WascallyWabbit

CV rework disaster, Puerto Rico fiasco, gold compensation removed from the Christmas crates, rigged crates to drop tier 5,6,7, CV 8 and 9 almost exclusively in tier order, broken promises after broken promise, lies lies lies, up coming subs with torps that's totally ignore torpedo belts, another release I have no belief in WG getting it right. And did I mention the lies. I'm tired of it, I just don't care anymore, on my main I have pretty much all the ships upto and including the T9's. But I have spent my last penny on the game. Yashima now, 20 inch guns and another broken promise by WG. Yamato will always have biggest guns in the game, but no surprise here's something bigger, not a great issue in itself but it shows WG don't listen and don't learn from past disasters. HE meta, faster and faster games massive grinds the list is almost endless. I stopped playing WoT 18 months ago for exactly the same reasons. I'm English, ex forces and a big fan of the British warships but even with that background I just can't be bothered , nor excited in anyway about the new line, neither will I be attempting anymore grinds. I won't stop playing the game I have a lot of time and money invested but will no longer spend on any WG titles and I also will only become an occasional visitor with a few hours here and there, World of warships is no longer my go to game, I got a few new games in the steam sale and what do you know there is life and better games out there than WoW. My questions to YOU the community are, are you still WG and WoW fanboys/girls, do you still care or like me simply stopped caring what WG do with WoW anymore, And finally, do you think WG will ever listen to what the community actually wants.

Its not so much after 5 years lol

EU server is their CASH MILKING SERVICE, never expect good freebies, always going to be lowest of the low, the least they can give away.....Ghengis Khan is credited with saying "you can kill a goat only once but milk it many times"...….We are the goats, just waiting to be milked. In the end Free is Free and not gonna complain much about that, but I keep my expectations real real low with WG and that way disappointment is kept to a minimum.

They nerfed the santa crates, you have to wade through all the 5,6,7,CV then t8 before reaching the 9's. The boxes are quite frankly rigged. Watched a ton of youtube video's and once in a blue moon higher tier ships do come out of sequence, but its rare...extremely rare. Then they completely removed the doubloon compensation for duplicate ships. The only way you can expect a reasonable amount of higher tier ships is if you already have most of the 86 ships in the event. On my main I do, I required 20 ships. I bought three of the crap T5 from the prem shop, with gold from first crate pack I bought the Exeter from the Armoury, I needed 2 or 3 more T5's in the list but as expected they came out of the crates first. Then a couple of T6 then the 1 t7 I was short....then I dunno if you call it lucky or the booby prize but I picked up 4 CV from the same pack. Then I used more accumulated gold to buy Witchita again from armoury using a voucher. Into crates again and picked up Irian and Bayard. ALL THESE SHIPS WITHOUT ONCE BREAKING OUT OF THE LOW TO HIGH TIER SEQUENCE, again rigged for t5 first upto the 9's. Finally I bought 2 mega packs each 1 holding just 1 ship. I still required 3x T9 but held little hope of getting more than one in a pack, packs appearing rigged. So I used accumulated gold and bought a pack from armoury again hitting just 1 ship. I decided another £110 or more to get final two was too much and opted for the Freisland with FXP and the Georgia with coal. Total spend was a little less than £200, £39 in prem shop, 3 mega packs I also paid for personally, 2 more packs were Xmas gifts from the kids and finally a pack from the Armoury. A personal spent around £200 another 2 packs as Xmas presents. I did get all the missing ships but the point here is if I wasn't already close to owning most of the ships I either had to spend many £100's more to get all the low tier junk from these rigged crates or never make it into the better higher tier ships. WG's greed meanwhile stopped me spending more, because with no chance of doubs for duplicate ships there was simply no point continuing to buy them. I spent around £200 more last year around £400, this year around £200. Ironically by removing doubs for duplicates I simply stopped buying as soon as I had the ships. I would have bought several more packs over the holiday period. To some this may seem excessive but I spend little else year round on gaming, and im sure many here have x boxes and buy the x-box pass and a couple of games taking their spend well above my £200. Final thoughts, If your close to owning all the ships, you will do reasonably well as you know you will soon get there. If your desperate to earn the flags or gold chasing the stupidly overpriced Puerto Rico then they are still worth a shot, but if your a casual spender with just a few premiums save your money, do not touch these rigged xmas crates, you will get T5's and 6's only, the chance of anything worthwhile dropping till you have picked up the low tier junk is miniscule. Either buy the ship your chasing for cash or just avoid. The value has gone from the crates. I only did well because I had most of the ships. The crates have been rigged, they are no longer random drops, They just drop almost exclusively in low to high tier sequence. BUYER BEWARE or BETTER STILL......AVOID.

