ScratxNeko

I don't remember playing with it back in the day... oooooh, right, I just free XP'ed past it.

I was describing the FORMER tree, with the Kagero at tier 9. Kagero's much more fine as a tier 8 and yes, Yugumo I hear is a straight upgrade over it. I don't have it yet, though.

Pretty much all the nerfs you're talking about happened before this last patch. So yes, relative to the last patch it was pretty much a straight overall buff. It's not bull. Now, that said? Yeah, I agree WG caters too much to the BBabies. I still don't think high tier german BBs should have hydro (but will abuse having it as long as they let 'em have it). I still facepalm at Belfast (come on, smoke hydro and radar? Really?). High tier torpedo situation makes me want to throttle someone. I could go on. But none of that changes the fact that the IJN DD tree got an overall buff. They already were deep in the crapper. At least now they're in a better place. Whether they're where they SHOULD be is something we'll be seeing as people get used to the new ships and the meta shifts to accommodate them.

Well, let's see the former tree. Tier 4 and 5, bit overpowered and commonly used by veterans for seal clubbing. Now we'll get to use the Kamikaze R for the same thing but that at least saves tier 2 and 3 from the IJN sealclubbers. Tier 6 and 7... wow, where should I start... utterly inferior guns to every other DD, inferior torpedo configuration compared to the Minekaze and Isokaze (lol) and longer reload on top. Also slower torps. The extra range as it turned out wasn't that useful anyway because the hit rate at long distances just wasn't there. Tier 8... NOW we're talking. Fubuki hull B (not the top config!) actually has the gunpower to fight other DDs and have a CHANCE at coming out on top. 3x3 torpedo launchers gave it the punch it needed, too. Still, not as good as Benson and the Tashkent, especially if it had to 1v1 either of them. Usually ended badly for poor Fubuki-chan. Fubuki hull C gave hitpoints... but took away one turret and thus was a downgrade. Tier 9 went back to crap sandwich land as it replaced the 3x3 for 2x4, which meant "See Mutsuki/Hatsuharu for the main issues". It wasn't competitive tier for tier against anything. Tier 10 ... well, it's virtually unchanged and I'm not going to broach it. So, now that I detailed the main problems? What WG did was basically accept that ALL of those DDs in the IJN line, as they were, were OVERTIERED. And rebuilt the tree accordingly, adding more destroyers and basically making IJN DDs competitive again. Because, really, if you were playing in ranked tier 6-8 with IJN DDs you were a moron. Well, the Fubuki was passable, but still.... So, we now have DDs that are much better balanced and capable of being threats to everyone including other DDs. Although I still wouldn't want to fight a Mahan or a Kiev in the Shiratsuyu or Akatsuki... but at least it's a much more even fight!

I'm pretty sure I've earned more than 400k free XP so far. I _used_ most of it, mind, but I've earned at least that much. I'm almost sitting on 90k right now. After free XP'ing up to Konig, then all of Bayern, the earliest Fuso hull, partially skipping past I think Hatsuharu... I may have used more here and there, too, but I don't recall. So, yes, believe it. There are people sitting on that much and more.

You hit upon the solution. Use AP.

I think this thread is bait...

One thing to keep in mind if you want a premium is also whether you want it to act as a captain trainer. If you do, you'll have to pick it based on which nationality you want to train captains for.

IIRC, while it was still tier 9+ for Takao I used Zao while solo, Ibuki while divisioned with a friend who lacks a tier 10. Then it got dropped down to tier 8 so I was free to Atago and Bismarck (when I finally unlocked it). Those were the main ships I used, though I also played the Roon and Fubuki. Probably an Amagi match or two, but not important. Once I got Takao, however, I set her up differently from my Atago and went on a fun rampage. Suffice to say she's ridiculously surprised me in the new build and outperformed my Atago build by a fair margin. Even while being technically at a disadvantage due to having an inferior captain AND not having access to camos. I got Nachi with her. I did get some lucky streaks nailing russian ships, but it's also due to the fact that with Atago/Takao I use Hydro and actively hunt down DDs... nailing russian DDs made it much easier for me to get the mission done. (it's not like I have real AA to boost with defensive fire anyways...)

You mean to say that in order to complete every ARP mission everyone would need to have a tier 8+ ship of EVERY NATION? No, eff that. It's actually easier to find russian ships to sink. I did it in two weeks and I wasn't even going out of my way to find and sink russian ships, it was pretty much regular play. We can't even buy tier 8 premiums for some nations... brits come to mind and off hand I don't recall a US tier 8 either. So, screw everyone who hasn't farmed out to grind every nation's tech tree to high tier, right? Some people... Edit : And making it lower tier at around 6 would still pretty much force most people to a very long grind or buying premiums just to qualify. Blergh. Point still stands just as much. Edit 2 : Also, don't take this post as an endorsement that WG's mission is all nice and peachy. I didn't like the requirements, either, and I know someone who might not be able to get Nachi for the same reason. But damn, get some perspective on what you actually suggest as replacement.

