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About Historynerd

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  1. Fan made Italian tech tree

    I wonder, as it is now, would the original Zara design make it as a Tier 8?
  2. Fan made Italian tech tree

    The good guns are such only as far as the AP goes; I guess the only way to have them perform adequately would be by giving their HE 1/4 pen as well. Now that I think about it, I believe this might be a good idea. In terms of displacement, the same could be said about the Myoko, and yet there it is down at Tier 7... The armor would definitely be a troll for Tier 7, and that's where WG should be scratching its head, I admit. Bottom line is, as I stated, I'm a pessimist, so I brace for the worst possible outcome.
  3. Fan made Italian tech tree

    Hi, guys! I've been absent quite a bit myself, but I'm baaack! To be honest, I'm rather pessimistic on the whole deal, and I'm almost resigned that we'll see the Zara at Tier 7, if nothing else because I agree with Deamon93, she cannot hold up to the Algerie and the Pensacola. What irks me the most about it (I confess it's a bit petty, but I'm only human), is that we'll keep having the Hipper happily seated at Tier 8 like nothing ever happened. The Hipper also has somewhat decent HE shells that have 1/4 pen; if the premium cruisers are anything to go by, the Zara's HE will be outright horrible. The only "what-if" change I'd personally approve would be some strengthening of the AA, which would've likely been done between 1943 and 1945 (replacing 20 mm Breda with Oerlikons, swapping some 20 mm mountings for 37 mm singles). Adding torpedoes would've been nonsenical on the Regia Marina, a navy that never focused that much on torpedo attacks and largely left it to light craft, and I don't even know where they would've put the launchers on the deck; replacing secondaries would've been damn difficult, not to mention that there wouldn't been much candidates for adequate guns (even for the lone anti-ship role) in exposed mountings haphazardly put together..
  4. Incoming Duca degli Abruzzi - [WiP]

    And now it's out. And it's garbage.
  5. Well said. Yeah, and the opposite of that of the Cesare, which is a copypaste of the Dunkerque HE shell, and totally ahistorical. I guess WG decided it wasn't worth the effort to create a special kind of shell just for them (a bit understandable, given that it's not even a whole line with that gimmick). It surely would've had more sense than on the RN line, no question there.
  6. AFAIK, based on what they were IRL, Italian HE shells turned out to be overall poor fire starters; however, they would also have a very large AoE (Area of Effect) shrapnel effect, but it's too bad that when they tested it it resulted in lots of detonations. So they took the former and shelved the latter, and it's no wonder it's crap. The issue with the Abruzzi is that the AP isn't able to compensate, as on the Aosta you might be able to do.

    You're taking one thing for another: Italy surrendered, acknowledging its war had been lost, but it didn't surrender (i.e. give up ownership) its fleet. You can see article 4, does it use the term "surrender" of the fleet? No. Compare what it said about German submarines in the German armistice of 1918, and see the difference. Naval clauses of the Armistice of Compiégne (1918) I'm not trying to revise history or sugar-coat it, I'm trying to point the difference in official terminology about the fate of the Italian fleet.

    I wish to observe that, in official terms, the Italian fleet didn't "surrender". A ship or a fleet surrenders when its crew strikes its colours or lowers the flag; its effect is that the nation that had them by all means ceases to own them, and ownership passes to the nation to whom it has surrendered. The Italian fleet transferred to Malta and Bizerte, under the control of a multinational squadron, removed the breechblocks from all guns (save the AA ones) and the detonators from the torpedoes, and was thus effectively neutralized; however, the Italian flag kept flying, and the ships remained property of the Italian government. Some of them would be ceded to other nations as war reparations, but that was decided later in the 1947 peace treaty. As an example, when Germany signed the Armistice of Compiégne in 1918 (ending World War I), its clauses stipulated that a given number of surface warships would be "immediately disarmed and transferred into a neutral port or in default of them in allied ports", while all the submarines would be "surrendered to the Allies and the United States with their complete armament and equipment". Therefore, the surface ships would eventually be transferred to Scapa Flow, and remained there until their scuttle, but remained with German crews and under the German flag; instead, the submarines were given up to the Allies, who did with them what they wanted. Likewise, the Italian armistice of 1943 mandated the "immediate transfer of the Italian fleet" to Allied-specificed ports, "with details of disarmament to be prescribed". I.e., they were transferred and disarmed, but not surrendered.
  9. Incoming Duca degli Abruzzi - [WiP]


