eXzession

Irgendwann Nachmittags um halb vier kommt ein Typ names Exi angelaufen und verlangt klare Ansagen: 1. Soll ich nur 105er bzw. 128er (Multifunktionsgeschütze) in dem Entwurf verbasteln (ich würde nur Multifunktionsgeschütze verbauen, alleine schon wegen der Redundanten Feuerleitung)? 2. Welche Geschwindigkeit ist für die BBs gefordert? 33 KN gehen nur, wenn ich auf Panzerung / Bewaffnung verzichte 3. Wie sieht der allgemeine Plan aus? BBs -> 27 KN, BCs -> 33 Knoten, CAs / CLs 33 KN? 4. Welche Reichweite ist gefordert? 5. Soll ein Funkdauerbegrenzungsgerät verbaut werden?

Mein 40.6 cm Entwurf ist Müll. Im Endeffekt läuft es auf 48000 raus. Ich muss da noch einmal ans Zeichenbrett.

Meine H-Klasse: H-Klasse, Germany Battlesip laid down 1940 (Engine 1941) Displacement: 43.596 t light; 47.058 t standard; 50.178 t normal; 52.674 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (904,81 ft / 820,21 ft) x 108,27 ft x (36,09 / 37,50 ft) (275,78 m / 250,00 m) x 33,00 m x (11,00 / 11,43 m) Armament: 9 - 15,98" / 406 mm 52,0 cal guns - 2.204,62lbs / 1.000,00kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1940 Model 3 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, majority forward 1 raised mount - superfiring 28 - 5,04" / 128 mm 45,0 cal guns - 88,18lbs / 40,00kg shells, 400 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1940 Model 14 x Twin mounts on sides amidships 6 raised mounts 80 - 2,17" / 55,0 mm 77,0 cal guns - 5,76lbs / 2,61kg shells, 1.000 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1940 Model 20 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread 10 raised mounts Weight of broadside 22.772 lbs / 10.329 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 12,6" / 320 mm 451,12 ft / 137,50 m 12,50 ft / 3,81 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 85% of normal length Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces - Torpedo Bulkhead: 1,77" / 45 mm 451,12 ft / 137,50 m 33,30 ft / 10,15 m - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 16,5" / 419 mm 13,8" / 350 mm 13,8" / 350 mm 2nd: 1,18" / 30 mm 0,59" / 15 mm 0,59" / 15 mm - Armoured deck - single deck: 4,72" / 120 mm For and Aft decks - Conning towers: Forward 15,75" / 400 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 240.505 shp / 179.417 Kw = 33,00 kts Range 10.000nm at 15,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 5.616 tons Complement: 1.676 - 2.179 Cost: £28,464 million / $113,858 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 4.215 tons, 8,4% Armour: 12.911 tons, 25,7% - Belts: 3.124 tons, 6,2% - Torpedo bulkhead: 985 tons, 2,0% - Armament: 4.344 tons, 8,7% - Armour Deck: 3.997 tons, 8,0% - Conning Tower: 462 tons, 0,9% Machinery: 6.356 tons, 12,7% Hull, fittings & equipment: 20.039 tons, 39,9% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6.582 tons, 13,1% Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 0,1% - On freeboard deck: 50 tons - Above deck: 25 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 62.574 lbs / 28.383 Kg = 30,6 x 16,0 " / 406 mm shells or 7,6 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10 Metacentric height 6,7 ft / 2,0 m Roll period: 17,6 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,91 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,15 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a straight bulbous bow and a round stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,548 / 0,554 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,58 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 28,64 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 60,00 degrees Stern overhang: 16,40 ft / 5,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 25,00%, 39,37 ft / 12,00 m, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m - Aft deck: 25,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m - Quarter deck: 20,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m - Average freeboard: 30,51 ft / 9,30 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104,7% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 207,6% Waterplane Area: 61.858 Square feet or 5.747 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105% Structure weight / hull surface area: 228 lbs/sq ft or 1.114 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,94 - Longitudinal: 1,77 - Overall: 1,00 Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Ich würde locker nach den 35000t konstruieren - vielleicht 1,500 Tonnen drüber, das kann ja passieren. Wir sollten uns vier BBs einplanen: Zwei mit 35000-36000 und dann, sollte die Eskalationsklausel zum Tragen kommen die beiden 45000-46000er.

