Pikkozoikum

I explained why, but it seems repeating the explanation doesn't make sense, since it gets ignored. Wasn't my one argument, Kleber is just the extreme example. Most DDs are faster with speed boost than irl. But I can repeat myself over and over again. Also most planes were extremly more faster than in this game. According to your logic, we have to buff the speed of the planes. Proof it. I showed the official source. Show me the soruce, that the coefficient is different, otherwise it's an empty claim. That's the extreme rude thing about your statements. you claim, that I would never deliver any arguments, but then you go always with "It's not". That is not an argument. In case you don't know, which coefficient I mean: This game is overall accelerated. It's the ship speed times the coefficient. For Yamato it's 27 knots x coefficient. For Balao it's 30 knots x coefficient. Please link me the soruce, that the coefficient for SS marines is different than the planes/ships coefficient. I think it's 5.5 with knots including the transversion into km/h Please quote me, where I said, that irl second WW submarines moved that fast. But reading that, no wonder... I think this discussion makes no sense, when about 90% of my statements get ignored and the rest misinterpretated. Maybe I wrote it bad, or you just didn't read it properly, I don't know, but this is wrong. I never said/meant it in that way. And don't come up with lying, that's the totally wrong word. Lying would mean, that I intentionally say the untruth. But I said the truth or my opinion, or even if something is somewhere not true, then it's not lying, that is making mistake. Like you do a lot currently by getting the wrong context. Wouldn't say you lie. 1. I said, that the coefficient is the same. 2. I explained, why the ship-stat "speed" of submarines must be higher with examples. Shall I quote it, where I said that?

I have to repeat myself over and over again. The speed coefficient of all ships is the same. The stats of the ship is different. A kleber can move 55 knots times the coefficient. A U-69 moves with 25 knots times the coefficient. So no idea, what you are talking about. The Coefficient is for all the same, unless you can give me a soruce, that they use a different coefficient. There speed-stat of the vessel is different from irl. But what is the point of that? Where is the context? I explained everything around it. ok. Lets quote a single sentence but ignore all arguments, statements, facts, experiences and description and say, "But there is nothing" xD I do the same now. I mean, we don't read wall of textes here, right?

20210820_163918_PGSS106-U-69_13_OC_new_dawn.wowsreplay that was a fun match, and that missplay at the end, damn, I didn't watch xD

You need to consider a few points Submarines are new and mostly not played at their full potential Submarines are slow with short/medium range, that makes them inflexible and only strong in specific situations A bad match. DDs can also die very early, it's similar with SS I had also some good matches like this one: So I think you can have both, bad matches and good matches. Though it might be harder to get a good match, because of the speed/range issue of submarines. That's what I assume.

I was asking you, what you exactly mean with "time compression", so I know, we talk about the same or something different. Because I was talking about a completly different topic and not the artifically speed increase of world of warships, which every shell, torpedo and ship has, as it also has a larger size-scale. I would assume, that submarines count to ships. In case you mean that with "time compression" That's your claim. It would be an argument, if there would be some reference, numbers, prooves etc. And you still didn't understand the the thing with the personal preference. You "I admit, it's only my personal prefence" Me "Oh, that's fine" You "HOW DARE YOU!?!?!?" You come up all the time with the personal prefence, not me. For the record: You came up again with it. That is an EXAMPLE. There are people, who claimed that. I gave an EXAMPLE for my COMMENTS here, which have nothing to do with personal prefence. I was not quoting you. I summarize it for you: I like submarines I was a submarine main in Steel Ocean I like talking about it If someone says something, that is worthy to talk about, then I talk about it If someone claims something wrong, or something, that lacks in perspectives, then I might engage a discussion I don't claim to be always right or correct, everyone does mistakes Some statements are based on my opinion and experience, mostly I mention that It might not cover everything. How to make a serious discussion. Btw you engaged me with this conversation. Initially about immersion. I said, the immersion compared to the rest of the game is fine for me, you said, it's breaking the immersion. I explained, why it's fine for me. Go with it or let it.

Played now a few rounds with submarines. BBs can dodge torpedos. Shot 3 salvos, only the 3rd salvo archived cit, though the BB could have DCP'ed that. Mostly the torpedos just missed. And I used a spread and delay, to make it harder to dodge. On the other hand, I could generate in most games quite a lot base exp. Even surface-shot a DD. It felt OP; but then, if the DD wouldn't move straight on me, he could just dodge it, I assume. I don't think that the concept of homing Torpedos is OP by default. If someone doesn't like the design, I can understand that, but not, if someone thinks, they are op just because they are homing Some Screenshots here: That's my experience so far

