FellRaven

There are several Concealed Maneuvers but not an Official one. why do you think that is? Some Random thoughts about the mechanics: CVs getting to drop 3 minefields for free no negative impact at all. There is no counter to minefields (Apparently you can use Depth Charges - hidden in post) They are by their nature passive and so are free damage to the person that laid them The Minefields as they are could be deployed by any ships just like air attack depth charges giving this to CVs seems random at best It's a negative mechanic in that it encourages a negative static play styles If you really won't Minefields (And I am not convinced we do) might I suggest some changes: You can use depth charges to clear a path (Yes you can I missed this in WGs post) They are not laid by CV but instead dropped from the stern of Minelayers or Submarines who will have to put them selves at risk to do it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Manxman_(M70)

OK I admit I missed that completely

You are probably right but it shouldn't be as this probably shouldn't be a CV mechanic

OK played it once as a BB never want to play this again. WG you seriously need to send some people to the Gulag for this. With all the threatened rage quits around Aircraft and Submarines. I honestly believe this will finally kill the game if it ever see co-op or random modes. Point 1: Only 9 players, I guess those mines consume a lot of resources. Point 2: 2 CVs so that is 7 Players in reality (Mines aren't really an issues to stationary ships) Point 3: Get a BB play the mode and see how boring it is (That is the key boring!!!! Games are not supposed to be Boring) Just No No No

Don't think that is correct but happy to be proved wrong.

This is the issue I'm having I know a Submarine is within the published detection range but Submarine Surveillance doesn't work as I think it should and I think it might be because it doesn't detect Submarines on the Surface or at 30m which seems nuts.

I assume you have never played Submarines there are 4 levels: Surface 10m Periscope 30m 60m Maximum So based on the wording Submarine Surveillance does not detect submarines at 30m or on the Surface.

So Submarine Surveillance - Detects Submarines at Maximum and Periscope Depths?!!!? So does that mean it doesn't detect submarines between those 2 depths which would explain why it often doesn't seem to work. That is like having Radar that detects ships between 12-10 km and 4-0km. Have I understood this correctly

So does anyone know when Hydroacoustic search started working against fully submerged Submarines? I think it is well over due but I'm sure it didn't used to work but now appears to.

I will start with Submarines are not balanced and should never have been introduced, that said. Having leveled up both the U-69 and the Cachalot I can not find anything that would recommend the Cachalot over the U-69 it doesn't seem to be better in any meaningful way. Thoughts anyone else who has played both.

I think this sums the issue up nicely Submarines are bad for the game. What is needed are effective counters, like SONAR which strangely detects ships and Torpedoes but not submarines. I'm sure when WG do finally introduce SONAR (Original name ASDIC and introduced in 1920!!!! and fitted to all RN small ships by the start of the war) it will only be available to Soviet Ships just like Soviet Ships had the best AA, Radar, Armour, Speed because they weren't hampered by actually having to be built WG seem intent on destroying the game as they did World or Warplanes and World of Tanks

There used to be ships that were no fly zones Stalingrad and Minotaur were examples of this and yes those types and ships need to be brought back. WG know that the CV rework has been a fiasco and they repeatedly nerfed AA after it because the new CV Players complained: Continuous damage AA was nerfed out of existance. AA Ranges were nerfed Flak was nerfed DD AA traps were nerfed (AA can no-longer be activated at 100% it ramps up) AA Immunity zones Dutch Cruisers Airstrikes WG does not care about balance unless you are talking about their bank balance. They also don't care about player feedback it they did Subs would never have been introduced

Easy go and play some tier 5/6 games with either Submarines or Carriers on the other side and it's obvious why people get fed up, WG introduced 2 completely unbalanced ship classes which can strike with virtual immunity.

I can't believe I am having to explain this no Subs or CVs at Odd Tiers

There would be no waiting for Odd Tiers think about it for a minute

Can I propose Single Tier Match Maker so we can play only Odd or Even Tiers. I believe this would be very popular.

Sorry there was an argument in your ramblings must have missed that........no wait I didn't there wasn't one

Thoughts on Submarines - based on playing against them They are pretty much invisible so there are less targets for everyone else - known issue in testing You can detect them!!!! Why doesn't Sonar Detect them for F*ck Sake? - Again know issue from testing Range issues their Torpedoes and Pings vastly out range the current counters - They seems to be able to stay submerged indefinitely - now I know that isn't true but forcing them to the surface with Proximity WGs preferred method doesn't seem to work. Now if you think of them list DDs yes DDs can stay at range un-spotted, they can use smoke but this can be countered with Radar, Aircraft and Sonar and if they fire their guns they stay spotted for more that a factions of a second. Question I suppose is does WG care about balance, CV would say no they don't

You needs to stop smoking that weed man you are rambling

Firstly your historic point is actually wrong nobody actually built (laid down) new battleships after it became apparent that CVs were the dominate capital ship. so 100% of he "Real" battleships in game were designed without CVs being considered (Seriously) so having a game that reflects how they intended is perfectly reasonable. Also rather obviously German and Soviet Carrier fleets are completely ficticious and the Tier 10 Carriers are basically post war whereas the Tier 10 BBs in contrast are based on 20s and 30s designed which is why there were never built Second there were many encounters that did not involve CVs, and Submarines never took part in Fleet encounters. I'd be very happy to a have a game with only real ships minus CVs as I suspect would most. WG have an obsession with content over game play. Now you put all that to one side and ask what is it like to play against a CV in this game if you aren't a CV and the answer is you can't ! If you dodge you expose you broadside and get smacked - Removing CV spotting solves this but still hasn't been done!!!!! and it wouldn't affect CVs at all AA is currently ineffective because CV Players complained about it on numerous occasions, I don't fit or skill AA as there is no point but if it worked them CV players wouldn't have any fun either - the balance problem again. Then there is the lack of being able to hit back. CVs can site behind islands out of range immune to any counter and most annoying when I CV is caught they are stupidly hard to kill, this basically full time Damage Control Party - Invisible layers of armour that don't appear on the models. And why are CVs unaffected by Cyclones anyone? The issue is that CVs do not fit into the game Navyfield balanced CVs with limited range and limited Aircraft, WG have chosen not to go down this route (Navyfield also had limited Ships ammunition) and AA was fully manual as were main guns in many ways a much more skilled game. Again WG has chosen not to go down these routes preferring to rely on the Fates and this is the problem!

You mean like it used to be before CV players complained it was unfair and it was nerfed by WG so that AA ramped up gradual and took something like 30 seconds to be effective?

You wold think wouldn't you

Nor really but Myoko's rate of fire doesn't decease with range whereas the SEROV does. Lunch > Fire > Press F > Launch > Fire you get the idea

WG knew Submarines were a mistake they were repeatedly told before and during testing of the negative impacts they had on Game play but frankly they don't seem to care about player feedback. As long as there are idiots out there prepared to waste their money on early access containers and Premium ships they don't care. Look at how many Premium ships this game has! Want to affect change stop spending money until the game play improves.

Just get rid of this abomination! Where would you ever start trying to balance them?