Bemerkungen: - Die Entwürfe wurden so designt, das sie raues Wetter aushalten und dort auch funktionieren. - Ich habe absichtlich auf viele Rohre und viel Panzerung verzichtet, damit das Schiff brauchbar im Wasser liegt. - Die 10.000 Tonnen bzw. 8000 Tonnen sind halt ein Hindernis Dennoch glaube ich, das meine Entwürfe wesentlich besser sind als die Orginal Hippers sind.

Meine 155mm (treaty) Version: Scheer Klasse, Germany Cruiser (CL) laid down 1936 (Engine 1937) Displacement: 8.063 t light; 8.410 t standard; 9.354 t normal; 10.110 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (576,07 ft / 557,74 ft) x 55,77 ft x (26,25 / 27,63 ft) (175,59 m / 170,00 m) x 17,00 m x (8,00 / 8,42 m) Armament: 9 - 6,10" / 155 mm 60,0 cal guns - 124,45lbs / 56,45kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1936 Model 3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward 1 raised mount - superfiring 8 - 4,13" / 105 mm 63,0 cal guns - 34,39lbs / 15,60kg shells, 200 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model 4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread 2 raised mounts 32 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 83,0 cal guns - 1,77lbs / 0,80kg shells, 1.000 per gun Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model 8 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread 4 raised mounts 16 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm 65,0 cal guns - 0,27lbs / 0,12kg shells, 2.000 per gun Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model 4 x Quad mounts on centreline, evenly spread 4 raised mounts Weight of broadside 1.456 lbs / 661 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 3,15" / 80 mm 387,14 ft / 118,00 m 9,35 ft / 2,85 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 107% of normal length - Hull Bulges: 0,39" / 10 mm 387,14 ft / 118,00 m 9,71 ft / 2,96 m - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 4,13" / 105 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 2nd: 0,59" / 15 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: 1,18" / 30 mm For and Aft decks - Conning towers: Forward 3,94" / 100 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 90.347 shp / 67.399 Kw = 33,00 kts Range 8.000nm at 15,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1.699 tons Complement: 475 - 618 Cost: £4,383 million / $17,533 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 562 tons, 6,0% Armour: 1.173 tons, 12,5% - Belts: 460 tons, 4,9% - Bulges: 55 tons, 0,6% - Armament: 277 tons, 3,0% - Armour Deck: 343 tons, 3,7% - Conning Tower: 38 tons, 0,4% Machinery: 2.504 tons, 26,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.800 tons, 40,6% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.291 tons, 13,8% Miscellaneous weights: 24 tons, 0,3% - On freeboard deck: 16 tons - Above deck: 8 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 10.172 lbs / 4.614 Kg = 89,5 x 6,1 " / 155 mm shells or 1,3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,11 Metacentric height 2,5 ft / 0,8 m Roll period: 14,7 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,58 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,63 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, an extended bulbous bow and a round stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,401 / 0,412 Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 23,62 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 31 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees Stern overhang: 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,50%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 35,50%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Quarter deck: 17,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Average freeboard: 23,43 ft / 7,14 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106,6% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 176,4% Waterplane Area: 19.160 Square feet or 1.780 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116% Structure weight / hull surface area: 103 lbs/sq ft or 504 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,88 - Longitudinal: 3,27 - Overall: 1,00 Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Ich präsentiere: SMS Wichita... ähh "Treaty Admiral Hipper" 203mm Treaty Admiral Hipper , Germany Cruiser (CA) laid down 1936 (Engine 1937) Displacement: 10.287 t light; 10.793 t standard; 11.873 t normal; 12.738 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (608,88 ft / 590,55 ft) x 59,06 ft x (26,25 / 27,60 ft) (185,59 m / 180,00 m) x 18,00 m x (8,00 / 8,41 m) Armament: 9 - 7,99" / 203 mm 60,0 cal guns - 268,96lbs / 122,00kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1936 Model 3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward 1 raised mount - superfiring 8 - 4,13" / 105 mm 63,0 cal guns - 34,39lbs / 15,60kg shells, 200 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model 4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread 2 raised mounts 32 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 83,0 cal guns - 1,77lbs / 0,80kg shells, 1.000 per gun Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model 8 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread 4 raised mounts 16 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm 65,0 cal guns - 0,27lbs / 0,12kg shells, 2.000 per gun Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model 4 x Quad mounts on centreline, evenly spread 4 raised mounts Weight of broadside 2.757 lbs / 1.250 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 416,67 ft / 127,00 m 9,35 ft / 2,85 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 109% of normal length - Hull Bulges: 0,39" / 10 mm 416,67 ft / 127,00 m 9,71 ft / 2,96 m - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 4,13" / 105 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 2nd: 0,59" / 15 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: 1,77" / 45 mm For and Aft decks - Conning towers: Forward 6,30" / 160 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 104.465 shp / 77.931 Kw = 33,00 kts Range 8.000nm at 15,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1.945 tons Complement: 568 - 739 Cost: £5,998 million / $23,992 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1.078 tons, 9,1% Armour: 1.848 tons, 15,6% - Belts: 743 tons, 6,3% - Bulges: 59 tons, 0,5% - Armament: 372 tons, 3,1% - Armour Deck: 603 tons, 5,1% - Conning Tower: 71 tons, 0,6% Machinery: 2.895 tons, 24,4% Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.442 tons, 37,4% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.587 tons, 13,4% Miscellaneous weights: 24 tons, 0,2% - On freeboard deck: 16 tons - Above deck: 8 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 11.636 lbs / 5.278 Kg = 45,6 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 1,4 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,05 Metacentric height 2,5 ft / 0,8 m Roll period: 15,7 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,91 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,37 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, an extended bulbous bow and a round stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,454 / 0,463 Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 24,30 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 37 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees Stern overhang: 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,50%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 36,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Quarter deck: 16,50%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Average freeboard: 23,43 ft / 7,14 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107,8% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171,9% Waterplane Area: 22.319 Square feet or 2.074 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106% Structure weight / hull surface area: 117 lbs/sq ft or 570 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,90 - Longitudinal: 2,58 - Overall: 1,00 Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily Ich bin etwas (700 Tonnen) über die Grenze hinausgeschossen, damit das Schiff in rauer See was taugt. Dafür habe ich etwas Panzerung eingespart und diese um 10° angewinkelt.

