Pikkozoikum

Das Replay ist ein Coop match ;) Anhand der Screenshots sehe ich nichts außergewöhnliches. Es sieht eher sehr durchmischt und normal aus. Subs sind auf 2., 3., 5. und letzte Platz. Bei Spielern, die immer auf dem letzten Platz sind, vermute ich zu einem, dass sie einfach keine Ahnung von Subs haben, oder auf Grund ihrere Geschwindigkeit und Positionierung nichts ausrichten konnten Letzteres hatte ich auch schon öfter

Die Frage und Antwort auf Informationen beruht weniger auf Erfahrung. Manche Vorgehensweisen und Betrachtungsweisen beruhen auf Erfahrung. Das Ding ist, wenn man wenig Erfahrung hat, ist die Betrachtungsweise anders, als wenn man viel Erfahrung hat. Ich weiß nicht wie viel Erfahrung du hast und wie gut du dich mit Ubooten auskennst. Allerdings sah es mir nach ein paar Fehleinschätzungen aus anhand der Beschreibungen. Ob jemand eine objektive Betrachtung hat, oder nicht, spielt keine Rolle, wenn es um bestimmte Aussagen gibt. Darüberhinaus, was ich leider immer wieder dazu sagen muss: Ja, ich mag Uboote, aber ich möchte sie gut implementiert haben, nicht schlecht. Daher bin ich wesentlich neutraler, als Leute, die Vorurteile gegenüber Uboote haben, ganz gleich wie gut oder schlecht sie sind. Aber ganz gleich, ob man nun gegen oder für Uboote ist, sollte man sich mit dem Uboot auskennen, ansonsten kommt es nur zu Falschaussagen

Nee, das wird sich komplett unterscheiden. Zur Zeit sind nur die informiert, die auch auf Testserverspielen. Vermutlich sind das eher wenige. In Zukunft, sagen wir 6 Monate nach Release, sind alle, die das Spiel spielen, informiert. Nur Neueinsteiger werden nicht informiert sein. Es wird natürlich Unterschiede geben, wie gut manche über eine Klasse Bescheid werden. Aber der Effekt "Neu, niemand weiß was" wird verschwinden. Du hattest doch jetzt erst selbst nach Infos gefragt? Sowas hat man eben nur, wenn etwas neu ist ^^

