wilkatis_LV

Isn't spring already kind-of taken by FR BBs and US CLs? Wouldn't expect any first Italian lines to appear any sooner than mid-to-late summer if not even autumn.

I mean, PA DDs were just released, I'd expect DD numbers to jump up, altho currently at mid tiers (like 5 & 6) not higher

Could be a typical case of "you don't need that ribbon and since there is no ribbon there will be no note of it in post game stats" for that citadel hit. And replays wouldn't be of any use - they show you the same ribbons as you got in game and the shell trajectory will be different each time you re-play the replay

Pen doesn't matter here, Yamato has enough of it already. What your test shows is that Conq deals more dmg only as long as he hits more shells. So bow-on they would be identical, and when you start in factoring things like distance and accuracy... The 3 shell difference suddenly takes a nosedive... yet 10s don't meet only 10s, do they? In the 8..10 range there are what - 12 CAs and 5 CLs? So Conq outspots 4 of 17 who have particularly bad detection for a cruiser... Whoa so horrible Basically what you are telling us is that you play your Yamato at the map border a**-on to the enemy team so you are never overextended and as soon as you are spotted you can go full speed ahead to get away from them. I always thought those are potatoes doing that, turns out OMNI's in on it too... Yeah, that was the idea, I guess stating both was redundant

Funny you mentioned CB... if Conq is so OP why is Montana the go to pick for almost everyone? Yamato and Conq would share the 2nd place with GK being clearly the least played BB Lets unwind this one: Conq 12 guns - 24'844 dmg Yama 9 guns - 19'272 dmg so the gun proportion is 12/9 or shortened to 4/3 I wonder how do those damages look if we normalize them for this proportion... Yama*4/3 = 25'696 Conq*3/4 = 18'633 Oh look at that, the only difference came from different number of guns. Whoa, not predictably similar at all. Actually Yamato did more per gun than the Conq did. GK has lower HE dmg, and as I already said - the extra HE pen means basically nothing If you want to say that Conq has better concealment than a few cruisers - that included that other classes part. If not - why do you even use that as an argument? Nothing wrong with having better concealment than other BBs. And then maybe you are, lets say, 13 km from the closes enemy, but they pop their spotting aircraft. Or there is a CV keeping his planes somewhere safe 10...11km from you. And everyone's shooting at you, while you can't really get away because you're still a BB so turning isn't really a thing that you're good at... And those planes open quite a wide zone where you can't show up... But yeah, totally overextended bcuz didn't camp the border behind the spawn Is that what you do in your Yammy? Camp the spawn so you're never overextended? Clearly showed by how much I play it

out of 226 games, that's 22% of your games played Lets see, values from 0 to 3000, 61% of PR is dmg. Lets say you average 100% WR, 12 kills and 12 dmg. That would come out to potential 1176 cap for PR, wouldn't it? 1176 is at the very bottom of average. Now lets say 0% WR, 0 kills and "double" high cal every game, a.k.a. ridiculously high dmg. That theoretically would lead to 1824 PR which stands in "Great". PR already gives away what it is in its name - "Personal rating" -> literally doesn't care how you play for the team, it just values how much you can shine your own trophies. As I said, good stealth for BBs CVs aren't exactly the stealthiest class nor the ones to go close to front lines, and for your info Conq outstealths only the US CVs. For cruisers - 4 cruisers as far as I'm aware - Donskoi, Moskva, Hindy and HIV. 4 cruisers not the whole class. As I said - problem with the cruisers not the BB. Same pen as KM BBs, same dmg as IJN BBs, and going from the average 1 fire in 6 shells to 1 fire in 5. Much fire chance, such advantage Kinda missing your point. Are you one of those who cant see further back than one post? His argument was "exceptionally good stealth" to which I added "for a BB". With 4 exceptions in cruisers (and since for some reason CVs are getting dragged in aswell - with the exception of US CVs) everyone still can outspot Conq. It has good AA on paper, not practice. First of all - mid range not long range. Second - caliber (no manual AA for improving it). 3rd - 1....2 HE salvos from anything and the average IJN DD will be laughing at your AA. Not quite as bad as through the line where, or example, Lion can go from 500 to 70 dps in 1 cruiser HE salvo, but the trend is still there. KM BBs have the same pen buff. Then, HE pen is a constant not a variable, and affects first armour plate hit. BBs already have more than enough HE pen to go through pretty much everything, and as far as I know the only meaningful change that this penetration increase gives is that Conq can cit Minotaur (and probably some other RN CLs) with HE, literally doesn't matter on anything else. As for dmg - seeing how the dmg is on par with IJN BB dmg I'd actually say that the average outcome of those 2 would be predictably similar. And thanks to their armour many BBs can survive situations without even takng dmg where Conq gets melted. Thus the better heal to balance out this weakness. Still a non-point. I am not taking this point seriously til I see a serious thread complaining about Amagis and Kiis submerged citadels. Anyway, not sure how many of you follow WoWS Weekly stream, so here's the thing - yesterday it was said that Conq is statistically balanced, and not just by statistics available to the public but also by all the stats that WG has. So no changes are planned in the near future for the ship / line. With that one...

