DrMechano

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/182333-hotfix-0801-what-did-it-accomplish-and-what-did-it-cause/?page=3&tab=comments#comment-4279973 Basically already confirming another hotfix will likely be on the way.

They've already responded on the NA forums that they're aware they've swung the pendulum too far in the other direction.

IIRC he did those videos With the Haku not with the Shokaku or the Lexington. In fact all of his videos were focused on the tier 10 carriers attacking tier 10 targets. Not tier 8 Carriers attacking tier 10 targets. Also a tier 8 BB is still a massive threat to a tier 10 Cruiser (they can still lolpen through the front of all but the Stalingrad and the Moskva). However a tier 8 CV is of no threat to a tier 10 BB especially after the changes..

I don't know I've managed a 58% W/R with the Zao. Also you're forgetting that thanks to the 22% fire chance that you can often force a BB or CA/CL to use its damage con and the longer reload means that by the time the next salvo hits you're setting fires again. Forcing a ship to use its damage Con can be very useful. You're also forgetting that it has high HE alpha with a reload that isn't as bad as the Moskva, putting 7-8k HE damage through the bows of most BBs and other cruisers isn't something to be sniffed at. Also it has high velocity rounds combined with an arc that is somewhere inbetween the USSR and the USA cruisers, meaning it can island spam should it need to and get into proper position. Personally I prefer the Zao to the Des Moine or the Worcester because it can kite...not to mention the 12km torps that often catch people unawares. It's the only Cruiser that can effectively stealth torp (9.9 detection range with Concealment module and skill with 12km torps).

Surprised at the Zao having a poor W/R. Love me my Zao, in fact its my favorite ship. hell you can look at my stats if you like and I average a mediocre Zao player with only 75k average damage (with the server average being 77k) thing may not get Radar, it may not have the best DPM or AA but it starts fires like a mother trucker and can kite (especially with the legendary module and steering mod stacked, 4.7 second rudder shift time). So yeah...Go Zao! *waves flag*

See personally I think we should go back to the High Alpha strike style of CV but with equally high uptime on the rearm phase per squadron. Now there is only 1 squadron out at any one time, just make all the planes launch their ordnance at once. Give the Rockets a wide circle area to cover which means that DDs, if they're caught in it would only be tagged by 2-3 rockets instead of the 8-10 they're currently getting tagged by and would work great as an area denial tool or as blind firing into smoke to maybe scare off a DD. Torps, simple, old school style of launching them en masse all at once, reduce the squadron size to 6 but allowed all 6 to be launched at once (for both US and IJN) This means that unless a CV catches you out completely you're not going to die to one squadron repeatedly hitting you over and over (the 1 squadron thing also means they can't cross drop anymore). DBs, well we don't want to go back to the days of AP DBs oneshotting everything and their mother (apart from DDs) so perhaps take a look at the RN CVs, carpet bombing, make the area bigger, shallower dive (steeper than the RN DBs to keep their 'thing'), this works for the HE bombs as well. With this much higher Alpha strike also comes the cost of each squadron taking a minute and a half to rearm, repair and be sent back out again. Slow the planes down a tad so that there's 2 minutes inbetween the same squadron repeatedly attacking and forcing CV players to cycle between their plane types like the whole Replenishment mechanic was MEANT to do.

I think the problem is that thanks to only making them even tiers, the power jumps between CVs is just too great. The Tier 10 CVs are MILES better than the tier 8 CVs and tier 8 CVs get the joy of near constantly being in tier 10 Matchmaking...so whats the point in playing anything other than a tier 10 CV and just free XPing your way to it? You'll still get the same matchmaking, you'll have vastly more planes, the planes you do have are more mobile and have more HP. I tried the whole 'well you just need to dodge flak' thing and the tier 8 planes just aren't mobile enough and thanks to their lower HP, 1 flak burst will wipe out most of the squadron. Compare that to tier 10 Squadrons which can usually take 2 flak bursts before thinking about needing a recall. Hell I just had a game where my entire squadron got wiped out a second after I'd started my attack run thanks to a wall of flak which I had no chance to avoid since it spawned right in front of me. Honestly I've just given up trying to play CVs, it's not fun when your uptiered, the flak feels like an RNG mechanic and should have never been implemented in the first place. Yes you can 'Dodge' it but it feels like even if I make an attempt I still get tagged by at least 1 every and at tier 8 that means "oh look, half my squadron is dead...thanks..". If it was me, I'd personally mix this system and the old one, keep the new control scheme and...that's about it, everything else would be like pre 8.0, planes drop all their firepower, then go back to the carrier and you have to wait 1-2 minutes for that type to re-arm and repair.

