WascallyWabbit

CV will not be helpless, they did have weapons to fight subs, airdrop torps and airdrop depth charges, as well as the already in game rockets and bombs when they are surfaced. Also as they are a threat to the CV's almost invulnerable current status you can bet your bottom dollar that CV will invest the time to hunt both subs and dd's. Poor dd's lol...now led around like a puppy on a leash "making their movements totally predictable while sub hunting" trying to catch the sub circles while under attack from planes, massed gunfire, radar and now homing torps cross dropping …… can't wait should be fun....no honest.....should be great....balanced perfectly.....pfffft LMAO, sry couldn't keep a straight face through that especially the last balance bit lol

There is money in subs, hence WG will force this in the game regardless of the problems, Ghengis Khan is credited with saying "You can kill a goat only once, but milk it many times". We are the goats lol......it's a free to play game just play it as long as you enjoy it but I and I hope many others will not spend another penny on the game, I too have lost faith in WG and it's promises, if WG told me it was daytime outside I would look out the window to see if even that held any truth. Bottom line here is just that the bottom line...And this is just one revenue stream WG are gonna milk their goats like crazy with. Wabbit out, gotta go headbutt something baaaaa

I stated it was 1 scenario, I also made it best possible situation for the dd with other ship classes unable to fire at the dd due to line of sight and the cv simply spotting and not attacking, now add those into the mix one at a time and the situation is frankly grim for the dd. I didn't add other ships anti sub abilities because we don't know them yet but if a dd cant get close what chance do other classes have. Then the dd has to follow a bread crumb trail (circles) to even engage the sub, so is being predictable in its moves. CV and subs played a massive part in the second war era mostly depicted in the game, but can they be balanced into the game correctly I absolutely doubt that, its a case of square peg in a round hole at this stage of WoW's lifespan, which is kinda in the balance right now if they keep introducing controversial game mechanics into the game. CV and subs in a workable way introduced into the game would be nice and fit historically into the game also. I have no confidence this will be a short painless transition due to WG's past attempts at balance and the sometime's upto 12 month's for them to get the game into a semi balanced state again. Then even before the last mess (CV) is sorted they are about to introduce another controversial, frustrating and game changing mechanic into an already disenchanted player base. Many if not most of the player base just want a period of stability, not to be constantly bombarded with frustrating and unbalanced gameplay mechanic. I am happy for now to wait and see if miracles happen but patience for me and many others is not limitless and WG simply don't grasp this. I have most ships in the game, but I have not spent a penny since xmas, my premium time for the first time ever expired and I am now a FREE player. If WG continue to drive away day one supporters like myself and many others while the incoming players are one not spending much and two not staying long then the game has deeper issues than mere badly introduced mechanics. Its good there are varying opinions on the forum, because if we didn't pose these questions WG would remain oblivious to any issues and just keep throwing broken stuff into the game without thought, varying opinions give them the chance to at least think a little more about what they are doing. PS it's early days so assumption is all we have. But are you confident in WG this time around.....mmmm not so sure on that one.

Absolutely, keep them out of random's in a separate game mode. maps are too small, ships fire too quick and too accurate and the proliferation of cv and radar in the game mean dd is never gonna be an effective counter to the sub.

They simply won't have time or space, the cv already fly's around spotting the dd's, they already are due to good shooting from some players, and random torps and stupid game play reduced to 1 maybe 2 at best within the first minute or so. Your also assuming players that are good, work well with others will be the captains of these ships ( that's never gonna happen ). Here is a short scenario, div of 2 subs and a CV they are attempting to block the cap of the centre cap point, There are islands blocking every surface ship from shooting the dd which is spotted from the air. The dd mini wolfpack of 2 subs gets 2 sets each of "HOMING" torps in the water in a cross drop pattern (as shown in the stream vid ) the dd ( lets say a Daring that agile little beauty ) pops its hydro and spots multiple torps from multiple directings all homing in on hime He tries gamely to dodge the torp's after all he has hydro and spotted them earlier than normal. But to no avail, 8 torps from 4 different angles all "HOMING" in on his ship means he eats a couple and dies. This meanwhile assumes no radar is used, no enemy BB's or cruisers of any class are firing at you and remember the spotting cv, it's also assuming the cv isn't waiting for the actively dodging daring to give him the perfect broadside for his rocket planes. Finally the dd captain has to decide whether to spec for AA or sub duties. Again this assumes you have good players in every dd capable of using his ship like a carry boss every match. Which if the dd's are killed off means you have a sub class and a cv clas in game with no counters, one sided battles are gonna be the meta damn fast, it also does not take into account people maxing out exploitable game mechanics giving them advantages above and beyond what was expected.. Slingshot and F key ring any reminder bells?.