-which means that you can get a kraken every game and 100% WR, but as long as you have no dmg done you'll still have bad PR -sure you are leveling, definitely seems that way, sure sure -to sum it up, zomby heal, good stealth for a BB but still worse than other classes, no armour, hAhAhA AA - the best you can get in that line and still a joke, and they have HE just like every other ship apart from RN CLs, lowest healthpool with highest potential if you actually manage to survive long enough and drag the game out long enough to use multiple heals, and you clearly fail to understand the value of even 6 additional mm of armour, not even talking about having over 20mm extra

All I know about Leningrad is that she's the only DD I avoided dropping in my Hiryu. Torps with acceleration and I'm pretty sure she still outran them, too much effort to bother with unless I have to. Plenty of other fish in the sea to go for

When I was actively using MM Monitor to check on CVs to know how screwed I might be for that one (the view was generally too depressing so I stopped) I saw quite a lot of 32...37%. I don't even have a clue how can you drop down that far unless you are deliberately trying to lose

Funny thing about PR, it's almost completely based on dmg you do. You can jack off in a corner with a Yamato, snipe away across the map and farm yourself a decent PR. You know what it's going to lack? WR with it. Then again you can play team game, dropping your solo stats for increased chance to win. Worse PR, better WR. Of course, somewhere there is balance of teamwork and solo results, and players who can hit that are those who are 60+ % WR in this game. But I mean, those who actually play the game not just sealclub with their new acc bcuz their old one was either banned or stats just were too low he cant connect 1+1 as a 2, don't try arguing with him unless you troll him for some fun Because when you are under fire from 1, 2, 5 people all can be affected by your armour? You know, those situations that aren't 1v1s as well as those which are?

Pretty much, yeah. I think I calculated in Fire Prevention (10%) and that module that reduces the chance (3%), but overall just halving it is a good way to roughly estimate it. I can see that working. Especially if it's a muliplicative addition not just a flat addition, as bigger base would produce bigger bonus Didn't even think of Germans, right, they too can do it. So that means it's not unique, just that RN has like 50-ish % more alpha on HE.

I don't remember the exact numbers from the top of my head, I think Conq was like 4.8, and the other 3 were like 5.8 / 6.2 / 6.5 <- but those numbers might be a bit wrong. They are buried in the "Nerf Conq" thread And all those are without fire flags, personally I spec'd my Conq with a full on tank build to increase the survivability (as I tend to play far more aggressive than the average BB), and my flags went the same way. Also since I play 10s almost exclusively in CB (in most cases I prefer to play a tier 9 ship over a 10 in randoms) I've set all of my free flag spaces for xp boosts I can definitely confirm that Conqs 419 HE can citadel a Minotaur, have done that multiple times. Just that I expected other BBs to be kind of able to do that too. I mean, could it simply have something to do with the splash range?