Ich denke nicht, dass meine Information falsch sind. Liegt aller höchstens an unterschiedlichen Betrachtungsweisen, sowas ist dann aber subjektiv. Natürlich kann sich noch vieles ändern, aber die Infos gelten für den jetztigen Test Rate ich von ab. Man kann sich die Videos anschauen, aber das Bild, dass sich ergeben wird, wird falsch sein. Zeige ich eine 11-kills Yamato, ist das nichtssagend zum BB-gameplay. Vorallem solche "best replays"......... Zudem sind häufig Youtuber biased und setzen sich nicht genau mit den Mechaniken auseinander. Ein paar Videos gibt nur ein paar Gefechte wieder. Meine Infos beruhen auf eher 60-80 Matches mit Ubooten (PTS+live server) und viel mehr durchweg aller Tests. Ist kein schönreden, wenn ich Mechaniken erkläre. Mechaniken sind festgelegte Funktionsweisen. Es widerlegt auch keiner meiner Aussagen, wenn du sagst, "Das stimmt nicht, weil du es schreibst". Meine Person hat nichts mit einer Aussage zu tun. Wenn ich sage 1+1=2, ist das dann falsch, weil ich Uboote mag? Oder wenn ich sage 7800 + 7800 Torpedoschaden von einem Uboot sind 15600 Torpedoschaden. ist das falsch? Befasse dich mit den Aussagen, die deiner Meinung nach falsch sind, nicht mit der Person. Ansonsten kann ich das Gegenargument bringen, "Weil du gegen Uboote bist, ist alles was du sagst auch nur Hassrede". Das primäre Teamspiel besteht daraus, dass sie Klassen gegenseitig decken. In einem CB geht es häufig darum, bestimmte Zusammenstellungen zu haben, die sich gegenseitig ergänzen. Ein DD braucht die Feuerkraft von BBs und Kreuzern als Unterstützung gegen den Feind-DD Ein BB braucht die Frontlinie des DDs oder strategische Position eines Kreuzer, damit er nicht von "unsichtbaren" Gegnern überrannt wird. Ein Kreuzer braucht BBs und DDs, damit dieser von einem BB gepushed wird. Wie genau ein SS jetzt da reinpasst, ist noch schwer zu sagen. Sie kommen mir ein wenig wie ein "Geschützturm" vor. Die gegen einen Push eingesetzt werden können, oder um Bereiche abzusichern. Darüber hinaus können sie Aushilfs-spotter sein und cappen. Es gibt nützliche Consumables, die teamdienlich sein können. Aber dieser hat nicht jeder und nicht jeder setzt sie auch dafür ein. Daher ist meine Meinung nach ein nicht-vorhanden-sein kein Kriterium. Es gibt auch Teamspiele wie Counter-Strike, da gehts auch nur ums Ballern, dennoch ist es ein Teamspiel Das ist eine große Fehleinschätzung. Der Dauerping verursacht keinen Schaden. Warum also DCP benutzen? Man benutzt DCP gegen den Ping, wenn Torpedos auch wirklich auf das Schiff zu kommen. Ein Ping auf einem Schiff macht keinen Schaden ohne folgende Torpedos. Torpedos haben einen längere Nachladezeit. DCP ist nur notwendig, wenn ein Einschlag bevorsteht. Nur, wenn auch die Zitadelle getroffen werden könnte Sclachtschiffe können auch Torpedos ausweichen. Ich vermute, ein paar Superunicums werden bald einen Sweetspot ausmachen, wie man optimal torpedos ausweicht Wenn ein Schiff DCP gegen Feuer einsetzt, steht es auch nackt da. So ist das nunmal, wenn man DCP gegen etwas einsetzt. Warum ist das unfair? Wenn ein Schiff Feuer gefangen hat, es gelöscht wird, kann es danach auch wieder Feuer fangen. Das ist nun mal so. DCP gibt keine perma-Immunität. Wobei im Gegensatz zu einem Feuer macht ein Ping keinen Schaden. Warum spielt es eine Rolle, wie lange das Uboot nicht anpingen kann? Es geht um die Torpedos, un der Reload der Torpedos. Es geht darum, das du nicht permanent DCP spammst, bei jedem einzelnen Ping, den du bekommst. DCP ist ein Notfall-consumable, dass du in bestimmten Situationen einsetzt Der Reload der Torpedos bei T6 etwa 50-60s Du wirst angepingt -> Kein DCP Du siehst Torpedos -> Abschätzen Können die Torpedos ohne DCP ausgewichen? -> kein DCP Werden die Torpedos Bug oder Heck treffen? -> kein DCP Treffen die Torpedos mit nur einen Ping -> kein DCP Werden die Torpedos die Zitadelle treffen? -> DCP Ich sehe viele Fehler. Sie dreht zu früh ein, un weicht so nicht den Torpedos aus. Im richtigen Moment können so alle Torpedos verfehlen Sie nutzt DCP nach Einschlag, nicht vor Einschlag. Torpedos können nicht die Zitadelle treffen, wenn kurz vor dem Einschlag die Pings entfernt werden. Nachdem sie so viel Schaden genommen hat, hätte sie direkt volle Fahrt auf die Inseln nehmen sollen. Die Insel bietet Deckung und bietet auch eine Chance, dass die Torpedos gegne die Insel fahren Da Pings schon Dauer aktiv sind, verfolgen die Torpedos direkt zu beginng, demnach werden sie definitiv auf die Insel zu rasen. Der Fehler war, dass sie direkt in die Mitte gepusht hat. hinter die Insel war eine gute Idee. 1 Sekunde früher eingedreht und die Torpedos wären alle in die Insel gefahren, wenn ma sich mal die Minimap anschaut Ein weiterer Fehler -> kein DCP bei Einschlag. Warum will man 4 cit hits nehmen? Deutsches Uboot - 7k dmg x4 = 28k - 16% = 23k dmg. Mit Skilliung Deutsches Uboot - 7k dmg x4 = 28k - 23% = 21k dmg. Also etwas über 20k noch über gehabt. Wenn man das DCP richitig timed, verfehlen die vllt sogar noch. Naja, was heißt timen. Die Reaktionszeit der Torpedos beträgt klein bisschen über 10s. Das russische DCP hält 10s. Benutzt man also das DCP 1 oder 2 Sekunden nach der Sichtung (falls man selbst sichtet), dann Verfolgen die Torpedos schon nicht mehr und bei Einschlag werden sie auch nicht Zita dmg machen, da DCP noch aktiv ist und kein Neuer Ping drauf sein kann. (Man beachte, dass wenn man wegfährt, sich die Zeiten ändern) Ob balanced oder nicht, da möchte ich mich nicht aus dem Fenster lehnen. Das ist jetzt viel zu schwer zu sagen. Wenn jemand wie ich, der viel SS gespielt hat, und die meisten Mechanik kennt auf jemanden trifft, der nicht mal weiß, dass die Uboote jetzt im Spiel sind (weil er keine News liest), dann ist das Spielergbenis ziemlich offensichtlich. Daher, ob sie balanced sind, kann man nicht sagen, weil man einfach ein riesiges Knowlegde-gap hat bei den Spielern. Ich kann dir hier mal ein paar Bilder zeigen, dass es Möglichkeiten gibt: Die Torpedos werden verfehlen: Hier ist ein DD nach rechts gefahren in der smoke, ich hatte erst die Torpedos abgefeuert, dann den DD in der Smoke angepungt. Der DD gibt gas und die Torpedos fahren gegen die Insel. BB ist volle Breitseite gefahren, hat eingelenkt, alles daneben. Aber wie gesagt, ich würde mich nicht zu weit aus dem Fenster lehnen und sagen sie sind OP oder UP. Ich sehe, wie manche einfach allem ausweichen, und ich sehe wie manche einfach sterben. Bisher sieht es danach aus, als wenn es Spieler/Situations abhängig ist

Sounds like you are biased, too. I'm just more realistic, I look at all ships. You mention some advantages of submarines, without considering the disadvantages, which is very One-sided just like: Is a Ferrari not OP? They have so many horse power and speed? Well, yes, that is maybe good, but they are expensive and not pratical in normal life, so maybe it's not good? ;) or Are BB not OP? They have massive ranges like 26km and huge Alpha-dmg salvos, they can oneshot any ship! (Lets just ignore the slow speed, reload, dispersion :3) If you don't get the pro and contra right, then it's pretty obvious, that it looks like the side you chose. But also you got a mistake. Armor doesn't get ignored, the damage gets raised, when hitting citadel with double ping active. I personally think, that their speed migh be a few knots too fast overall. But that T10s have kinda same surface as dive speed is even realistic, the ratio is more or less same, unlike older submarines. If they are too fast and need balance, then it would proably happen in a same ratio. Like 28 knots surfaced and submerged. Type 11 submarine had surfaced 15.3 knots (diesel), 17,9 knots (E-motor), 18 knots (both engines). Type 11 submarine had submerged 16.5 knots (E-motor) I would assume, that submarines move with diesel on surface to load the battery. So they are submerged actually faster, than surfaced. How is it in this game? Same. So it's perspective of the ratio of surfaced/submerged speed. There is not only one direction. I'm just a bit more real. There should be ships with counters to submarines (Did I just said that? There should be ships, that do something to my poor submarine?), and some should not counter a submarine. It has 0 to do with "a ship did something to your poor submarine". It's the same like you would say. "Give all ships radar, oh, but god forbid a ships did something to your poor DD" Ships without counters to DD have to work around that disadvantage. Them as Ships without counters to submarines. And the citadel mechanic is actually something, that is not an advantage, it's a design. The alternate design is: -Hard hitting torpedos, that do always full dmg and get only reduced functions (torpedo belt). Instead we get more complex torpedos -Low hitting torpedos, do increased damage with homing (single ping), if hitting citadel, if double ping is active. You should know notice, while there is "Homing" and "increased damage" there are also 2x if. That's how you design and balance and not just. It's homing. Consider the conditions and disadvantages. Normal torpedos like IJN Torps always have ~20k damage. No ping needed, no counter DCP, no hit on the citadel needed. the max damage will be applied on bow, side and stern. Only the torpedo belt and HP depletion will decrease the damage. But reductions will be applied on submarine torpedos as well. If you want, we can also talk about, how homing can be a disadvantage, if you like. I am "biased" to submarines and I want WG implemented SS well. That means not broken, not op, not up.

