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Dzięki za granie wczorajsze Niestety kolega insekt grał na odliczanie ale wylądował po przeciwnej stronie. Ale, i tak, perełkę wieczoru dostarczył imć Vulgar: http://www.twitch.tv/dropsiq/v/38132451 Dzisiaj też pewnie będziemy streamować, może zajrzymy na spotkanie społeczności, a oprócz tego będziemy kontynuować naszą wyboistą drogę do 60% win ratio

Yeah. Nerf it more. That sounds about right. However, how about, we ner Zao, but we will bring old CV's back huh? All IJN strike decks, small spread, small circle, faster plane reload. How about that? Is that a fair trade?

On the tiers you're playing? Yeah, they're more or less balanced. They are a bit on the winning side, but they still can be taken down pretty easy. Come back here when you hit tier VIII and X, and then we'll talk again.

Btw, check it out. It's just one of the many battles that show how this bad boy is performing... The MM was easy, but this ship perform as well on higher tiers too. Vid is in Polish, so be sure to mute us BTW. we laugh so hard cause our friend was detonated by 1 torpedo from Langley. The irony is, he's the CV player http://www.twitch.tv/dropsiq/v/38132451

to jest bardziej złożone: Albany>New Orleans>Ognievoi (bo to taki krążownik, tylko że niszczyciel)> Yorck>Zao

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Nobody Expects Yamato in the Toilet!

C'mon, średnia serwerowa dla Desa to jest 56k, a ja mam średnią ogólną 91k. Bitwy po 140k to mam co trzecią. Serio, nawet na streamie mam jakąś bitewkę ze 170k i jakoś specjalnie mnie to nie ruszyło. Gość jest dobry, tego nie neguje, ale żeby się jarać 145k na X krążku? I to jeszcze butując VIII tiery? Meh. Obejrzałem sobie jeszcze raz. Gość zatopił Desa który się nawet nie kątował, a w momencie kiedy mógł go zajechać, to on popłynał za wyspę. Do tego zbutował New Orleans i Atago i pyknał ze 2 razy w Amagi. A w momencie w którym do niego strzeliły BBki to odparował. I dodge torped też słaby. Spokojnie mógł uniknąć wszystkich. Serio, ta bitwa jest naprawdę meh. A w drugiej bitwie paziuje Mogami, Mogami. New Orleans i Atago. Plus nie zgadzam się z połową tego co on tam mówi.

A ja akurat tego gościa nie polecam. Filmiki które wrzuca wcale nie urywają tyłka, a jego komentarz odnośnie Desa, w której to grze strzela do głównie do Atago i innych VIII tierów i na tej podstawie wnioskuje że Des jest OP. Gość coś potrafi, to bez dwóch zdań, ale szczerze, to już bardziej sensownie Stary Gracz opisuje Desa, i to jeszcze z CBT. Filmik powyżej widziałem bez głosu, natomiast. 145k to nie jest jakiś wyczyn. Sam masz jaką średnią na Zao? 110?

To nie jest tak, że ten krążownik jest lepszy, a ten gorszy. KaraMon dobrze to opisał. Teoretycznie, ale tylko teoretycznie, najlepszym i najłatwiejszym w obsłudze jest Zao. Nie zgadzam się co do torped tylko, bo choć faktycznie, w przypadku ofensywnej akcji mają fatalne kąty strzału, ale jeżeli uciekamy, na zazwyczaj na krążownikach uciekamy, to można te torpedy użyć w miarę sprawnie (tutaj pytanie, kąty do tyłu są takie jak na Atago/Myoko?). Zao jest bardzo celny, pestki lecą szybko, płasko. HE zadają bardzo duże obrażenia i mają 17% szansy na podpalenia, plus masz 12 lufek. Do tego dochodzi świetny kamuflaż, znośny pancerz (ale nie łudźmy się, nie uratuje nas on przed niczym sensownym, po prostu nie dostaniemy cytadeli od innego krążownika stojąc do niego pod superostrym kątem). Zao najlepiej się sprawdza na zasięgach 13/14 km+. Z niewidki strzelasz z 15,5km (popraw mnie Kara jak się mylę ). Więc nie ma tu ogromnej filozofii, trzymamy dystans, unikamy dostawania gongów i spamujemy HE waląc salwy po 8k. Hindnburg jest specyficzny. Wielki, bardzo słabe camo, kosmetyczne torpy, fatalne HE. Ale, bardzo dobry RoF, boskie AP, dobra celność, zasięg i skupienie. Hindenburg dobrze się sprawdza na dalekich dystansach. Dzięki dużemu zasięgowi nie musisz zbytnio wychylać się z linii BBków. Ale to niemiecki krążek, więc żeby nim grać dobrze musisz ogarniać mechanikę gry na poziomie zaawansowanym. Dla początkującego uważam za najtrudniejszy, natomiast ogólnie uważam za drugi w kolejności. Des Moines jest bardzo zależny od zmian mety + kręcenie dobrych wyników jest baaardzo uzależnione od skilla gracza. Początkujący gość w obecnej mecie będzie kręcił koło 60k na bitwę, a to i tak jest progres, bo BBki poznikały. Des Moines ma fatalną balistykę pocisków i średnie obrażenia z AP i z HE. Natomiast ma niezłą penetrację. Pancerników nie przebijesz tak jak Hindi, ale jak spotkasz krążownik poniżej 12 km - wygraną masz praktycznie w kieszeni. Problem polega na tym, że Des musi podejść blisko do celu, a podejście blisko oznacza wejście w strefę zgonu od BBków. Des ponoć ma być twardy, ale nie jest. Cytadela jest bardzo duża, wrażliwa i na X tierze przebicie pozbawia Cię połowy HP. Do tego masz duży fear factor, bo przeciez 10 strzałów na minutę, więc jesteś instafocusowany przez wszystko na mapie. Ale. Jeżeli już nauczysz sie nim grać, to spokojnie dasz sobie radę z każdym inym krążownikiem. Ten RoF zapewnia Ci wygraną w 100%, pod warunkiem że starcie jest dyktowane przez Ciebie. Nie ma gonienia Zao który spitala od Ciebie na 15 km. Przestajesz strzelać i znikasz. Tyle. Pograj sobie, obejrzyj tutoriale i wtedy decyduj, suchy tekst nie da Ci odpowiedzi :d