Homing torpedo's, homing torpedo's that fire so fast you can cross torp dodging dd's. homing torpedo's you can cross torp dodging dd's and subs so fast they can run down many BB's upto tier 8.....I see absolutely no issues with this new class, community is gonna love them sooo much.

I have many concern's but one main question for now, one which many people are just not seeing. Yes the short stream replay looks like it could have something worthwhile in the content, it looked like play and counter play ( even in the short video it took over a minute with the dd being led around the map like a dog on a leash chasing circles ) but what people are missing is how in a 12 v12 are dd's supposed to get the time and space to hunt a sub, instantly spotted and attacked from the CV under constant air attacks and as they are spotted they will most likely to be dodging incoming fire from multiple ships. Then radar, as long as the sub stays within the radar bubble it simply can't be countered unless it runs out of air. So that's the question how is a dd supposed to get the time and counter a sub when dd is already the prime target for every class of ship in the the game. It looks plausible in a staged 1v1 video, but in a 12 v 12.. i doubt it.

I wouldn't go as far as you but they certainly don't listen, they appear to be determined to keep the the game in a constant toxic reactive state and do appear to thrive on conflict and anger of the player base, without realising people's patience isn't unlimited. They need to stop introducing controversial content and instead, listen to the CC's and the vocal player base, and maybe just once in a while get the dev's playing WoW every week for a few hours to see what a frustrating platform they are building. From what I understand few dev's ever see feedback that isn't doctored through half a dozen protective layers of people and managers, and most never play the game. Just try your own product, like a chef tasting his food as he goes, that way the "balance" is always right.

Yes absolutely, like a spoilt kid they have a "it's our game we will do what we want, or I am taking my ball home so there" type attitude.

It's just too long a grind, 5x regrinding ships, plus you lose coal and if I remember right steel come Xmas from any lines you are regrinding, any xp you have earned on those ships is dumped on T1 so you cant use it. It's designed not to keep us grinding but to suck dry our accounts of accumulated gold and FXP in the hope we start spending again. But who really wants to grind 5x lines through all the fun sucking CV games and probably another unbalanced and badly introduced mechanic when subs arrive. There will be some try hard stat padder's who will exchange all their accumulated FXP and gold to speed through so they can pick up an obviously OP ship early. Most who do this will probably be very good players anyway so the best players will be gifted an OP ship to dominate with in their games. I get some players have a lot of accumulated wealth and currencies on their accounts and as such no longer spending and WG would like to reduce this and in this regard it's a damn good idea I don't begrudge WG making a profit. But its simply too grindy and offers OP ships at the end to the ultra dedicated and probably the better players in the game ( who will pick up these ships almost immediately by converting FXP ) and as such a bigger stick to club the general player base with. It's a no from me absolutely, I have no intention of regrinding 5x lines to get this, its taken me 4 years to get to the Bismarck lol. Far better to have given away some special flags for each level, and maybe a 1000 steel a little at each ship unlocked in the line (5,000 total over the 5x grinds) or the premium camo (who really buys these with real money anyway) for each tier ship you regrind and unlock with the final reward being a captain with a couple of perks suited to the T10 ship and a flag to say hey I did the grind. Also the extra xp you earned on these ships instead of being dumped and lost on T1 could be converted into a special currency you can only use to train up these unique captains. We then would not feel we have wasted our time and got crewed on this already accumulated xp. For me it is another good idea badly implemented and just shoved into the game like some 1 year old kid trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole. This is how I see the rewards, we already have unique commanders and nothing in the reward list below would give an unfair advantage with a worthwhile reward at every tier in every regrind. Flags/camo (each tier) 1000 steel (per line) premium camo unlocked for every ship in the line you regrind Unique captain for the T10 and a flag that shows you did the regrind. Already accumulated xp used to train the unique captain and not dumped and lost on T1 ship.

It also clearly states a separate mode before coming to the main game, random's ect, it is coming, and with the separate game mode testing first WG may actually have listened and be testing it fully before dumping it into the game. here's hoping.

already said so several times...it's a wait and see situation, but if concerns are not voiced then WG will just obliviously hammer a square peg into a round hole. So discussion on the forum shows different peoples likes, objections, hopes and fears, now just gotta hope devs actually get the feedback lol. But yes def wait and see, not quite time to press the panic button...Yet! NOOOOOO, I said don't press the panic button.