It was a simple attempt to get people to spend 240 euro...no more no less, have no doubts on that. Everyone saying it was badly implemented and the commitment in hours simply underestimated is a misconception. It was deliberately marketed this way, no way does something like this make it through concept, development and release get past so many layers of devs and management and marketing departments without anyone realising it was pretty much impossible to grind. It absolutely was designed this way from the start we should be under no illusion it was ever intended any other way. Make it so difficult people break out the credit card. I hope this shows them there are limits to what they can expect a reasonably sane human to pay for a pixel ship though I totally doubt it. Lets not forget this title, hell even this company could disappear over night. A distinct possibility with many countries reviewing loot crates under the gambling laws. And even that lovely nice man Mr Putin introducing their own internet and removing russia from the world wide web and the implications that would bring. But in the end all it was was a crude attempt at doubling the price of a ship, a money grab. The fact it blew up in their faces will simply be like water of a ducks back and they will move onto another way to milk the herd. And again as I said above, the storm covers up the fact they quietly nerfed the xmas crates removing totally the duplicate ship doubs compensation and the PR storm has totally covered this up. I bought my last from WoT 18 months ago due to similar shady tactics. I doubt I will buy again from them here in WoW also, the Xmas crates were the last real value in the game, now that's gone and the fact their prices keep rising some like the PR 240 euro LMAO, no thanks. Mark my words T10's are months away from being sold in the shop for the eye watering price of 150 euro minimum. They have seen the price Star Citizen is charging for its pre release ships and want a piece of that luxury pie. WG.....your game is no Star Citizen.

This Puerto Rico really is a massive storm...but what it is covering up is the massive nerfs to the XMAS CRATES which no one is talking about because of Puerto Rico lol...absolute genius by WG. The crates have had the doubloon compensation totally removed for duplicate ships, and the ships now come out in order of tier ( low to high tier) ship are no longer dropped randomly. So you have to wade through the rubbish before you hit the cream. Lets not forget they added all the T5 junk also, not just the Cesare and Kamikazi. The sequence is T5,6,7,CV T8 before the t9's come out. And this in itself should be causing a storm but all that's happening is the Puerto Rico saga...They will not change it people it is stuck as it is for the whole xmas period before hitting the prem store in 3 months or so for 140 Euro....….. During the event its 240 Euro so even if they only sell a 3rd of them against last years T9's they will still make a similar profit. Meanwhile no one is talking about the junk over priced Xmas crates. I would like to think it's just coincidence that the crates are being over looked due to the shipyard controversy, because if it was all in the plan to cause such a big storm just to cover the removal of pretty much all the value from xmas crates then its scary what marketing genius's are working at WG lol. I urge you all do not buy either the Puerto Rico or the sad excuse for the Xmas crates this year. If you have most ships you will still do well, but if you don't you will wade through all the low tier rubbish first. Go watch crate openings on YouTube to see how bad they are lol......Genius WG pure Genius :) There is no value in the crates unless you already have most in port. Do not waste your money unless this is the case and you have most of the ships in the list. I was ok with random drop crates with more value in them than the cost but that's no longer the case, the crates really are a rip off if you do not own most of the ships in the list....AVOID.

Its nice you decided to judge the reaction on the forum, its also nice your answering minor issues like the HUd, but M8...come on update us already on the PR storm or give us a reasonable answer to why the xmas crates had gold value removed from duplicate ships or the reason the crates have been "adjusted" so the T5,6,7,CV, 8's and 9's now come out almost exclusively in that order. They are no longer random drops. You have to wade through a ton of low tier ships before you get much of a shot at the higher tiers on the list. The crate issues are kinda being overshadowed by the Pueto Rico disaster. But an answer on the border line almost rigged crates also needs addressing.

