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Lol kutry torpedowe. Wczoraj wieczorem dopiero doczytałem że tam nie być nic większego. Oh lol. Czyli, będzie czołgowa kampa, tylko że na wodzie. Ciekawe czy będzie opcja płetwonurków. Albo szmuglowania whisky do wybrzeży stanów zjednoczonych. Ej, ale dobry news jest taki, że wtedy wszyscy panowie z klubu "gdzie PMW w WoWs i polskie drzewko w WoT?!" będą mieli pole do popisu. Brechtam i na półeczkę jak Steel Ocean czy jak to tam się nazywało.

Didn't know that, which is cool. Also, I didn't know Cleve was sporting superheavies But Cleveland is out of place, and everybody knows and feels that. Some pre-Pensa should be there, but I guess we'll have to wait.

And you disregard the fact that I was the one saying GE CA were freakin ok, that they didn't need the buffs for HE ammo, that AFT nerf was absolutely needed for small caliber guns cruisers, that stealth fire nerf, which you might missed few weeks ago, 700 meters range were taken from Des, now it can stealth fire from around 17 km, not 16,3 - I also commented was perfectly ok and needed? The numerous comments I made about issues about CV's torping DD's with ease? Duuuude. You dissapoint me man. Use your brain, I know you have one. This topic is about CA with radar against DD, and discussion is is it OP or not? Well? Is it? Does 5 DD's per side pre-radar was "fun and engaging" gameplay for you? Cause radar helps with that. I'm being objective, and I point out that the "troubles" DD's skippers have are bread and butter for every other class. And that the any issue with survivability lies somewhere else, not in radar. If you can't understand that, if you can't comprehend what the fck I'm saying, then I wasted my time with you, which, again, saddens me. Also, on a side, I had a quite extensive discussion with two great US DD skippers when the radar was introduced and already popular, Kluszkov and Grymlinek - and their opinion was that it's ok, that the problems lie in different aspects: Gearing weak turrets, lack of ability to dodge CV attacks in other then US DD's etc. So, my opinion is also backed by experience of damn best DD players on EU servers, and my own too boot, since I managed above 60% win rate, and 50k average on Fletcher exactly when radar was introduced. So, my experience covers all aspects, my opinion is formed on game experience, opinions of good DD skippers and my own vision of what CA should do. Also, does it ring any freakin bell in your poor head, that the absolute top results are being done now by DD and CV's? Who the [edited] care about their low survival rate if top is reaching results I can dream on with my CA?

Awww, you're not being nice :< clueless. Do you even Des Moines bro? I don't freakin care about his torp range, what I care is my radar range vs my detection range. In Des case it's 600 meters - not enoug buffor for any DD, be it Shima or Gearing to avoid being spotted, unless he already is escaping straight away from me. So, even if he try to avoid harm and drop torps, he will not see me coming until it's too late. Strike one. Clueless. We're talking about CA vs DD fight. CA doesn't represent any danger for DD. DD survival rates are being influenced by DD on DD fight. Now, is this a topic: omg DD are so OP against my DD? Or "OMG I yet again got torped in my smoke - nerf DD torps"? No, it's not. It's about CA with radar against DD. Does CA rotflstomp DD's left and right and drop their survival rate? No. And in that light, in line with the topic main theme, my response "about not taking risk" is valid, and I'm saddened you failed to process this. Strike two. By CA hand. Is that clear enough for you, or should I make infographic? I don't care about DD fights against themselves, let DD skippers worry about that. I worry about my class and it's capabilities. And pre radar DD could elude me, survive as freakin long as he wished, while not being in any danger. Now he can't. I don't give a single damn if he die by engaging Benson in Fubuki, or eating torps from Shimakaze. I care if I can deal with good DD skipper if I play my cards right - I can. Does he have a chance of survival if I screw up? He does. Do you nitpick crapfrom my post for no reason at all? You do. Strike three, out. I'm done, if you wish to continue about DD vs CA balance discussion, write me a PM, if you wish to talk about overall DD survivability in this game - proceed without me as it doesn't interest me.