You think a sub entered into a torp run when it needed to surface, lol...good captain he would be. You have over 3000 post most are of a toxic nature, your a pro forum troll m8...I could argue all day with you and you would say the opposite or keep misquoting, fact is to give subs best chance dd's have to go, so they will become even more the focus of other dd's, cv and focused down by the bigger gun boats. So troll your next reply then jog along and find someone else to target, who knows you may hit 4k posts by the time subs are released. British cruisers for example carried depth charges and other than hearsay there are no documented occasions of a cruiser damaging or sinking a sub in WW2. The dd was much more suited to the role. hopefully the devs actually read the forum and can see the trepidation in most of the posts...again King troll, I am not anti cv or anti sub, I am anti getting it wrong on WG's part and adding in yet another not fully tested mechanic that sucks away from most player wishes of ship on ship engagements. Not simply being xp targets for fun sucking ship types with little counter. CV in this regard is a fact. Subs well I am happy to wait and see while remaining less than hopeful WG for once get a controversial release right. Peace out.

People are toxic towards CV because it's just no fun to be the target of something with little counter, yeah AA is now shooting down some planes, but they still just keep coming, still exploits to mitigate ever losing enough planes to render the ship ineffective, still just a massive hard counter to dd's, and end game they simply kite away stopping caps and whittling down slower ships that will never see or stop them. Yes its on going with balance but till they get that right they really shouldn't be bringing subs in...Ohhh I also saw this morning facebook post from WG they ARE coming to random after the separate game mode testing. Now dd are already overwhelmed with tasks, throw in a couple of subs and man ohh man who's gonna want to be a dd captain. Scenario, 3 dd's 1 sub 1 cv. The dd are the natural hunters of subs in no way are cruisers and BB's remotely proficient at sub hunting. Back to scenario, CV now has even more reason to hard spot dd's and team plus cv focus them down, hard and fast at the start of the game, now cv cant be caught...except maybe a Georgia or two lol. Meanwhile you now have a sub that can't be countered ( probably, unless some nonsense mechanic put in game to make them surface ), sub and a cv with little counter running rough shod over the rest of the team. If they come to randoms without being 100% balanced ( and when has WG ever achieved that ) then I just foresee an overlap of broken mechanics as they attempt to finalise CV rework then throw in another little tested mechanic like subs and the already fed up player base has to deal with another 6-12 months of bad gameplay while they again rebalance everyship in the game. It's too much too soon, for goodness sake just let us play the game :). I get your a cv main and desperate to protect your low risk gameplay but come on man, 6 months of broken new mechanics, then just as things start to settle and maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel they gonna throw in another quite probable frustrating mechanic and try to balance it through players anger and frustration. DO you really expect WG to get this new idea launched pain free? I'm not anti sub, or even anti CV, just anti bad mechanics thrown into the game and then spending possibly upto a year with bad, fun sucking gameplay while WG flounder around making minor balance tweaks.

Yeah I get that any ship can be toxic for a few players, from Yammy's massive guns and dev strike ability to shima's torp soup ability, but for the vast majority of players CV brings that toxicity to a new level, few love cv, many hate them and just as many tolerate them because we have little choice. It's the shear level of toxicity that cv bring to the bulk of players that's the issue. . Subs In randoms would bring that cv feeling as well, and given that it's around 6 months since CV release and balance is still up in the air and on going bringing another controversial vessel class into the random game and even more months of pain while WG attempt balance it just a stupid idea. CV most def should be in the game, they were pivotal to the whole second world war and beyond era that WoW depicts. But it is still a bit of mess (tho improving slowly and now at least bareable), adding in subs for 6-12 months more of "balancing" a new mechanic is a bit much at present. In a separate game mode free from random, maybe ops, missions or a totally new game mode then I am all over that idea, but not random, just leave it alone please lol.

If they are ONLY available in a separate mode I am all for the variety this brings, but another toxic class in random you can't really counter unless the teams bring specific ships and work together (never gonna happen in randoms) is a terrible idea. CV's are a fun sucking class which made the dev's basically change the whole meta and has resulted in almost every ship needing individual balancing now or in the future, and has taken many months to even resemble a balanced game again. So adding in another toxic fun sucking class to all those on the receiving end is a terrible idea. People's reaction in general to a battle with CV 's in it and one without is tangible in chat, the mood is down and resigned with a CV present and often light hearted and almost joyful when there are none to be seen. At least until the shooting starts and people find something else to cry about. CV and subs were relevant to the period and should be in the game in some way. Subs on top of CV is a terrible idea, and hopefully WG do limit them to separate game modes, events, operations or a totally new game mode, but I really hope they keep them out of random's and probably clan battles. Despite the assurance that they will be available in a separate game mode it doesn't say "Only" a separate game mode and therefore I think WG's drive for short term profits will outweigh the long term health of the game and we will see them in random after a short period in "a separate mode".

