C4PT41N_0BV10US

Lose some of her "comfort"? I mean, I sure hope they play their own game, cause I was playing 155mm Mogami without AFT for a while, and it was very far away from comfort.

Like I said, it's not Atago. We did the same stuff yesterday, beating 5200 rating teams, with one Atago and 3 ARP Myokos and Hipper/Kutuzov mixture and some Shokaku flavour. It's 6 CA + 1 CV tactic. And, it's a one trick pony. You will get stomped by it once or twice, but when you figure how to counter this lineup - the limited flexibility is a huge flaw.

It's not Atagos. It's onetrick-pony tactic that relies on very high damage output on certain IJN CA's vs 2 BB teams. You can do the same, although a bit more difficult, with Myokos. There are at least 2 good counter tactics for it. And that team unfortunately lost few games We got their social monies!

Well, I didn't use AFT on GE CA's as their native range is more then enough for me. Last Stand is good option if the captain was staying on tier V and VI GE CA's. Right now, on Hipper I have my escort captain with full AA build for team battles, but Roon, made for solo games, is sporting nice and neat 3600 HP buff, since BB's are in smaller numbers on tier IX, and you mostly fight CA's when you benefit from the 3600 hp more. But on low tiers there are still a lot of BB's, so I would go with DE on Konig and Nurnberg.

Nah, radar, especially on US CA will be very dangerous tool for. First of all, it's range is pretty close to detection range of CA's in question. Maybe not NO, but Baltimore and Des Moines can get their detection range to 11 km and below (I'm sorry, but don't remember the numbers for NO). Which leaves very little space and time for enemy DD captain to avoid detection and punishment. Your Situational Awareness poped out? Wait 4 - 5 sec and engage radar. This will seriously hit the DD class. In Des I can reliably hit DD on 11 km mark, on 10 km I become deadly. So, actually, it will help a lot, but it won't solve the biggest problem - lack of CV and lack of reliable BB counter. DD just stops game dead in it's tracks, BB are breaking the whole system. Bringing back CV will resolve one problem, but bring back another - DD vs CV issue.

No, you don't have to silent. I always enjoy a good read, sometimes it's smart and funny, and sometimes is just so ridiculously dumb, that you just wished you had a telephone to Punisher to call him to purge the autor with holy exterminatus. But, you can write your thoughts on the subject elsewhere - create a suitable topic, and please, by all means, vocalise your concerns about truth there with all your might. But this topic is actually one of the few with new content I long to see, and this discussion, all merits of it aside, is just an offtopic, and one doomed to be escalating quickly, from both sides.

Then I would like to ask you, and every other forumite, to keep our discussion from this topic, since I'm sure s@#t will hit the fan, as it always does with politics, and would be a terrible loss if this thread would be locked.

I hoped you were sarcastic. Now I have doubts about that.

I sure hope they brew whole UK CA line, cause soviet CA's left me a bit sore on the topic of new ships.

whats worth playing these days at all? we can do this all day

Well, if you look more closely, everything is just there to screen landing operations.

What the hell man? You know what's the best deterrence? Seeing 45 torpedoes moving towards your position. Seeing smoke and trail of gunfire leading from somewhere (cause DD is invisible) and landing on your ship. Seeing that you're spotted, but you can't spot shiet. Seeing Atago is no deterrence, it's an invitation. DD's are much better escort then CA's right now. Spotting while remaining unspotted, smoke as a panic button save, torpedoes as area denial, some even have Defensive Fire for that extra AA touch. Also quick firing guns for starting those fires. Also they got no citadels, so they are actually harder to sink from BB's then CA's. There is no reason to play CA screen, so maybe that's why no one bother to use it effectively, well at least no good CA player prioritise it. Right now, if I see 5 DD each side, and no CV, I instantly just stop caring and do whatever I want. Sometimes I ask a DD for spot, but if he ignores my request, I just do whatever. Yolo, sightseeing, making a flanking manouver that will take me 14 minutes to reach battlefield etc. Sometimes I engage my tryhard mode, but it's usually just 0 fun for me, so I stop rather quickly. I've actually had a quick look at your stats to check if you know what are you talking about. And you didn't even hit the sweet spot on tier VIII. Up to tier VI CA's escort A LOT. Cause they are actually usefull at that tier and can be somewhat dangerous since the BB powerspike is just starting, and DD have to take risks to launch those torps. So, hit tier VIII and then let us know what you think Even better, grind tier VIII CA, preferable US or GE one and share with us how those escorting and screening stuff went for you.