I didn't say, there is time compression in all games? I said, there is always something for submarines, that accelerates their speed in some way. In Sims you often have realistic speed, but that would be boring, if there wouldn't be a way for accelerating the time Time compression is mostly not an option for Real time pvp games (I mean shooter like games, not RTS like paradox games), so we need some way to compensate that. Steel Ocean and WoWS do that by increasing the speed of submarines. Steel Ocean had in mid tier 25 knot subs (I don't know high tiers) Which submarine game has not a way to skip long waiting times (by speed or time)? That's rather rude. I wish you would play the game, rather than posting this nonsense. You totally mistaken it here. I was refering to something very specific, where you said, that this is your personal preference. And I agreed, that if that is your personal preference, than there is no reason to argue around. But what you say here is no context. Yes, I want submarines in the game, but how does that matter with most statements? If I say, "I like math" and then "1+1=2" Is 1+1=2 wrong, just because I like math? That makes totally no sense. And that is literally what you are saying, "You like subs, so you statements are all personal preference", No. A personal preference is, when I want submarines. When I say, that the torpedo dmg buff is too high, then that is not a personal prefence. It's a statement based on experience, assumptions and analyzing numbers. Also you totally misunderstand true statements. When someone says "Submarines never fought warships". Then it has nothing to do with my personal preference, if that statement is wrong. Aside that, I said many times, that I like submarines, so why saying wrong stuff like "not ready to blatantly admit, you like submarines (...)". I said exactly that, that I like submarines, that I was in Steel Ocean a submarine main. Some examples: Even month if not years ago. So where I'm not saying, that I don't like submarines? xD And if that is not even enough, I'm sure you can quote me, where I exactly say, that I like submarines in general. But also I don't know how that matters about my statements. It was only about this: I said, okay, if it's your personal preference, then fine!

There is a reason, why companies do contracts and not promises ;)

Sadly I think, they don't want give IJN cruisers ASW in general. Like all get ASW or none

But that's what we kinda do. Submarines lurk for the easy targets. And we have to consider, it's an arcade game, not a simulation. We don't have "battles" like irl in this game. Would like to see that source of that claim. Also I said team game. Not High team-support-coordinated game. A Team game is where a team fights another team. How well they play together has nothing to do with the mode. Is there 1 team vs another team? Team game. Well, I'm just realistic about that. Or do you say, that those commercials are more true than what I said about that? ;) Is that what you think? You brought it up and said it's your personal prefence, not my words, I just repeated those words. Not sure what you mean with time scaling? Good I guess ;P But it'S true, if people make different experience, they are also judging different. Do you know Dark Souls? Many Dark Souls veterans say that DS2 is worst. But that's mostly because of nostalgia and how they started with DS1. I started with DS2 and I loved it. I don't have the DS1 to DS2 experience. I later played DS1 though

I think submarine torpedos still had a few km range. And well, there was at least one battle, were submarines lurked for retreating ships. But then: BBs encountered quite rarely others BBs as well. If some historian is here around, he might count them all No idea what you mean or how that matters. It's still a team-pvp game and not a realstic strategic naval battle game. Otherwise we would have completly different gameplay. I doubt that single DDs were used irl to melt BBs, while sitting in a smoke. Or cruisers camped behind islands. The gameplay is completly not a realistic naval battle, it's just a pvp-team fight with ships ^^ I explained, how... and also, why we won't get it. But if you skip that... :P Dunno I played first Steel Ocean and changed from there to Warships. Though I played Steel Ocean 100s of hours. I think around ~500. Steel Ocean had some good mechanics, but overall worse quality. The spotting for example was actually more fun, but also more complex and chaotic I didn't joing WoWS, because it looked a bit like WoT, which I didn't like much, where some guns are not functional etc. So I ignored it firstly

I mentioned every feedback, that we should get the equivalent of AP and HE shells for submarines -Slow, short range, high alpha damg torps (unguided) -fast, long range, low aplpha damage torps (guided) The guided is the equivalent of "harder to avoide" just like HE. HE is very hard to avoide. The short range torpedos are the high damage "AP"s, once in range and very close, they can be devestating

No, I think that wasn't a reason. I actually liked that, and I would also like it in WoWS, but that would need rebalancing. The issues with Steel Ocean was motly, that it was behind WoWS. Graphics, acousting and also bad balancing. Yes, but for me it never felt like a real naval battle game, more like a pvp game with warships. Alone the fact, that you have all nations vs all nations, and DDs that melt BBs with guns. Yes, and it would be still more immersive, when you have submarines in the battle, but remove all paper ships and allow only axis vs allies. That would be way more immersive imo. I don't see an issue with subs having in a battle. If for what ever coincidence a submarine was close by a surface battle, wouldn't they shoot their torps on a ship? Well, if it's your personal preference, then it's up to you ^^ I'm saying, that you need speed on submarines in games in what ever way. But a real time pvp game has often issues with time compression, so they need to adress the issue in another way. It's probably possible to implement submarines with realistic speeds, but it would be very difficult to do that. They would need some kind of stationary gameplay like a turret. That would also mean, they need way more "defensive and stealth" mechanics. They need to spawn close in the cap. and so on I think the mechanics you would need is not fitting for world of Warships, it wouldn't be arcadey enough for the game. A default arcade approach is a speed increase and reducing physical laws Not sure, what you mean. But I think I explain my views kinda well. even though they seem often missunderstood. I use numbers, experiencenes, examples, comparions. That is way more than stuff like: "Hello, submarines are fine, you are wrong" comments ^^ Not sure what you mean with dismiss your argument? I mean, I explained the different speed pretty well, alone the speed difference from planes shows, that we go with different speeds, but a Kleber with 55 knots is just an overkill. That dismiss for me the argue "subs are too fast", aside it's an arcade game, and arcade games do that stuff (see Steel Ocean)