It's as easy as it gets for AP, just that AP is still the better choice to kill off his heal. A thing I need to get around to check is that I recently noticed that HE sometimes seems to be partially repairable aswell - sometimes, but not always. Game mechanics support didn't understand the question or something, so I'll just have to test it on my own. There might be ways to make HE more viable aswell Well, I already showed that. Conqs 32mm can be pend by every cruisers HE at tier 8+, just that the russian 152s will need IFHE. Montys 38mm can be pen'd by the cruiser standard 203s (and 220s the Moskva has) as long as they run IFHE which people don't run for guns that are like 180mm or higher. I mean, yeah, every now and then there will be some special guy like Notser doing it, but that's not your standard enemy. And then the 50mm -> you need 303mm gun with /6 (no CAs); 234mm at /6 with IFHE (no CAs); 202mm with /4 (Germans). And then there are 57 & 60mm zones which even German CAs can't go through. That can make a lot of difference. And the way to punish Conq is exactly that - use the fact that he has less armour, so burst him down between his heals. If he has made a mistake that means you have the time to do it or to torpedo him. Otherwise I'm not sure what you mean by mistake. Oh, if you mean giving broadside - even with a raised citadel you still would have some problems to go through those 63mm zones, while with those removed you could get more citadels on him even as it is right now. They are. I mean, crusiers aren't stealthy like DDs or durable like BBs. Just becuase they get deleted so often for making the slightest mistakes I'd say there are way less potatoes playing them thus making the average cruiser better than the average [any other class]. But still there are enough of those who don't care, and there still are enough of those who will happily sit next to your BB broadside on almost asking "well, in how few salvos can you get rid of me, huh?" Last time I saw HE mentioned at how much you can heal what on WG Wiki it was listed as 100% healable, right around the time of RN BB release. Right now I can't find that page anymore, and the only list they have doesn't have HE in it. When asking to game mechanics support, pretty much each time they have different answer - yes, no, partially. Basically that's not a source either. From personal experience - I've healed Lion and Conq back to 100% HP after being under HE fire, but as I mentioned previously there might be some ways to make HE dmg partially healable, still have to test it. Unless of course that has been a silent "tell noone" change for game mechanics in one of the last patches, wouldn't be surprised about that either.

Many people assume that you never use AP on RN BBs the same way as many never use their guns on IJN DDs. On Lion and Conq I found similar result to what you described - shoot AP or HE, scores average out to approximately the same. But the score gets far far better when you switch between them according to situation On broadside BBs and cruisers at close and mid range AP is the better choice, for everything else there's HE. But then again, you could assign this exact description to almost every BB in the game, and it would fit The HE dmg throughout the line is on par with IJN BB HE dmg (sometimes ahead of it, sometimes behind it) The fire chance - while I haven't calculated it for all tiers, at tier 10 it goes like this - if all 4 BBs fired at a BB with the same fire prevention setup, Conq would have on average 1 fire in 5 shells, while all 3 others would get 1 fire in 6 shiells hit. The difference is far smaller than it looks. And penetration - there is basically nothing (*) that the extra pen on BBs would let you pen over normal BB pen, it would be like Notsers IFHE DesMemes - maybe you get 1 extra pen in 100 hits. (*) - I've been told from a more or less reliable source that RN BBs can HE citadel RN CLs while others can't. I haven't got to playing around with that idea just yet, but if that is the case then I do agree that the /4 pen is a problem. So their dmg would be close to US / KM BB HE dmg with IJN having a clear lead, and the fire chance would be pretty much the same as on other BBs. A.k.a. just make more of the same 419s would have 83mm HE pen... I'll keep this in mind while checking that RN CL thing. AP's already great, at below 16km on broadside targets you can easily and reliably score 20....35k salvos without citadelling them. I can't think of many ships who could do that Should I post the armour zone pictures here? Basically TL;DR version is: if you exclude main belts which all 4 have quite similar, superstructure armour which all of them have identical, and main batteries / barbettes as they are 0 dmg zones, the rest of the armour (hull) plating is weaker on Conq than on others. Yeah, you still have the 32mm bow / stern, but in the case of Conq she's still at 32mm in the middle. Closest to her is the Montana with 38mm (massive difference if cruiser HE is taken into account) and then Yamato and GK have their platings at 50...60mm. Conq can be HE pen'd everywhere by all cruisers she meets (the russian 152s would need IFHE), which is not something you can say about other 3 BBs. The heal is there exactly as a solution to this - you take more damage, and you heal more. Armour for heal or vice versa - fair trade. CLs are super squishy themselves. KGV does not have a superheal, but it works becuase t7 is simply a good tier. Monarch at 8 is perfect example - same armour scheme as Liona nd Conq, but without the heal it's just a turd of a ship. Nelson has very high citadel (way higher than it was in reality) but it still has the short 72s cooldown on his superheal (unlike the Lion / Conq which basically have to wait for over 2 min) As it stands currently, with premium heal, with the flag that reduces the cooldown, and with Jack Dunkirks improved JoAT you can get the time between 2 consecutive activations down to 2 min 3 seconds. You are suggesting increasing that to 2min 23 sec. 2 min is already a really long time, unless the Conq is out of the battle and safe while waiting for heal to come off of the cooldown he'll simply die as the armour doesn't do much in terms of protecting. increasin g that to 2 and a half would basically force Conq to lpay even more passive - don't we have enough passive borderhugging BBs already? I have to say that I'm happy to see some trends that I've been talking about since Day 1 to be finally catching on. More AP fired at Conqs, they actually get bursted down between heals. Turns out the community can learn, just very, very, very slowly Actually quite the opposite. Submerged citadel can't be hit at close range, but can at long ranges. Also stealth allows you to get closer to perform more accurate attacks. Good gun traverse allows you to track targets at short ranges, and quickly switch between targets at wide angles between them. They're good at close range, but not every ship has to have great secondaries, just look at US BBs - they do fine without them. Man do I miss having a Spotter on Conq, but oh well, can't have it all. Radar should not be on BBs, it's as simple as that. I don't even like the idea of radar on DDs, but at least the PA DDs have to trade smoke for it (unlike the great examples of Payfast and Black who have radar and smoke at the same time) Hydro is a German thing, probably wouldn't fit AA is US thing, so giving another nation this ability would kind of take it way from them. Personally I've always liked the idea of "boost the reload by X% for Y amount of time at the Z% increase of detonation chance" for RN BBs, whith their "tradition" of leaving doors open where they shouldn't be to speed things up, but that would have to be balanced out with the anti-detonation flag which would otherwise nullify the drawback of it. Unless you use it as a flat addition not multiplicatively. KGVs slightly stealthier than others at 7, Monarch is already bad, Lion and Conq are supposed to outdetect other BBs. Generally it's a little overrated, especially with DDs generally roaming much closer to you than enemy BBs are thus spotting you before you can use it as a 1-on-1 advantage. In a 1-on-1 between BBs Conq is supposed to have the upper hand. Also they really should accent the air detectability more, as BBs with their spotters would actually be able to spot Conq well ahead of themselves that way. And as for Conq outspotting Hindy and Moskva - I see that more as a problem with those cruisers than with the BB. Nice to see that you actually put quite a lot of thought in the post