Ich werde zwei Designs machen: Eins mit 14500 und eins mit 10000T. Bei den BBs würde ich bei den 35000T bleiben. Wegen 5K Tonnen will ich keinen Stress haben

@1MajorKoenig @Walther_K_Nehring @DeadMemories @Dullman84 @linkum @Hargen_Tannhaus Meine Washington Kreuzer werden sich an der USS Wichita (CA) orientieren. In wie weit ich den Rumpf auch als CL verwenden kann, muss ich dann überprüfen.

@1MajorKoenig Ich will erst einmal einen brauchbaren Kreuzer hinbekommen, dann bastle ich am BB rum.

Na toll. Morgen versuche ich dann (wenn ich dazu in der Lage bin) einen WC-CA und einen WC CL zu bauen.

Punkt 1 und 3: Fehler meinerseits. - 80mm und 30mm hatten die Hippers auch (ich will nicht den ganzen Entwurf für Müll erklären) - Es gibt noch keinen brauchbaren (zuverlässigen) Diesel zu dem Zeitpunkt. Deswegen. Niedrigdruck-Dampfturbinen. Bewährt und getestet. Habe bei beiden Hippers den Torpedoschutz angepasst 203mm Version: Admiral Hipper, Germany Cruiser (CA) laid down 1936 (Engine 1937) Displacement: 11.594 t light; 12.167 t standard; 14.488 t normal; 16.345 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (675,85 ft / 633,20 ft) x 65,62 ft x (26,25 / 28,67 ft) (206,00 m / 193,00 m) x 20,00 m x (8,00 / 8,74 m) Armament: 9 - 7,99" / 203 mm 60,0 cal guns - 268,96lbs / 122,00kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1936 Model 3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward 1 raised mount - superfiring 12 - 4,13" / 105 mm 63,0 cal guns - 34,39lbs / 15,60kg shells, 200 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model 6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread 4 raised mounts 32 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 83,0 cal guns - 1,77lbs / 0,80kg shells, 1.000 per gun Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model 8 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread 4 raised mounts 16 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm 65,0 cal guns - 0,27lbs / 0,12kg shells, 2.000 per gun Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model 4 x Quad mounts on centreline, evenly spread 4 raised mounts Weight of broadside 2.894 lbs / 1.313 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 3,15" / 80 mm 400,26 ft / 122,00 m 9,71 ft / 2,96 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 97% of normal length - Hull Bulges: 0,79" / 20 mm 398,43 ft / 121,44 m 9,71 ft / 2,96 m - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 4,13" / 105 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 2nd: 0,59" / 15 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: 1,18" / 30 mm For and Aft decks - Conning towers: Forward 4,13" / 105 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 115.623 shp / 86.255 Kw = 33,00 kts Range 8.000nm at 20,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 4.178 tons Complement: 659 - 858 Cost: £6,579 million / $26,314 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1.129 tons, 7,8% Armour: 1.546 tons, 10,7% - Belts: 505 tons, 3,5% - Bulges: 113 tons, 0,8% - Armament: 375 tons, 2,6% - Armour Deck: 501 tons, 3,5% - Conning Tower: 53 tons, 0,4% Machinery: 3.205 tons, 22,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 5.690 tons, 39,3% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.895 tons, 20,0% Miscellaneous weights: 24 tons, 0,2% - On freeboard deck: 16 tons - Above deck: 8 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 17.747 lbs / 8.050 Kg = 69,5 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 1,8 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,15 Metacentric height 3,4 ft / 1,0 m Roll period: 14,9 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,60 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,28 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, an extended bulbous bow and a round stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,465 / 0,480 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,65 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 25,16 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 45,00 degrees Stern overhang: 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 30,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Quarter deck: 20,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Average freeboard: 23,49 ft / 7,16 