Nie, nie rozumiesz. Des Moines jest najlepszym niszczycielem krążowników jaki jest w tej grze. Build na camo i podchodzisz do typa na 11 km i go miażdzysz w 3 salwach, a pozniej dobijasz z HE. Nawet Zao. Zao natomiast jest o tyle lepszy, że lepiej sobie radzi i z topieniem niszczycieli i z topieniem pancerników, natomiast gorzej ma w walce z krążownikami, aczkolwiek i tu nie jest bezbronny, bo im większy dystans starcia, tym większą przewagę ma Zao. Comprende?

Zao>Des Moines. Aczkolwiek Zao jest słabszy jeśli chodzi o mordowanie krążowników, co Des robi z łatwością.

Jutro o 18 stream tej. Do tego będzie lekki upgrade wizualny. Więc pełne szaleństwo.

DM is highly influenced by meta changes. The more CA the better for DM. The more BB the more DM will fall short. Nerf for Zao is not changing much, since Zao is not a dedicated brawler. But the fact that it was nerfed is worrying. It might mean, that WG is trying to do some changes, but they don't know what is happening to their game. If they wanted to nerf Zao, they should add 1 second to it's reload, nerf camo, nerf ballistics. But instead, they nerfed HP. Like, for realz? It's like nerfing Yamato by decreasing his AA when CV's are missing. It's a nerf, but completely off point.

That's exactly my point! Why Zao was nerfed? Cause it was overperforming? Cause it did more dmg then other cruisers? What's the logic here? But, Zao was the only one that had damage almost on par with BB's (72 on Zao, while Monty had 76 and Yammy 91), so they nerfed it to tone it down. Tone it down to who? Des Moines which is one of the worst tier X's in game? It's only good in very specific MM, that's CA heavy, and you need to be already a very good CA skipper to do well in it. And while I'm decent CA captain, and propably one of the best in DM (thank you, I think I'm not the best, but I think I have the best experience in it. BTW check server/global dmg record screen in attachements), I love all classes. I love how Iowa pounds those CA's when they show broadside, I love to put 6/6 torps in Tirpitz while driving Lexi, and I love setting ambush in Benson. But. All the pieces are now in a disarray. CV are missing, and crying for nerfs for DD's are not going to remedy the situation. And, I was triggered by one of the comments, by a fellow forumite, claiming that CA players were asking for Zao nerf.

I might be a bit salty. Few days ago, I played against some Yamato dude. When I encountered him, he already sunk 2 CA from my team. I though, hell, this guy is good, have to be carefull. So I dodged his two salvoes just by turning right. Then I thought, I'll turn left now, since he adjusted his aim and so I'll trick him. But he didn't adjust his aim, and I was just blown up from 100% to 0% HP. I then proceed to check the stats of this dude. 45% win rate, average around 35k 2000 battles, and then, BLAM, 50% win rate, 100k on Yamato. So, suddenly he got that better right? In Zao he is doing 40k average, but on Yamato 100k? I dare you to say that oneshotting BB's from CV is overpowered. I double dare you.

