Pikkozoikum

It was easy before in the RTS? Many people just don't even try to fight properly in a CV match just liek this here: Nope, the old CV could drop the bomb load of the DBs of one squad and perma spot the DD, while striking other targets. The DBs can also heal up all the time just by leaving the AA. Also just recently I saw Farazelleth one shotting a DD by cross drop. Some DDs might be good against CVs, but some did nothing I ranked out with Shimakaze and Yamato, both ships are not known for being good against CVs, so no. Playing against CV is the same like playing against other ships, a lot knowledge is needed to be successful. I notice all the time, how bad many people play and making it actualy easier for the CV instead of harder.

It's not a lie, that many people don't know, how to fight in a CV match. Some don't even know, how the current CV version work, thus they do nothing against it and just wait to get nuked.

Well, that's the point, some people say, it's no difference, if a target is stationary, or a target tries to evade... The normal way to mitigate damage is angleing for most ships. And that's what you can do against CV as well. With RTS it don't work well, because the CV can attack from 3 or more directions at a time. The current version can only attack from one side, with way larger turning circles

Just go with the AA damage, I got multiple times 30k with the Shima. Doesn't matter, if there were fighters included, a full squad of fighters would be like 1k or 2k? So there was at least the damage for shooting down a full squad of strike planes or more. That was impossible with the Shima before and that's why I like the AA now. The AA had better states, but also worse states, I checked the aircraft shot down, the AA is somewhere between the numbers In terms of balancing, the player shouldn't play a huge role. Balancing should be about the weapon/tool/vehicle. In this case the ship. If we would only have one ship, it would be perfect balanced. If you know have players with different skill, the different players will archieve different results with a perfect balanced ships. So you can't take the skill of players in this case to account. I mean otherwise ships would get a malus, if played by a good player, and a bonus, if played by a bad player just to balance the ship with consideration of the skill.

I don't know what you mean

Hmm, not sure, but Gaishu is more max damaged focus, isn't he?

It's not a in depth comparsion, it just should show, that different game styles are possible. Also a Paladin can't charge a Warlock. Also a Warlock out ranges any charge. And I was not talking about Hunter. But you can also go with a PvP fight 2 dds vs 1 dd and healer. Healer is completly different than a DD and depending on the healer, impossible to get killed. At some Meta state, a healer was must have.

Ja, meine ich auch, aber es liest sich so. Da steht, das es nur zwei Tiefen gibt, aber nicht sicher was das meint, denn technisch gesehen gar es vorher auch nur zwei Tiefen, daher hätte sihc nichts gändert. Aber vielleicht meinen die auch nur ,dass die PeriTiefe jetzt eine echte Tiefe ist, und nicht durch einen anderen Button aktiviert werden muss für einen spezial Angriffszustand. Oder die Zusatztiefe durch das Consumable wurde entfernt. Darauf hoofe ich wenigstens, dass die Oberfläche uns erhalten bleibt

I wouldn't consider surface level as depth, but where is the change then? On beta we had Sufrace, presicope and deeper depth Or is that refering to the consumable with additional depth? Or the change, that persicope depth becomes a depth level instead of a special attack mode with an own button?

I know, but I just try to imagine, if the burst damage would be something manual aimed like a shell salvo, and when there is too much range in the game, there will be too many ships, that will shoot at the carry. The CV won't really be able to dodge that, because he can't focus on 5-6 ships at the same time, it would be purely rng for him, how he has to dodge something. At least I would assume that.

Hmm, yes though I wouldn't touch the range, or not too much then. Because CLs have already high ranges, it would become cancer for CVs, when many ships get 8 km range, and they all start now to fire their bursts on the Squads. We could create a no fly zone again, even if that is now skill based. Imagine 2 CLs could place their flak clouds with good aim into your squad xD Though that would be also a balacning issue, thus numbers could be tweaked to make it not too op

In the first 4 minutes, idk, can be pretty tough, not sure if this happens often without some flooding luck. I do the most damage in the late game, instead of the first 4 minutes. That reminds me on a match yesterday, when I played Asashio and I completly destroyed a BB (100% hp) with my first double salvo of torps xD

Guess both can happen. But there will be also smart players, who know how to play. I mean such cases you have with every ship type. That has nothing to to with any ship, it has something to do with the attitude of a player

If that means, no surface level for submarines, then I dislike that change. I want the submarine on the surface, but also I want be able to use the deck guns.

Yes, that's why I said "That can't happen now with the rework" :) I was comparing game mechanics, those are different now and imo better. You have to go with the full context. The statement was " AA was actually still useful without Def AA during RTS. " I said, that depends on the ship, because we had AA-extremes. Thus I come up with the example, where a group of AA weak or average ships get completly deleted, even grouped. Which shows, that AA is not useful, if not a good AA ship. Then I also said, that this won't happen with the rework, because if you go with Nagato+Tirpitz+Myoko in a group, a Lexington won't archieve any results closely to that (I think it was a Lexington back then, but we could also go with Shokaku, since the AP bombs are now on IJN ships) So if you go with total damage and comparison, I guess the numbers are not that different, but I see no issue with that. Total damage can differ. If you do 70k damage on one ship with one approach, or doing 20k on one BB, then 40k on another BB, and 10k on a cruisers is still the same total damage, but a destroyed ship, doesn't do damage, while 3 damaged ships still fight and heal. So even if the Total damage is same, the effective total damage isn't

High damage, when a full HP BB gets deleted with the first wave. And a second full HP BB with the second wave. In my described scenario, the best unicum wouldn't have the same effect like back then

"than before" guess what, AA is also stronger than before, depending on what patch you look.

