go down to maxium depth, then they got pushed into a bad situation They will deplete, and then they can get shot. Or just go for the caps. Though I don't see a point of this comparison. Some ships have specific mechanics, others don't And if there are no ships, that can get a DD, then the DD hits the magic button 'W', and he will be never seen again. That was my point. some have no coutner-consumables/weapons against DDs, they rely on the help of others. Do that... this is quite inefficient and ineffective. Without the pinging, the torpdeos do way less dmg, but also get reduced by torpedo belt. Of course it does dmg, but not very much. But what also happens: Dive cap gets depleted faster, the BB sees the Submarine at operating depth and will see it surfacing, so it can turn towards the side of the submairne. Secondaries will also cause dmg as soon it is at 10m depth. Not saying, that this can't work, but mostly I would say, it's a very bad move. It always depends on the situation But also your example is in favor of the submarine, that the BB turns the guns away... What if a BB turns the guns away and a DD approaches the BB? The DD might one shot the BB. Depends on what you mean with close range. As far as I know they lose homing at 1km. It also needs pinging, which means, 4km concealment -> depleting DivCap But I also see not, how that is a reason to give everyone counter-consumables/armament against submarines. It just what submarines are supposed to do, torping enemies.Especially if the enemies are not coutners to the submarine. That's a point, what people often don't understand. If something is in theory "only" difficult, but in practice so unlikely, that it can be done, then it's actually "impossible" Is it possible to hit a DD, that is invisble since 10 minutes? Yes. Is it likely? No. I mean, it's possible, that you win 3 times the jackpot of 1 Mil money. But it's so unlikely, that I call it impossible. While it's impossible to hit a submarine at depth with guns, it's also so unlikely to hit a completly hidden DD with guns without any intel, that I would call it impossible in a relevant way. It's same like against DDs. A ship without counter-consumables and armament can only harm a DD, when the DD is exposed. Otherwise you can't So you have to wait for the exposude of the DD and of the SS. In case of an SS it's depleting the DivCap. Or just cap. That's mostly what I would do against SSs and DDs

What is RDF? The Hydro can be used as submarine at maxium depth to see something. On maximum depth a submarine is blind

Yes, though I'm not 100% sure, how that works. I think it only highlights for a few seconds and not perma spots, though not 100%, maybe it also perma spots, when a submerged submarine hydros a submerged submarine. It's quite complicated, because sub-mechanics change depending on depth

Yes, but why would you expect then, that this changes? When all ships have ASW, nothing changes. Giving some ships ASW makes them maybe more valuable than before

So it's normal to hae ships, that are weaker and less used? ;P

Zao is meh, but still be played. I would see it like that: Submarines are like DDs. Have all ships DD counters? They don't have. But they still get played. It's a team game and you play as a team against them. Some ships will be able to fight the DDs. Most BBs completly rely on the team to fight the DDs. Also even before SS, will already have ships, that doesn't "bring something to the table". But with ASW might increase the pool of potential ships. But even if not, it's still the same case, we will have before the SS ships, that bring nothing to the table, and we will have after the release ships, that bring nothing to the table. I highly doubt, that just because some ships can't hard-counter one single ship type (SS), that all ships with ASW become pointless. What about to counter DDs? What about contering BBs, CAs, Battlecruisers, CVs etc? In Clan Battles you will form a team that covers all the specific tasks, you won't need a ship, that fullfill all tasks. I actually think, that in Clan battles we will still see a lot no-ASW cruisers, because the ASW of a cruiser becomes only in late game relevant, only then a cruiser can engage a SS, otherwise a cruiser will be easily focused down. But then, if it's late game anyways, then you can also just deplete the divCap of the submarine and wait for the surfacing. I think, there are issues seen, that doesn't exists ,)

I don't think, that every ship should get ASW. That's similar to give every ship anti DD stuff. Like all BBs get Radar, or Hydro. The more ships have ASW, the more pressure is on that class. If every class gets counter-weapons and consumables, then we need a balancing. For example every ASW will be weaker. Or the subs get buffed to avoide these. Like instead of having 12km 30s radar, or long lasting 10km radar, all ships would get now 9km 15s radars. This game is not a 1vs1, so the team-aspect has to be considered. Not every ship needs counters against everything or we need to rework the whole game. That not true. ASW is not must-have. BBs have mostly no counter against DDs, but germans have Hydro. Do you only see german bbs and none other bbs? Some cruisers have radar against DDs, some have no radar. Do you only see radar cruiser? And as I mentioned, most radar ships have no ASW. In a competitive play, where you often go with many radar ships. You have that effect "you see nothing else" except radar ships. But with the separation, you will see ASW ships and radar ships. If you give Petro and Des Moines ASW, like you mentioned, then you will have "nobody will play anything else"

Hydro can see submarines underwater down to the operating depth. Only the maxium depth is the full-concealment mode

