Pikkozoikum

Though the mentioning of "getting submarines out of loot boxes" is quite irelevant. They could also go without lootboxes, throwing a dice, when logging in and then send a message "Your acces to submarines will granted in 3 days" or 2days, or now etc I think it's just to not flood the ranked with submarines at day 1, and on day 2 maybe less players from day 1 play submarines, because they don't like them. At 4:22 is actually an important statement

Don't quote me on this, but I think, they already got checked for gambling and that's why they did these bundle thing with boxes

They probably have also assumption about new players. But I doubt that those will cover the costs of that alone. The problem is, public polls are very small, and also I think, it's not representive for the whole player base. I would rather assume to find in forum more % player, that are against something, than % of players in the game, that are against the same Like you have lets say 1000 people in forum and 80% are against X. And then you have 100,000 people in game, where 30% are against X. A different fractionation. If you make a poll, in forum, you will get different answers, then making a poll inside of the game. It would be so nice to actually see ingame polls/surveys and compare that with forum polls. Flambass did once a poll, but I would say, even that is not very representive. If you do a poll on CV, it might be very different, if you go to a ranting streamer or to a CV-main streamer. The audience is different. Well, that's WGs decision. But on the other hand, I don't think you can make changes and new content without having people against it. Especially not in World of Warships. It sounds sometimes like ,that some people want only IJN and USN BBs in the game, nothing else. For exaggerate it a little. For me it's still fun as a free2play title :3 Though I never understood, why someone would buy any of the "lootboxes" Though I'm pretty sure, if the halloween even would have a bad feedback, they would stop there. Probably after the first tests as well

yes

Someone said in a youtube video, that they are not selling lootboxes, but some kind of box bundles. As a work around, that it doesn't count as gambling

Though for me it would be actually logical, that most players never go to the forum. That many player, who visit the forum have a complaint or issue. And that rarely people go to the forum for compliments. I'm not talking about WG, just as a general behavior. But also WG has surveys, and if those surveys are actually negative mostly, then they would never bring submarines. That should be common sense. Why would they put something into the game, that the majority doesn't like?

Nuke attacks exist. In BFV for example. you can make mechanics around those I doubt that, they did something like that in War Thunder, mostly 2nd WW ships and then they added on modern patrol boat with a mini-gun. That thing could deleted destroyers, but was a boat. But I think they nerfed it hard, haven't seen them often lately.