The point is that with AP you wouldn't have been able to heal so much at that point, while when you are under HE spam you can get it all back. Cmon, this was made clear many pages ago. It's not an issue as long as you have a heal to heal up all that extra HE dmg you will take. I already showed how the Monty with her extra 6mm is basically resistant to cruiser HE in those zones, not even talking about the 50...60mm plating of the other 2. Those zones can be HE-pend only by BB HE. And yet Angling is irrelevant for HE hits apart from giving a smaller target (DDs and CAs are accurate enough anyway, jsut that they might hit a trurret instead of damagable zone) GK has basically just the tip of the bow at 32mm, you would have to hit it right on the edge to overmatch it. Almost immediately it goes to 60, yeah. And here you assume intelligence where there is none. Most players will still just spam HE at you, because they either don't know any better or just don't care.

Lets face it - all 5 DDs dead is not exactly jsut the teams fault, DDs did their fair share of rushing, overextending and f**king up there. Of course teams support is needed, but DDs all too often forget that BBs gop half of their speed, rush ahead behind islands and die where noone even can support them. 1 game is a single situation. 10 games are a lucky / unlicky / average string of results. 50 games show your expected performance 100 games already are so many, that any good / bad team will have averaged out thus the only constant factor affecting the games outcome is you (and to some extent your divisions). And when you go into multiple hundreds or thousands... it doesn't matter any more what kind of teams you had, there is more than enough to average out any of their flaws. Only you (and your divisions) have had influence on your performance - whether you're a liability to your team or are you pulling your weight and some more You too read the answer one above. Yes it can be explained. And some of enemy teams do exactly the same. These one-time events average out over larger amounts of battles. pay lots and lots of moneys to WG for good stats ofc

problem with the CA not the BB Already long since argued that trading heal for armour would be a fair trade. It has to have one or the other, and since currently there is no armour to speak off - heal it is

I've oneshot unicum DDs at 15+ km with BB AP just because RNG decided so. Totally deserved, right?

