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Historynerd

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About Historynerd

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  1. Eh, rather common tactic; human, as well. Criticize the heck out of your target, and hope they don't get up and ask that you do it, since you're obviously so much better than them. I don't know, it may be; considering the first name choices WG chose not so long ago, I wouldn't put past them and their... enthusiasm in looking up Italian naval history. Still, not the worst choice they could've picked. After all, Da Zara fought in a very minimal role at Punta Stilo and then had his moment of glory at Pantelleria, but nothing else, Bergamini likewise didn't see too much in terms of naval engagements, and Campioni had too little time for that and was usually in a bad spot. Besides, it's not like Yamamoto fought in the first lines, did he?
  2. So... interesting tidbit from Gamescom, I'd say. ... ...If I were to take a guess, all of you guys will react with, "Who?" So, let's see who is the guy WG chose as the Italian legendary commander. Luigi Sansonetti (1888 - 1959) may not be well known, even to those who are interested in the naval war in the Mediterranean, however his figure is far from unimportant. Starting the war in 1940 as Ammiraglio di Divisione (Rear Admiral), he commanded the 7a Divisione (two Montecuccoli-type light cruisers), with which he participated in the Battle of Punta Stilo (off Calabria), before he was promoted to command the 3a Divisione (the two Trento-class and the Bolzano heavy cruisers), which he led in the unsuccessful search for Force H after Operation Grog (the bombardment of Genoa), the Battle of Cape Teulada and the Operazione Gaudo (which culminated in the tragic Matapan night). In July 1941 he replaced Inigo Campioni as Deputy Chief of Staff of the Regia Marina (basically its operative commander), improving communications between the high command and the admirals at sea. He fulfilled this role for two years, organizing the Regia Marina's continuous campaign to keep the supply lines to North Africa open and the opposition to similar British efforts (Vincent O'Hara praises its organization skills in the contrast to Operations Vigorous and Harpoon). When the Italian Armistice was made public on 8 September 1943, he remained in Rome when the Chief of Staff (Admiral Raffaele de Courten) followed the King and the government south, continuing to issue orders to ships and commands; after Rome was captured by German forces, he ordered his officers to cease activities, and went to Southern Italy on foot to resume his duties there. In April 1944 he took the role of President of the Consiglio Superiore della Marina, which he kept till 1951. ...So, that being said... While this is not quite the "fighting admiral" (like Alberto Da Zara, Inigo Campioni or Carlo Bergamini) I thought the Italians might get, it's still quite an interesting figure, an interesting blend of a sea-dog (as far as I know, his commands at sea weren't particularly glorious, but neither were they censurable) and a first-rate organizer (while much criticism has been levelled at Supermarina, the RM's operational command in wartime, after improvements it didn't work too badly). I would like to add a further anedocte about him. After the destruction of the Duisburg convoy, the Kriegsmarine liaison to the RM command (admiral Eberhard Weichold) went to Sansonetti and criticized how the Italians went about doing their things. His criticism was on point and correct. Sansonetti told him that he was ready to immediately implement any and all suggestion and advice Weichold could give him, if based on the current availability of forces and resources. Strangely, Weichold at this point wasn't able to say anything constructive...
  3. The first two names unfortunately are unavailable as they were already taken in that time period; the former by the famous tall ship, the latter by a submarine.
  4. The issue with names coming from the Roman age is that several Roman leaders were used to name the Capitani Romani-class light cruisers, so they're unavailable. Important Romans such as Tiberius, Augustus, Sulla, Gaius Marius, Pompey, Scipio, Trajan... all taken. And of course, Julius Caesar is relaxing onboard the BB. An understandable opinion, it's cool. If I might, could I ask just one thing, out of curiosity? It's not a leading question, I'm just curious. Does your opinion hold also for the ships of other nations? American, Japanese, British, German, French ships... would you still play them whatever the name they bore?
  5. I do not assume I have exhausted them all, but I believe I have provided sufficient materiel to give a good guess as to what Italian nomenclature costume was, regarding cruiser. What would you think would constitute Italian "patriotism"? I don't understand.
  6. Um... Augusta, while an important harbour, was not a major arsenal like La Spezia and Taranto. And, in terms of bases, since it is rather open and vulnerable, it was preferred to have cruisers division based at Messina instead. My point is that, even for an arcade game, we should keep these details as accurate as possible, if it's feasible. The names that historical ships bore during that time are automatically excluded for me.
  7. Thank you very much. Unfortunately, both Taranto and Bari are disqualified, since both ships were still in service in WW2 (they were part of the "divisione ruggine" - rust division). Napoli is a problem,as that name was borne by a predreadnought battleship, so I don't think it can be "downgraded" to a cruiser. La Spezia... Well, if everything else fails, why not, I guess? Thank you for your words. For better or for worse, our people have shared much, I agree.
  8. The recently announced Italian cruiser line has a total of seven ships that were built and in service, and three that are taken from designs (at least two of them, I'm not sure about where they found the Tier 10). These three ships appeared with the names of Verona, Torino and Milano. These names are not in following of the Regia Marina nomenclature precedents, which may have been a bit lax but nonetheless had a certain logic to it. This is a page with all the RM cruisers from the 1880s to World War II (please disregard the helictoper cruisers of the Marina Militare at the bottom). We can draw a bit of conclusion about what themes were IRL used for cruisers: Historical military leaders (eg. Giuseppe Garibaldi, Francesco Ferruccio, Nino Bixio, the whole bunch of the Condottieri-type and the Capitani Romani - unfortunately these names were largely used up in WWII ships) Regions and volcanoes of Italy (the old Regioni-class cruisers and the Etna-class - but the volcanoes were partially taken up by the formerly Thailandese small cruisers taken over by the RM) Names of the Maritime Republics (Pisa and Amalfi) Battles of the Risorgimento (Varese, Goito, etc.) Harbours involved in WWI (Taranto, Bari, Brindisi, Venezia, Ancona - assigned to ships taken over as war reparations) "Redeemed cities" (the Trento- and the Zara-classes) Others (some ships given names of birds of prey or colonial battles or mythological names that by WWII were used by ships such as the Spica-class torpedo-boats) Therefore, the proposed names for the upper Tier cruisers can be seen as inherently not following these guidelines, as Torino, Milano and Verona, while huge and important, not only are not harbours, but do not have any specific historical meaning in the sense that the other ships named after cities had. - So, what are some names that could be more acceptable? Opinion may differ on this subject, so I will simply state mine, and welcome any other opinion that may differ. Postulating that drawing on the names of former ships of the RM may be the safer and best choice, there are several choices that I believe would be rather good: First, the names I think would be the best choice would be the names of the remaining two Maritime Republics, Pisa and Amalfi (since Genova is taken already and the name Venezia may be reserved for a future high-Tier premium, one of the "supercruisers" with 254 mm guns) The next best choice might be to use names of Italian regions. Such names would be properly grand for important ships such as heavy cruisers, I feel. If a more "historical" flavour is preferrable, my choice would fall on names such as Marco Polo (a great Italian explorer whose name, while not strictly "naval", was nonetheless free) or Carlo Alberto (a name that would keep with the "historical leaders" trend, and one I'd guess would have been readily accepted by the traditionally monarchist RM). If names of people are a no-go, I'd choose a name of a battle of the Risorgimento; Varese and Goito would be the strongest candidates in my opinion. - This is it. Please vote on the poll, and please share your own opinions on what names would be better for these ships. ... I would also like to politely request, to all those who would like to come and share potential names taken from Italian foods or Italian-American video-game characters, to take their oh, so original humour elsewhere, as I'd like this to be a serious discussion.
  9. HMS Black Prince, an armoured cruiser that the British insisted on dragging along, together with its sister ships, to the Jutland, and which had the misfortune, during the nighttime engagement, straight into the German battlefleet who thanked them for the gift and tore it to pieces with ease. These names, unless they are kind of placeholders till they get something better (and I hope they are), showcase literally zero effort from WG to take care of this, which may be a detail but it has quite the importance. And, might I add, had they had to pick a name for a design-only RN heavy cruiser, I am morally certain that they would be a lot more careful and they'd take a lot more effort before picking a name pretty much at random.
  10. Fiume back then was part of Italy, after a rather complicated situation. The situation changed later. Bari, although not to the same degree as Brindisi, was one of the harbours that the Regia Marina used quite heavily in the Great War. Giving its name to a cruiser acquired after the war was a nice gesture. Well, good thing then that the Regina Margherita was in good company, like that of HMS Black Prince...
  11. Historynerd