Then use ASW on a BB, dd or cruiser. Doesn't work? Well guns and torpedos work. It's an armament type, especially only against ASW. it's called ANTI-submarine-warfare. It's purpose is to counter submarines. As I said. A totally invisble DD won't go boom by BBs. Didn't compare it with smoke, though you also need to know, that DDs have speed for surviving. Same counts for submarine, only in a different way A BB can go for the cap, A submarine can try to torp him. A BB can outplay torps (DCP, Islands, maneuvers etc) DDs can also stay in safftey range, no idea, how you don't see that ;) "If" 1. Because subs are slow and quite "blind", they work different. They have different advantages and disadvantages 2. DDs have such immunity by staying hidden. Sure, but submarines can miss as well? Or do very little dmg On 2km the submarine is spotted and loses ~2x DivCap. The submarine will probably not have double ping, Or it can be DCP'ed On 2km they might even not home in case of a ping. Also a BB can just move to the side of a Submarine, then it can torp. There are many options, Though a DD on 2km will probably one hit a BB^^ No it's not reasonable, because they have different mechanics. This never works "x has something, that I dont have, so I want it, too" Because then you can also say, "Yes, but Submarines down have 100k hp like a BB; then you are fine with giving submarines 100k hp" That's not how it works. The scenario is completly different. A submarine doesn't move with 40-50 knots and also splash damage doesn't do dmg to hull. Different mechanics. Aside that scenario, the DD maybe played back, if he gets spotted that close from a whole team. But what I described is a max range scenario. ASW-planes have 13km range, Only Balao has more range, but torping on max range is not always working. An enemy sub just has to use the hydro, and then all the ships will drop bombs on the sub. It's Splash-bomb dmg vs a slow target. Not comparable with gun fire against a fast target They don't have free pass. But there is no reason to make in unplayable So you want nerf the BBs, that already have ASW? That would mean, a BB can drop their stuff, but it won't kill him anyways. It would be overall a nerf to ASW A single BB can kill a sub with ASW, and you want give that to all BBs and cruisers. That makes a sub unplayable. Because it's not that hard to use ASW and if there are like 4-8 bomber attacks, no SS can survive that. A single BB can easily take out SS. There I did a double kill with ASW + guns. My guns took in one salvo 100% hp You want give ships DCs, that didnt had DCs? I assume, if a ship gets ASW, then it will be implemented in the same manner, like it is now. And as I said, that would have the consquences, that all ASW needs to be nerfed, otherwise its an overkill Then the damage potential is decreased. 7k dmg torps against a 50% dmg reduction? 3.5k dmg. And those torpedos have ~10s reaction time, they are spotted from the moon. As far as I know, they don't bypass torpedo protection. At least that was stated in one patch earlier. They do only increased dmg against citadells Of course homing have advantages, but they also have disadvantage. And the point isn ot to say "X is op, because they have advantages" and then ignore, they have also disadvantages xD But you know, that DDs have 2 types of main armament, while SSs only have one? ;) Also the flooding chance should be different and some other parameters Woudln't be sure about that, I think they get bonus dmg, while torpedo protection is still active. But also you can DCP that. You can't DCP dmg from DD torpedos The SS torpedos have some different mechanics Did I say, those torpedos are bad? I think I rather said, they needed a buff to make the more usable. I mean, you can take the numbers before the buff ;) I also said, if they are overbuffed, they could still get nerfed, but I think a high speed is the right design. and I think I alos mentioned, that the dmg buff might be unecessary But that is stuff, that has to be tested I didn'T say that, I actually said, it's more or less the same situation. You can play around both situations. Mostly against a DD you would move away, though on that close range it's pretty difficult because of the speed of a DD But I explained, how to play around SS -use islands -depending on HP, just sit close, torpedos can't home or increase in depth -try to move to the side of the submarine and deplete the DivCap, sumbarines are sluggish You compare T10 SS with T8 DDs. You forget about engine boost of DDs. And there are also way faster DDs Take the T8 SS and compare those with T10s ;) As I said, SS are the slowest class aside BBs You also don't understand, what I mean with low range. High range is 18+km, mid range is maybe around ~15km. 14km is almost mid range, but well, thats really the max, mostly you can't torp on 14km unless the target is moving towards the sub The thing is with DDs is, they often have low/mid range, but htey also have the speed Submarines have the COMBINATION of LOW RANGE (Range of DDs) and SLOW SPEED (speed level of fast BBs) so a 30 knot SS chases a 27 knot Yamato? 3 knot difference? That will take a long while. I really don't know, why people think, that submarines are op. I played them a lot and also played against them. My conclusion is, they will be the most inflexible and match influencial class in the game generally. They can only have great influence, if the enemy fall for the trap. That can happen. But the combination of the speed of a BB and the range of DD makes it inflexbile, And flexibility can be the key for a victory. That's why DDs and CVs are so influencial If the speed buff is too much is hard to say, we couldn't test them against players, but the idea of buffing the speed, is logically

I don't see why every ship should get special counter play against subs. Though, why not giving all ships radar :-| If you give every ship ASW, then there is way more pressure on the submarines, there will be constant DC drops on a sub from all places. Do balance that, they would need to nerf DCs extremly. And then the single ships wouldn't be able to sink a Submarine. Would be the same with radar, giving everyone radar would only work, if radar would get nerfed

The issue is not the sarcasm, the issue is the exaggeration. It's like I would say, "Montana never existed in 2nd WW (and not even ever), lets add the Zumwalt-class!"

Don't mind the down votes, the forum is mostly for rant :3

With V2 or what? I think the first ballistic Submarines are pretty late. There are some post war ships in this game, though I would say, that is the very end of the range, and not that a whole T10 of that class should contain ~1960s vessels That makes no sense at all. It's like I would say. "okay, lets implement now real battle ships. They one shot everyting with 1 shell." Even if there would be something like that added, then they would make them fit into the game. That should be common sense Technically there is no issue, only in the way how you would add them.

But that's how a hype works. It's new, people want try it, until it's less new and they realize, that they prefer other ships. Has nothing specifically to do with submarines, but with new stuff. You can see that with the CV Rework as well. And you see that with the release of the game in the player numbers.