Do WG think we in any way believe they put this level of work into the shipyard so only 0.01% of the player base were able to achieve the PR. the man hours, development time and the budget, all this put in place for a hand full of people, I call absolute BS on their statements. You simply made it this hard of a grind to first milk away some of the accumulated gold players have earned, or the gold players would accumulate through the Xmas crates , meaning they would be buying all year round not spending accumulated game wealth. I myself made over 48k from crates and as the true cost became clear was still intending to put it into the PR for a time. Luckily I didn't nor will I in any way support the shipyard in its current version. The only thing WG did not plan with the ship yard release was the backlash from the community. The Puerto Rico like everything WG does was at the start middle and end all to do with making money, a purely planned and totally calculated event aimed at making WG money, doubling up on doubloon spends and double the price of the ships value versus other current ship prices. If they had been honest and said it would be A) a mega grind with varying levels of gold spending required to speed up the process. B) made this way because every player earning one at T10 would simply break T10 MM. C) as a test bed for future shipyard events. Then players would have been far more forgiving and quite probably excited for its future use and they would still have made a ton of money from doing part FREE part Payment for the ship. The Puerto Rico was simply marketed this way to milk away accumulated resources and gold earned from Xmas crates which many would have kept to finance the game throughout the up coming year...No more no less. A totally calculated move by WG have no doubts. For me personally i'm tired of these cash at any cost tactics from WG and have bought my last items from them. They screwed up royally,

I have no issue with loot crates in WG Xmas crates have always proved good value, I do however have an issue with them rigging the boxes so first T5's come out then 6,7,CV, 8 then 9's, occasionally very occasionally one might arrive out of this sequence to justify WG's spurious claims of randomness, but it was plain to see in my opening and many on YouTube that the boxes were rigged this year to pull low tiers first. So if you want the 9's you have to buy a crap ton of crates to wade through the lower tier junk first. I Thought the drop rate was decent and the value you got ok. But when I got to the T9's there was only one ship in the packs and little gold. Last 2 years you felt as though you had a least a fair chance of pulling a ship from any tier at any time. I bought a couple of packs myself, a couple from my daughters and grandkids as my xmas gifts and the final pack I bought from the armoury with gold as it became painfully obvious I was only gonna pull one t9 at a time at best from the crate packs meaning multiple extra crates would need to be purchased, and they were pretty much same price as buying them from the prem store individually with that drop rate. I was planning on keeping my coal and FXP for new ships next year but when the drop rate became 1 ship per crate I got the last 2 ships from the armoury to save over £100. I probably would have bought several more packs so duplicates would have been replaced with gold but they even removed that "honest" feature from the pack, you no longer get gold for duplicate ships. BUYER BEWARE. I didn't mind loot crates, they are optional and you are not obligated to buy them in any way shape or form. But do not think they are "random" anymore, they have been tweaked so you have to buy many more to get what you want or need. I bought less this year than last year due to WG's new and obvious rigging tactics ( designed I am sure to milk away accumulated resources and grab as much cash as possible ). For me it has had the opposite effect, I bought less packs this year and lost any lingering belief in the crates being random. And as such will no longer buy them. I stopped playing WoT 2 years ago due to similar grab it now tactics and I am pretty sure unless an absolute cast iron diamond of a deal comes to WG (unlikely) my spending is done in WoW also. You cheaped out and cheated your customers this year WG on crates and the debacle over the Pueto Rico. And will lose long term customers over a short term grab.

The crap storm over Puerto Rico is over shadowing, some other glaring kicks in the teeth for the player base, Mainly nerfs to the steel and other rewards for snow flakes which are less than half of last years. I'm not gonna complain much over this as they are FREE and WG are under no obligation to offer them at all, and in those circumstances WG are still generous but not as generous as last year despite massive increases in their profits over the last year. My main complaint is the loot crates...also nerfed from previous years with less and less in them ( I kinda expected this as WG have made it clear many players have a large amount of resources of all kinds and have stopped spending in game, and put in place things like the Armoury to milk away these resources as well as reduced payouts in loot crates all year to get these players buying again). Even worse is the crates now appear to be flat out rigged. I buy little if anything all year and splash out a little at xmas, I purchase a couple of packs myself and my kids and grandkids get me a few more packs. This allows me to usually pick up a lot of that years premium ships at a gifted or discounted price. Works for me anyway. This year however I required 20 ships as WG included all the T5 prems ( another grab ) whereas last year only the rare Cesare and kamikaze were in the loot crates. I first purchased 3x t5's from the prem shop, £39 to increase my chances of better drops from crates. Exeter I bought from Armoury with accumulated gold as well as Witchita( with voucher ). I then purchased some crates and the sequence of ships from those crates went, all the t5, next all T6 then 2x T7, then all the premium cv one after the other, then t8's and finally the last ships I required were the 5 T9's I didn't have. Finally the T9's came when nothing else was available. The ship drops were clearly ranked by tier this year. I always intended to pick them up and still made a decent saving over buying them individually all year round. But the fact is that I and almost every loot box opening on Youtube had to plough through first T5,6,7 before getting the better ships almost without exception ( there are some who still pulled the odd t8 before a t5 ) but they are very few and far between and you can plainly see the lowest tier to highest tier coming out in sequence. That means the crates are rigged the random drop chance is no longer random and you will have to plough through the low tier first. For many who only buy a pack or two they were pretty much gonna get the lowest tiers and its these players I feel for, and believe they were cheated by the rigged crates this year...the chances of hitting t8-9 before the t5 and 6 was tiny. I don't mind a Gamble on a crate to get a high tier ship but they have clearly taken away or made the chances tiny of pulling high tier from a single crate pack. And as such I think my 3 year xmas crate buys are over. It's no longer a random chance but a low to high progression chance.