Ich war gerade für Minuten auf Maximum depth und habe immer wieder mit Hydro einen Kreuzer angepingt. Ein Zerstörer blieb die ganze Zeit in meiner Gegner, und hat mich umkreist, hatte mich gewundert, warum der dauert so nahe bei mir bleibt Irgendwann hat der DCs gedroppt ,aber knapp daneben Schlussfolgerung: Pingen auf Max Depth scheint einen Mini-Map spot oder highlighting zu verursachen, während man aber ungespottet bleibt. deswegen hat der DD verfehlt und nicht meine genaue Position getroffen

Das ist an sich ne gute Skillidee. Andererseits sehe ich kein Problem damit, wie es ist Hast du 2 Kreuzer, dann spammen die dich mit HE zu, du brennst. Hast du stattdessen 1 Kreuzer und 1 Uboot. So kannst du mit einem DCP den Torpedoschaden verringern und Feuer entfernen. Aber in jedem Fall hat man 2 Gegner, die beide in der Lage sind, Effekte auf das Schiff zu bringen, die DCP entfernen kann

Ja, aber darum geht es ja, die Zita Treffer sind gefährlich (wobei für einen DD sind auch schon normale Treffer gefärhlich, aber die haben auch keine Zita) Ein BB kann den gelenkten Torpedos sogar ausweichen, bei Kreuzern ist das glaube schwieriger. Je nach Schiff wird die Lenkwirkung bei bestimmter Reichweite deaktiviert, dadurch können BBs besonders leicht ausweichen, weil die einen großen Sicherheitsbereich haben Ich meine, die treffen auch an der Oberfläche. Aber ist auch ein großes Risiko. Soweit ich weiß funktioniert Nebel ganz normal, sowie auch das spotting und alles. Allerdings sollte das Sub-Hydro die Schiffe im Nebel highlighten Da gibt es keine Extra-Mechaniken, Subs verwenden die gleichen wie Schiffe in der Beziehung. Man kann als Sub auch in einem Nebel pingen, ohne den Ping-Malus auf Tarnung zu bekommen Das mit der Erkennungsreichweite finde ich aber ein spannendes Konzept, das die Uboote eben nicht so "gut" im spotten sind Ja, BB ist solide. Aber auch FR DD + Sub ist stark. Der FR DD kann den schäwcheren DD auschalten und dann mit Hilfe der Sub-Hydros auch noch das Gegner Sub ausschalten. Der FR DD ist auch schnell genug und schwer zu treffen.

DCP - Damage control party, Reperaturmannschaft (R) oder so Der Dauerping macht gar nichts. Es geht um die Torpedos. Die müssen "gecountert" werden. Wenn das Sub alle Torpedos gleichzeitig abfeuert, was vermutlich häufig der Fall sein wird, wenige Sekunden vorher DCP benutzt. Dadurch verschwindet der Doppelping und kann nicht erneuert werden. Falls die Torpedos treffen, können sie nicht die Zitadelle treffen, weil kein Ping drauf ist

wouldn't that be op? ^^ I mean, there must be a super damage reduction debuff on them, to make that work. Otherwise the BBs would just one-shot them all the time, unless they are not on maximum depth^^

Was that really a thing? I thought DCs would trigger by water pressure or something I think in theory that isn't an issue. As far as I know, ships have to move slowly to make hydro work. But in reality, I think it was just not necessary to equip BBs with that