That is how a Meta is forming.Once, when Kleber was released, it was a very strong pick on CBs and you had sometimes these 4, or 5 Kleber teams. But in this case it's actually not because of balance, it's more the early hype and testing. If somenone wants test something, he will play the new stuff or the counter. When submarines get released, it might take a few weeks, until it stabilzes back to normal. Though maybe even faster, since they are available on live server now. Maybe that lowers the hype, when they actually get released

On the test servers, cruisers were a very good choice, because of all the DDs. And once the surface ships are killed, the cruisers could go for the submarines easily

It's better to be not too close. Above 4km, so the sub stay hidden and torpedos will home. Too close and the torps won't home When you hit the citadel with a double ping active, they do huge dmg ^^ I think max dmg against BBs with all cit hits will be around ~70k Technically the USN Submarines have rash dive as consumable. It increases the dive speed And emergency blow mechanic is in the game. When you are at 0 Dive Capacity, the Emergency blow mechanic actives and you wil have 20s, until the submarine automatically surfaces. This timer reduces every time you are forced to use the emergency blow 20s -> 10s -> 5s -> 0s

Yes, but that's why it's good, that there are no concealment skills, because everyone would take it. There would be less variety and i think with these conditional skills, it weakens all the available skills. That makes them less important and thus people can skill with more different builds. I actually like these skills, because on the one hand, the effects are very strong. But on the other hand, while the effect is strong, the skill itself is not too strong because of the conditions. We don't get these weird 3% more dmg skills. I really don't like such skills. Also must-have skills are boring. I personally think, that there should be many different viable skill builds. I like it, when they changed that in World of Warcraft with the talents. There were some must-have talents, but also some talents where really personal preference.

Technically it's weird to have so many conditions, but on the otherhand, maybe they want the submarine designed around, that hey don't need flat skills and rather play around these conditions. Technically, when an BB drops early or ind midgame some ASW stuff on a submarine, they it could be usefull, but personally I didn't like it much on submarines. There are no concealment skills as well, in they rely on concealment, but I actually like it, that there are no concealment skills, because everyone would take those always. And that would be bad, a must-have skill is boring Maybe it's really better to have so many conditional skills, it's harder to figure out, if there are must-have skills, or maybe there are none

Hab nichts gegen eine Dikussion, solange sie sachlich ist. Problem ist aber auch, dass Uboote noch neu sind, und viele gar nicht wissen was Sache ist ^^

warum haben wir nicht solche Smileys? :-/

That depends on the case. Sometimes it's not subjective I wasn't talking about that specific case, just generalizing, that somtimes in some other cases the "defending" is actually justified. For example, people often say "WG balances for popularity", though I looked the summit, where this refers to and I can't find anywhere, where they said that. Only one part it could be misinterpretated. Guess that's why people come up with that. It's really not about this case, at least I wouldn't "defend" them here. Because I also don't know much about the situation. It's just, sometimes people may defend them in some cases, because it's justified. I think, if some CCs (even though that are quite poplar CCs) leave, it won't harm WG much. But actually if that goes viral and public (to external media), that cause some damage at the reputation

At the risk of sounding like some tinfoil nut job, people need to realise there are a number of ‘forumites’ here deliberately trying to dilute the negative impact of WGs dubious decisions. See if you can spot them. I suspect the same may be active elsewhere. On another note, the walkout may not say much about the integrity of those cc’s that remain? But I could be wrong. Though the world is not black and white. When someone says something wrong about a statement of WG, then I would "defend" WG. If WG does "A" wrong and "B" right and now somone attacks "B", then I would defend B, which doesn't mean I defend "A" as well, or that I agree with A

Yes, though a real good result will we only get after weeks. Because there are many players, who won't be informed, how to play against or with that

