wilkatis_LV

Pretty sure it's about Conq being "too stronk overall" not just against BBs. Otherwise why is anyone even mentioning other ship classes here? Stop doing that if it's BB vs BB only Which was never a secret seeing how Conq has better concealment that other BBs and it's pretty much a BB intended for killing BBs. I... How... Yeah, I think you missed something. Ship A that is supposed to kill ships of type X is good at killing ships of type X. Please fix! Perfect sense, 10/10 F**ks sake, USE QUOTES. AND F-ING READ THEM. At least 3/4 if not more of my Conq games right now are in CB, and I simply don't play the game outside of CB that much right now Also "tiers that can meet it" aren't limited to "10", it actually includes 8s and 9s, maybe you have noticed that? 10 pages of people who aren't even close to playing Conq arguing that the ship is OP becuase they don't have the slightest clue how to deal with it Because we all know how high is the quality of gameplay on test servers... Maybe you should have tested the PA tie 9 DD when everyone had it on PTS so there was almost no other ship played? Those games really gave you a lot of insights how good the ship would actually be, didn't they? Or maybe test out the US CV changes when there is a "shoot down 40 aircraft" mission so EVERYONE and their mother was running AA builds? Much environment, such accurate I too can hop into a tier 10 DD after basically not playing them for 2 years and complain how bad that ship is, how useless it performs. Totally accurate assessment, aye? Can at least 1 of you maybe learn to read? Would be really nice for a change. YOU FIRE AP BECUASE THAT WILL CRIPPLE HIS HEAL. IF YOU WANT HIM TO HEAL FULLY THE SECOND HIS HEAL IS UP GO WITH THE HE. I really can not put that out any clearer, yet all of you still seem to fail to understand That's about citadels. I already said - asking for citadelling is either his own imagination or let him point me to the comment who said that. No, citadelling isn't a counterplay to any ship in the game. It's just a thing that can happen allowing you to do more dmg because you hit a critical area, that's it. Cruisers fault for being bad, I mean there is a reason why they aren't exactly the most popular class right now The same way as the original one wasn't -You're dealing with conq, thus go with what goes for him not what goes for something else. You're not going to aim for Amagis upper belt or Bismarks waterline jsut because it's a good idea to do so for the other one -Pretty sure you don't need him spotted from 20:00 to 00:00. Keep him lit up when it's needed and when you can. Same way as with any other ship - they won't be spotted 24/7, but when you need a ship spotted someone will have to go and do it -Lets run down your options in a BB -> Conq excells at killing BBs in a CA/CL -> Conq still is a BB, there are very rare cases when it's a good idea to 1v1 in such situation in a DD -> Torp him if you can, the torp belt is quite lousy. Tell me when it's a good idea to 1v1 a BB with a DD in a gunfight? Bet it's only in some very specific situation like "his guns are pointing all in the opposite direction" so take some shots while you can CV - I mean, if you're spotted any ship will wreck you, if you're not spotted - Conqs a bit of a tricky one because of that heal. He may have lost all of his AA but still be more or less healed to 100%. Also Conq is the first RN BB who doesn't tend to lose 90-ish % of his AA in 1 HE salvo. Usually takes 2 or 3 -When he pops his heal, from that moment you have at least 2min to go for. heal lasts 20s, but it obviously can stop healing before if it reaches max capacity. Lets say you have [1 or more] allies shooting Conq, and you see him popping the heal. Feel free to join in, you have 2 to 3 and-a-half min to kill him, depending on his consumables, flags, cpt skills (even if he has JD as cpt or not). And as I said before - if you are confident you can burst him down - go with whatever has the best potential for your class (AP for BBs, HE cor cruisers and probably DDs), if you don't think you'll burst him quickly enough - AP will make him pop the next heal later or inefficiently and simply heal less. And those other teammates - they can be as skilled or unskilled as you want, they are just extra for your plan there. I have 1v1'd Conq in an Amagi, but just because I didn't have anywhere to run and he was absolute potato. He kept screwing up his HE into my torp bulge doing no dmg, while my AP took good chunks out of him. And he definitely ran normal heal as in the 3...3,5-ish min it took me to get him down after he engaged me - he never popped a heal. But then again, I myself always say replay or it didn't happen, that's like 2 patches ago so I've definitely already deleted it. Guess it never happened, just my imagination Oh, yeah, another thing to the lason69 -> as I said, you'll get some more detailed explanations whenever I get to it. And expect most of them to be from ships like Amagi, Kii, Izumo and Missouri. Bismark's fun, but I don't think it can stand up to it.... And since I'm not really planing to play the Atago any time soon (unless I need it for a mission), I'm not even close to owning a tier 8 DD, and since NC is just another BB - your best hope is that I manage to collect ~17mil credits to buy Shokaku and Edinburgh to diversify the view angle. Why no 10s? Well, Conq vs Conq you probably wouldn't count and I really dislike the Yamato, she's just a worse version of the Izumo with a massive citadel weakspot and good gun caliber. The tradeoffs just aren't worth the extra gun performance you get, and hell, I expect the Musashi to be even worse. No hurry to get GK and US line... well, I'm just close to NC, it will take some time to get there