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96,8% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 178,1% Waterplane Area: 26.838 Square feet or 2.493 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 124% Structure weight / hull surface area: 134 lbs/sq ft or 653 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,02 - Longitudinal: 2,16 - Overall: 1,10 Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily 155mm Version: Admiral Hipper 155mm, Germany Cruiser (CL) laid down 1936 (Engine 1937) Displacement: 11.671 t light; 12.167 t standard; 14.488 t normal; 16.345 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (675,85 ft / 633,20 ft) x 65,62 ft x (26,25 / 28,67 ft) (206,00 m / 193,00 m) x 20,00 m x (8,00 / 8,74 m) Armament: 12 - 6,10" / 155 mm 60,0 cal guns - 124,45lbs / 56,45kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1936 Model 4 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread 2 raised mounts Aft Main mounts separated by engine room 12 - 4,13" / 105 mm 63,0 cal guns - 34,39lbs / 15,60kg shells, 200 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model 6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread 4 raised mounts 32 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 83,0 cal guns - 1,77lbs / 0,80kg shells, 1.000 per gun Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model 8 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread 4 raised mounts 16 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm 65,0 cal guns - 0,27lbs / 0,12kg shells, 2.000 per gun Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model 4 x Quad mounts on centreline, evenly spread 4 raised mounts Weight of broadside 1.967 lbs / 892 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 3,15" / 80 mm 400,26 ft / 122,00 m 9,71 ft / 2,96 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 97% of normal length - Hull Bulges: 0,79" / 20 mm 366,83 ft / 111,81 m 9,71 ft / 2,96 m - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 4,13" / 105 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 2nd: 0,59" / 15 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: 1,18" / 30 mm For and Aft decks - Conning towers: Forward 4,13" / 105 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 115.623 shp / 86.255 Kw = 33,00 kts Range 8.000nm at 20,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 4.178 tons Complement: 659 - 858 Cost: £5,925 million / $23,701 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 755 tons, 5,2% Armour: 1.544 tons, 10,7% - Belts: 505 tons, 3,5% - Bulges: 104 tons, 0,7% - Armament: 382 tons, 2,6% - Armour Deck: 501 tons, 3,5% - Conning Tower: 53 tons, 0,4% Machinery: 3.205 tons, 22,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 6.143 tons, 42,4% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.817 tons, 19,4% Miscellaneous weights: 24 tons, 0,2% - On freeboard deck: 16 tons - Above deck: 8 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 19.490 lbs / 8.841 Kg = 171,5 x 6,1 " / 155 mm shells or 2,0 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,17 Metacentric height 3,6 ft / 1,1 m Roll period: 14,6 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,41 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,28 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, an extended bulbous bow and a round stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,465 / 0,480 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,65 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 25,16 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 45,00 degrees Stern overhang: 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 15,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 40,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Average freeboard: 23,36 ft / 7,12 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89,2% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 178,1% Waterplane Area: 26.838 Square feet or 2.493 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 138% Structure weight / hull surface area: 139 lbs/sq ft or 679 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,13 - Longitudinal: 2,29 - Overall: 1,22 Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily Allmählich habe ich den Dreh glaube ich raus. Der Torpedoschutz verwirrt mich ein bisschen, aber damit muss ich halt leben.