Of all the posts here...great one to reply too lmao. Dozens of quotes about the massive grind and pay wall and the WG representative MRConway chooses to comment about an insignificant colour change to a tracer....It kinda sums up WG's head in the sand attitude on pretty much everything from this event to CV, rework and HE spam. If you simply ignore it ….. it didn't happen :)

Brilliant idea with shipbuilding port, but as usual will be far harder than advertised. The grind is massive, the biggest grind ever in WoW, the reward if you manage to complete it is great, but here is the kicker, its gonna be almost impossible if you miss even 1 day, the missions inside the directives are massively grindy taking many hours and battles, and get surprisingly more difficult and grindy as you go...even in directive 1 65 ship kills is gonna take you a long time and many of the missions don't overlap so you can complete 2 or more at a time just by playing, others are locked behind the Goriza...so you better buy that also if you want to complete the missions...In short its gonna be a long painful grind, needing hours of commitment each day because miss just a day and your screwed. If you have a life, a job or intend spending time with the family over the holidays then you don't have a hope in hell of completing the ship. Even investing the 24,000 gold right at the start isn't enough you still have to grind massively to get the tokens to complete it. Its a shiny new T10, and FREE, so should not be easy to obtain...but really, the hours and commitment needed to gain it especially if your a FREE to play player is just not worth it or probably not even achievable. Good luck to those who do manage the hours and commitment to grind this ship out but for me and many others I suspect it's gonna be a flat out pass or an enthusiastic start which fizzles out when it becomes apparent its simply not achievable. Also, the snowflake crates while free are a bit crap...17 gave me some standard, flags, 300 gold and a few new year streamers, Thanks they were free...but exciting ..not in the least. The steel on offer is also reduced from 200 per ship to 75 per ship. I suggested months ago they would do this at xmas as many people had a lot of resources stored so they want to milk them away. Even the xmas premium crates have way less in them than previous years....After the last 2 years of good xmas's I think the WG Grinch planned this years. Thanks again for the Free stuff, not ungrateful, just disappointed.

First well done WG for doing something like this, but...... there is always a but....3 skill points and a regular tech line captain after a year or more of competitions, promotion and hype train...you let us down a gain WG. I don't think Jingles should have been OP in anyway but he should I think have been on a par with The Dunkirk Brothers, either the same skills or a couple of minor buffs just to put the cherry on top of a very long and epic drawn out hype train surrounding the whole event. Maybe 2 minor buff's centered around new British Heavy cruiser release as russian, Italian and French have all received new unique captains. A Xmas gift maybe, the options were many and varied. To release these 2 captains as you have is an anti climax...I have 10 skill captains and above, plenty of them...Jingles and the other fella are probably for me and most just gonna sit there at T3 maybe never being levelled up. And that is a bit of a shame. Fireworks for a dev strike, anything really just to mark them out as one up from Captain Bogstandard, didn't even have to be a skill based buff. I'm happy jingles made it into the game and the other fella I guess, they are just missing that extra something. 7 out of 10, for effort WG, so close, you were so close. Jingles has been released like an old mans xmas present, Hinted at, nicely packaged and wrapped but when opened ..its just socks, like all the other basic socks in his draw. Jingles and the other fella are just a pair of budget socks.

