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This has everything in relevance. Cause it exactly shows in what state the game is with "balanced" CV's. On rankeds - there are no CV and only few CA which are forced to play so safe, that they influence on the game is minimal. BB's are kings of the field, and DD - unspotted - are forcing a very passive game. That is saying something - playing CV is not rewarding right now. They're overnerfed. The're subpar class with 3 - 4 minutes cooldown on it's damaging skill. But let me show you point by point why you are mistaken: First of all, they are a high risk class. They are not risking their ships, they are risking their planes and their damaging capabilities. BB shots roughly every 30 sec, and you can't stop BB shells from reaching their target. CV "shoot" every 3 minutes, and their attacks can be stopped mid strike. Not to mentioning passive defense in form of AA. If there is a low risk classes, it's BB's and to some extent DD's. DD's at least risk their ships if they're spotted. BB's doesn't. If there is no CV, BB can just point its front toward enemy and withstand the heaviest of punishment with ease. DD's are spamming torps from stealth, but they actually risk detection by planes and other DD's - and detected DD is very fast becoming a sunk DD. Due to the nature of the class, the numbers are not on par with other classes. So, by your logic, since we're looking to even the average dmg not having in mind peculiarities of the classes, DD should get a MASSIVE boost to all their stats, since they are clearly underperforming. You're missing the point. CV's are a burst class. They deliver a heavy strike once in +- 3 minutes - and yes, they should focus on BB's and CV's - if you're not familiar with "headshot" term, I recomend playing a CV yourself. Those 0 chance claims are pure BS and perfect example of "BB mafia" whine. Although I agree CV were overperforming - they were to easy to deal damage, and also, since back then there was still this "draw generating" missions - CV forced a overly aggressive approach, which in turn forced BB players to be exposed. Now BB player doesn't have to worry about anything apart from other BB player. You are both wrong and right. The CV are a "game speeder" factor - they force players to use movement, to cover each other, to leave space for evading, and the most important - to push when you can. Without CV, high tier games are a stagnant and boring snipefest. Without CV DD are remain unspotted, launching torps and hoping that maybe some will connect, without CV CA's are a class without 2 jobs - AA cover (which I hate and discourage), and "executor" -BB's are not suffering any massive hits that leaves them on 10 000 HP - they are slowly dropping HP only to pop regen and comeback unscathed. Why Yamato is performing so well when Montana is not? One of the points is that Yamato can point forward and be immune to citadels, sail 1/4 speed forward, and deal death left and right with 2/3 firepower available. Monatana players are still trying to employ back turrets - which results in showing their broadsides to Yamatos and losing HP. You would know that if you would play higher tier games and rankeds. It's clearly visible there. German league also shows which classes are desired - Kongo, Gremiaszczy and sometimes Murmańsk. CV is mostly Bogue used for spotting and preventing DD from being spotted. You are aware that I mostly play subpar US CA's right now? With some german flavour and a side of IJN CA's?

Did you play rankeds recently? Or high tier games? Or german league?

lulz. How about no. The whole "countering" system never worked. And never will, unless they will heavily modify the gameplay of all classes. So let's already skip this part. CV's are overnerfed. They are needed in this game, and the fact they are missing, is worrying and disbalancing whole game. They should never get back to the level they were at the start of OBT. But, they should indeed receive some serious buffing. But, the BB player outrage might actually prevent it fom happening.

I agree with that. I'm just showing you how it was before all nerfs. Then they nerfed CV patch after patch, nerfing wrong aspect of the class, and now CV disapeared and game is in worse state then it was in CBT. I said it before - I'm indeed supporting buffing CV, but I would be dissapointed if they would again land on the spot they were before the nerfs.

My clansmate actually have 130k average on Ruyjo, and I'm sorry, but I think it's a perfect example of ocerperforming. CV from tier VI should do around 10% more average then BB, so if good player will make around 60 - 70 in Fuso/NM, Ryujo should be around 70 - 80 for good players. That's what I would like to see. Also, no more torping DD's.

@Barkyro No. CV's are what you can call "burst" class. They go, they nuke, they reload and then they repeat. They are limited due to this ability alone. They are limited cause they can sink any ship in one go. Argument, that "hell, they are only two per team, so let them make double BB damage" is wrong. Making them perform better then any1 else is wrong on principal - it's biased point of view. I should say, that CA are the most universal ships of all, and so they should be able to sink BB and DD with ease? CV should regain the ability they had before few nerfs - delivering heavy payload, where they want, when they want, and with a bit of skill. They should usually have more average dmg then BB by small percent (10%), but the same win rate is essential. How can we balance game around Midways and Hakus doing 250 000 dmg, with 150 000 average? When DD's from tier X have 50, CA are still around 80 and BB around 100 - 110 (for best players). CV per se have a lot of stuff implemented in them - attacking doesn't risk ship, positioning is less important then other classes, you do a lot of damage from three sources bomb+torps/fire/flooding, you destroy DD gameplay and minimise their dmg almost passively, by your sheer presence. Calling them a burden is just funny.