A quite big irrelevant difference and rather an advantage. The alternative would be, that submarines get stronger torpedos, that can't hit citadells. BBs would get overall more dmg. But that doesn't matter -For each submarine, you will have one less potential Fire/Flood-spammer -You can counter not only incoming torpedo, but also combine that with existing fires. 1 Fire is active, and torpedos income ->both countered with one DCP. -Imagine DCP would remove the possibility of getting AP-cita hits. Wouldn't you use it, if a BB gives you a dangerous broadside? I'm not sure, what the initial point was, but the DCP gives the player options. Even as submarine, I use it a lot for countering subs. You might noticed, if you watched the replay. I would play more surface ships without ASW for testing. But submarines are actually too much fun right now. Also playing ASW ships, hehe. But early hype. In all tests, I never noticed, that any surface ship is now fcked. Especially not BBs in the latest tests. And as I said it many times. The threat of DD and SS is quite similar. Both stealthy hunters. But against both tactics exists. I also see a lot submarines depleted in dive cap. Especially in a german vs USN sub battle can that happen, when the german goes for depleted the USN with the consumable. As far I remember, I depleted mostly in fights, that were rather intense. And in fights, were one side was more stomping, it was less depleting. (T6) Because a large number of ships is faster. And even if you don't take the max speed numbers, you might also consider the play style. Now turrets, submarines mostly heading towards enemies and need to turn 180° High depends on the situation, but you don't get the point, how ASW planes work and how shells work. Because that is the important thing. Going with "what if a DD is spotted at 6-7km. Is just something, you can't talk about What is spotting? a DD? Thats a gun fight, what will happen? Both DDs shoot each other. That's quite similar to subs. Are multiple cruisers at 6-7 km? Sure, it might be dead. but guess what, that are multiple "counter ships" Cruisers are often good in killing DDs. BBs? They might do no dmg, or kill it, very different. But in case of ASW planes -> Sub gets spotted and everyone in 13km range will drop ASW planes. -They dont need to have their guns reloaded. -They can launched over islands -Turrets don't need to turn. -> It's and almost instant action A DD can still survive, if ships are not all already focusing the DD It was a miracle, that I survived that. two BBs dropped me, though only 2 flights and all in one line. I had luck, because I noticed them very early, I took only 30% dmg. If all get ASW, they just can spam the whole area. And well, those 2 bbs had not all ASW flights reloaded, I think, I couldn't spot the planes long enough, because I had to maneuver out This is only a 7v7, in a 12vs12, the spam would be massive. It would, just doubt, they will do it. They rather don't give ships, that had DCs, than giving DCs, that have no DCs, it seems Historically and world of warships don't match. Historically, a 30 knot moving ship might not find a submarine, because of too much engine noise. I think to find submarines, ships moved around 10-12 knots. Something like that The thing how I see historically stuff: It's very cool to have them, but never and argument against something. Or maybe we play a game. If a single DD could smoke up close by an enemy fleet and start melting BBs and torp them, do you think, BBs were worth building? They noticed that with aircrafts, but they wouldn't even start building them, when DDs are already a counter. I don't see a point in that analogy Why would say sit on operating depth, when he is in an effective range anyways? How many ranked games did you play, if I may ask? Sounds like a BB vs DD encounter. A BB can't also do nothing against a DD. He can move towards it, can move away from it, hide behind islands. Same like against an SS. Don't know why that is an issue, maybe because you can actually see the submarine, because it's too slow for running away like a DD? But that is actually the point, while DDs can run away a submarine can't . A submarine is played around the depth. But as I said many times before: I don't see a point in giving every ship counter-weapons/measurements. It's still more like an Radar, then just "main armament". ASW is to counter a specific scenario like Radar. Both gives your the ability to attack in a situation, where you normally can't attack. Radar is a counter measurement Main armament is not a counter measurement itself ASW armament is not main armament, but a counter (armament/measurement ) The purpose is same like a radar -> to counter something. Eh why? That makes no sense. 30 knot bbs vs 40 knot DDs. Why would a DD move into his <6km spotting range? There are only two reasons -potatoes, who have no idea about the game -Miscaluclation of the situation In general a DD should be in control of the situation. if he messes up, is not an argument. Submarines can also mess it up. When I play DD, I almost never go into spotting range with a BB, unless I go for a yolo run. xD What is the thinking process here? DD: "Oh there is a BB hat 8 km. Should I move around with speed boost and torp the BB, or should I move below 6km into my spotting range, what shall I do, what shall I do...?" Not ineffective. The DD might blow the BB up. Also not very inefficient, because that's what DDs do, they don't go into their spotting range, unless they have the control over hte situation. But I wouldn't try that with a submarine neither, the difference is, that the air-concealment kicks in, and it will be harder to see other enemies. The submarines are often slower, except T10. There are many disadvantages. Yes, for ships, that are not supposed to counter subs. Similar to many BBs against DDs. Thats what I said. The higher speed is not only seen an "maneuverbility stat", but also as "sustain stat" But I don'T see an issue, why a submarine should be able to use the dive cap to play against ships without counters. That's what we have against DDs in a BB. That's why I actually dislike matches without CVs, when I'm in a BB: Because when my DD dies, then I'm pretty fcked, if not the enemy DD is somehow stupid. Mostly I can only run away and hope not getting torped in a bad angle. I dont have Radar against that nor I can really run away form high speed ships. (especially not as an IJN player, hehe) Having not ASW on all ship has also a very big advantage for ships. Some ships increase in value, some lose in value. For example Petro. No ASW. Des Moines no ASW. Stalin no ASW. many good Radar ships don't have ASW: Especially in CB this might mean, that more ship diversity is necessary. For me that is a very strong point . Oh no. I disagree here. Yes, submarines can have good positioning. Subs can do good plays. But in general subs are not very fast. It's compeltly different than BB vs DD. In that scenario, a BB can't run away. But against subs, it can work. They have similar speeds. Subs don't have 40-50 knots. Especially not on lower tiers and dived. But then, playing against the torpedo threat can be quite easy. I mean if the BB is at 5%, it's something different, but 100% hp vs 100% hp, a BB, that has some clue about submarines, will survive in many/most cases. People can always mess up, that's norma. Submarines have no turrerts, that means they need to point towards or away of them .That is alreay a restriction. While DDs are quite fast, they also can drop torpedos just by passing by. They can quickly choose between "turn in" or "turn away" Submarines h ave limited vision, that makes "turn away" even harder That's a wrong conclusion. I never said that. I consider ranges below ~14km as an inflexible fighting range. DDs can compensate that by their high speed. I consider speeds below ~31 knots as inflexible. BBs have that inflexible speed, but compensate that with high ranges. (on T10, also borders are not sharp, Balao is at the border to mid range imo, but 14km is still quite short) Imagine you give a BB 12 km range. Imagine giving a DD 30 knots. The default ships in their branch will become very weak. because they lose influence. Reminder: It doesn't mean, that submarines are weak or useless, they only lack in the ability to adapt to situations easier, than others. (Reason, why DDs and CVs are influencial aside other effects) No absolutely not. Try to sink a BB with no pings. I wanna see, how long that will take xD Also I think the torps have a low flooding chance, don't they? I mean the dmg buff did something, but the point is not understood. You want the maxium output. So you will go for pings. That comes with disadvantages. Also ships can counter the maxium just by using DCP. Or by maneuvering. I'm pretty sure, that some super unicum will figure out, to make 100% Torpedo dodges against submarines. In what angle and when to turn, so it will awalys miss. The thing is. homing torpedos will always be very predictible. The direction will be known, the torpedo spread will narrow towards the pinged spot. I'm not sure, if you have played ranked, but hitting a BB is actually pretty difficult. It's easier to go for cruisers or Dds or other subs. Though DDs might dodge as well. Also: -7800 dmg torps or even lower is not a very strong torpedo -Higher damage only with double ping AND only whe nthe citadell is hit -A shima torpedo will awlays hit with ~20k. The shima has already max dmg on the torpedo. It will do 20k in the nost, it will do 20k in the side. Only torpedo reduction reduces the maximum So it's not an advantage, when submarines get their max dmg only, when they fulfil many conditions. That's the counter balance to "homing", becuse guess what, if those torpedos would do 20k dmg without any conditions, it would be broken. Even without the speed buff, wecould revert the speed buff to ~50-60 knots, it would be still broken Yes, I see it as unfair, when alls ships get coutner against a specific ship type. Similar if we would get Radar on all ships. I mean, why not, we could just make it weaker... on the other ships... ^^ Why would it be fair. Btw, it's not seen from the moon, if the sub is dived. It will get air-concealment... If a ship is bad against a specific other ship type, why should that 1vs1 be fair? Why would a GK vs Des Moines fair? Alsmost all BB vs Cruiser 1vs1 will be won by BB. Though we don't go with any BB vs any Cruiser, it's even more spicy. We go with no-ASW BB vs stealth vesse. That means a ship from a ship type, that lacks in counter-measturements against a ship, that is already in andvatange (more or less) Vs DD it would be "unfair", and vs submarine it should be unfair. In both cases are still possibilities, but no counter measurements Because of the issues giving every ship a counter measurement