Lets be honest there, it's mainly the Haku that's the problem. The Midway doesn't get long range torps and has to close in with all the other planes. However people are crying that CVs are OP sure the tier 10 carriers (well the Haku) are but I take it none of you have been a bottom tier carrier. Being tier 6 in a tier 8 game or tier 8 in a tier 10 game basically means you might as well not be there unless some BB on the enemy team decides he wants to yolo off on his own. Even then AA specced Monties will shred tier 8 planes. So here's the problem. CVs, when top tier, are ridiculous but when they're bottom tier, they're basically useless attack power wise because of the quickly escalating AA power (they can still spot but then you're just praying your team can basically carry you to victory). Being a tier 6 CV in a tier 8 game It feels worse than being a tier 6 BB in the same match. Why? The Fuso, New Mex and Normandie can all bring massive broadside firepower which can still delete high tiered cruisers if they screw up. The Warspite/Queen Liz and Bayern all bring 380mm guns which can bow pen +1 tier BBs and still give the tier 8s pause for thought. Not only that we're now seeing the 'huddle' of everyone grouping up to stave off carriers...which means even if I could go for the same tier BBs, they're usually covered by top tier cruisers. Hell even DDs have learned to hang back at the start and stick with a buddy to avoid the now infamous rocket spam. So what do we do in order to balance CVs so they're not god like when top tier but they're not Bantha doodoo when bottom tier?

I actually find the HE bombs of the US carriers easier to use than the AP bombs of the Japanese purely because they're ALWAYS going to do something unlike say the AP bombs which can frequently give overpens if you're unlucky or crap at using them (like me).

Noticed in your clip that the playerbase seem to be under the impression that planes are unlimited thanks to the respawning mechanic. I think WG could have done a lot better in explaining that planes can be readied AND that each plane lost takes 1-2 minutes to respawn and that an entire squadron lost can take 10-20 minutes to fully replenish if lost.

Yup Yeah I'm hoping this, however most people complaining that the CV rework is broken haven't played the T6 and T8 Carriers (or any carriers) and especially haven't played them in a bottom tier game where its god damn hard work to do something with them. Hell the Midway isn't that broken since it's mainly the Haku and its long range torps that seem to be the problem. But then WG, the CCs all don't seem to care about mid-tier CVs unless they're the Brit CVs. I will point out that AP bombs now require a lot of work to master. You need to drop High for BBs and low for Cruisers.

One of the common misconceptions I'm seeing is "BUT THEY HAVE UNLIMITED PLANES!" being spouted ingame. People don't realize that it takes 60 second PER PLANE in a squadron to be replenished. Now at tier 10, they can afford to suffer a few losses because they've got such ridiculous numbers of planes on deck that the replenishment mechanic barely means anything. You step down to tier 8 however and you don't have those kind of numbers, even with the module and skills, you have, at most, 2 full squadrons which one wrong move or sudden surprise tier 10 AA cruiser can effectively delete a squadron. As the topic says, people are way too focused moaning about the top tiers or more precisely the Haku without looking at how these changes effect lower tier CV gameplay. Personally moving all the DPS away from RNG flak bursts (lets be honest, sometimes the game will just dump a flak burst right infront of you without the chance to dodge) and fully into the old style system. I think one of the major problems is that the gaming populace as whole aren't use to carriers being in EVERY game. DD captains got comfortable knowing they could do their thing unmolested 95% of the time and simply put up with the annoyance of a carrier being there for the very few games it turned up in.

Yes but you take that away from a bottom tier carrier in high tier match and chances are you'll see them deplaned pretty quickly, especially now that they're taking the damage from flak and moving it more towards continuous DPS which just makes being in a bottom tier carrier even MORE painful.

I'm not a great carrier player by any means but we can see here in this (fairly awful replay of only 60k damage) the problems of a carrier being top tier. Especially towards the end. The enemy team had pushed into our cap while we were still fighting over theirs. Both myself and the Shokaku were, thankfully, pretty much right next to it behind an island...so what should have been a surefire win for this team, with 4 ships sitting in cap, sometimes 5 or 6, ended up being a loss because we were constantly able to flood them with planes. At one point in the replay you'll see me resetting 4 ships, one after the other. Also, as Zumbledum points out, the tier IV Carriers are just awful. They do barely any damage and AA just needs to sneeze on them to kill them. They could at least give the tier IV a 2 torps per run style drop. 20190205_212423_PASA108-Lexington_22_tierra_del_fuego.wowsreplay However if I'd have been bottom tier....yeah there was no hope in hell of achieving that sort of victory, thus we see the power balance problem.