Yup, by making the tier 8 worse, lol. Then again, it's rather telling when they basically downtier their previous tier 9 with virtually no changes other than torpedo options and call it balanced...

I like the idea. +1 Unfortunately not everyone has russian ships to help with. On the other hand I have Nachi already so I'm out of the feeding pool. Although the big Moskva that was shooting up my Bisko had to find out the hard way my guns are bigger than his. <_<

3102 matches, 27 detonations. Yeah, about once every 100 matches... I think a disproportionate amount of them were even in destroyers, so... They're annoying, though.

Assymetric PvP invites ragequitters to leave early on whichever team is perceived as the weakest, thus making it even weaker. I don't see a way around this problem, either.

20% wider smoke puffs also mean the 12.5kn maximum speed on smoke laying to not run out of the smoke gets a 20% increase, to 15kn.

Thanks for pointing it out. Edited post to account for that and a couple other fixes I had to do since I decided to open up the client and compare notes on the skills I wasn't at least reasonably sure on.

Alright... I'll write up my opinion on this tree. I won't try to explain when it's absolutely self evident. TIER 1 SKILLS On the Mark : Useful, low cost. It can tell you how many unspotted ships are there within your detection radius and, thus, whether you have DDs on your tail. Not a must have, though, but if you have room in your build for it, it's an excellent choice. Preventive Maintenance : Well, finally an appropriate cost for this crap skill. Might be worth taking now. Expert Loader : No change. Aircraft Servicing Expertise : A must for every CV. Fog for the fog god : If you have smoke, you take this. If you have and you don't, you're an idiot. Dogfight : A must for every CV as well. Incoming alert : I use this in a handful of ships. Very useful at 2 points... a bargain at 1. Need WASD Hax to make use of it, though. Evasive Maneuver : Uhh... this seems to be an interesting skill. Do you want to retrieve your attack aircraft faster or are you okay with them being a bit slower coming back but much stealthier doing so and being more survivable as well? This one increases the breath of strategies available in the game and a good apparent addition. WG, take note, this one's a good idea. Haz more? TIER 2 SKILLS Basic Survivability : Uh... don't like it being bumped to tier 2. Unfortunately for us players, we'll still bite the bullet regardless. Too good a skill to pass up on anything bigger than a DD/CL. Jack of all trades : Cheaper now, but also only gives a -5% bonus instead of -15%. Your call. This is pretty much having a signal flag permanently mounted. Expert Marksman : No change. still required for epic MLG quickshots on most ships. Torpedo Acceleration : Cheaper now, still a trade-off between how much range you want to have and whether the speed bump is worth it. Two is better : Taking off with two fighters instead of one? Now that sounds fun. Not sure it's worth 2 points but it definitely isn't worth 3... it's probably appropriately priced and it can pose significant issues to carrier players. The faster cruising speed makes it a better torpedo detector, too. Expert Rear Gunner : Uptiered, otherwise unchanged. Last Chance : I am not sure 2 points is good enough for a 5% reload time buff when you're down half your health, by way of an example... the maximum is just under 10% reload time buff if you're at 1 hitpoint. On the other hand, it's better than the original. And cheaper? I don't recall, honestly. Might be worth it if you have the points to spare, not worth making a build around this however. Won't even notice the reload buff if you aren't at least half dead already, after all. Last Stand : If you are a DD and you don't have this...... mandatory for anything that loses engines easily and relies on speed and dodging to stay alive. TIER 3 SKILLS Firefighters : ... Really? It wasn't worth 2 points, now it costs 3? Dustbin it goes. High Alert : Useful but at 3 points... I honestly have better things to spend that much on. Torpedo experts : More expensive by one point than before. Mandatory for DDs and CVs (unless lack TBs). Firey takeoff : Operate planes while burning from bow to stern. This is fine. *sarcasm* Highly reccomended to CVs. Basic Fire Training : Yes... from tier 1 to 3. Really? It's not quite worth 3 points IMO. 2 points I'd still take it on most, but 3 is a problem because it's crowding out other things that are probably much more useful. Might need a buff to be worth the 3 points. Superintendent : Got heals, are a british light cruiser, rely heavily on limited supply of consumables? Mandatory. Otherwise, probably skip. Demolition expertise : ... Well, down from 4 to 3. It was well worth 4 points already, at 3 it's a must if you're not a pure AP spammer or a battleship. Vigilance : Unchanged. TIER 4 SKILLS Manual secondary fire control : Down from tier 5, otherwise unchanged. Tier 7+ BB should look at it, mostly useless otherwise. Survival expert : Still useless on anything but DDs. Oh, it's unchanged. HEAP (High Explosive Armor Piercing) : An interesting new skill. Trades fire chance for additional penetration. This deserves much study. Benefits definitely ship and tier dependent. Lower calibers more likely to benefit from this because of fire rate and suddenly having a much higher attack surface on heavily armored ships to deal damage with. This really deserves careful analysis, and is outside the scope of this post. Air supremacy : Downtiered, still mandatory on CVs. Advanced Firing training : Unchanged, still worth taking if you have the budget. Manual AA fire control : Unchanged, take it if you want to farm silty CV tears. Make sure you have a ship with the right AA types to make use of it first, though. Keen intuition : ... I'll get to it in a sec. Concealment expert : Downtiered, same effect. Still awesome. So, the net effect here. Skills shuffling around, assuming we're still limited to 18 points for all practical purposes, means captain skill builds are going to be changed because some skills got uptiered, some got downtiered and some new skills may be worth replacing others with. Some skills seem to be a bit too good and others too bad for their tiers. Firefighter and BFT stand out IMO in the "need buff plz" category for their costs. The ugly of the bunch, however, is Keen Intuition. This thing is just plain broken. It's a constant, infinity range, through terrain radar that doesn't tell you the range to the enemy and can only track one enemy at a time, defaulting to the closest one. If you can't see how just absolutely overpowered this is, you haven't realised that this kills destroyer island ambushes. You haven't realised it makes doing anything that requires stealth from around mid to late game useless if the enemy has this skill. That DIVISIONS can TRIANGULATE if they talk and coordinate. I could go on. Please, not this skill. Keep this thing away from WOWS. I beg you, WG, NOT THIS. Edit : Fixed a couple things.