Aaand point me to where I said it's the classic stealthfiring? It's not. But it's still stealthfiring. Yes, you lack the "spot or myself" element, but then again... Wasn't Zao able to fire at targets while keeping his stealth? Pretty sure in most cases that Zao wasn't spotting for himself, if we look at those distances involved... And then you are back to "muh history lesson" - ARCADE GAME. History literally doesn't matter, it's just a nice background on which to base the game.

BB fires his main batteries in open waters with nothing obscuring the view between him and the other ship who is well within his firing range (up to almost 8km in case of Gearing & Conq) yet the BB doesn't get spotted. If that is not stealthfire - go ahead, explain what it is. Rather, give me the term of what it is. Because that BB is firing from stealth and staying stealthed, pretty much the definition of stealthfire

Highly debated The "earth is not flat" was used as one of the points to justify stealthfiring back when it was an actual thing, wasn't it? Yet didn't matter for an arcade game and its balance. Personally, I see some potential for this one if used correctly, but then again - I really dislike how it works. It's an arcade game not a reality simulator (*kmh* I can see through smoke *khm*) so why can't a DD spot me when I'm firing, just not see me on his screen? I still should be on his minimap, and those who are in range to have me rendered - should have it so

Would be nice if we actually got that shown as a stat somewhere This is actually interesting, that means that in a normal situation on Mountain Range in CB as long as I don't go too high in the H line (no higher than H9, maybe H8 as the vertical coord) in a normal case I can get 1st salvo off at the enemies literally for free without getting spotted. And managing that distance can let me keep it that way, literally whole new world. Ahh, right, then it's the +20% view range? That would set Gearing at 19.8km -> tier 10 cruisers can still get over that, not even speaking of BBs