    Yeah, I don't want to sound hostile or something, but there have been quite a bit of posts regarding the Greek Navy and the Averof in particular.
  11. Fan made Italian tech tree

    In the latest issue of Storia Militare, there's an article by De Toro on the Duilio-class, which however says relatively little about them that I already didn't know about. One thing is interesting, though, about why on them the old bow wasn't retained, but was outright replaced. Basically, on the Cavour and the Cesare, despite whatever armor bonus it provides in-game (the chance of it mattering IRL would have been small, I believe), the added weight caused them to be rather heavy on the bow, so it was decided to discard the whole thing.
  12. Fan made Italian tech tree

    The author says that the adjective "automated" has been used for the 1930s FCS, but a bit improperly, since these systems have always required a lot of input from operators and left quite a bit to the "savoir faire" of the directors, which he does qualify as guys who knew their stuff, though. So there's that to begin with. I went and re-read what Friedman saw, and he was talking about the Centrale Salvagnini, the system fitted to the Cavour. Santarini says that, as it was a complex with all the devices connected together to reach the solution, it deserves the name "Centrale". However, he says that as a whole the system at most was contemporary to what the British and the French had developed during the war (no surprise, since he does acknowledge the derivation from the Le Prieur system", which was simply not enough; the most glaring fault was the delay in which the useful data came from the director to the turrets, which meant that it took a sweet time to get a useful solution. Also, it ignored the time spent by the shell on air (it didn't care about what would be called the "punto futuro" so to speak), so the solutions ended up having rather large errors anyway, When you ask about the scartometer, are you perhaps talking about the "gimetro"? Because if I have to be completely honest, I am still scratching my head trying to wrap my head around how the bloody thing worked; I've never been good at math and geometry, but now without it there's no way to understand that. But I got that, basically, the gimetro was included in the package that was obtained by the work of De Feo, Iachino and Bergamini, and in the Italian system its theoretical precision made it irreplaceable by a simple gyrocompass like on the foreign ships. He does state, though, that while all the other ships had only partially stabilised gimetri, which led to errors, the Littorios had fully stabilized ones that eliminated that possibility. Santarini doesn't say much about the Gufo, other than stating its immaturity and its rather modest performances, but he does say that the data it got wasn't automatically fed into the network, but it had to be communicated via phone. Oh, another interesting thing. Santarini says that, disregarding any other comment about what the Bolzano was or wasn't, either if it was a well-made ship or not, he does say that it had this going for it, that among all the Italian heavy cruisers it had the best FCS, even better to what the Zaras had. No issue, as I said this doesn't matter for the game. Otherwise the Montana would beat the heck out of the Yamato each and every day of the week. And we'd have a lot of people complaining about it on the forums, now that I think about that...
  13. Fan made Italian tech tree

    Guys, I wanted to share with you the book I just bought! It's only tangentially relevant to our discussion, but whatever, I think it's cool! It surprised me... for its detail and its technical complexity! It wasn't the "here are the FCS systems used on the ships, blah blah blah" stuff I expected; it's a painstakingly accurate on the theoretical and mathematical process with which these systems worked, compared to what foreign nations used. Practical stuff is limited, but still relevant. As a final judgement (not that I am not still trying to get my mind around this thing, it's sooo difficult!), the author says that the FCS was pretty much as sound as it could be, but what held them back was the old manual "follow-the-pointer" concept (I hope I am not mistaking anything... that is the translated terms for "sistema a controindice", right?) that allowed for human error that could've been avoided with full slaving of the guns to the directors. Two anedoctes: the author denies Norman Friedman's claim in his "Naval Firepower" that the Italian FCS was derived from the Barr & Stroud's FCS fitted to the Trento-class cruisers, stating that they got it only because the Italian system (developed by De Feo and Bergamini) was not ready yet; also, he says that in terms of FCS the Conte di Cavour and the Giulio Cesare were hardly fitted with the best thing available, and what they got ultimately wasn't on par even with what the two Duilios got, don't mind what was on the Littorios (I knew there was a reason why these two older rebuilds were so cheap compared to the last two).
  14. Fan made Italian tech tree

    Ok, at least they get kudos for admitting that their work was done using what a bunch of Russian dudes wrote about them, and only tangentially looked at what our guys could have said.
  15. Roma does not live up to the hype

    May be wrong, but I think I saw a video in which somebody managed to do that to a Yamato... I must admit it; we can talk about some other things, but one thing WG didn't do was touch the Model 1934's AP. They rule!