Other mechanic? Hmm, something like simply capped max damage in one hit or in "X" amount of time? Yeah, that would make sense too Also yeah, @El2aZeR your name is really difficult to remember

I recently red some (not quite fresh but not old either) medical research paper that said "inability to recognize sarcasm may be an early warning of developing Alzheimer's" - so for your own healths sake I'd go and get it checked if I was you. I mean, afaik it's still not treatable, but if you catch it early you may get a head start on using medicine that lets you to remain... well, yourself for a longer time. Just a friendly heads up 15 pages of discussion, and you still feel the need to come in and randomly say something completely ignoring that it might have already discussed here more than enough? And tell me -> is 1 fire in 5 shells such a massive lead over 1 fire in 6 shells that the other 3 have? I already do, just that that was the most pointless point of all the points ever made about the ship In testing it had this, so now when it doesn't have that same thing we need to nerf him keeping in mind that it almost had that thing!!! That point just cracked me up I didn't cover the underwater part as it doesn't exactly mater for HE hits, but on Conq it gets quite fragmented quite quickly. Screw it, I'll just get another picture detailing the Conqs main belt For Monty the belt is 409 above water, 409 for a bit below water (I thin it goes about as deep as on the Conq, at least it looks that way), and then 259 to finish it off. So the central part is quite similar for both. Conq does have those small strips bow & stern (they are identical, so I added numbers just to one) but they are already past the citadel and there is a 32mm zone right below waterline above them that you can still go through in, for example, Yamato. Currently with the idiotic 63mm citadel roof on both ends you can reasonably hope to score a citadel hit only below his superstructure where the roof is 19mm. As me and that guy with the difficult to remember nickname already concluded - removing those 63mm zones would give you better chance at citadelling Conq, and not just from side but also stern-on (not sure how bow-on would go with that, haven't seen that one tested). Read the past 14 pages (this one included) And... there is a ship in the game that can not damage any other ships? I mean, Liberty ships I guess as you can't ram them thus no team damage, but I bet if a bot rammed one of them both would still take dmg. So... Any ship firing HE will damage any ship in the game you know. And before you argue that [I think it was] Smith with the 76s even with IFHE can pen just up to 15mm - I haven't checked his AP, but torps definitely can damage any ship, and then you can still score fires with shatters, so... Still can't think of a single ship that wouldn't be able to damage every ship in the game in one way or another. Read the past 14 pages (this one included). Also I have to add - I love how your position was "stop lying Conq has great armour just like all tier 10 BBs" and as soon as I prove otherwise you go for "armour doesn't matter" it does buddy, it really does. Btw, how's that medical check-up coming? Made the doctors appointment already? Stuff like that is all fun and jokes till one moment, don't wait up on it. Oh yeah, Flamu. The one whos yelling started the BB HE apocalypse in the first place. Good source, much not-overreacting. Good player, but overlooks a lot of things quite often. And yeah, a game where he spends 15 min spamming HE to set 2 fires would 100% have made it to YT with him complaining how weak the ship is, wouldn't it? That same scenario can be repeated with pretty much any BB as long as you fire HE and get left alone by everyone. @cro_pwr Hey yo man, where did you disappear?

Stats check: BB player with basically no games played as a DD. Well that was obvious, not a biased comment at all. Next go complain how CV can drop you too easily and how OP with 0 effort they are

Oh wow, a ship was tested with something on it, whoa I didn't know they test different things and ideas on ships! I thought ships are exactly the same from the second there is an idea of having this ship, the first point that gets written down is taken as fact and never changed! Isn't it so?!?!?!?! This is the most re***ded argument in this whole thread

Well, it sort-of does improve it. I bet DDs would be far less interesting for people if taking a torp to bow / stern would pretty much kill you instead of sending you to 20% HP. Not cool either way, but at least you stay alive. And similar arguments probably could be made for other classes aswell. Also fun fact - as far as I know AP overpens always do their exact dmg, no matter if the area is health, saturated or fully-saturated. So (as an example) you could take a torp to your bow that deals 0 dmg to you, AP pen that would do nothing, HE hit that deals no damage and so on, but AP overpen would still hit your HP pool. At least that's how it's shown to work in Wiki, have never tested it in the training room

We already have a NewYear mission running, it started either yesterday or 2 days ago. But I'd expect more things to happen starting with the release of 6.15 next Thursday morning (21st December)

And that is bs RNG in that case, even at that close range at least 1...2 shells should have missed a small target like a DD. 100% hits on a BB or a larger cruiser I could understand, on BB it's just a no. So yeah, RNG f**ked him with no lube. If you had just the bow batteries he should have come off better in that one.