Habe mich mal an zwei Hipstern ausgetobt: 203mm Version: Admiral Hipper, Germany Cruiser (CA) laid down 1936 (Engine 1937) Displacement: 11.161 t light; 11.725 t standard; 13.984 t normal; 15.791 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (672,57 ft / 633,20 ft) x 65,62 ft (Bulges 72,18 ft) x (26,25 / 28,71 ft) (205,00 m / 193,00 m) x 20,00 m (Bulges 22,00 m) x (8,00 / 8,75 m) Armament: 9 - 7,99" / 203 mm 60,0 cal guns - 268,96lbs / 122,00kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1936 Model 3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward 1 raised mount - superfiring 12 - 4,13" / 105 mm 63,0 cal guns - 34,39lbs / 15,60kg shells, 200 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model 6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread 4 raised mounts 32 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 83,0 cal guns - 1,77lbs / 0,80kg shells, 1.000 per gun Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model 8 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread 4 raised mounts 16 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm 65,0 cal guns - 0,27lbs / 0,12kg shells, 2.000 per gun Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model 4 x Quad mounts on centreline, evenly spread 4 raised mounts Weight of broadside 2.894 lbs / 1.313 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 3,15" / 80 mm 411,58 ft / 125,45 m 9,71 ft / 2,96 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 100% of normal length Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces - Torpedo Bulkhead: 0,79" / 20 mm 411,58 ft / 125,45 m 19,46 ft / 5,93 m - Hull Bulges: 0,39" / 10 mm 411,58 ft / 125,45 m 9,71 ft / 2,96 m - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 4,13" / 105 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 2nd: 0,59" / 15 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: 1,18" / 30 mm For and Aft decks - Conning towers: Forward 4,13" / 105 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 111.315 shp / 83.041 Kw = 33,00 kts Range 8.000nm at 20,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 4.066 tons Complement: 642 - 835 Cost: £6,411 million / $25,642 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1.129 tons, 8,1% Armour: 1.682 tons, 12,0% - Belts: 514 tons, 3,7% - Torpedo bulkhead: 233 tons, 1,7% - Bulges: 58 tons, 0,4% - Armament: 346 tons, 2,5% - Armour Deck: 479 tons, 3,4% - Conning Tower: 52 tons, 0,4% Machinery: 3.085 tons, 22,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 5.241 tons, 37,5% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.822 tons, 20,2% Miscellaneous weights: 24 tons, 0,2% - On freeboard deck: 16 tons - Above deck: 8 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 16.068 lbs / 7.288 Kg = 62,9 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 2,3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,21 Metacentric height 3,8 ft / 1,2 m Roll period: 15,6 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,38 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,09 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, an extended bulbous bow and a round stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,408 / 0,421 Length to Beam Ratio: 8,77 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 25,16 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 45,00 degrees Stern overhang: 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 15,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 40,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 20,08 ft / 6,12 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 140,2% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150,1% Waterplane Area: 25.698 Square feet or 2.387 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120% Structure weight / hull surface area: 135 lbs/sq ft or 658 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,00 - Longitudinal: 1,59 - Overall: 1,05 Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent 150mm Version: Admiral Hipper 150mm, Germany Cruiser (CL) laid down 1936 (Engine 1937) Displacement: 11.238 t light; 11.725 t