Dropman12

It's beed long time since I played it...but ok, I apologize Myogi for my ignorance

Whats the difference between angled Yamato and angled Bismarck? Cant see any...its imho better to set him on fire than hope for some good pen.

Troll, or just mad newbie? Its not bad to actually use brain before whining, you might look pretty stupid without it... 1)Nagato can citadel Gneis/Scharn/Tirp/Bism. Its just question of angle. Contrary Gneis have hard times to even hit at long ranges, citadel is only question of luck. 2)Nagato can pen Gneis frontally. Its basic game mechanics, 410mm gun overpen front armour of anything at T7. It can even citadel Gneis frontally at close range. 3)Gneiss aside, no regular BB has torps. No regular BB has only 6 guns. Fair trade. 4)No, Gneis has great AA at T7. Still T8 and T9 CV will destroy you if they want. Its question of time, nothing more. 5)Again, 25 is not bad. But it is enough for what Nagato need to do. I really doubt what are you doing in this game, whining aside. You have no idea of basic mechanics nor ships weaknesess. You somehow miss Nagato is one of the most accurate BBs in game and purely compare it to brawler in close combat. Like bringing sniper rifle into knife fight with shotgun. God save us if WG would actually listen these experts... TL;DR: Learn to play...

How difficult is engaging BB at long range? I've just met one PE skipper who kept 16km distance and dodge almost every shot I fired...while burning me to death. It looked kinda easily for him to constantly hit me while my NC was desperate to fight back.

I still kinda miss the point - you can either invisfire, or everybody sees you, nothing between. If you fight close, you are being spoted, no matter what. So whats the problem? So far I didnt see DDs being depend on invis fire ability, all in all easiest to invis fire are usually japs...and noone cares. So what Im missing?

As owner of Scharn and Bism with 15 pts captain (full secondary build) I can only asure you that even if you are being targeted by secondaries, you are still fine. Secondaries are far from accurate, even with skills. What I can see at lower tiers is that DD skippers get nervous and either yolo or run away when under secodaries fire. Damage itself is usually pathetic. The only situation they are deadly is when BB skipper maintain distance from DD, aka not alow him to disengage. But lets be honest here, its pure DD's fail if it cannot flee from BB. TL DR: DD chose when, where and how will engagement with BB happen. Secondaries cant prevent this. All they can do is to disturb or hope for lucky hit. Still, engagement is fully at hands of DD skipper. P.S: note Im adresing this to BB vs DD fight. When talking about CA/BB vs BB secondaries are much more usefull tool.

Not knowing what is sonar for or not being able to use it is nothing to boast...not want to be rude, but CL/CA skipper who never used sonar has simply lot to improve. Contrary to you, I consider sonar being more usefull than AA for long. I have 200+ games in Atago and I dont remember if I ever used AA. Sure, i get destroyed by CV few times..but its not worth it anyway in these days. Or better said - it should be obvious to any captain that it depends on situation and ship. But saing its generally useless is silly. 1) you talk about 2,5/3,5 detection. Wrong, it depends. Higher tier, better values. It also depends on nation. Germand hydro is not russian one. AFAIK german CA has 3,5/5,5. So if you get torped by russian 4km torps, you simply screwed it, nothing else. In the same way, if when fighting in smoke you can see DD much earlier than he can see you..so you can destroy him withou being spoted. Same goes for chargin smoked DD while you are not spoted. Easy kill. 2) CA/CL can and sometimes should be agresive. Especially when talking about DDs hunt. Which is where sonar shines. You are mixing two different things together - dodging torps and chasing DD. While you dont need sonar to dodge torps in open water (WASD is enough) if you chase DD, you dont have luxury to bleed speed. You are few knots slower and you want to get close as fast as possible. So no, yes, sonar is invaluable. I can advance at full speed withou fear of being suprised. 3) Smoke. You probably know that DDs tend to sit in smoke. If you charge in, there are 2 options: if you are spoted, you will have to dodge torps. And you are usually under fire, so you want to reach smoke as soon as possible. 4) DDs are not only source of torps. If you fight with RU/IJN/Ger/UK cruiser, there usually will be alot of torps in water. You cant afford to get hit and its painfull to show broadside to enemy, so having more time to react is huge. With sonar I might just reduce speed to dodge them and remain angled. You might have to turn into them, showing broadside. Thats huge if you ask me. 5) There are some situations where you want to screen/cant just dodge as you wish. Typically when you are in cap with another mate and there is enemy DD around. You can simply avoid being torped. Hell even your mate can use it. 6) German BBs are considered so strong not because of secondaries, but mainly because of sonar. For example Bismarck is only ship at T8 who actually can push without running into torpwall. This makes a huge difference, any BB skipper would kill for having sonar. As I said, no intention to be rude. But if you said hydro is useless...especially when CVs are rarelly played today...that only seems to me that you are the guy sitting at back and sniping all day long...