Is it just me or am I saying it's going to take more shells instead of more damage from a single shell? But apparently for some of us the distinction is too small to see, good for you I guess So you admit that my point is true and deny it at the same time. Wait till your periods over and then come back, you clearly can't make up your mind right now even for just a few seconds It was your point that citadeling it somehow is counterplay to it. Haven't seen anyone claiming it, point me out to them if anyone actually said that Seeing how I never made any points about its maneuverability apart from something along the lines of "you can't just turn and run away, you're still a BB" - I'm pretty sure I'm sticking to my points here. Apparently you still haven't learnt the differences between "point blank" and "low range". You play DDs mainly by any chance? Can't be bothered to check, but that's the only class where those terms would mean more or less the same Read this one again and slowly. Do it 10 times. Maybe some of it will start to stick and you'll actually start to understand it Air detectability is 200m above Conqs surface detectability, and if you recall - I've already said that it should have been increased together with surface when it was increased to accent that it's still meant as the weakspot. But I've seen enough cases of you straight up failing to understand simple concepts so what's the chance you'll get this one.. Nerf Gearing becuase shima can't reliably 1v1 him Nerf whichever floating citadel can 1v1 other floating citadels becuase they can't reliably 1v1 him without taking huge dmg a.k.a. Oh no! There is a BB which is good at taking out other BBs! How horrible! How are the potatoes going to get over this?!?!?! This is so bad! Great logic right there buddy And Conq does suck at a job other BBs do really well - those sAP rounds do score citadels quite a bit less, not even talking about those who spam HE with no consideration letting cruisers live far longer than they should have. Here's a thing from Conqs playstyle that you as a professional Conq player totally know - never fight with the heal down unless you're shooting while running away. You'll never get it below 2min between 2 consecutive activations, and you have to already be running by the time the 1st one goes on cooldown. But surely, for a advanced and experienced Conq player like you who knows all bout how meaningless the cooldown is that will never be obvious, aye? Man, just LEARN TO PLAY Castle has the tactical advantage of having a wall, doesn't mean you have to climb over it if the gate is wide open. Against BBs, yes. Especially against those who are too "intelligent" to run concealment builds. Then again, remind me which BBs that the Conq meets don't have spotting aircraft? That would be Missouri and Conq itself. So yeah, sorry, your Missouri has no way to deny those few hundreds of meters Conq has over it, everything else CAN USE THE GOD DAMN PLANE Just one example: Learn to read. I said close range, and if you are in that situation not rush him. Is dyslexia a common thing in Conq haters? Or is it just fhe inability to differ between ranges? 2 major mistakes in just 5 words, impressive. If he can, so can you. Oh w8, your team saw a [mentally impaired person? will this still be censored?] rushing bunch of enemy ships alone and though "screw that guy, probably just a waste of perfectly fine oxygen anyway" Umm... Then.... quote it maybe? You... you kinda didn't, you know I have no clue what you are talking about. Frikin use quotes, they are here for a reason Unless there is a BB with the purpose of fighting other BBs which then should be better at fighting BBs than other BBs are. Again - go cry how you can't 1v1 other DDs in a gunfight with a Shima, much bad, such underpower And that QED You've proven exactly nothing here Will do when I'm playing tiers that can meet Conq outside of CB. But My guess is... "you were just lucky" "that doesn't happen" "you had support" and other crap like that from you in that case. So should I really bother? There's a good chance you wouldn't get it anyway Shew me where Shima was able to 1v1 a Khaba or a Gearing in a even situation (so no Shima player was unicum and the other one an absolute potato), go ahead do it. You're not supposed to 1v1 a Conq in a BB, but your thick head can't seem to get over this one point No, actually it shows you have impaired learning capabilities, as you fail to understand 1 simple point (well, multiple points actually, but this one in particular) So, you're on Ocean, it's a 1v1 between you and him - yeah, you're probably screwed unless he has no heals left. Other than that there usually are things like allied ships that make a convincing argument of "don't run after me" and islands in the way blocking the view and denying him shots on you. With islands you can even keep him spotted by popping your aircraft while he can't do that to you I find it interesting how in pretty much all situations Conq has his team around him & helping while you seem to be alone with no team whatsoever Almost like you're doing something wrong Explain me the logic of this one. This is exactly the kind of potato mindset I'd like to understand the thought process behind. Good morning Mister Center of the Universe, another one of "Conq has a team but I am solo", huh? Well then why are you the single target he can fire at? And no, she will not burn you with "single shots". First of all, assuming you are BB with some kind of fire prevention build Conq has an average chance to set you on fire of 1 in 4.9 shots. Others have the following: Yamato - 1 in 6.5 Montana - 1 in 6.4 GK - 1 in 6 So 1 hit difference on average, oh noooooo the horrific increase in the chance!!!!! The only thing that's confirmed is that you don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about