Didn't occur to you, that maybe, just maybe, Kiev and/or Zao is not overperforming? That Hatsuharu and god damn Mahan are underperforming? And for Zao - didn't you read what I wrote? I said that this nerf is pointless and wrongly aimed. Zao didn't need a nerf, and now, it's even more punished by DM and Hindenburg when driven by equally skilled captains. Zao can't win against me in Des, even if he has full HP and I'm on half. But, since Zao was already mostly setting BB's on fire, cries for nerf were heard.

Oh, I played each iteration of the game, apart from Alpha tests, as I somehow missed them. I wrote quite a few comments about 5.1 in Polish section of forums. My comments mainly boiled down to: it shouldn't be that way. I disliked how a "bug" was exploited. However, I also noticed few other things - did you see how games were much more dynamic and brutal in 5.1? Cause CA players were hyperagressive and just went in for kills. They could dodge most of torps from unspotted DD's, and didn't have to panic when they saw a BB. Now, don't get me wrong, going full broadside in a CA vs BB just feels wrong, and it was bad overall. But lessening the punishment CA gets from BB's would also be healthy for a game as a whole. But it's not a main problem, as in my opinion, it wouldn't change the dynamic of the game, which is the main issue here. BTW, you did citadel BB's in 5.1, the same as pre 5.1 It was the CA armour calculation that resulted in overpens. I did my biggest salvo in 5.1 (52k in North Carolina vs Iowa). I don't want to nerf BB's. Let them be as they are now. Bringing back CV will help CA immensely - when BB have to move, he can't 100% focus on sinking you, can make a mistake, show you or another BB braodside, eat 5 torps - all this scenarios are helping CA's doing their role - being the support class, that can inflict their DoTa and DPS when it is needed to make sure that stuff is going to be dead. They do, but question is why? The answer is, cause their real counter, CV's are missing. They were overnerfed and just made to be un-fun when playing. And why did CV were nerfed each patch? Cause BB players couldn't (did not want to) adopt to their presence in game. Which meant mobility, carefull manouvers, planning to move with your team. So, CV were nerfed and disappeared. Then came the "glorious BB era", when DD's still didn't realise that they can go unpunished 99% of the time. So, Yamatos were parking, showing only their front, and just trading shots against other parked BB's, occasionally imploding some CA that tried to scout or make himself usefull. Then came the DD era, and BB players are whining again, and with good reason, cause DD role skyrocketed to the most important piece in game - you lose DD's you lose game. But most of this can be repaired by CV comeback. But to do a CV comeback, BB players need to "familiarize" themselves, with a idea, that the same crapthey been doing to CA's and DD's can happen to them - instant death when making a mistake. But, since the Midway/Essex are OP topic still resurface from time to time, I highly doubt it. BB are stronk after all. However, meta shifts again, and CA's are making a comeback, but it is not due to positive changes to classes. They make comeback, cause playing BB's is getting boring and frustrating. Not only you play a static piece, you can't shoot big juicy CA's, cause they hide from you until DD's slowly take you out. Is this the gameplay we want? CA's averages are going up, and I enjoy playing Des Moines against other CA's. But I dislike rest of the gameplay. I like to see some action, I like to see movements, dramatic changes and snatching wins from jaws of defeat. Now, it's all boiled down to DD's and it's boring so much, that I actually enjoy playing my 18 points US captain on Albany more. CV need a rework, that's my opinion. Basics should stay - they should be the kings of the damage, but they should rely more on skill and decision making. Wrong decisions should be punished. They role also should be expanded, not only fighter/dive bombers/torpedo bombers. But I play CV rarely, so I'll just stop commenting while I can

No, r-p-s logic is dead and gone. It died with implementation of CV waaaay back at Alpha and Beta tests. I don't want boring r-p-s concept, when I already had a better one. Bring back CV's, that's what I try to say, and balance CV vs DD, not CA vs DD. Balance the way airplanes spot DD and torps. You can upgrade hydroacustics as a "flavour" ability, not main ability. You need to balance each class against each other. CA's should be at a disadvantage when fighting BB's, but they shouldn't be hardcountered. Did you ever checked how average damage of a CA and BB against each other scales? BB from V tier deal 145% of tier V CA HP, while return fire takes 65% of said BB HP. And theeeen, at tier X, BB deal 186% of CA HP, while return fire takes 61% of it's HP. So, the gap between the classes existing at tier V grows bigger at tier X (% varies on CA and BB you compare, but it should stay around 60% - 180%). 1k overpen shots happen to my Iowa every second shot, with citadels happening every third shot. So, I deal 3k damage, 8 - 10k damage and 20k damage within 1,18 minute. My average damage on Iowa is low only because of my poor skills in aiming, since I'm used to much slower shells. However, I expect to hit more then 100k average when my Iowa will be elited. All in all, it's BB fault that CV's are gone, BB's fault that high tier games are now dominated by DD's, BB's fault that games are stagnant and boring - nobody want's to take the hit. No, you should not take unnecessary risk. But if it means that your CA could flank opponent BB's - yes, you should expose yourself enough to tempt the shot. Then opponent team will have to divide attention between you and BB's - and at that point they're half way down the loosing path.