Well its still in testing phase...but still How is Radio Position Finding meant to be used? To help cruisers and DDs? Sorry, but this is nonsence, as DDs are too fast too be catch at first, and cruisers are still obliterated by BBs they have rarelly chance to even try it. Figtning DDs is about waiting for their mistake, not active searching. Only real impact is that every ship afraid of torpedoes will take it, as there is only little chance to for DD to torp and not being "known". Knowing where are torps comming from means you need to be really dumb to be hit. And lets be honest here, even before dodging torps was generally about BBs stupidity. So I really dont understand this...as CV skipper I really cant see benefit, I wount kill DD with this sklil anyway. In the same way, i cant see how to torp semi-decent BB captain with this perk. Kinda weird, given the fact BBs are the best performing class already....

Honestly what is the point of having 2 prem BBs of same nation? The premuim is about to grind money and train captain. If you have Scharn, what benefit would give you Tirp? So if the price doesnt matter, I cant see any reason to not go for Mou. Or generally any other nation high tier prem.

Well thats kind of problem Im having with this - do manual sec skill really make secondaries twice as good? As far as I know reducing maximal dispersion does not directly mean better accuracy. While it feels better, I never seen anyone making math on this. Sure, logicaly it should be better, but hey, we are talking about logic in WG game. Contrary to this, Basic Firetraining and Manual AA have easily countable efects which boast both your secondaries dmg and AA dmg. Aka boost for you strength and weakness. Speaking of experience, I dont remember if I was in need of better secondaries. When facing 381+ guns, I usually rush to torp enemy, few more sec hits does not matter. When facing lower calibers, all I need to do is avoid torps and stay angled. But Im pretty sure I was in need of beter AA many times. That being said my main captain do have manual sec, and its hell of fun. All I wanted to say is that actually you have viable options, something other captains cannot say.

First its kinda stupid to compare T6 and T7. Second, while you are true with that, Negativvv is true in general. If you speak about 1vs1 (which is something so rare its kinda worthless to talk about btw) competent german captain dont give you chance. While you can open fire at long distance, you have to spot him first. While Fuso can be spoted from moon, Gneis/Scharn has about 15km spoting distance. And competent captain will use this. So battle starts at 15 km. Not only that, german captain can choose where and when to engage. Since that moment its about you fleeing and he chasing. Given the fact he is much faster and has impenetrable bow...you stand little chance. Not even mentioning Fuso must angle a lot to bring its guns to chasing ship while german ships has 2/3 of its firepower on bow. So you either losing speed by turning in order to bring more guns to firefight, or fight with less guns than your oponent. I believe thats what negativvv meant when talking about well played german BB. That being said it should not be suprise that T7 BB is stronger than T6. When uptiered, Fuso is probably best T6 BB in game. It has good range, firepower and accuracy to hit hard from second line and hurt even T8 ships. Which can hardly be said about the rest.

This is why I think Scharn/gneis are so loved ships - not only they are fun to play, but you have actually real options to choose. I have Superintendent as well, but I really wish to have also vigilance. Which is doable, but I also consider Basics of Surviability and Basic Fire Training as a must, so Im short of points. When speaking of skills, Im tempted of skipping manual secondaries and going for something like: T1 - BFT, BS; T2 - EM; T3 - Vigilance, Superintendant; T4 - AFT, Manual AA. So basically manual AA and Vigilance instead of manual secondaries. All in all this is what Im afraid - torps and CVs. When speaking of upgrades - I went for main battery mod, than switching to secondaries, than switching bach to main just to finally switch back to secondaries. Its imo about your feeling. Your main source of dmg is main batery so its probably better to focus on it, but lets be honest - we probably dont play Scharn to be top dmg dealers, but to have fun. And secondaries on fast, torps-equiped, well armoured BB is great fun.