Hätte ich das mal vorher gewusst v_v

Hmm, mal ein paar Kernmechaniken, die wichtig zu Wissen sind: (ist bisschen viel geworden, aber denkt so ziemlich alles ab) Generelles Uboote haben Tarnwerte wie Zerstörer Geschwindigkeiten eher wie Schlachtschiffe Kampfreichweiten wie Zerstörer Sie sind daher relativ inflexibel (langsam und geringe/mittlere Reichweite), solange sie keine strategische Position einnehmen Torpedos haben relativ wenig Schaden sind sehr schnell sehr schlechte Tarnwerte (10s Reaktionzeit) Torpedos können aber verfolgen bei 2 pings die Zitadelle treffen und so einen Schadensboost bekommen (etwa doppelt so viel Schaden) Die Verflogung der Torpedos hängt auch von dem Schiff ab. Gerade erst abgechossen haben sie ~100 oder 200 meter keine Verflogung. Und kurz vor dem Ziel scheinen sie auch die Verflogung zu verlieren. Bei Schlachtschiffen verlieren sie die Verflogung besonders fürh, sodass ein Schlachtschiff sie auch ausweichen kann. Meine Erfahrung ist: BB können relativ leicht ausweichen (nicht immer), Kreuzer eher schwer, DD mittelmäßig. (nur meine Erfahrung!) Tauchstufen Oberfläche Max Geschwindigkeit DD-Tarnwerte (5.6-6km etwa) Tauchkapazität wird erneuert Granaten von Kanonen - ja Wasserbomben - ja Radar - ja Hydro - ja Periskoptiefe Max Geschwindigkeit Gegen-Flugzeuge-Tarnwerte (~2.5km etwa) Tauchkapazität wird verbraucht Granaten von Kanonen - ja Wasserbomben - ja Radar - ja Hydro - ja Operative Tiefe Langsame Geschwindigkeit auf niedrig Tier, schneller auf hohen Tier Gegen-Flugzeuge-Tarnwerte (~2.5km etwa) Tauchkapazität wird verbraucht Granaten von Kanonen - nein Wasserbomben - ja Radar - nein Hydro - ja Maximale Tiefe Langsame Geschwindigkeit auf niedrig Tier, schneller auf hohen Tier 0-km Tarnwert Tauchkapazität wird verbraucht Granaten von Kanonen - nein Wasserbomben - ja Radar - nein Hydro - nein Besonderheit: Uboot ist blind. Uboot-Hydro kann andere Uboote spotten, und Schiffe "highlighten". ANDERE Uboote können 2km nah-Spotten. Anmerkung: Sobald ein Uboot abtaucht (ab Periskoptiefe) gelten ANDERE Tarnwerte für Schiffe. Alle Schiffe wenden ihre "Flugzeugtarnwerte" an. Ein Zerstörer mit etwa 6km Tarnwert, bekommt gegen ein abgetauchtes Uboot einen ~2.5km Tarnwert. Ping Der Ping verschlechtert die Tarnwerte auf 4km, auch abgetaucht. Ausnahme ist die maximale Tiefe. Hier kann es zu besonderen Ereignissen kommen: Ist ein Uboot auf Periskoptiefe, dann hat das Uboot etwa einen 2.5km Tarnwert. Aber auch Zerstörer bekommen dann gegen das Uboot Tarnwerte von 2.4-2.6km. Also kann ein DD auf 3 km unsichtbar bleiben. WENN jetzt aber ein Uboot denkt, es ist alleine hier, und fängt an zu "pingen", geht der Tarnwert hoch auf 4km und wird von dem DD gespottet. Counter gegen Verfolgungstorpedos -Achte darauf, aus welcher Richtung du angepingt wirst. Je nach Schiff kannst du im Richtigen Moment abdrehen. -Evtl kannst du auch einfach wegfahren -Nutze Inseln, wenn du auf Inseln zusteuerst, kann es sein, dass die Torpedos gegen die Inseln fahren, weill sie einen "Bogen" machen müssen. Hängt von den Position ab -Allgemein machen Inseln es schwerer für ein UBoot, vorallem wenn du auf die Inseln zufährt. der Torpedo weiß nicht, dass da eine Insel ist. -Die Torpedos machen besonders hohen Schaden, wenn Doppel-Ping aktiv ist und auch nur, wenn der Torpedo in die Zitadelle geht: Solltest du einen starken Einschlag befürchten, nutze DCP kurz davor, sodass das Homing weg-geht, aber auch vor dem Einschlag das DCP aktiv ist. Ohne den Doppelping, kann die Zitadelle nicht getroffen werden. Siehe auch:

In my experience it seems that BBs can dodge them quite easily, while cruiser struggle more and DDs might be fast enough for dodging. But only my perspective as submarine

Recht ineffektiv, wenn man so die Knoten messen will ;D WIr hatten so eine Dikussion eben im Discord, die Torpedos machen erhöhten Schaden an Zitadelle. Wie eröht ist schwer zu sagen. Was ich hatte was so 10k bis 12k pro Torpedo (die eigentlich nur ~7.8k oder so machen sollten max) Aber ja, ich hatte schon ein game, hätte fast 1vs4 gewonnen (mit 2 gegnerischen subs. Aber als ein Torpedo den DD hinrichten sollte, bin ich kurz vorher ausversehen auf das gegnerissche Uboote draufgetaucht xD zuvor zwei andere Schiffe erledigt) In einem anderen Game wurde ich auch schon billig mit Wasserbomben zerstört. Hat viel damit zu tun, wer spielt und in welcher Situation Das kann aber häufig dazu führen, dass die Torpedos verfehlen, wenn man eindreht. Deto war es aber nicht, das würde man im Kill-feed sehen

Es gibt DDs mit 32 KN auf T10? ;D Ja, Geschwindigkeit kann man evtl noch anpassen, aber es ist ja auch nicht so, dass nur weil man Geschwindigkeit hat, immer sofort wegteleportiert. Im Falle eines Angriffs möchte ein Uboot am liebsten frontal auf den Gegner zeigen oder leicht geneigt. Balao hat zwar auch gut Hecktorpedos, aber optimal ist es eben nicht,wenn man nur mit dem Rücken zum Gegner zeigt. Meine Erfahrung soweit ist, dass von Spiel zu Spiel anders ist. Sie fühlen sich wesentlich stärker an, als noch auf PTS. kann aber ach an den Bots liegen, die zu scjnell wegsterben.

Ja, ein Prinzip, dass ich unterstütze, erst verstehen, dann meckern, nicht anders herum, hehe Das Problem ist: Alle Mechaniken sind bis jetzt noch nichtmal aufgedeckt, z.b. wie ein SS erhöhten Zita-Schaden macht. Es gibt Videos dazu, auch von WG; aber die kratzen auch nur an der Oberlfäche. Von Youtuber usw haben vielleicht viele auch noch nicht die volle Ahnung (Ich selbst sehe mich als versiert an bei den Uboote, aber auch ich behaupte, dass ich nicht alles weiß) Am besten ist, du fragst einfach, wo es Probleme gibt, und man spricht die Mechaniken mal durch. Denn letzten Endes müssen wir das alles nach und nach einfach lernen Wenn du jetzt z.b. sagst, dass du nur DD spielst, oder BB, wie du da was machen willst, dann kann man das durchdiskutieren (Ich nenne es diskutieren, da wir eben noch alle relativ neu zu den SS sind)

Should be quite easily to understand. But I can rephrase something, if someting is not clear. Statement: There is one speed coeffiecient in this game code for all ships. Evidence: Q&A with S_O (5.22 factor) Statement: The higher speed on submarines is not part in the coefficient. It's a ship stat. A value of the ship itself. Evidence: Look in the port, there is that stat, like all the other ship stats. But not the coeffiecent included. That stat is set around 30 knots for Balao. That are two arguments. I told you those earlier. If you ignore arguments and say, "there are none". Then I can't discuss with you. Now I'm actually wondering, if I get trolled xD I was literally mentioning the facts (even though I picked the wrong number), while you came up with selfmade calculations for the factor for realistic speed to ingame speed. Just because you calculated the difference, the factor, doesn't mean, that we have that calculation in the game code. That's not a fact. But how is it a personal opinion, when I say, that the 5.22 is the coefficient in WoWS? I quoted it, that is not my opinion Otherwise @YabbaCoe could you get us the explanation, how the speed is set in the game? Has a submarine like balao 30 knots in the game code. or is there a calculation behind it about [Balaos historically speed] x [Balance factor] = 30 knots? Not a claim, a fact. It's literally said by the Devs, just read it. The number doesn't even matter, my statement was about, that there is a specific coefficient and not a cofficient for every single ship. This has nothing to do with the discussion. It doesn't matter, what speed they head irl. It's about: Except it is not. Are you saying, that the 5.22 is not the same for all ships, like the Devs said? Can you proof that? My proof is the Q&A and some common sense. As I said, you can caculate your own personal factor in your own calculation with the 5.22 coefficient, the realistic speed and the ship stat. But that is not the Coefficient in the game in this game code. I highly doubt, that they have that cacluation and your calculated factor as "speed coeffcient" in the programm code. I'm not even sure, if you can call a coefficient coefficient, when it's variable. I'm not a mathematic

No, you just calculate a factor. You can do that, but that's not the ingame coefficient. Read number 4 You will see, that your Yamato moves 27 knots. But physically it moves ~3.5 faster of these 27 knots You will see, that your Balao moves ~30 knots, but physicall it moves ~3.5 faster of these 30 knots That is the coefficient, that is applied on all ships, when you go into a battle. I'm very sure, that in this game is no calculation, that has in the game code: [historically, realistic speed] x [ship specific coefficient] If you say, that is the case, please show me a source, where it is shown in the code, or a developer says that. Aside, that a developer already said, that there is a 5.22 factor relative the baliistic meter.