As it should be. It's a high risk high reward class, with the least HP pool, and it's odds of surviving are not diminishing by CA/BB influence, but hot DD on DD action - I guess you would know that? It's even more obvious on rankeds if you played them. CA's were totally useless there. So, who freakin kills DD's? Other DD's, either by torps or by gunfire, CA's pre radar were opportunists at best, targets mostly, now they're hunters. And I completely understand the outcry that they are a danger now. But, for the sake of the game, balance and overall gameplay this is necessary and welcome change. Same was with AFT nerf - the outcry was amazing, but if you could recall - I was totally for it, and wrote few posts how it is the much needed change to remove imbalance. And I did it while I'm almost exclusively a CA player. So it always pisses me off, when every freakin one says the change is good, and it's not even close to the BFT, AFT and EM change impact, but the whine is so strong with DD captains, that you actually believe they are unable to adjust the playstyle to new enviroment. My "snark" comes from simple observation - if a DD captain doesn't want to get killed pre - radar he didn't have a problem with it, while still retaining his ability to influence battle, either by capping, spotting or torpedoing. Now, he still doesn't have that problem, but if he wants to have an impact on the battle, he needs to take risks, as every other class does. Whining that one class didn't have to take risks to make damage, and now it has - and because of that the consumable on CA's is broken and need to be reworked? What the hell is this crap? So, when I play a US CA, and need to get close to do damage cause freakin' orbital shells, and therefore I get my [edited]fked by scores of BB - so I guess BB guns are broken, and need to be changed completely? The same with CA's defensive fire? CV players need to keep their distance from AA CA's or their planes will be knocked down - so I guess nerf all AA on CA's? Or give CV a invulnerability consumable for their attacks? Cause how is it possible, that a vessel that is designed to kill me/my planes is actually doing it? See the lack of logic here? TLR Des Moines vs DD's

Recently I heard a lot of "power creep" here and there, regarding CA's. And apart from NO and Baltimore, which were always very bad ships from OBT times, I just don't see it. Moskwa is not a problem for Des, neither is Hindenburg. Same on tier VI, although Budionny looks like a dangerous competition for Cleve, since he's much more accurate. Now, if they want to buff muh cruisorz - I take all the buffs like a meth junkie and ask for more. But the way I see it - it's all well on cruisers front. On my way to Zao btw, loving Ibuki so far

[edited]

Well, I disagree. You drop the weakspot at rear, you get guns that bring world of pain on close range, you get freakin HP, you get armour and AA. Also, as for camo, remember that everyone else also goes up with detection range, so that cancels itself out. But, yeah, both of them are horrible, so it's a moot discussion Des is the jewel here

QFT. I'm also kinda against spotting behind islands, but I think it's more of a balancing issue then realistic - it enabled some team cooperation tactics, which is always good.

I just love them for what you mentioned - versatility. I don't feel gimped by anything when I drive Omaha or Murmansk. When I sailed out with Furutaka or Kirov I loved the damage from 203 (180mm in case of Kirov) guns, but at that tier DPM is just so much important then raw shell power. And Omaha has good AP as well as HE, and great reload. Like I said, beast of a ship