They were good, but not that good. After Jutland german high command was terrified how close it came to total disaster and anihiliation. Also, GF suffered quite a lot of various loses here and there, and, actually in early 1915 germany had only 1 or 2 less active dreadnaughts then GF, and even had small advantage in battlecruisers. German shipbuilding was splendid, no doubt about that. But superior? I don't think so. It was a bit more pragmatic though - a typical german trait - they didn't have to cruise all around the globe to protect vast colonial interests. No need for large spaces for crew accomodation, supplies, fuel etc - all this space can be used for armour and watertight compartments. So superior? Nah. Different agenda? Sure. Nevertheless, Kaiser Marine is one of the best looking fleet I also feel that we should clarify here. Whole fleet in being concept was kinda forced by Kaiser himself. He misunderstood one thing - Hochseeflotte should never choose this tactic. Grand Fleet could choose it, and it was perfect for them. They had the advantage, or looked like they had it, and sit and wait tactic was just what they could dream of. Tirpitz (not sure if it wasn't Sheer, but I think it was Tirpitz) mentioned it in his letters, stating quite a few times, that Fleet - in - being is a disaster for german fleet. Waiting was a losing option for germany, both on land and naval theaters of war - and it was indeed their undoing.

Nah, I'm cool man. I've just eated my teeth on CA gameplay since beginning of CBT, so I know what I'm talking about, which sometimes can get me sarcastic. Long torps are not a problem, problem is lack of tools for detection - hence the radar consumable. But it's only a temporary tool, CV must get back to the game, and their interaction with DD must be balanced. Rest of your post - you got some right observations and some wrong, but it's like your opinion maaan, to cite the classic. I disagree with some of your points, but I respect your opinion

.

Well, sure, that's a problem when you try to push, But on retreating, which will do 90% of the time in CA it's kinda better. It's like those rear placed turrets on tanks - it got it's advantages and flaws, you need to adjust. To tell you the truth I didn't play with AFT on them. BFT and Expert Marksman were a must. Ranga can be useful, but I prefered Demolition Expert on them, as I like swapping HE and AP on GE CA's, so that extra fires were a way to go for me. Now I expect Konigsberg to be less powerfull then it was, but still good. It's main advantages are still there - accuracy, strong AP, hydros and 2 sets of torpedo launchers per side. It's just not as reliable when it fights BB's. BFT, EM and AFT nerf was harsher for Nurnberg, since it meets stronger opponents. I used to fight Myokos and do well in those fights, now I expect it to be kinda butchered by said Myoko. I must have missed the part of patch notes saying something about rudder shift changes for Nurnberg? Can you post the exact patch note? I actually prefer Roon. But, remember that BFT, EM and AFT were also used by other tier IV, V and VI CA's, which were actually hit as hard as ze germans. Murmańsk could actually use AFT with good results, same with Omaha and Marblehead. Kuma and Phoenix also got hitted, not to mention Clevelad (I didn't play it with AFT and not recomended it, but still a lot of peps took it). So, to sum it up. Why the hell did you had to put this GERMAN BIAS nonsense?! What the hell man. There we go, nice and real constructive discussion, objective and balanced, and then you go with this bullshiet german bias comment. For realz. The only russian bias I can currently point out is buff to Kutuzov to compensate for AFT and EM nerf - which, apart from Albany, didn't occur for any other CA. German CA are as strong as their counterparts, which is not too much, since all CA's are underdogs now.