10 steps?...really?...you only need 1 step, buy crates till you have enough coal to buy the T10 Yoshino, so just one step really buy Yoshino with coal from crates :)

After the current update came the summer sale, today for example 20/07/19 is the Vanguard package with 2 containers dropping other ships, ships you may already have. And with this comes the bombshell that if you duplicate a ship and have the others in the list then you will not receive the full value in doubloons in compensation but only around 60-65% of the doubloon value at 7616 doubs. I have Vanguard so don't have its full doub price but it is around 13,000 doubs. I did a quick guestimate that's around £23 which coincidently is the "NORMAL" sale price they often offer ships at around 30% off every week of the year. This means that the more ships you own the less actual value you get. By buying these summer packs your getting the ships at roughly the same price you would anytime of the year they are offered except you can't choose two of the 3 ships and have to rely on dumb luck to get the ones you want. Even worse if this is their new policy to only gave sale price doubloons as compensation for duplicates then it makes Black Friday and Christmas crates irrelevant to players with a lot of ships. And remember in the Vanguard package your buying mostly outdated and outclassed t8 ships, made almost irrelevant by the terrible T8 MM and introduction of T9 and 10 premiums. If you are in the market for premium ships, don't mind the random generation of ships taking away your choice and do not have many current premium ships then by WG standards and only WG's over inflated pricing standards these packs still hold some value. Lets put the value of these ships into context, I bought BATTLETECH in the steam summer sale for just £11, around a year old, a full game title for £11 now that is true value. The current update brings us this disturbing price change, unannounced and quietly sneaked in by WG, I write this to bring to attention of players with a decent amount of premium ships to be aware that now, and probably Black Friday and Christmas the value in buying the crate packs has dropped to zero and I advise if this is the new standard compensation from WG to not buy these crate packs again. There is no longer any value in them. For players who do not have a lot of premium ships and who don't mind zero choice in two of the three ships in the pack offer they may still be by WG's over priced pricing be getting decent value and it may be worth giving the packs a chance. But buyer beware of the stealth change in compensation values of duplicate ships and take the new values into account come Black Friday and Christmas. The value has gone from these packs.

I did read package description, 7616 doubloon is over 5000 doubs short of the Vanguard, in the past full doubloon value was given. That equates to around the normal 30% of the price they always do when these ships come on sale. Did they announce this change to the compensation value? If so I can't find a reference to "reducing" the doubloon value of the purchase. So stealth reduction is a valid point. Receiving full compensation on the 2 random drops does not alter the fact that over 5,000 doubs value have been shaved off the cost of the packages compared to previous offerings. There are also no, flags, doubs or credits attached, optional I know but pretty much a standard sales pitch by WG currently. So a lot of value has gone from these packs, that's not good now nor does it bode well for black Friday and Christmas crates. Couple that with bad MM for T8 and the proliferation and WG's focus on T9/10 premiums these days mean value is just not there. In the end it's subjective, if you want or need T8 premiums right now then knock yourself out go buy them. just be aware that the compensation values are not what they used to be and the ships "mostly" don't represent what they used to. T9/10 premiums are the meta and WG focus now. value from whatever angle you view this is just not what it used to be. Peace out.

The more money WG make the greedier they get, gone are the days of gold in exchange for event rewards you already own or hit "hahaha "hit" something good in a crate ..a joke"...no point at all in grinding all weekend to get a few extra credits. Don't they get that gold or credits will just be spent in game anyway. Credits in exchange for many hours of my time over a weekend, get real WG, I stopped caring that much about your titles a long time ago. I quit spending on the game and only log in these days because I have spent in the past and although close I am not quite ready just to walk away and leave that investment. If you don't own the Texas knock yourself out, its a decent premium at that tier and free. If you have it and need the credits and don't mind a weekend grinding also knock yourself out. If you have the Texas and not desperate for credits save yourself the hassle and just don't bother, take the weekend off and play something new, I just picked up BattleTech in the Steam sale for £11. Far better value than 25,000 doubs for crates giving you a couple of camo and 15 fuel tokens lol. Maybe just maybe one day WG will realise it's also good to reward those who have supported them over the years and not just PIE them off with a few meaningless credits for a weekend of grinding. There is no value in WoW currently.