Yup that's the problem, in the rare occasion I'm top tier in a Lexi or Shokaku, they're ridiculous. In +2 MM Dive Bombers are just useless, they spend so long over the target that most AA from a +2 ship of any sort usually just shreds them. I'm not entirely sure why they moved the heal from the DBs to the TBs.

I think the Carriers not doing enough damage stems from them being incredibly lackluster at tier IV (seriously 1 torp per run? Who thought that was fun?) and both the tier 6 and 8 suffer massively when uptiered. You basically become a really fast scout and occasional DD harraser (poor buggers). Hell even then some tier 10 DDs can actually output ridiculous AA against tier 8 planes. The problem comes from the tier 10s being, frankly, ridiculous. Even then the Haku seems to be the one that gets the focus because its the only carrier that can torp from long range outside most ships AA bubbles.

With an AA specced captain the Queen Liz was ALWAYS an AA monster. She has the highest AA rating of a tier 6 BB and can even rival tier 8 BBs for the amount of damage she could put out if fully AA specced with ManAA. Done it myself once and a tier 6 carrier decided to try their luck with all their waves...which they lost.

This is where the problem seems to stem from. Flak is either ridiculous or its useless. Its very binary. A good CV player will only take 1 or 2 flak hits at most (the ones where it suddenly pops up right infront of the planes) and a bad CV player will have their planes destroyed before they can even have a chance to drop. This means that even in a dedicated AA ship with very good AA, a CV player can still smash you into the ground. This does nothing to reduce the skillgap which was the intended goal of the CV rework. It is very pretty looking wargaming, I get that, looks real nice, however how about we take the DPS from the flak bursts and instead redistribute it between the constant Long, med and short ranged AA. Keep the Flak bursts for the pretty effects but don't actually have them DO anything other than signify you're under AA fire at long range.

Yup the problem is that it hasn't done anything to reduce the skillgap. Which was one of the intended purposes of the rework. Good CV players will still dominate the game, bad CV players (like me who has only tried it in co-op) will barely hit anything and get their planes shot down in a matter of seconds.

Yeah that is a little worrying that even their own staff don't really know how to play the new carriers.

Gotta say, the Rework is NOT making me want to play them more. Whilst I only had a few games (like 4) in pre-rework CVs before I decided they were for me. Tried them out in the rework and...well..it's still not for me. For example I HATE the triangle torp drop pattern that seems to exist on the 4-6 CV Torp drop pattern. From playing high tiered games I've actually yet to see a CV (even a good one) land more than 1 hit with torp bombers. CVs still feel kind of blech, can't really describe why but they really don't grab me. So...if I'm supposed to be the target audience for this change (making CVs more popular via the rework amongst people who didn't play them) and I don't like it...who are the CV changes really for?

Well guys recently went up to London and got some snaps that may or may not interest you. The Guns from the Queen Elizabeth class Battleships (380mm guns). You kind of forget just how big these things are in real life when you've only seen them ingame. What follows are a series of snaps from HMS Belfast

Picked up a book from a local charity shop which some of you may be interested in, few very quick snaps just to show you guys, looks pretty cool so far and considering the book is over 100 years old.

I'd respectfully disagree that the playstyles are exactly the same for all BBs. The Yamato is one of the few remaining above water citadel battleships at tier 10, most others have either had it lowered (like the Montana) or it was barely above water to begin with (Conqueror). Plus, as you've mentioned, she has the stealth and maneuverability of an Island (just in front of the Kurrywurst). I know I'm talking to a veteran but I think saying play all battleships exactly the same comes across as somewhat of a fallacy and a vast generalization.

Well considering literally every piece of advice I'd seen is 'skip the Izumo, it's bloody terrible', of course I'm going to take that advice and skip it. I really wish I hadn't now since, as you said, the Izumo is a prelude to the Yamato unlike the Amagi and if I'd have played more games in the Izumo I could have seen that perhaps I wasn't ready nor fit the playstyle of Yamato and not bought the premium camo for her.