Obejrzałem filmik o amerykańskich krążownikach bo na tym się znam. "Z Desa nie strzelamy z burzaków" Dziękuję, dobranoc. ps. Pensacola przyjmuje cytadele od dziobu aż miło, więc nie ma sensu taktyka na front. Z NO nie ma sensu ta sama taktyka na dużych odległościach, papą się ustawiamy jak jesteśmy relatywnie blisko. Chowanie się za górką z Desa i lobowanie ponad jest poniżej krytyki. To to co wyłapałem, bo pół godziny to za długo na mnie po pracy. ale propsuję za chęci.

Roon has it's own problems. But, I managed to thrash Iowa with it, and it sure as hell was nearly impossible in Baltimore. However, I'm glad I finished my grind with Konig and Nurnberg just after release - I remember them as very nice and enjoyable cruisers. I wonder how they'd feel now.

Why is that? Do you play on higher tiers? How most of DD evaporate in first few minutes? Yup, they pop torpedoes from enemy DD's - not much I can do as a CA to help them with it. That's one thing. Second is: I'm usually spotted long before I can spot enemy DD's, even before our DD's can spot each other, so the enemy DD will plop it's torpedoes into water and just retreat/wait for support. And so it goes. "Pushing" into defence doesn't mean nothing if you can't keep your advantage. Also, I think that actually, troublemaker for example can confirm how far ahead I tend to play, since I was once tanking his Zao and few other ships at once. So, please, let me know how do you stomp opponents DD's - will gladly learn something new!

I'm sorry to bother you good sir, but you should really try to use this amazing skill, invented and perfected by humanity for millenia, and called "reading": Enjoy your read!

It depends on angle. Range is just a bonus factor, but angle means more here. When BB shows you full broadside you can put decent hurt on it (10k dmg on BB never happened to me on Yamato though). But when said Yamato shows you only front or is nicely angled - forget about decent damage.

It's not exactly that you can't do well - you surely can! Divisioning with a stealthy DD that provides spot, or even better a CV - and you can have great games! But when you play solo you will always bump into a DD wall: a) either your BB are so scared to move that game is a stagnant 15 minutes slugoff, with First Blood happening around 10 minute into game. b) BB don't care and get butchered by torps, BB and CA's in 5 minutes tops. c) DD of one team are much worse then those on the other team and get stomped hard, at which point you're at the mercy of opposing team. All this scenarios are utterly boring and unsatisfying. It got so ridiculous recently, that I actually stopped playing Roon, although it's a great cruiser - I'm just not interested in gameplay on tiers VIII+ right now. It's even worse then "BB happy hours" pre 5.1 patch Well. I played all tier VIII CA's, apart from Kutuzov (which I intend to get now). And NO is by far the worst. First - giant citadel. Only CA that is easier to cit on tier VIII is Mogami, but only by fraction of an inch. NO is very fragile. Second - crap guns. Ballistics are very poor. AP can pen broadsided CA's and do decent damage on broadsided BB (few of them at least, and on very close range) - but any angling immediately turns AP almost useless. Which brings us the 3rd flaw - HE are dealing poor damage with poor fire chance. Only GE CA are worse here, but at least Hipper got good AP and torps to boot. Next - poor AA. Recent patch nerfed AA on NO - screw logic right? Next - no torpedoes. Next - poor torpedo protection - you will take a huge chunks of damage when you plop on some torp. Hipper and Atago have much better underwater protection (that's historical accuracy for you - Astoria, Quincy and Vincennes case). I played NO in rankeds and after 50 (or so) games I reached rank V, but my nerves were on the brink of exploding. I recently grinded Hipper - wooooah man, what a difference. On randoms Hipper is great.

Indeed. Right now there is no point in playing tier VII+ CA's at all. After 5.4 there might be a reason. As for now I'm only playing team battles.

Imagine the worst tier VIII cruiser. That's New Orleans. Also, imagine the worst tier IX cruiser - that's Baltimore. Enjoy.

Nerf for AFT was neded, and good that it happened. BFT and Expert Marksman - that was BS and was completely uncalled for. However, I can understand where it came from - WG nerfed all skills basing on similar principle. BFT and EM hitted Konigsberg and Nurnberg hard, but the same is true for Omaha, Murmansk and Kuma. Hipper is very nice though, Roon also looks promising.