Well thats exactly my only experience with german DD - iEarlGrey in T-22 against me, rushed cap and poped up smoke. As another cruiser rushed into his smoke, i torped that smoke which resulted into very fast end of T-22. He was kinda salty (suprisingly) even when I apologized (but honestly who wouldnt torp smoke at cap with two ships in?)

Dont understand the part about cruisers. I know how do they work, its my most played class as well. Its both oftopic and irelevant. My points stands - facing BB at 8km is not automatically death sentence, you can have chance. BB can be caught offguard as well. Except its agile like brick with awfull turret speed in compare to you. So you stand chance if you want to fight. Ofcourse its not about dodging shells, but you can try yolo him. Im kinda curious what are you trying to say about DDs. That you cannot oneshot them? Who cares? Its matter of few seconds. If you need salvo or two barely means anything. I really wonder how can DD catch you offguard in CA. Its kinda stupid in normal battle, moreso in cyclon. If you are spoted in cyclon and you cant see anything, you are sure there is DD. And you are sure there are torps in water. So no reason to not turn sonar and plane on and be agresive, using wasd hack. Sory, but being caught by suprise by DD in CA in cyclon is simply mistake of CA skipper. Im not saying you are imune to torps, sometimes you catch one, but if you survive that and get kill, its tottaly worth it. Only chance of DD is to run away and hope you run into his torps. Do whatever you want, Im just saying that running away just because of lower detectability is bad play.

Than you are not agresive DD hunter, which is where UK CAs shine. Hydro is useless for common firefights, true, but it is also ultimate tool for every DD hunter. Point is DD has two options to save its butt - run away (which is something you cant do anything with) and pop up smoke. In second case, they are dead. If you can get close to it (which is why you have great concealement), you pop up sonar which means: you neutralized their torps. You have plenty of time to dodge, its literary imposible to get hit. Sudennly its about guns, not torps. The second, you see them faster. Its pretty common that DD pop up smoke without having spotter in team (dont forget their smoke block line of sight even for own ships), thus it doesnt see you, you doesnt see him. With sonar you see him first, so he get spoted and hit without being able to even return fire. With you great AP ammo, it is the easiset xp you can earn. The best possible play you can make is to wait till DD pop up smoke, rush in, kill him and use his smoke to shot enemies. Its risky and hard, but man, you feel like a boss when executed right. Not even it means lot of xp, but its also huge help to team. UK CA looks like born for this job. Im regulary having succes with Moami/Atago, the only problem is getting into smoke, as you are usually under heavy fire. Anyway, for this reason I love sonar.

I'd go for Atago for simple reason you have IJN ships already. If you feel comfortable with IJN cruiser playstyle, Atago is great choice. That ship has (aside of dpm) all you need. Kutuzov is great ship as well, but not having capitain to train looks like waste. Beside this, Kutuzov is more boring ship honestly. Most of time you spend at distance, spaming HE like a madman. Its very efective, no doubt. But honestly its also kinda stereotype. You can go close and use suprise enemy but its not where Kutuzov shine. Atago operate closer, using torps, great concealement and HE performance like champ. In the end its (atleast to me) much intensive playstyle. So in the end its your call. They are both very efective but with completelly different playstyle. Which means they both give you lot of credits and XP. But keep in mind than premium ship is meant to be played alot, thus you need ship that will enjoy you. Going for Kutuzov without experience with russian ships looks like a risk to me. But hey, you are chosing between best premiums available, you will hardly make mistake with any of them.

Sorry dude, but this is actually pretty bad advice. First of all, lower detection can be in your favor. Advicing to run away is stupid, cyclon is all about sticking together not pausing the game. You still have to go for your goals. Sometimes its only chance to cap otherwise well pretected cap or close the distance. The most important is to stick together. Even as a cruiser you have some impact if you support your own capital ships. The second this is also pretty weird - you die when facing DD at 6km? At this range DD have serious trouble to dissapear, yet you have time and space to maneuver. Turn sonar on, release fighter, use A and D keys and enjoy free xp. Seriously, If you play cruiser, but cannot deal with your prey at optimal conditions, than there is something wrong with you. No ofence. If you face BB, its bad, but not that bad - you can try to dissapear, or charge in if you have torps. Sure you can be deleted by single salvo, and BB will try it, but unless you appear directly in front of his guns, he will not have many attempts to erase you. As I said cyclone turns fights into dpm races. He who will have more guns and hp will win. Lone ship is in wrong spot regardless of tier or class. You know its coming and you know when its coming, so plan ahead and stick together with others. I've played several games where cyclone turned tide of battle, simply because one team made groups which steamrolled lone enemy ships one by one.