That, my good sir, is pure bs. It shouldn't outperform every ship. It's like saying that junglers in MOBA should outperform every other lane, that Frost Mage in WoWs should outperform every other class etc. This is a game, not a simulation. In a game, you strive for balance between each class, not choosing one, which should be king of the game, and three other peasants as a cannon fodder. I'm for buffing CV's, but totally against making them overperforming.

You see, the problem is, that right now, the balance is so much off, that it will be hard to bring at least some of the things back to normal. Lack of CV means BB's are more or less invulnerable - they don't have to manouver that much, which in consequence leads to turtling tactics and trading shots. CA's are scared to go in front of the BB's cause they are so hard countered it's incredibly risky, coupled with problems with spotting DD without CV's, and added small dmg potential with only few shots fired due to running back - all this makes for a stagnant game. I actually division now with a friend who plays Essex. It's much more fun - he can heavily wound BB I need to be taken down - he torps them and I try to finish them. Sometimes it work, and sometimes it doesn't - but all in all, it makes a much more enjoyable game, for us and for enemy - there are no BB moving backwards showing only front. One tried and eated 9 torps from CV - and that is needed for BB's. A high risk of getting oneshotted themselves. This would instantly improve gameplay for everyone - evading BB might show broadside to your Montana - profit. But BB players tend to be blind to that, and just asking for #nerf CA/DD/CV/BBidon'tplayrightnow

Countering is one thing. But not having a counter as a BB + countering to the point its almost impossible to sink full HP BB by a CA during the whole game is one thing. Zao is actually the only good CA, but it's still a cheesy build, and ridiculous fire chance and HE dmg of IJN stuff. Now, ask yourself what would you take in teamgames? Like the recent german league, or even now - rankeds? Why are there so few CA's? Why on tier VIII its like 2 CV's, 5 - 6 BB's 1 (only one) CA and the rest are DD's? Why there are so few CA's playing rankeds on tier VIII? So, if those CA's are so good, why no more balanced teams? Why not 2 CV 4 BB 4 CA and 2 DD? Because CA doesn't stand a chance. They are being slaughtered instantly the moment they are spotted with 5 - 6 BB concentrating fire on them. Also, why do you stick to the whole countering and rock - paper - scissors scheme where it is obvious it was: a) abandoned long ago b) not working when it was being tried c) impossible to implement due to class characteristics for future BB's are the most forgiving class of all. Yamato having 2 turrets front, with no real CV presence, is impossible to be taken down by a CA (I play Des Moines, one of the supposedly godlike DPS vessels). How do you want to take down a ship, that is impossible to citadel when showing his front to other BB's, with carefull usage of repair ability fires are a nuisance, not a real danger. Now, if damage from fires was a critical damage, and couldn't be fully repaired with HP regen...

Considering Kutuzow with it's technology is, well, WW II level of technology, I think it doesn't matter. Stats reflect that kinda nice. Will see how it fares.

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I'm waiting for her too. A true beauty indeed. As for balancing - it's WG, they will balance it one way or another.

But how it's different from randoms? It's not and it can't be. It's not LoL, DotA or even World of Warcraft (which actually has a very skill dependent pvp system). How it can be skill dependent, when you can't communicate with your team apart from chat? How can it be ranked, while there is no clear way of defining what is wanted from teams (apart from playing as a team without proper tools to do so)? How can it indicate anything, when from 4 classes that are in game 2 consist 90% of the team? Imagine LoL rankeds with 3 junglers and 2 midlaners - idiocy. Solo rankeds are a fail concept for games such as WoWs per se. It can't be made right, no matter how hard you'll try. Ranked teams though - that is exactly what would indicate a skilled players. Imagine rank 1 players that played as a team - full communication, tactics, accurate aiming and stuff - that would indicate that 7 players from that team know what they are doing. To tell you the truth - I don't really care. If it indeed were indication of skill - I would take full gimped NC or Benson and try my best. But now? Like I said - peps are treating it as a random with rewards and focused on objectives. Which is ok. I started rankeds as it was excuse to get back Cleveland and New Orleans - also, since I mostly played Des Moines and tier V - VI CA's, I played them to check in what state is balance of the game at tier VII and VIII. Now I just want this rank 1 for money and flag. Am I a bad teamplayer? Do I rage on Atlanta on rankeds? No. As long as MM put a tier VII on enemy team as well - I don't care what somebody play. It will be mostly his frustration, not mine. I do my best on randoms in certain ships (Des Moines, Omaha, Kuma, Nicholas) as I like playing them. Well, it just depends on perspective. I don't mind playing stock ship, as long as you are still viable opponent. Stock Amagi is not, stock Colorado is not, but stock NC? Or stock Mogami? They are good enough on stock to be viable ships. I admit, I'm still missing my hull upgrade on NC (have it researched, but due to grinding soviet DD's not enough credits), but I have it moduled, flagged, premium consumamble. My view of teamplay is more about moving around map, support then entering a game with certain ship. I saw enough Bensons got killed by Hatuharus to know it's not THAT crucial. But it's just me though. What I want to say, is that we look at rankeds a bit too serious. Game devs already admitted that rankeds are not indicating one's skill, so why are we so pissed off about some dudes playing bad. I loved my few initial games on rank X - tried some tactic movement, there was still a nice ship diversity down. But on rank 5 or 4? Boooooring.