Thank you WG, the grinds for these new lines have been long and tedious over many months now, but with this lines reward being a much slated t5, sap being underwhelming and the long reloads on the ships guns I can easily say thanks but no thanks on this line and take a break. A second thank you for the terrible cv rework and the probable frustrating sub gameplay, those little gems cured me of my spending on the game on this account and my main. I'm not one who wants to see the game fail, I would love to see it back to being a massive success but frustrating and fun sucking game mechanics have probably ended those illustrious days. I'm now firmly in the "I don't really care camp these days". Becoming a FREE player means I can just log in once in a while and play a couple of games while not caring about what's invested so far in time and money anymore. Gl to those who do care about a 2 month ish T5 grind. Enjoy and have fun....maybe.

Just watched flamu in a sub, after just a short time he was pretty much invulnerable only actually getting sunk on just a few occasions and only then on rofl stomps., and it was also quite worrying how even an actively running and dodging BB was simply unable to avoid the homing torps which do massive damage. It does look interesting and not a million miles away from maybe being fun and engaging for all. But a few things I think need changing to stop subs simply becoming another fun sucking and frustrating mechanic, an underwater version of CV. First the homing torps....they need dropping altogether, and the massively increased damage torps do also needs removing or reducing...why give a ship class the ability to simply 100% bypass torp protection ( at the very least you should only get 1 attempt at pinging both bow and stern to increase damage. EG, hit 1 ping hit get 25% reduction in torp armour, hit bow and stern with both pings maybe get 50%...but 100% ridiculous. ). Finally underwater speed should also be slower than surface speed...maybe 30% slower. Strangely enough it's Russian ships that will suffer least from the sub torps as they already have low torp belt armour in most cases, whereas German and the yammy who's few strengths included good torp defense will simply have this removed. It's early in balancing stage but I seriously hope homing torps are removed, or at the very least only 1 ping attempt should be allowed at bow and stern to enhance these torps not simply ping spamming till you get it on target and making the enhanced torp hits almost a gimme. Under water speed should not be the same as surface speed. Can't wait for those 2 cv, 2 sub games.....should be soooo much fun.

Unsinkable Sam welcome to WoW a great fun story. ( if you can consider 3 ships sunk under you fun of course ) First happy birthday WoW, still a good game at heart despite the recent bad mechanics like cv and HE spamming OP ship's. Also thank you for the super containers and easy to gain gift's from the birthday event very generous of you, but! …. always a but....I can't justify continuing to purchase containers like the Unsinkable Sam containers that if you do get lucky and get a mission that provides a ship which if duplicated now only gives credits instead of doubloons as I think the value has now totally gone from the containers. Credit's can be earned easily in game and the crates are very expensive at over £3.50 each so to remove the doubloon value and instead give credits for duplicate ships has in my mind rendered these crates totally overpriced and of little real value. The doubs value was always that value back up if you didn't get that ship you were chasing and could still be spent on other valuable in game items. Credits , pffft no thanks a total no no from me no way would I spend real money to gain credits, I hope you reverse this decision and return to the doubs compensation, after all it still gets spent in your game.

No but we do, I for one play maybe 2 hours a week now instead of the 2-3 hours most days and I now spend zero money on the game. If that's what WG are aiming for then they succeeded. If players are not happy with the game at the moment then either quit or adapt your playing hours and style to shoehorn in these controversial recent mechanics. The game is what it is, a great game going bad, but it's still playable, and sometimes fun but less and less with each badly implemented update. It's gone from a must play to an occasional play game for me. It's all down to choice in the end, play the game how you want too.

People are grumpy because it appears that they have learned little from cv rework, adding a controversial game mode most people don't want especially in the way these dev's seem intent on doing, bb speed, invisibility and homing torpedoes, dodging cv planes every 30 seconds while now being torp'd by an invis class with homing torps, why would you want to play a bb lol. CV will still focus dd, dd then can't hunt cos they got focused down, cv and subs just do what they want with no counter play. I just watched the game play from Subs question and answer vid and its a bit worrying to see an actively turning BB look like he has successfully dodged the torps only for them to turn and home in on the BB. But most alarmingly is their in insistence that dd will be an effective counter...I just don't see how (granted we don't have all the info yet). Currently dd are focused by the CV almost immediately the game starts, and yet the devs seem to think while they are the focus of the cv under attack and spotted by air and with anti dd play from other dd's torping in their direction and dodging gunfire from other ships many with radar among other things that the dd player is just gonna be led by the nose by the sub as he tries to reach the plotting circles in time to drop depth charges. They show beautiful footage of dd's attacking these subs chasing the circles and on every bit of footage I have seen there are no planes around and no other ships shooting. There is also mention of 2 subs per game, imagine 2 subs and 2 cv in a game. That's gonna be so much fun lol. I stopped spending on this game at xmas now as a FREE to play game its ok to log in occasionally and play a couple of rounds but i'm pretty sure that kind of commitment from a big chunk of the player base is not what WG need to keep the game profitable. They just continue to hammer square pegs in round holes while expecting players to stick around through upto a year of painful balancing. Footnote: I absolutely think CV and subs should be in the game they were after all a massive part of the games era of choice, but damn in these forms both cv and subs are a massively frustrating mechanic for many players, who I am guessing don't play games to be constantly frustrated but play them for fun. You want fun it seems just play cv and now subs, then your golden.