I see a difference between homing torpeods and non-homing. But the thing is, I see advantage, but also disadvantages. I'm not a fan off these comments like "they are homing, so they are op" thing. I played now subs in the ranked with the fast speed. Guess what, many torpedos missed the BBs, they only need to turn. My current accuracy with torpedos is 27%, and well, they are homing ^^ My experience is, that cruisers seem to struggle to avoide them. Or generally, if a ship does a missplay of course That makes no sense at all. You use DCP for damage reduction. How does it matter, if that is a fire from a DD or cruiser, or reduced damage + flood immunity from a SS? Maybe I'm not clear enough Scenario 1 Cruiser and SS attacks BB. Cruiser spams HE. maybe gets a fire, maybe not. But Torpedos income, and he can't dodge, because potato or panic, so he DCP the cit-damage. Torpedo dmg reduced, immune to floods and HE spam fires Scenario 2 Cruiser and DD attacks. Cruiser spams HE. maybe gets a fire, maybe not. But Torpedos income, and he can't dodge, because potato or panic, and takes a flood. DCP the flood and maybe fires. There are 2 enemies in both scenarios, and both can cause effects, that could need DCP. Where is the issue? Don't get the argument here, submarines are the slowest ships with the BBs in this game. Some BBs are slower, some are faster, so we can say, they are around the same speed. Are BBs now fast ships? No. DDs are the larger threat against disengaging BBs. Subs struggle to reach them, especially if the BB is faster. But then, being 1-3 knots faster makes no difference. The T6s have also only around 15 knots submerged. If he is surfaced, he can be shot. Yes, because it's a very similar scenario like against DDs, though I assume DDs are harder to fight, because Submarines lack in mobility and flexibilty. And the maximum is very unlikely. In what scenario is no ASW ship available, and a submarine has full Div Cap? That must be a scenario, that is pointless anways. Mostly a submarine loses divecap by random spottings, how the ping mechanic works, submarine hydro etc. If a T10 has too much, than it's a balancing issue of the DivCap, not of the ASW. I don't agree, that all ships should get counter against Subs, but not against DDs. The scenarios are very similar, in case a BB is alone against a DD or SS. In both cases they can stay invisible and try to hunter the BB down. But the thing is, submarines are not that good against BBs. Not saying, that subs can't hit them hard, but the homing works not very good against them. That is a pretty bad analogy, because the cases are different and I'm not sure, if you know, how the ASW planes work. ASW planes drop bombs, those cause splash damage. Shells don't cause splash damage. Submarines are quite slow, compared to other ships. DDs are quite fast, compared to other ships So you have a weapon, that can hit easier (splash dmg) a slower target vs Shells, that need to hit accuratley vs a fast target Do you notice something? Huge splahs on slow targets? Easy aiming on easy targets Pinpoint hitting on fast targets? "Difficult" aiming on difficult targets That multiplies. I already told it: You will have a submarine spotted. It has to be close, because the combat ranges are around 9-14 km. Submarine is close, and now, if all ships get ASW planes, that have no DCs. Then they will instantly all drop their ASW Planes on them. That is such easy kill. But if a DD is spotted on 10-14 km, and ships shoot, is that always an easy kill? Well, I don't get always instantly killed, just because I got spotted. So I doubt that. That is a similar case of DD vs DD. If the own DD is bad, then BBs struggle, unless there is no Radar ship around. Funny enough, you brought the point "But then we push the DD and he loses effectiveness. Well, you force a Sub to operating depth, then the sub is useless as well? He can't see there. Only hydro pings, but the hydro is not spotting, only highlighting (it spots down there only submarines). But he also needs hydro, thats a consumable Yes, submarines need to be close, because they don't have high ranges. It happens quitly easily As I mentioned earlier, shells are different than ASW planes. On 13km it's easy to drop ASW planes. But hitting shells not. That's why there is such a difference... You could also ask me, if I hit torpedos on a BB at 20km range and same for shells. Well shells I do hit quite often on 20km , torpedos less. But that doesn't matter, ASW, torpedos and shells are different armament types. That what "kinda" work, but I still think it's unfair. Also not saying, that this game is super historically accurate, but as far as I know, they don't give DCs on ships, they don't have those. But don't quote me on that. just my current knowledge. Actually noticing ASW planes is not always that easy, but also they are quite fast, they just got a speed buff. While you set your rudder, almost the half time is over of the approach, if you noticed them late, you are probably already dropped. My experience with ASW planes is, if the user is not predicting the course of the submarine correctly well, he will rather miss. There is not much space for the submarine to dodge those. If a sub does that, then we are back for effectiveness. I don't understand, why it's so easy for a BB to push an invisible DD away and makes him "ineffective". But forcing a submarine for minutes to Maxium depth is effective for the sub. Always when a ship forces me to dive like that, then it's a "crap, I'm useless now and can't help my team" A DD still can spot, drop torps etc. Is that true? I can't check it. Though Salmon would be faster than the T10s, interesting. Maybe it's an error by Wargaming T6s. Both submarines 25 knots. ~15 knots submerged. 26 ships of 33 ships are faster. Only 2 ships are at 21 knots. But that are only 4 knots difference and only surfaced. In case of T6s, they are at the bottom speed. Also for T10s, 30 Knots is BB speed level. Some BBs are faster, some are slower, some have that speed. Are BBs fast ships in this game? So, that's an interesting arguing. On the one had you are saying, that they are like 12 minutes under water. But on the other hand, they use a skill, that works only with depleted DivCap? I wouldn't even think, that submarines actually take that skill. I don't But then, T6 and T8 should be submerged actually slower. Also my explanation for that high speed is ,that with every tier, ships get more stats. The problem is, that submarines don't have a "sustain" stat, unless you don't buff them with huge amounts of HP. But there is no armor or anything, So speed is actually a defensive stat. That's what I could imagine. DDs are low range, same as SS. Though DDs are more versatile here. They have low range up to high range (20km trops or mid range guns). That depends on the DD. But as a very generalized statement, I would count them to "low range",even if they have some high ranges. A right to left turn and torpdos might all miss without using DCP even. Even a high speed Mutso can dodge easily. She turned right and all missed. All missed. I think the Mutsu example is okay enough? Though maybe it's my homing-skill ,that I turn guide them well enough ;D Still on the slower side, BB speeds, mostly. Especially in the case of T6. This shitty speed skill, then a BB can also take the shitty speed skill, since we assume, that the submarine is on maxium depth for being save, the BB will be invisible and very fast. Maneuverbility takes also speed into account. At least it's what WG is defining it. And that's what I'm takling about. They are low range, slow speed -> Inflexbile. They don't have 20km ranges, they don't have 40 knots or higher. Don't say, they are bad, just not saying, they are broken op and they have disadvantages. Non-homing has the diadvanatge of having only tight spread but also reduced damage. (to be more correct: They don't have increased dmg) Yes, that's a mechanic I like, the play with the concealment. And I like the idea of good concealment on periscope depth and with ping 4km, that gives avery spicy gameplay, when the submarine pings without being away of a DD. Overall the concealment is good, but some DDs can play around it. Beside that, the concealment gets better for surface ships, when submerged. Depends. Submarines can also easily get killed. So really depends. Similar to a smoke for a DD. DDs can get killed there, or not even get touched Happend to me, also happend to other subs. I almost won a 1vs4 vs two submarines, a DD and cruiser I guess. Both enemy subs had no DivCap, that was my advantage Watch that replay, please, I did a huge mistake, but when I realize, I was just "[edited]it, hope it won't happend" when I die Here the replay: Also, it seems that the homing torps are pretty strong against cruisers. Or my cruiser enemies were just bad. Hard to tell. But against BBs, it's very hard to hit them, unless they fxck it up Watch it slow, there are also funny torpedo beats And the end - I was about to hit the DD, in case you missed that, but I derped ps: I 'm mostly not complaining, it's rather discussing. There are only a few things I complain about, like the choice how they decided about the aircrafts on the Carriers (J5N on Haku ), or the power armor on russian ships