    Fan made Italian tech tree

    Well, why not? Back then it wasn't so uncommon to fool around, at least in peacetime. I read that an officer of noble family was screwing around in a small boat, ended up being thrown off and started to drown. The ship's watch officer immediately ordered to go get him, and the captain, in a serious way, just told him: "Nah, let him drown; trust me, I'm his godfather, the family will be in your debt!" Also, when civilians could visit a destroyer in the harbour of Naples, a young chief who was trying to impress the ladies showed them where the local control to fire the gun was... and unfortunately the charges for saluting had been left there. There was no shell but the tampion had been replaced, so off it went, right into a cafe on the seaside, which was luckily empty.
  12. Historynerd

    Fan made Italian tech tree

    Or names bore by previous ships. Like the Varese or the Marco Polo, for example. Or something to fit with the historical leadership/House of Savoy homage, like Carlo Alberto. Venezia would've worked, since that ship was decommissioned before World War II and the name would've been free. And I doubt anybody would've cared about the IRL ship as a premium or anything...
  13. Historynerd

    Pizza Navy!!!

    Great to see these ships pretty much spit on the face of the Regia Marina's nomenclature standards and precedents. I think somebody thought, "hey, these cruisers are named after cities, so let's just name the three of them after the first Italian cities we can find on a map." Completely missing the point, since it was either about "redeemed cities", the repubbliche marinare or important ports of World War I. Pretty much zero effort or interest on WG's part about this detail. Hooray. I hope they can be changed before the release. How about something like Marco Polo, or Varese (precedent), or something more credible (like Carlo Alberto)?
  14. Historynerd

    Fan made Italian tech tree

    ...These names don't have any ground in historical nomenclature standards of the Regia Marina. The only cruisers of the RM to have names of cities were for the repubbliche marinare or the "redeemed cities", or important ports of the Great War for the war-prize German and Austrian cruisers. Torino? Milano? Verona? Literally zero effort from WG. It's either disinterest or laziness on their part. "Just give them city names, the first names you find on the map"... great attitude; there were plenty of potential names around there. Is there a chance they might consider to change these names before the release?
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