Some do. They are saying, that BBs will be unplayable and stuff like that. That's why I mention always all the other parameters like the max speed of submarines (similar to BB speed), max range of the submarines and coutners. Because people are not capable of discussing and only go with "No, you are wrong", without any arguments, explanations or prooves? ;D "spamming the forum with walls of text", I would rather call it a detailed explanation and argumentation. Going with "No you are wrong" is not really proofing anything. If you don't like it, skip it. Use the ignore button.

Actually not. I played Steel Ocean, that was quite similar to World of Warships and that game had limited Torpedos. Same as War Thunder In Steel ocean it was fun to play with limited armament ,because you don't spam it. You would chose a target wisely and save for good shots. That can be a lot of fun That's actually something, what I don't like at the current CV rework. The large amount of planes make it spammy. With less planes, the CV would have to think more about the attack and maybe even wait, instead of spamming plane after plane into the enemy. Thats why CV is mostly "rushing" for damage When I looked up the data, it was completly different. Kleber has max speed 44 knots in game and the Mogador class 39 knots The default speed is already higher. And max speeds might even something, that the ships not always performed. But then if you activate all the speed stuff, how fast is a kleber? 55 knots? 39 knots vs 44 knots (55 knots max) I think many DDs have the default max speed set at the max speed irl. But DDs have also skills and modules to increase it way further How is a Petro immersive or a Smol? :D I rather think that a U-69 is more immersive I disagree, that is some kind of cherry picking ,when a match vs russian super ships in a surface combat is still immersive with all nations including, but as soon a existing submarine joins, it's not immersive. As far I know and what also mentioned once by a CC, BB rarely fought other BBs. that happen only a few times. A very rare encounter. But in this game it's default. That is technically as unrealistic as having submarines engaging surface warships. Aside that, most games, if not all are designed that way. I played recently War on the Sea, and I use submarines mostly solo, but also, when they are around, combined with Air and surface vehicles. That's not a WG think, all submarines in every game are designed that way. In may sim-games you get time-acceleration. In pvp games like Steel Ocean or now in Warships the boats are faster than irl. Though Steel Ocean subs were a tiny bit slower. Mostly around 18-25 knots (though those were low->mid tier) I think they could remove 1-3 knots from the boats. But then, Physics are generally broken. Radar, instant extinguishing of fires/floods and I think aircrafts are generally extremly slow in this game. D3A T6 130 knots. How much gives the boost, 150 knots? Irl they had max speed 230 knots. J5N T10 152 knots, should be below 200 knots with boost. Irl 334 knots, even if you take 10% for bombload away, or even 20%. they are still way too slow I don't think anyone is immersive broken, because the planes are not flying that fast^^ I don't see the issues there. Not optimal, but also not that bad

Though that would be ignorant. Subs with sonar pings is science fiction, but radar through mountains, unlimited torpedos, high speed DDs, non-existant Ships like Montana are fine :3 I'm not saying, that the homing, sonar ping design is the best possible design. But I had fun and I'm kinda fine with that.

Though it would still sound better, when people would talk about the management of WG or the financial deptartment. Those who go with the financial design As Mighty Jingles say in his video, years ago he spend money, because he liked the game. And that's how a f2p should be deisgned. It should be free2play and if someone like the game, he can spend money. I had a similar feeling in League of Legends, I liked the game, and I liked the way, how they offer someonthign for money - in skins, only cosmetics. I really like that kind

But an issue, that I have, is that we talk about WG as a whole. I don't think that Sehales, Crysantos or Yabba is evil. MrConway maybe. But I think the issue are some manager/financial people, who don't care about the player comunity and their job is to make money for the company

But maybe sith are not evil, just different

I didn't think that. I think it's a way to limit access to submarine to make it not overloaded at day one. No matter if lootbox, daily loging, combat missions or lottery. They could also give all the access at day one, but I think that wouldn't be good.

I see the logic behind it, but don't see, how that should work out. Just because I clicked the submarine lootbox, doesnt make me buy stuff

Petro with ASW? v_v

Tbh, I think most ships should get reduced down to 1, so the module with +2 charges make actually sense. I don't think ships need 2+2 charges with the module

Though I actually like the visuals and especially the music, with I would have that music in submarine battles. I could only imagine, that this looks like a bit of advertisement. If it looks pretty, it might get more attractive. But then, that has nothing to do with loot boxes, that are only the visuals and acoustics But how that matter for submarines? It's just a delayed access mechanic. No matter if that is a loot box, daily login-mechanic or what ever

But that's what I mean, if submarines are limited by access by time or only accessable by lootboxes over time. The Effect/result is the same ^^ So I don't see, why that is relevant to mention. I mean, it's a good catalyst for the narration "lootboxes everywhere", but those lootboxes are no issue imo