The second good thing about rankeds is that I really appreciated the faster paced games on randoms. I just want to get this rank 1 fast enough, so I can get my 10 000 000 credits for Benson

Wolne PD mam z milion, ale raczej zostawie to na Yorcka jak mnie najdzie wena by zrobic sobie hippera itd. Właśnie rozkminiałem, czy aż trzy jedynki brać na tych sovietach

Zagrałem sobie ze dwa razy Gnievnym i wydaje mi się, że odkryłem swoje nowe powołanie w tych ruskich DDkach. Więc zadam parę pytań do tych co już mają Ognievoja za sobą: 1. Jak jest z obrotem wież? 2. Jak jest z trajektorią pocisków? 3. Jak jest z amunicją AP? Można cytadelować Aobą np? 4. Jak jest ze zwrotnością? 5. Jakie perki brać na te łobuzy? Co z pierwszego tieru przede wszystkim?

Well, I have different experience. I played mostly CA, and recently switched to BB, as I got bored with New Orleans. For those 2 classes, battles are mostly the same. What you say about different gameplay on ranked for different classes is true. But in general, wider perspective, operating as a team - it's reduced to blob. 99% of the time. Any different behaviour is met with scepticism, if not outright insults. That's the only true positive thing about rankeds. I've met a lot of dudes from forums playing with me or against me. It's fun and motivating, but it doesn't change the downsides of rankeds - utter boredom.

Komp naprawiony, więc o ile nic mi nie wyniknie w pracy (grudzień ciężkim okresem w mojej branży), to myślę, że w weekend będę streamował. Albo ruskie DD albo rankedy, albo jakiś mix wszystkiego

Will it be a heresy if I would say that I don't trust iChase vids that much? However, with Des I have full camo build and my detection range is roughly 10,6 km. With shooting it goes to 16,3 to stay undetected. Which would leave 203 mm guns adding 5,7 km to spotting range. So it might be true, but still, numbers are a bit off (just a bit, but still). That's why I asked for print screens. Math is math, but some values might be hidden and thus misleading. 1 km stealth shooting is not much, but it might be usefull actualy, with accurate guns of Atago.

First of all, I think we need to decide if ranked battles can be a reflection of one's skill. IMHO, the way WoWs is build - they can't be. Class balance is way of mark, limited maps, limited scenarios, cross tiers, stock ships, untrained captains etc. I don't look at rankeds as a skill evaluation, I look at them as way to grind my North Carolina and play a little bit different game - focused on objectives rather then sinking. My biggest problem with rankeds is that they are so slow, stagnant, and just plain boring. Most part of the game nothing is happening. Many games are ending in just 1 sinking, and almost always it's just 1 DD which has been sunk. Tactics are set in stone: blob. There is no other approach, no flanking, no ambush, no rush - nothing. Just blob, keep distance, and wait till one team lose a ship or two, and then press for the second cap. That is all. I don't know if in this game it's even possible to implement such ranked mode, that it will be more or less accurate standing for players skill. Hell, even in LoL ranked games are somewhat funny. The first league that actually shows you're a good player is diamond (bronze, silver, gold, platinium, diamond, challenger). Rest of the leagues just say how much you play this game. As for the teammates. Well, I just assume that on the other side of the map is the equal number of poor, average and good players as on my side of the match. Nothing to do with it. I just try to ask if they can do this or that, if I need it for some reason, and most of the time some of my teammates respond. I had a nice game two days ago, when I spotted a enemy fubuki flanking my NC, and asked Benson who was near me to intercept him. He agreed, proceeded to sink the Fubuki ensuring my safety, and, all in all, a victory. So yes, your skill has a meaning in this mode, but it is no more relevant than it is on randoms. So if you have 55% to 60% win rate on randoms, you will need this 100+ battles to get this rank 1, unless you're lucky. I think, the real question is: would anybody play rankeds if there was a team mode enabled, not only 3 man divisions? Or even better, ranked teams. That would indeed be a proper evaluation of your skill.

k. Dunno. As far as I know, Des Moines has 6 km penalty for shooting. As far as I know, there is no difference between IJN and US CA penalty for shooting range. If you have credible information that IJN penalty range is lower - will gladly see it. I'll test it in training room indeed. Des Moines didn't changed a bit. 16.3 km is the range of stealth shooting pre german/ru patch, and now.

k.

Well, I've put it to test, and it's very exact regarding Des Moines for example, Mogami with 155 with AFT might actually be within stealth shooting range, but I'm pretty confident Atago and 203 mm Mogami are excluded, same with Myoko.

I'm not bitching or smth, I'm just curious. I know, that some ships have different shooting penalty value set in game, so it's possible. But unless you have full camo build and Situational Awarness and can provide me with a print screen I actually think that Atago, and Mogami with 203 mm can't stealth shoot. First is Ibuki with it's range extending module.