Z pewnością, ale jak zaczniesz się Punto ścigać z Porshe, to raczej nie wygrasz takiej rywalizacji. Styl jest taki sam, ale możliwości są inne. Dla mnie np. Myoko to czysta przyjemność, a Furutaką się męczyłem jak cholera.

I dlatego WSZYSTKIE staty masz lepsze na Omaha nie?

O rly? Zao was nerfed not because DM players were crying about it. Any average DM player will just rotflstomp Zao. Zao was nerfed, cause full-retard mode battleship drivers were crying about stealth shooting. So one and only cruiser that was performing almost "on par" as batteships was too much for BB players. Same with Kiev. It's not a Hatsuharu players that were crying about it, it was BB players, that can't hit a target with their BIG gunz, blasphemy! #nerf. And it was nerfed. Battleship player advising about CA is just laughable. Bro, try to play escort New Orleans, when 1 in 10 battles CV is present. Try to play "DD hunter" role, when you don't have ANY tool to spot that DD. But, I'm waiting for DD nerf since BB players already can't stand high tier games. From tier VIII, gameplay is a bad comedy. No CV, CA's are trying to scuttle like rats left and right, once it's spotted, he get's shot from 4 BB's at once, loses 2/3 of it's HP and hides for the rest of the battle. BB can't push because DD's remain unspotted, cause, you know there are no CV's? Why there are no CV's? Oh, that's right, BB players couldn't handle turning from time to time. So, each patch was nerfing CV's even more. So, try to perform an escort role while you don't have the enemy, or tools to fight the enemy. Tier VI and VII are pretty decent. Myoko and Pensacola are ok. Pensacola has a bad rep, but it is a good cruiser, although one that demands more skill. Yorck is underwhelming, to say the least. Tier VIII are beginning to fall off, Mogami is an exception due to 155mm cheese, and Atago is more of a small BB then a CA (is it surprising anybody, that when a CA is more similar to BB it suddenly perform much better?). Hipper is doing okay-ish, and NO is just plain awful. Tier IX sees Roon doing well, but imho it's the result of BB players dwindling numbers due to DD at high tiers. More CA's means Roon with it's awesome AP ammo can deal decent damage to BB while terrorising it's CA opponents. Zao is still doing well, since they nerfed him blindly - less HP means it has a harded time fighting other CA's, which wasn't the issue at all. DM is doing better since he usually encounter tier IX and VIII CA's which he murders. Hinden is somewhat in the middle, but decrease in BB numbers is also helping him. But, to sum it up. How many CA players were crying about CV's? How many players were crying about DD's? You want CA to perform their "escort" role, which is a myth in this game. It's some magical keyword to cover lack of balance at higher tier. Hey, BB's are supposed to demolish CA's since they are their counter, according to rock-paper-scissors logic. Except, this logic is long dead, and nobody gives a damn and still copy paste the same argument. If you wan't CA players to perform their "escort" role - make it worthwhile for them in gamedesign. Give them tools to spot DD's, give them more rewarding game solutions then point and click on airplanes. Bring back CV and make them a threat for BB's, so that they have to use their brains and manouver, not sitting like a friggin Siege Tank just pounding stuff for 20 minutes. Force DD's to take risks, not to stealth spam torps every 1,5 minute. Now, I met quite a lot of good BB players, they know how to let me do my job in CA - finishing wounded targets, kill other CA's, provide a detterence for CV etc. So take my rant with a bit of salt. On the other hand, good BB player will not tell me to provide escort for him, as he knows it's a waste of CA potential. He will try to place himself as the best target, so I can dps my opponent without complications. [EDIT] BTW, there are 5 topics on main page about how DD's are overpowered

Zwiększa się ilość lufek, zwiększa się camo, zwiększa się zasięg. Zresztą, serio? Mogami vs New Orleans? Myoko vs Yorck?

First you should target is the ones dealing the most damage. CA's are pretty much equall in how easy a BB can take them out. Atago and Mogami are the biggest threat - very high HE damage, good fire chance, torpedoes, while having long sihouette and, as such, quite long citadel. I would target them first. Then comes Kutuzov. 152 mm guns on Kutuzov are not dealing as much damage as Mogamis, and torps are not so deadly, add to that smoke ability and you have to be carefull, but it's not immediate threat. Then comes Hipper - If he is close, he can deal a lot of damage from AP, if not? You can pretty much ignore him. Then comes New Orleans. He inflict medium to lowish HE damage, medium fire chance, and decent AP ammo - but nothing spectacular. So, in my opinion: Mogami>Atago>Kutuzov>Hipper>Orleans