Why does radar go through islands? That's the game design. If RPF would work through water, then that would be a hard counter skill, and I don't think, that would be good for the balance. With the RPF you could probably figure out the exact position of the submarine

I actually like the idea, that non all ships have ASW. That makes ASW ships more valuable, especialls because Petro and Desmoines has none. So in competitive we might see more ASW Ships aside the common radar ships But also, as soon you give more ships ASW; the more you have to nerf the ASW. Just go with the BBs as an example. If there are 4 bbs in the match and 2 have ASW. Then on one side, maybe one BB can drop the plane on the head of a submarine. Maybe the 3rd BB is centered and also in range In a scenario, where all have ASW planes, the sub will get droped 3 times and maybe with 2 charges, that are 6 attacks. The submarines will be under constant attacks, so to compensate, the ASW would need nerfs and thus a single ship will have worse asw.

1. I think IJN should get ASW planes, the mid tiers DCs 2. As you can see below the HP bar and above the distance, that submarines has 0 DivCap. It will surface in a few second, that you can shoot it with 1 or 2 salvos.

I doubt that without testing. The consumable should only stop the DivCap drain. But technically you could activate it with 0:01s and dive I don't think you get the 20s back^^

If we all stopped, then this would be probably all forum people, who actually read stuff like that? That's probably a minority. I think many people spend money on this game are just playing the game. When I started, I also spend money for premium months and later a premium ship, before I was really invovled in forum and youtube stuff Hmm, actually I'm not 100% sure, what exactlly were the conditions around the skin stuff.

Actually, I think he doesn't care that much about it. I mean, not in a negative way, that he is just chill, just playing his game. It alwas feels like, that he is quite chilled about everything LWM also mentioned to be not toxic for those, who decide stay and respect them.

But it would be only a smart move, if WG says no, "Well, we thought about that, and we would be happy, if you stay. We also will implement the skin made by you" and then sell the skin additionally for 500 dubloons, guess that would be a good price for everyone and also compensates the "development" costs Don't know, how they can't do that simple solution. It would increase the reputation

Actually flamu said something like, that they are never listening until the shitstorm comes, then they apologize. That sounds to me, that there is a communication issue. That there are many instances to pass, until something gets notices or accepted. And because of these many instances, some information will translated and transported wrong, until something really bad happens. And when someone really bad happens, it actually reaches all the instances, also the high ones, and then they do something

I think it's more, that all the drama stuff might not reach the majority. I can't say any numbers, but maybe a lot players only play the game without looking at the forums or watching videos

Though if you think about it: In case, if this is a super important issue, which needs a respone. Then it only makes sense, that they take their time and get all the important people, who are in charge, to a meeting. So it will take days In case, it's not a super important issue, then it wouldn't matter, that they take some days for thinking about that issue So it will take some days anyways, probably Just from a logical view

An opinion based on experience and observed scenarios. I'm not sure, if it's overpowered. Only the dmg buff might be too much. But the thing is, in both cases the ship is turning. And as soon you turn, the torpedos might hit the stern, or even miss. That doesn't do much dmg, and that's why it's not really op. I torped a straight moving BB and 2 torps missed, because they move in a pair, the other 2 hit the bow and not the citadell Yes, I mean that in a way, that it won't make too much of a difference for the player to react. I tryed to point out, that the speed buff is very useful for submarines, while the concealment nerf doesn't make it much harder to avoide them. I meant that in a way, where it actually makes a difference in terms of "defending against a torpedo" That the speed will help and buff the submarine was my statement from the beginning, but people act like, there were no nerf on the torps, I pointed out, that the reaction time is the same. You misinterpret, what I'm saying. When my chance to hit is 0,1%. Then I would say, "I have no chance". Because that 0,1% is so small, that it doesn't matter Same like I would say, I have 1,80m height, But guess what, I'm probably not 1,80m but 1,8023426526326326362623624242352352525 But is that relevant? It's not. That's the thing. On PTS, it was very hard to hit. The Chance was very low, because there were so many factors, that made it hard. Of course they were hitting, but it was just no efficient. -Torpedos were so slow, that other mates constantly killed the targets way faster. (Had that many times, that my torps were close to hit, with faster torps they would hit earlier) -Torps were so slow, that they run more often into islands -Torps were so slow, that they couldn't keep up in time. Technically the enemy had to run into the submarine. In my experience, the torpedos were too slow and the buff is the right way. As I said, I don't know if they are now too fast, but buffing the speed is still the righ way Yes, because I'm pretty sure, that in many scenarios both torpedos will hit or miss anyways, once they reach the target. I have no problem with havin the torpedos fast for the first ~5 km, and then they slow down, That would help enough to get them through island That's what I'm saying since days. That was my Feedback after the PTS Again, 1) and 2) are the only possible scenarios for slow torps 3) is a possible scenario with fast torpedos 1) 2) chance to hit? 0% That was a common case on PTS Still don't think, that they are much more dangerous in a relevant way for the receiving player.