Think they could be a bit closer, maybe.

The coeffiecient is 5.5 applied on the 30 knots of the ship stat We don't have a conversion coefficient from realistic speed -> in game speed. It's a ingame stats times the 5.5 coefficient.

It would be a pointless change. Unlogically. It's like you would add a Fuel-consumable. You start with 0 Fuel, but when you press the consumable, you get 20 mins fuel. Would be totally pointless consumable xD Then explain me the speed coefficient. What is the speed coefficient for all ships, planes, torpedos in this game. And what is the speed coefficient for all submarines. As I said, you mixed up some terms/values. But you are ignoring most of my explanations, reading only half if not less, and then claiming false things, quoting me wrong, and when I confront you with the false claim, you keep ignoring them. Saying "Oh, you wouldn't understand". If you don't start to actual discuss, it's pretty pointless. I add all the time references, but those get ignored all the time. I see, how those not get quoted. I'm not going to, and I already have.  ^that's not a proof Just saying Except I didn't. ;) I mean, probably you mean it "right", but you used wrong definitions. Guess that's the issue You are wrong. You just keep missing the point, and while being in that wrong believe, you think I don't accept it. You said, that the speed coefficient is diffrent for submarines. I told you, that is not the case, every ship has the factor 5.5 I told you, you are talking about the ship stats, not the speed coefficient. The ship stats are for submarines higher, than irl. I said that very early, I quoted it multiple times, please understand that I also explained you, why submarines have higher speed stats. I did that yesterday, I quoted it for you today. I told you, that DDs mostly have way higher max speeds, than irl. Kleber is the extreme example. I told you, that also planes are extremly slower, than irl. Except it is not.  Proof it. What is the speed coefficient of Submarines? Yes, and my answer was. If it's for you immersion breaking, fine. For me it's less immersion breaking than a chaotic pvp battle with Kremlins, Smolensk, Super-Yamatos and BB-melting DDs. You quoted me initially. You said, it's your personal preference. I said, that is okay. But that is not my personal preference, and I gave examples why. Nothing more, nothing less. No idea, where is the context here? Up to you, as I said way earlier. And while I can accept your decision, you might accept my decision. And since this is a discussion, it's obvious, that I explain my statments. I don't see, why that is an issue. Though what I can't agree with, if there discussion becomes personal, while ignoring the acutal statements. My person has nothing to do with a statement. When I say 1+1=2, then it doesn't matter, who I am. The statement is still correct. And that's what is so annoying in forums, when people go for personal discrediting, instead of actual arugments. When I go with Statement + argument + explanation/proof Then I expect Counter-Statement + Counter argument + proofs for that But what I mostly get "No, you wrong" "No, you lying" That is really no argumentation, and many seem not to understand that.

I think your issue is to distinguish between the speed coefficient and ship stats. You messed it up by mixing two different values. All ships have the 5.5 coefficient for speed, as far I know. That is value type 1 Ships have stats in game like speed. Yamato has 27 knots, Balao in game has 30 knots. That is value type 2. Value type 2 differs in case of Balao from the real value. While many other ships have more accurate value. BUT all ships have the same coefficient. I also was mentioning, that many other ships also reach values, that are not realistic. Planes are way slower. DDs are mostly all faster in their max speed. Maybe because it's an arcade game? Here: I tryed to show, that this is not a "WG" thing, but an issue in games. In (probably) every submarine game, you will have some way to skip the long waiting times of a submarine. By boat speed increase, by time speed increase or what's so ever. That's a common design decision, not a "fancy" WG idea. I also said, that the submarines maybe should be a tiny bit slower. Though I think they still have to be faster than irl. dude. you said all the time, that it is your personal prefence. I quote you: As I said, that is your phrasing, that you bring up over and over again. And you keep going xD I'm not complaining. I'm just telling you, that not only subs have different speeds like irl. Saying, that increased speed on submarines is wrong, but increased or decreased speed on ships and planes is right. But this shows also, that you don't understand me, because you think, I'm complaining. No wonder, that you think, I have no "arguments", when I show up the facts of plane speeds, and ships max speed. If the consumables don't count, then give submarines normal speeds and super speed consumables with +10 knots. Easy solution. The sad thing is just, you seem still to ignore all my points and doesn't proof anything. All the points not answered: Proof it. Please quote me, where I said,