standard; 13.984 t normal; 15.791 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (672,57 ft / 633,20 ft) x 65,62 ft (Bulges 72,18 ft) x (26,25 / 28,71 ft) (205,00 m / 193,00 m) x 20,00 m (Bulges 22,00 m) x (8,00 / 8,75 m) Armament: 12 - 6,10" / 155 mm 60,0 cal guns - 124,45lbs / 56,45kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1936 Model 4 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 2 raised mounts 12 - 4,13" / 105 mm 63,0 cal guns - 34,39lbs / 15,60kg shells, 200 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model 6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread 4 raised mounts 32 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 83,0 cal guns - 1,77lbs / 0,80kg shells, 1.000 per gun Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model 8 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread 4 raised mounts 16 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm 65,0 cal guns - 0,27lbs / 0,12kg shells, 2.000 per gun Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model 4 x Quad mounts on centreline, evenly spread 4 raised mounts Weight of broadside 1.967 lbs / 892 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 3,15" / 80 mm 411,58 ft / 125,45 m 9,71 ft / 2,96 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 100% of normal length Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces - Torpedo Bulkhead: 0,79" / 20 mm 411,58 ft / 125,45 m 19,46 ft / 5,93 m - Hull Bulges: 0,39" / 10 mm 411,58 ft / 125,45 m 9,71 ft / 2,96 m - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 4,13" / 105 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 2nd: 0,59" / 15 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: 1,18" / 30 mm For and Aft decks - Conning towers: Forward 4,13" / 105 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 111.315 shp / 83.041 Kw = 33,00 kts Range 8.000nm at 20,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 4.066 tons Complement: 642 - 835 Cost: £5,757 million / $23,029 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 755 tons, 5,4% Armour: 1.690 tons, 12,1% - Belts: 514 tons, 3,7% - Torpedo bulkhead: 233 tons, 1,7% - Bulges: 58 tons, 0,4% - Armament: 353 tons, 2,5% - Armour Deck: 479 tons, 3,4% - Conning Tower: 52 tons, 0,4% Machinery: 3.085 tons, 22,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 5.684 tons, 40,6% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.745 tons, 19,6% Miscellaneous weights: 24 tons, 0,2% - On freeboard deck: 16 tons - Above deck: 8 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 17.637 lbs / 8.000 Kg = 155,2 x 6,1 " / 155 mm shells or 2,6 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,23 Metacentric height 3,9 ft / 1,2 m Roll period: 15,3 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,27 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,13 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, an extended bulbous bow and a round stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,408 / 0,421 Length to Beam Ratio: 8,77 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 25,16 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 45,00 degrees Stern overhang: 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 15,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 40,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 20,08 ft / 6,12 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 128,8% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150,1% Waterplane Area: 25.698 Square feet or 2.387 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 134% Structure weight / hull surface area: 140 lbs/sq ft or 683 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,12 - Longitudinal: 1,78 - Overall: 1,17 Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Na ok. So wie es aussieht, werden wir den Brocken mit 203mm wohl schlucken müssen. Ich werde morgen noch einmal Springsharpen: Einmal eine 203mm & 150mm Variante Ansonsten würde ich @Dullman84 zustimmen: Wir basteln erst einmal nur BCs und wenn die Lage eskaliert, bauen wir die beiden BBs. Ich will mich nur nicht mit den Amis prügeln...