Riddle me this one Someone commented that I know nothing about CVs because my Zuiho WR was just 58.5% not over 60% so I decided to pad it a little. Sadly enough they have a competent Bogue, also enemies instead of yoloing solo have split in small groups, each of which has a storng AA ship like a Cleveland, so for most of the game didn't get to do much. Enemies are capping our base. With the help of a QE dealt with a Nurnberg and Warspite. Just the Leander left. try to find him: Ok, I know his last location, he hasn't moved since he set the smoke and I saw his tracers as he killed the QE. Just drop the smoke and he's done, then it's just the Bogue to sink and a Cleveland to lose all of my planes against. Oh w8, it's a tier 5, you can't drop smoke! Luckily enough his smoke runs out just as my 2nd TB returns to the group. DBs of course miss as always, that leaves just the TBs. But since you have no manual drops they drop so far away that even a BB can dodge them, not even talking about a CL. Do a typical crossdrop, but one squad decides to do some random circle before dropping, thus the timing is off. He dodges one salvo fully, barely takes 1 torp from the other. Good enough, cap reset. Planes rearming, he, of course keeps capping. Just as my planes are coming back into his range... Well take a f**king guess He smokes up, and this time his smoke lasts long enough to finish capping. NOTHING I can do about it, literally a "go f**k yourself" moment. So now I'd like to ask for some attention from people like @MrConway @Sub_Octavian @Tuccy I'd like to extend a massive thank you to WG from the enemy team for completely undeserved way to win a game. And as a P.S. to their thank you message I'd like to add a middle finger from me. This is just ridiculous, it's literally removing even the chance of fighting back.

Should get tested. So I've show that Gearings range is probably around 16km, with that it would be " +50% to range of assured acquisition of enemy ships" a.k.a 24km which tier 10 BBs (or tier 9s and some 8s with spotting aircraft and of course Fuso) can outrange Would be nice if we actually got that acquisition range as a stat somewhere instead of having to calculate it off of the minimap Cyclones are a special case. And yes, obviously requires a spotter. And no, there are no ships (anymore) with vision range lower than their own firing range As I already showed in the first clips - as an example in CB if I know where the enemy DD is expected to be I can keep my distance far enough to fire at their cruisers without giving away my own position in open waters There's nothing obscuring the view, thus the LoS is there. Just that his view range is limited Yeah, after all the bs that WG has done to push BBs into camping and borderhuging go blame something like this for it

Never said it, address it to the windowlicker who thinks that is true. Noone who has any understanding of the game would claim it As I said - keep letting me full heal with your HE, I really don't mind Yeah, go around just citadelling ships like Bismark, DerGrosse and GK. Another windowlicker statement Also science says there is a DD with better stealth than otehr DDs and there is a cruiser with better detection than other cruisers. What a surprise... yet it's still a BB so it maneuvers like a brick You forgot the close range part Interesting how you failed to remember those points which I tried to hammer into you: AP pens means he heals less Air detectability Don't 1v1 him unless there is no other option Heals cooldown But once f-ing more - if you don't get it by the time this thread has reached 10 pages you probably won't get it anyway

But no 100%, that must be horrible!

I think those are the exact key words there. Go learn a bit more before coming to cry here. Who knows, maybe within 5 years time you'll understand

*edited*

Hey! I do hope at least 1 of you uses Forums and either has replays enabled yourself, or can relay this to clanmates who are mentioned here and have replays Doing this one before the actual bugreport, just to exclude the possibility that you could actually see the BB, just that the game wasn't showing the BB the "spotted" icon So, short description - yesterday (7th December) in 2 games - vs CALM and vs FAM_A - there was a BB firing his main batteries from Adrias side while a DD from your side was within range and without obscured LoS, yet the DD didn't spot the BB. Full bugreport will be coming later, unless I figure out a logical explanation - that would be posted in this same thread FAM_A: @Atila_el_1 @JSpan_Horrido @Abantos77 @B4karra @javidrama @KinRega @M4rsh4L Game ended around 22:02 CET CALM: @von_chom @Schmudla @nwcfear @JukkaCZ @biggpete @HriBack @nepovies Game ended at around 22:41 CET Both games were played on Mountain Range (a.k.a. Ridge in replays) with you having the North spawn, both have 1 specific shot from the BB in question - similar position and time of firing. Hopefully you can help me here Thanks to @B4karra for coming up with the idea / solution, turns out BBs can stealthfire