Kinda disagree here Negativvv: BoS: Fires are not much problem as they can be completely repaired. Flooding means getting hit by torp, which is usually death sentence anyway. Cant remember if I ever needed it, if you survive hit by torp you have repair or die anyway in my experience. That being said BFT is situational as well. EM is great choice, no doubt, but I would mention Incoming fire alert as well. Despite people saying you dont need it, I see cruisers being deleted by unexpected BB salvo almost every game. Cruiser is about not being hit, thats first and the most important rule for every CA skipper. It saved my butt so many times. Im looking forward to my captain geting 17th sklil to have both IFA and EM. When talking about consumables, I premium heal is a must. Rest isnt - premium repair is handy, but with your concealement you can always disengage when fight is too intensive. Hydro is great tool, no doubt, but you really need it when you charge into smoke (which is usually death sentence for any DD sitting in it). Otherwise being torped in Atago from distance is indication you really crewed it - if you are spoted when having 9,1 concealement and not changing direction nor releasing plane and finally taking torp hit is just....plain stupid. So superintendant and premium heal is usually all you need to do well. Modules are pretty easy - go for standart equipement (mainly better accuracy, better turning and better concealement).

Torps are not threat? Since when? No longer you can send torpwalls at 20km all day long, true. Still DD player can completely ruin day for any BB. You just need no CV in game and little skil/patience.

Oh please, there is already topic for whining about ranked. No need to spam forum with this every second day.

It may be realistic, challenging, true teamwork regarding map and so on, but its mainly boring. And thats the biggest issue. Its generally about which team can stick together, focus fire and destroy enemy one by one. Honestly I dont remember any interesting game I had on this map...not saying its bad map, but fun is obviously at first place for game like this (suprisingly).

Gotta love this. For whole time people rant about BBs being snipers and campers. And its fair to say that charging with so called brawlers like Colorado or New mexico with their 20kts speed and lack of secondaries/sonar was simply suicide. Now we are given proper Bbs for agresive play...and people rant again. Since the beggining of online gaming there is basic principe which works across all games - force opponent to play your game, do not play his. You dont go close with sniper rifle. You dont snipe with shotgun. You want to force opponent to fight close with his snipe rifle. You want to force opponent snipe with his shotgun. And thats it - ger BBs are generally undergunned, with low accuracy and dpm, thus bad for long range. They have great secondaries, torps and armour for close engagements, thus great in close combat. If you still dont know how to fight them, and are being caught in close engagements every game, there is problem in you. You either choosing wrong gameplay, or have wrong ship. Hint: They start 30km away from you. They are only few kts faster. They need huge amount of time to close distance against ship going away from them. Torps can be avoided. They are vulnerable to plunging fire.

As said, modules like turrets do have their HP pools. You can penetrate them (thus penetration ribbon) but not destroy them (thus no destroyed module ribbon). As a result it looks like game bug, but its usually just unlucky hit to turret...

I dont think its willingness. My point is - you have game, where one BB charge, call for help, second refuse to move and use its long range guns. One thinks its good idea to charge, second thinks its suicide. And game is lost. In the end, both whine here that their team is useless and cannot play like a team. Who is to judge? Thats what I point out, everybody thinks its not his fault but actually it is. In ideal team one thinks of strategy, others follow regardless what they think about it. Read the whole topic, but I doubt you find one example when someone followed others plan even when he thought its stupid...you do what you think is best to do, others do the same, but it dont necesarilly result into teamplay. On the sidenote, how did you manage to influence game in Atago? Its my only ranked ship as well, but Im stuck at R9 and i have feeling I have no impact. I usually follow our DDs, trying to hunt down opponent's, but they usually pop up smoke and Im suddenly juicy target for enemy, which hurts. And since that moment Im just oportunistic vulture who wait for someones mistake, sending torps and starting fires when possible...any tips?

Nice, 42 pages of whining. It never gets old, right? Weird is that everybody emphasize that its lack of teamplay that screw ranked, yet showing lack of teamplay mindset when blaming others for not winning, forgotting he himself is member of team, thus also responsible for result. Obviously I never had someone from foum in team, all I can see is a bunch of random players who all think to do best and sometimes its enough, sometimes not.