Soo.... Mein erster Springsharp Entwurf für eine Aufgemöbelte Admiral Hipper Klasse: Hipster Class, Germany Admiral Hipper laid down 1936 (Engine 1937) Displacement: 12.367 t light; 13.221 t standard; 15.675 t normal; 17.639 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (688,98 ft / 648,28 ft) x 59,06 ft (Bulges 65,62 ft) x (23,62 / 26,20 ft) (210,00 m / 197,60 m) x 18,00 m (Bulges 20,00 m) x (7,20 / 7,99 m) Armament: 6 - 11,14" / 283 mm 54,5 cal guns - 745,22lbs / 338,03kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1936 Model 3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward 1 raised mount - superfiring Main guns limited to end-on fire 16 - 4,13" / 105 mm 63,0 cal guns - 38,98lbs / 17,68kg shells, 400 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model 8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread 4 raised mounts 32 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 1.000 per gun Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model 8 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread 4 raised mounts 12 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 0,25lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1.000 per gun Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model 3 x Quad mounts on centreline ends, majority forward 3 raised mounts Weight of broadside 5.148 lbs / 2.335 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 3,15" / 80 mm 374,02 ft / 114,00 m 9,22 ft / 2,81 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 89% of normal length Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces - Torpedo Bulkhead: 0,79" / 20 mm 374,02 ft / 114,00 m 22,83 ft / 6,96 m - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 4,13" / 105 mm 2,76" / 70 mm 2,76" / 70 mm 2nd: 0,59" / 15 mm - - 3rd: 0,20" / 5 mm - - - Armoured deck - single deck: 1,18" / 30 mm For and Aft decks - Conning towers: Forward 4,13" / 105 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 124.311 shp / 92.736 Kw = 33,00 kts Range 8.000nm at 20,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 4.418 tons Complement: 699 - 910 Cost: £7,973 million / $31,893 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1.203 tons, 7,7% Armour: 1.637 tons, 10,4% - Belts: 451 tons, 2,9% - Torpedo bulkhead: 249 tons, 1,6% - Armament: 404 tons, 2,6% - Armour Deck: 477 tons, 3,0% - Conning Tower: 56 tons, 0,4% Machinery: 3.445 tons, 22,0% Hull, fittings & equipment: 6.052 tons, 38,6% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.308 tons, 21,1% Miscellaneous weights: 30 tons, 0,2% - On freeboard deck: 20 tons - Above deck: 10 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 15.506 lbs / 7.033 Kg = 22,4 x 11,1 " / 283 mm shells or 2,0 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,16 Metacentric height 3,0 ft / 0,9 m Roll period: 15,9 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1,15 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,44 Hull form characteristics: Hull has low quarterdeck , an extended bulbous bow and a round stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,546 / 0,554 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,88 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 25,46 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 36 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 42,00 degrees Stern overhang: 8,20 ft / 2,50 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 36,09 ft / 11,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 25,56 ft / 7,79 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 161,5% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 190,4% Waterplane Area: 26.618 Square feet or 2.473 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110% Structure weight / hull surface area: 123 lbs/sq ft or 602 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,84 - Longitudinal: 2,13 - Overall: 0,92 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily Datei ist im Anhang. Können mit @Walther_K_Nehring und @DeadMemories beantworten warum Springsharp "Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped" ausgibt? Liegt das Schiff nicht tief genug im Wasser? Und warum bekomme ich die Meldung "Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea"? Wegen dem AoN-Prinzip? Den Hangar will ich übrigens an das Achterdeck anschließen lassen, von den drei Quad 20mm Mounts sind zwei auf den Türmen B und X stationiert und der dritte ist irgendwo da, wo Platz ist. Admiral Hipper.zip