Could be that you got the pop-up right around the moment when they closed it, so just unlucky timing

When those were announced very few people were vocal about it, most of the answers / comments I got were along the lines of "BBaby Bingo" "BBaby crying, oh no". Sorry if you were among those speaking out against it but srsly, that just pisses me off. Constant cries how BBs are doing nothing, but the second there is a BB which can actually try to do something "oh no, he can do something else than scrape borders, NERF NERF NERF. Oh my gad, am I supposed to use BBs weaknesses against him?! Why wouldn't I just fail against him and still expect to great?! I want my fails to bring good results, I don't want to use my brain while dealing with a BB!!!!!!" As I said - this thread is going nowhere. Both sides are presenting their arguments, and both sides are completely disregarding the other ones arguments as "shut up you know nothing"

Thank you! With the help of B4karra we already figured out FAM_As case, and with this replay I should be able to confirm the same for your clan aswell :) Who knew BBs (and should extend to some cruisers) can stealthfire if the situation's set up correctly

They have been doing that forever. Where were you when I called -75% xp & credits for tanking dmg as a BB idiotic? Where were you when I called smokescreen changes a "direct nerf to teamwork which doesn't affect potatoes"? Where were you when I called DWTs a countermeasure to playing with team while the average borderhuger couldn't give 2 s**ts about them???? With a 5 min search I probably could give you far more examples like that. Stop trying to be the "I'm for the right side" when pretty much none of you cared enough when WG was actually making BBs into the idiotic "stay back and snipe" class it is today. Conq with the stealth and heal is literally the last best chance to play aggressively, up front, actually supporting the team, and YOU ALL are calling for it to be taken away. Stop bitching about camping BBs if you yourselves are pushing the last BBs that can play with team to be nerfed into borderhuging junk.

w8 w8 w8 w8, Conq is actually doing better after his stealth & heal cooldown nerfs than it did before them? High average dmg (bcuz of targeting BBs as the primary dmg source) and high suriviability were the only 2 things going good for it. And now after the nerfs it's doing better? Well I'll admit, didn't see that one coming.

I'm pretty sure this is exactly the case there if I was right outside the Gearings sight range (way outside of it in the case of CALM) the DD simply couldn't see me. So stealth firing isn't gone, BBs are still at it

Thanks!

It's called "git gud" Alternatively just play some ship in full AA configuration, then you never see a CV

People claiming that a ship who's statistically doing the worst of all its counterparts even before potato hordes reach it is OP

The Gearing is exactly who I'm talking about (in both cases) As he laid smoke and turned I was still approaching, and besides that - he might now be able to see me himself, but as it was a ship within the detection radius - should have still spotted me for the team. Altho... just a moment this is actually a good angle that I didn't think of. Exactly what I mean by a logical explanation. I'll go and test it

I mean, I understand that those replays, as part of CB, contain things like tactics and ship deployment, so you would be unwilling to give them up. What I need / want from them is the first 2min 25s for FAM_A and 2min 35s for CALM The idea is that I can overlay both - our and yours minimap - for the moment in question showing that DD was in position to spot the BB, as well as that it's not just a UI bug where the BB didn't get his "!" but was still spotted from your side.

Just as a confirmation: 1st shot performed against Moskva at 17:52 in-game time from coords 79-H9, your DD spotted for the 1st time at 17:48 igt at coords 71-E5 placing him 16.6 km from the BB whos unspotted. If your DD was in smoke he wouldn't have been seen by our DD