My opinion is that tier V CA/CL's are very close to each other in terms of how powerfull they are. It's one of the best spots for cruisers, and it's actually pretty hard to determine which one is better. What you wrote about Murmansk is true, but it's the same for Kirov and Konigsberg. Both of these cruisers were added later, when first wave of fresh meat rolled over the US and IJN lines. So, considerable amount of players already had experience in driving this class. The statistics might or might not show just that, but I'm betting that average player doesn't start with freakin russian line. I mean, would you? So the stats of regular Omaha and Furutaka were "dragged" down by average players, while Konigsberg, Kirov and Murmansk stats were above average since many players already gained some insight. Furthermore, if you compare Murmansk to Marblehead and Omaha, you also need to take into account the influence of AFT on those ships. Marblehead with AFT was batshit insanely OP. I mean, I had 80k average on her after 80 battles, with win rate on 80%. After the nerf I have "only" 69k average and 78% win rate. I could never reach those levels of OPness in Konigsberg, despite playing it at the same time. Yeah, I did fairly well with Konig, but she lacks the utility of Omaha class. She punishes "scrubs" better then Omaha, but suffer when playing against good players, as whole GE CA line does. That's why Hindenbug and Roon statistics are going down. Omaha on C hull is basically a little worse Murmansk, and Murmansk is borderline OP. I can't believe, that the differences between those two ships are so huge, that one lands on top and second lands on bottom. I think that here comes the influence of "good player bought Murmansk" argument. Where we come back to the previously mentioned "good players grind new lines" argument. I also recently took Omaha, Marble and Murmansk for a spin (last two I take pretty often, since I love how Omaha class ships plays), and I must say, Omaha vs Murmansk - I didn't feel any difference. I did 100k, 80k 60k battles on both of them. While Marble is hitted hard with AFT nerf and it's the worst of the bunch. I also tried the new Furutaka. And since she was nice and stuff, I didn't really feel the "carry" ability in her. She shoots too rare for tier V games, when DPS is all that matters. Same with Kirov (yeah, I've broken my vow for 2 games, but sold it after them ), guns are great, and very good ballistics, but on tier V, you need to pummel your enemies as fast as you can, and Omaha can provide that. Which leaves us with Konigsberg, which I didn't play for quite a while. To sum up - I think that all tier V CA's are very good vessels, but from regular ships, I think Omaha is the most forgiving. You don't need to know the AP mechanic, you don't need to know how to yolo rush BB with torps, you don't need to know how to keep all your guns on target while dodging. You just need to aim and dodge

I've written it few times before. DD vs CA, especially US CA, pre - radar was a very one sided fight. A class that was considered to be a DD counter, was fatally handicapped. The only way that CA could do it's "job" was to cooperate with CV. When CV wasn't willing to do so, or was absent (and we all know how many CV's are playing these days), that crippled CA to be blind and frustrated, since it only could spot a DD if the said DD wanted himself to be spotted. Smoke, used defensively, usually covers your mistake in judgement. You didn't read map well enough, played overaggressively etc. When a CA does that, he gets instagibbed by focused CA and BB fire. When DD did that, he just poped smoke and "all was well". Torping smoke is at best unreliable solution. Smoke, when used defensively, is a "way out" or "another chance" for a DD. Which is cool, but can't be 100% foolproof with how the spotting mechanic is implemented. You can't pop smoke defensively, and then retreat from it to safe distance every time. Now you have to outsmart your opponent. Bait the radar out. Dance on the verge of radar range, then vanish and watch if the radar will pop out. Then retreat and wait 30 sec - you're now free to go for 4 minutes. I was playing Fletcher when they introduced radar, and although I'm far less skilled then good DD's skipper, I managed to get nice results in it - so if I can do it, anyone maining DD's wil lhave no problems playing around radar (to an extent of course). And radar is a perfect solution for this. Not only it's not overpowered. I mean, only Des Moines and Atlanta have enough firepower to actually kill the DD within the short duration window. Rest of CA's either need support of the team, which, as we all know, is at best rare, or the DD was heavily beaten early in the game. And, let's stop with the nonsense, that when radared the DD is instadead. It's still a nimble target, and unless it's like 5 km from you it still can survive 25 - 35 seconds. It's 3 - 4 salvoes pre-loaded in case of US CA VII - IX and 6 - 7 salvoes in case of Des Moines. And it all boils down to one question - is the DD captain willing to take risk? Cause this is essence of this consumable. You can't dance on the border of your spotting range for 10 minutes while sending wave after wave of torp, and when you screw up, you just pop smoke and retreat to safety - those days are over, as well as AFT CA's, 155 HE shells doing insane damage, US BB's turning on dime, and many other stuff, that needed to be removed. I actually want every CA to have radar, but hydro on tier IX+ GE CA's also somewhat does it's job. To sum up - radar is far from overpowered, it's actually pretty balanced, and add's depths both to DD gameplay and CA gameplay

Awww, I'm blushing! I'll write my thought's about tier V CL later

If it's true, then, of course, I see no problems with modding stuff, if someone wishes. But I don't have such knowledge and therefore I'm easily influenced by rumors etc