Bismarck XXL wäre für mich H.

P1 fährt in meinem Breyer aber maximal 27,9 Knoten. Da muss man ja schon vor einer NC / Alabama Angst haben... Aber im Prinzip geht der Entwurf in die richtige Richtung,

Wie wäre es dann mit einem BC-Artigen Entwurf mit 6x 38cm für unser 35.000T BB. Sollte die "Eskalationsklausel" zu tragen kommen, gehen wir auf 45.000 T und bauen mit H dann was vernünftiges.

Dann nehmen wir zuerst die 35er und bauen währenddessen entweder ein vernünftiges 40,6 cm Geschütz, das wir hinterher auch auf der H-Klasse installieren können, oder entwickeln ein neues 38cm Geschütz, das dann die erste Hauptbewaffnung für H darstellt. Danach entwickeln wir ein 406mm Geschütz. ODER: Wir nehmen die 38cm in A-B-X Konfig (6x 38cm), bauen die Barbetten aber so, das wir problemlos einen anderen Turm verbauen können.

Oder wir nehem die bestehenden 38cm. Das sollte wesentlich einfacher möglich sein. Also: Bauen mit 35cm, hinterher Upgrade auf 38cm.

Wie wäre es, wenn wir das Schiff mit 35cm designen uns aber eine "Notfallaufrüstung" in Form von 40,6cm vorbehalten? Man müsste dann die Türme so konstruieren, das sie anstatt eines 35cm Geschützes auch ein 40,6cm Geschütz aufnehmen können. Würde das Sinn ergeben? Die Flottenverträge erlauben haben ja eine "Esklationsklausel" (unter der auch die Iowas gebaut worden sind)

Meiner Meinung nach haben wir folgende Optionen: - Wir können die Hippers optimieren, so dass sie a.) weniger verdrängen b.) schneller sind - 33 Knoten sollten hier das Ziel sein c.) effektiver Bewaffnet sind (hier kommen wieder meine 9x 203mm in A-B-X Konfig ins Spiel, versuche mich heute mal an Springsharp) d.) den Bedingungen des Flottenabkommens entsprechen - wenn es nach mir geht, will ich mich gar nicht mit den Engländern und den Amis prügeln (letztere Makron uns einfach aus)

Das ist ja gerade die Herausforderung bei den 35.000 Tonnen: Man muss irgendwo Abstriche machen. Entweder wir kriegen einen gut gepanzerten BC mit kleinem Kaliber oder ein 27 Knoten BB. Übrigens: Die Iowas waren mit 45.000 Tonnen aufgrund der Eskalationsklausel geplant.

Vollkommen richtig, der deutsche Weg, auf einem Schiff Gott und die Welt zu Panzern ist Quatsch und kostet nur Gewicht. Muss jetzt erst einmal Putzen, nachher gibt es mehr

Mal sehen wie viele Wooster wir sehen werden. Sie ist halt wesentlich einfacher zu bedienen als eine Des Moins und man kann im Notfall stumpf auf Schaden gehen, wenn das eigene Team mal wieder Marke Yolo ist.