Druid was often for years OP in PvP :D But I would actually try to balance it. I would go firstly with the interaction between surface ship an CV - The manual burst damage has to be manually aimed and has a flight time, lets say 1s for 1km. That means at 6km it has 6 s flight time, and if the target is really close, it would have 1-2s flight time, but the sector reinforcements would be useless. The manual burst damage would be visually just one flak barrage like all the ships have. A ship with 4 flak clouds would also produce 4 flaks with the manual aim. Thus some ships would be better or worse. - Maybe remove the automated flak clouds. -You could add modules and skills, that change the sector reinforcement duration, because a long sector reinforcement means also, that you can rarely use your manual burst. But shortening the duration of secotrs means less DPS, so everyone could decide between automated and manual. Second step would be spotting. Strike planes can't spot for team. Recon planes - a new plane type can team spot. Has only 1 plane per squad and only 1k-2k hp. That means DDs and CLs counter Recon planes, because they get very fast shot down. But the Recon plane can spot BBs and CAs and will also get an "Attack run". this attack run is a special obersavation modus to mark targets and improve disperson, which also grains a special bonus dmg (similar like spotting damage) for the CV

The idea is not that stupid. In Steel Ocean were the higehst tier for Submarines T9, while others had T10. But actually the T10 CVs are in a not bad spot, while it seems, that the T8 perform way better than before. In the latest major CV change, some T8s got huge HP buffs, while the T10s are mostly unchanged, if not nerfed Though many are complaining about AP bombs, Guess they could change those, that the pen damage is relative higher, while the max damage is lower. Lets say max damage 18k instead of 25,5k, but than the pen damage could be 9k, or even higher at 12k. The CV would do over all more consistent damage with AP bombs, but less alpha heavy hits.

The rework didn't removed bad players from the game :-|

Depends on the ships and I'm not talking about T3 ships ;) AA was only useful on AA heavy ships. I remember, when I played Nagato, having a Tirpitz ~2 km around me and another cruiser. Then A CV approached and one shotted the Tirpitz. After that he came to me, one shotted me. xD That can't happen now with the Rework, the CV can't do that much damage in such short time, and when ships are grouped, they will also destroy planes, even with bad AA ships. Thus it takes even longer, to take 2 bbs down.

Their Trajectory can't be shot down midair, I guess? Is that an issue, I mean being out of ammo? I never played WoT a lot, but I can't remember to get out of ammo. But actually, it's always a question of which degree you compare something. Imo you can compare CV and Artillery as general play style of range artillery/support attack. But in a closer look you can't compare them really. Just like an apple and a pear. Both are fruits and can be compared as fruits, but going into detail, those are completly different. I don't see that as pointless, it's just more difficult because of more different variables. I remember, when Warcraft 3 got released. The races were so different for a strategy game and I was impressed, how they were able to balance that. I mean it wasn't perfect balanced, that's unrealistic but it was good enough. Other games also have really different playstyles. Heroes of the Storm for example, the Heroes there are really different. Take World of Warcraft, imagine you play a Melee character, and a Warlock casts DoTs on you, while you are in a melee fight. The Warlock is unreachable for you, out of range, and drains you HP slowly. Does that remind you on something? ^^

One strike won't kill the cruiser, 25k can happen, but bombs can also miss. And if the cruiser is completly stationary, well, those kinda deserve to get striked :P But also if he strikes the cruiser, I activate my AA as well, and when planes die, the Aiming throws off to the side, because the replacing plane is not in formation. Some drops will miss because of that. There is no guarantee, that the cruiser disappear suddenly, actually I mostly use my smoke for the stationary cruiser, that is around with me. With a CV around, I don'T have to spot a lot, I can stay safe, until I see a way to go closer for a Cap or torping something. Also it's important to watch the CV, where he goes. But in ranked, the own CV often places fighter around the DDs

I go with ranked, since that is mostly competitive and balanced, as DD you stay close around a crusier, thus fighters are now issues, because the cruiser will shot them down. You smoke only, if the CV will really go for you, but in ranked the good players are always in small groups and the CV can't just search around for a dd, because the AA will shred the planes. The Smoke is just the oh-crap-button. You can use that, when the cap is free and the CV wants go for you. Then you get a cap, and deny the strike. When the torpedo bomber come, you just move away, the cap should be capped and you are at full speed close to cruisers again, thus the torpedo bomber will be useless. Thats how I played ranked. I also did a few times 30k AA dmg with the Shima, mostly 10k-20k, but depends on the CV, if he is often around or not A CV never got me below 25%, They only took maybe 25%. Most issue were gun heavy DDs and Smols. They hurt. A combination of CV+Smol can be heavy yes. But this would be even harder, if it would be a RTS CV.