Because they have made a complete mess of the CV rework so if they bring the next mess forward "sub" we will forget about CV and be transfer all our frustrations to sub's. Therefore CV can be filed as a great success :)

They can't even implement CV mechanics after 4 years, lets not confuse them more with subs...lmao

I invited 2 players in the past, but would not inflict WoW on anymore of my friends at the moment lol. Good they freshen things up but no way would I wanna progress through the game again or try explaining to friends how frustrating it is trying to grind through mid tiers with 2x CV in almost every game. Only to reach a T10 where you struggle to make any credits. It's pretty obvious why T8 is such a toxic tier now and so frustrating to play as your up against 2 cv or T10's. It's because by making it a horrible tier to play WG make the new T9 premium ships more attractive. Sales of T8 premiums have fallen off drastically that's why you can now buy them in armoury. Making T8 unplayable means the new T9/10 premiums are much more appealing to those looking to invest, driving WG's sales while increasing profits. Don't expect T8 games to improve anytime soon the toxic nature of this tier means sales of the T9's are up. Refer a friend......not anymore, I wanna keep my friends lol.

I have little problem hitting DD with bombs or rockets, torps a little more tricky but even if I miss all 3 or 4 passes I simply hit F key and I am back hitting the same target 20 seconds later, multiple attacks, F key, rinse and repeat. You can miss 90% of the bombs but that DD is history if you just keep spamming it every 20 seconds or so. BB, cruisers, dd, it doesn't matter, just cycle the attacks at no risk to yourself. Someone posted in game chat a link to a WG stat which states CV are surviving 75% of battles. So pretty balanced then, The first 1 or 2 attacks knocks out many AA, rendering the target ships whatever the class virtually defenceless, the CV takes fewer losses and replenishes his planes faster as the depleted AA isn't killing anything and so once the target ship has been focused down Full strength squadrons are again hitting new targets at will. DD in the current meta have every right to cry foul play as do every other class. Admittedly the cv rework is still supposed to be a WiP, but I fear what we have is pretty much how WG want it. I don't think WG has the smarts to fix the mechanic or maybe simply lack the will. We changed the meta, deal with it appears to be the attitude.

The proposed change of up to 45 seconds waiting time will make little difference, all it will do is make people think they can contest caps, in reality it just ensures that the CV's food will be advertising their presence on the cap point/dinner plate without the need to search for the current 15 seconds or so, the attacks will still start around the same time they do now. Buffs to constant plane speed at the sacrifice of a small decrease in speed boost is another buff not the suggested nerf as most of your time is spent at constant speeds not under boost. As for higher bomb drops it wont make much difference, there will still be constant never ending waves and if the CV wants you dead your dead, with little real counter to even a half competent player. Most of the dev team don't even play WoW on a regular basis and have no idea what a broken mechanic they are trying to hammer into the wrong shaped hole. The game play itself is not a million miles from being successful both fun for those that CV or bareable for those on the receiving end. 1) Ensure players have to manually return flights to the carrier before launching the next wave, "endless waves of planes with little counter is no fun in any class of ship," 2) Have a hard cap to planes so bad play is punished and CV can be deplaned, come on 20-30 seconds between attack waves, ridiculous? 3) If you have to have ridiculous never ending waves at least have the AA guns linked to the repair party so that they are not instantly destroyed and are repaired at least until all repair modules are used up. AA is pretty much ineffective after 1 or 2 attacks. 4) And finally just 1 CV per side per battle whatever the tier, so that broken class isn't dominating almost every game they are in. Make your dev team play at least 100 games after an update so they can see what actual effects their often stupid decisions have on daily game play. All they do is look at a stat sheet...ohhh more people playing cv...it must all be wonderful fun experience for everyone in game. BB counter cruisers, cruisers counter DD and DD counter BB " the circle of life"...…...CV's well they just don't care, they counter everything without a meaningful counter themselves. How is that a good or balanced mechanic. * I played 3 battles today I waited exactly 45 seconds before taking off and commencing attacks. A small sample yes but as I predicted I didn't need to search anywhere I just flew to a cap being contested and low and behold found the dd without a search. Next I played 3 battles without the 45 second wait, I had to spend around 20 seconds on average searching for target then a further 10-12 seconds heading to the dd before I could commence attack run. The difference between the old and proposed 45 second wait was on average just 8 seconds for the first bombs or rockets to hit targets.* So in this small test it shows there is absolutely little or no benefit to the 45 second delay, and it doesn't have to be a cap I head to, it can be that des moines perfect rock, or any other valid point on the map. So the next patch means most CV are simply receiving buffs, buffs intended to compensate for the 45 second delay, a delay that is as pointless as most other tweaks the dev's attempt at present. You gotta ask, do they even bother to try these so called solutions themselves?