I'd love an explanation as to why Bismarck and Tirpitz seem to have different sounds for their primary artillery. At least, they sound different to me and it's rather disconcerting since they're practically the same ship and use the same guns...

Keen Intuition is an absolutely insane skill. Really. What the eff are you thinking, Wargaming? If you really, REALLY must put that .... thing ... in, at least make it only work against ships that are within your detection range. So it tells you where is the closest enemy that's actually SEEING you. Mind, I think even this much is absolutely insanely overpowered and this will become the next "Must Have" skill for cruisers and especially battleships. Honestly? Scrap it and replace it with something else. This is just inappropriate. Edit : I don't think BFT at 3 points is worth the cost, either.

Look, let me elaborate... IF WG makes an actually CHALLENGING PvE mode, then it's fine to give appropriate rewards. The current "Beat up the stupid bot" mode isn't challenging at all, therefore it shouldn't hand out much in the way of rewards either. Coop at the moment pretty much works only as a trainer for basic gunnery and movement. A primer to get you in the PvP action. If you can't have fun because it's PvP, okay, stick to PvE... but this game isn't really currently designed to give you a proper PvE experience.

Given how moronically easy coop battles are, giving more rewards to them just sounds wrong to me...

Dude, you have about 150 matches with 40% win rate globally. You're a newbie. I understand wanting to push the envelope to get ARP action but I don't see it working. You need to learn the game to actually squeeze in-game performance out of the time invested in playing any ship. Side note, Leander as a british CL ..... WILL BE FOCUS FIRED. Sorry, but those new ships have annoying consumable options that make them a "KILL ON SIGHT" priority for just about everyone. You WILL be nuked in it, regularly, if you don't know what you are doing. Atlanta is squishy and annoying, also likely to get focus fired on sight but nowhere near as much as a Leander or any high tier british CL. Hmm. Indianapolis is a good ship. Learn to use those American Piercing shells and you'll do alright. Honestly, if you're that desperate to go high tier to get hot ARP action, let me give you a hand... That should get you started with the Indianapolis. And the Atlanta. Enjoy the humor along with the tips. Looking up more videos/reviews/etc that feature those ships and how to play them is HIGHLY recommended so you can learn the ropes somewhat before wasting time smashing your face repeatedly against the windscreens of enemy ships.

You committed the cardinal sin of being spotted in a convenient place to being shot at by the entire(?) enemy team, possibly also being the juiciest target on top. The Kongo was smart, you should've followed. Possibly too late, though. There's nothing to be done about focus fire, it's part of the game and it's part of the game learning how to position yourself such that you can minimize focus fire on you. Learn and move on. Edit : Listen to Nethraniel, too. You shouldn't buy premium ships for tiers you haven't unlocked a tech tree ship at. The game looks way different at higher tiers than at lower tiers. Insta-deletions of cruisers, for example, are quite common at high tier if the cruiser player hasn't learned how to WASD, armor angling, etc.

My god, what did I just watch. That's a trainwreck of a player if I have ever seen one. Was he drunk? Kept going against Transylvania and then tried to shoot THROUGH it multiple times? .... Devs, please tell him to only stream sober and without hot ladies distracting him. Or, if he really is this bad sober, pretend he is drunk and spare yourselves the embarassment. <_< With that said, the mode does look fun and I'm eager to get some matches in it.

... No, Tirpitz with Bisko secondaries would be just straight up upgrade over Bisko. The ship is perfectly fine as is. You can pick having short range torps or superior secondaries. All balanced.