Just no, don't do it peeps lol....it's a stingy and pathetic grab at trying to milk away your accumulated coal. Also a personal "just no" for the Freisland, just doesn't thrill me in the slightest.

Falling player base means that to maintain the illusion of growth and stability they have to speed up the games, while in reality its less players playing more, faster games and thus maintaining the illusion. It's the same in WoT the player base has fallen if I remember correctly by around 20% over the last couple of years where as the game's played remains stable if not slightly increased. And yet games are around on average 6-8 minutes long compared to the 10-12 mins long in the first couple of years. Expect more faster firing, faster damage out put ships and overall faster ship's with faster game play and more open maps. Wg if nothing else are good at creating and maintaining the illusion.

Maybe if the dev's interacted with the player base first (novel concept), bounced idea's and concepts off them listened to feedback, their hopes and wishes instead of bulldozing through a mechanic announcing it's imminent and then as you put it "get disheartened" when players complain and appear grumpy maybe then they wouldn't invest hundred's of hours doing all the work you mention above only to receive negative review's. Maybe if they listened first and not, when an angry and disillusioned vocal player base get up in arms over the latest controversial and probably badly implemented game mechanic needing months of balancing to even get close to being playable and enjoyable for the masses. Maybe then they would be motivated and not disillusioned, and maybe they would get things right more often. WG's approach is and has always been implementation then fire fight issues, instead of properly researching, canvassing it's customer base, development, testing and controlled introduction of its new content. Like a small child they have the "it's my ball attitude". If they can't play the game their way then they are taking the ball home. If they started with a "hi guys, what do you think of this idea, should we run with it and what do you think we could improve from our first idea's". If they started like that, cherry picked the best idea's from an onboard community then I am sure they would be much more successful in there implementation of mechanics such as subs and cv rework. Not the current this is what your getting, tough luck, deal with it stance.

Its just another bad idea from a team of so called dev's with no idea what their stupid concepts actually do to the game especially the homing torpedo's because most just don't play, but if we have to deal with the next toxic and frustrating class why not actually have the subs spawn in the cap points, with much more realistic and accurate vessel speeds. I doubt dd v sub is very viable at least in the early game, lets face it a spotted dd is a dead dd, its just not gonna get the time need to interact and engage with the sub. it all looks very pretty the dd following the sub like a puppy on a leash collecting circles before finally dropping depth charges but as soon as that dd is spotted it's radared and under fire from every ship that can lay guns on it. WG have a great track record producing good games they have an even better one at destroying those games...Total War Arena's or the decline in WoT anyone. Wait and see is the best we can hope for but WG just don't fill me with confidence.

I hate Marmite

Finding a sub requires you to follow a trail of breadcrumb circles meaning your totally predictable, and good luck following that trail, spotted by cv and targeted by the other enemy ships....even now when a dd is sighted everyone attempts to shoot it immediately, now add in the dd following the sub circles like a puppy on a leash...dd wont last more than a few seconds let alone catch a vanguarding sub. In the words of Admiral Akbar...."It's a trap" I just don't see dd's especially early game getting the time required to track, attack and destroy subs before they are spotted, targeted and blapped themselves. I would like to see subs in the games but 3 years or so they have been attempting to balance CV's to spectacular failure, so I have little if any confidence in them getting another radically new mechanic right that involves surfaced and submerged vessels. CV and sub's deserve a place in the game simply due to their importance in naval combat of the era, but the main core mechanic in the game was for ship on ship gunnery battles, and that's what attracted the player base in the beginning, dd's have a place in the game now, that alone holds some tiny hope for me that maybe just maybe this time they get things right. Another spectacular failure by WG to deliver the balance required would not be a surprise, getting it right would be a HUGE surprise and that's a little sad because that situation should be reversed and we should only be surprised in WG failing not expecting it again. Lets give them a chance to get it right. ( pessimistic optimism ).

valid point unless they hit damage con