It's a tactic, when you explain your gameplay in a specific scenario. We were talking about counter-measurements like Radar, ASW, not how to deal with an enemy, when this is not available. Aside that, there are tactics to deal with a submarine as well, if no counter measurements are available. Radar does no dmg, but it's still the same relation. Ship gets a counter measurement to deal with specific encounters. Radar ships get radar to deal with hidden enemies in range (DDs). ASW ships get ASW armament to deal with submerged submarines. That's were we have to understand, that the given ability doesn't mean, that its likely in a relevant way. That a BB will hit a never(rarely) spotted DD is so unlikely, that you could say, that this won't happen ever. Such a DD is technically immune to those shells. Other wise, I'm free to go to the training room with you, you play BB and I play DD, and you try to hit me. If it's only about to have the ability to hit, no matter if it makes sense or not, then we could give everyone DCs with 1 dmg. The ability would be given, but it would be as much relevant, as it will be for guns to hit a DD without intel 1. Why does it matter to push a submarine away from the cap? It will be hit-able by guns or submerged, then it doesn't cap. 2. Deplete the DivCap and take the cap. 3. On close range, it won't be able to get the torpedos homing. Also the DivCap will be ~2x faster depeleted, if the sub is spotted. 4. Maneuver to the side of the sub Depletes the DivCap faster. You mean impossible in a common sense way. And what will you do as BB, when a DD is around you? Shooting randomly around? It's almost the same encounter, the DD will also torp the BB and don't tell me, that you always win against DDs in your BB and dodge always all the torps ;P I actually shot already submarines with the main guns, even players. I played all the test rounds, PTS, live Event-Test, TST and coop-test And yet you can hit Submarines with torpedos and guns. The result is the same. A Dd that is completly hidden won't be hit. Nobody even would waste shells, it will cause a reload with 0 dmg. The big difference is, that you are able to waste your shells by a potentially hit, that will never happen in 100,000 cases I mean, you can also play lottery and hope for the big jackpot ;) Though I could assume, that the chance is even lower than that. The difference is something that is impossible, and something that is so close to impossible, that everyone with common sense will say "it's impossible" The result is, both can't be harmed I see no reason here, why this is an argument for ASW for all ships. Everyone can harm subs with guns. It just needs to deplete their DivCap Imagine everyone gets ASW. Now you have 2 bbs and one heavy crusier. Sub gets spotted. Everyone launches ASW, sub dead. Submarines would be unplayable. Or you nerf all the ASW planes, and then you will complain, that a single BB can't kill a submarine. ;) It's the same fun, when a DD uses 40-50 knots to stay hidden and drop torpedos for 5 minutes. That's the point. Not every ship should get hard counters The spotting ability of subs is weaker than the spotting as surface ships. As soon a submarine goes to periscope depth, all ship will get better concealment values (air concealment is also submarine concealment) No, influence is not reduced, that's the playstyle of DDs. That's how they play. They stay in their positions, where they are effective. And you say, that unguided torpedos are something bad. They have advantages over the homing. -Way more max dmg -Don't need to hit citadell for max dmg -Can't be trolled by guiding into islands -Can't be countered by using DCP (not talking about flooding) -Pinging also shows the direction of the torps, even if not in spotting range Those unguided torpedos work pretty fine ;) Also most subs won't go for the cap, if it's not safe... I played a lot submarine, and being close can be so easily a death sentence. You just lose so foas the DivCap and torping the enemy is also not that easy, since you can only launch forward (or backward). Submarines are not that flexible, that's a big weakness of these boats. That makes no sense, what you say :P Why not giving all ships Radar? Lets give everyone coutners to counters :3 As I said, if there is the case, were one ship is in an disadvantage, then you can't argue, that it should get counters... When I play my Shikishima, and the enemies got a DD and I'm now alone, then there is no way, that I can deal with that by the consumables/armament I have. The only way is, that the enemy is stupid and plays bad. That has nothing to do with the ship, but with the player. And that also happens with submarines, that they missplay. Why can submarines fail as much as they like? That's new to me. Said it earlier, giving all ships ASW would lead to 2 things -Subs are instant death all the time as soon they get spotted for 1s (DCs cover a big area, using planes is quite easy, especially when there are 3-5 ships with that) -DCs will be nerfed, to encounter the issue of mass-ASW, single ships will be very bad against SS, because many ships have too easy times to kill a sub no, mostly it doesn't lose effectiveness, because that's the strength of a DD. Fast speed, good concealment -> Moves close to a BB ~7-8 km and drops the torps in suprise. Did you never do that to a BB in a DD? Firing into a smoke can work, but if the DD never showed up... You exaggerate. They don't keep farming from good position. They are slow and inflexible with relative short range. It's quite easy to play around it. But of course, it will happen, that a submarine will be in a good position to kill someone. Like any other ship will do that as well. And you say that like the 30 knots and 10-14km range is much ^^ Subs are slow vehicles in this games. DDs are faster, Cruisers are faster, and even some BBs are faster. What are you doing against a DD with 40+knots and/or 16km range? And btw, homing torpeods, that have to adjust the coruse, loses max distance As I said, what if a DD is not spotted for minutes and does a surprise attack from a flank? There is no way to harm him.with guns But I also said, okay, add DCs that do 1 dmg ;) That's more dmg, then against a completly undiscovered DD

Maximum depth is good for avoiding DCs, since they have more distance to sink. Especially T10s have high speed submerged. But Maxium depth can be used to attack as well without getting spotted. On Maximum depth the concealment goes down to 0 km and even the 4km pinging concealment goes down to 0km Though the submarine is blind, but it can use hydro. That means, when an enemy is around 3-4km, and you don't want get discovered, because you are pinging, then you go down to maximum depth and activate hydro and ping from there. But it's a bit harder to perform with Hydro-spotting