Well, in my opinion, that only shows that not always statistics reflect the true situation. Murmansk for example, is now basically Omaha with C hull. Same range, same RoF (better AP cause reasons), better torps and mobility. However, does this make such an impact, that somehow Omaha is worst and Murmansk is the best? Konigsberg is good, I admit it. Might be best. But Konig suffers shitloads when faced against heavy BB games, or better skilled players who actually angle. Omaha just gets crapdone, she doesn't care if she fights BB, CA or DD. She has answer for everything, is reliable, easy adapts to situation. For me, she's the best regular CA (CL!!!! CL DROPSIQQQQ!). Also, I don't really see this power creep against US CA. Hindenburg dropped considerable amount due to people recognising it's weakness - no broadside = no damage, also Moskwa does Hindenburg job better. Also, a lot of dudes are being amazed by new RU stuff. I had option to play two of those, Schors and Czapajew, and I think both of them are subpar, with Czapajew being okay-ish. Mockba is just a big fat HP pool to beat, Donski is just as vanilla as Baltimore. Statistics are of course exctatic, but they're not necessarily accurate - very small playerbase actually grinding ruskies, and quite a lot of them are experienced players. But I don't really argue, it's my opinion. Depends on what you wish to believe, statistics or your experience. My experience is different from statistics

Ah, something like DoTa evolved from Warcraft 3? Well, you could do that, but I don't see how it could be incorporated in WoWs. [EDIT] Well, actually, it might be cool. Peps could add missions to the game, like defending convoy, or stuff like that. But I think the priority is to add in - game endgame mechanic, clans, more lines and nations. Then we can start modding stuff, when we have enough of content. Right now, I'm so bored with this game, that I actually think about breaking my vow of not playing RU CA's before UK CA's. There's not much to do :< Not to mention, that at least CA's and DD's have few lines, but CV's?

Well, I freakin' loved Omaha. Beast of a ship. As well as Murmansk and Marblehead (Marble was OP pre AFT nerf, now its meh). You need to upgrade you hull to C asap. When you hit tier VII games, which is kinda often right now, you will need every km of range possible. That's also the reason I advise against buying Marblehead - 12,7 km range on tier VII is just too low.

I'm actually against mods. Enabling mods is always an invitation to exploit game mechanics, and I rather have slower development, then never ending battle against cheats.

I don't think so. There is some necessities to make a game that long lived. Mainly it's esport scene, or some other semi competitive endgame mechanic (like Arenas in World of Warcraft). Neither can be found in WoWs, and from what devs are saying, they aren't particularly high on their priorities list... I just want UK cruisers, maybe italian ones, and I'm sold for few more months.

Well, If they introduce one nation each year, we will have "content" until 2020, and I kinda doubt we will be still playing WoWs then...

Yes, I know that. For me however it's just simpler to call them all cruisers and abbreviate it to single CA, then to divide them on CA and CL, while i still might be obligated to explain less versed in nautical affairs what is CL and what is CA. It's enough for me that some dudes doesn't know what CV is So, for me, cruiser = CA

Yup, I think that's the case. What I can't understand, is that they have pretty active forum, where they could see that their playerbase wasn't interested in RU CA's, as much as they were interested in other nations vessels. I can understand difficulties with accessing UK archives, but I think it's kinda "soon" argument. As was pointed above, they somehow acquired needed data for GE BB's and CA's, and they already cooperated with UK while creating their WoT UK tanks. So, I'm also voting for "economic gone wild" (not mistaking with teens gone wild) argument. And good that it backfired at them - maybe they'll learn

Except, RU community stated they didn't want them too - we have a player in clan that regularly browse their forums and translate stuff So, where's the logic here?

Are you prepared for flood of traumatised DD captains that *gasp* were actually spotted, or even worse, shot at! Damn those retarded cruiser captains! Why can't they wander here and there while I remain at 7 km from here while being invisible! They ruined everything! Clearly, you don't. But, by all means, I will not try to change your point of view, maybe only giggle a bit.