C4PT41N_0BV10US

Ok, since we disagree, obviously, I have only one question for you: How would you rate state of the game at this point? You can exclude RN. And an honest answer, without explaining why. Do you think game improved since CBT/OBT apart from added content? Oh, on a side note, those cruisers are super aggressive. More aggressive and in your face style then anything we have in game. But that is not what community want. They want another line of Zao's. That's what they want. A line in which even the shittiest of players will perform quite nice. Instead they got line that outperform Zao, but you need to put effort in it. And that's too much for them. Give me an honest answer for my question, and I be on my way, I think I said enough for one topic.

Dziex za miłe słowa, fajnie że się podoba. Tricksy z omijaniem BBczków zostawiam na specjalny filmik: krążownikowe tricksy dropsiqowe, gdzie będę pokazywał różne sposoby walki z różnymi okrętami. Część jest opisana w poradniku w sumie, skręcanie pod salwę i gwałtowne hamowanie. Co do mojego angielskiego - jest fatalny. Pisanie jeszcze jako tako mi idzie, ale wymowę mam fatalną. Bardzo dawno nie używałem engrishu więcej niż 5 minut na TSie. Że tak powiem, jestem świadom pewnych niedociągnięć zarówno językowych jak i związanych z niewyraźną wymową, powtórzeniami (natomiast, natomiast, natomiast) i yyyy mmmm aaaa. Staram się nad tym pracować, ale to jest dość trudne, jak na pewno dużo osób sobie zdaje sprawę Ponoć mam radiowy głos, ponoć. Ale, to wszystko to i tak pikuś w porównaniu z nowym voice actorem dla RN...

Neptune is love. Once you go british you can never go back.

Really now? Well then! I guess, apart from RN game is just peachy! ALL community contributors must be thrilled about how great the game is right? And I don't fuckin care what community contributors say. I have my own brain and I use it. If I see, that I make better results in RN ships then other ships, while topping the score tables all across each cruiser I play, but then I watch Flamu, who says: line is crap and situational, what should I doooo? Who should I believeeeee? I see I do 2k salvoes on angled targets, and moan about no HE. But then I pick Kutuzov, and do 350 damage each salvo cause target is freakin armoured and shells just doesn't do damage, but I guess Notser is right. Those ships need HE badly!

Oh, I am looking at the bigger picture! I have the feeling that you don't Because, up to this point, it was average Joe who was backed up by wargaming, and look where it got us. We have BB dominating, cause CV's were too hard for them to manage, so they nerfed them. DD were also too hard for them, so not only they were nerfed, but also cruiser radar was buffed (totally uncalled for buff) with halving radar consumable cooldown. Cruisers are becoming more and more subpar class. Higher tiers are already becoming more and more 5 BB 2 CA 5 DD games. Furthermore, average Joe couldn't make the strike CV work, cause it was harder then just random clicking and receiving citadels in BB's. So they nerfed them to the ground and introduced Fighter Decks, who nobody called for. Find me one skilled CV player, that wished FD's were introduced in the game. Even better, they nerf CV's even further, while still buffing Fighter Decks, and nobody still calls for that, apart from average Joe, who sails his BB, and doesn't want to be bothered by some planes and turning his ship once in a while. And while game is slowly devolving into absolute crap, here we are, discussing should we heed average Joe more, or maybe not? I don't know which game you're so successfull and devoted to community. My guess would be EVE, but that's a game that is one in a milion, same as it's community. And, furthermore, it's as opposite to casual gaming as it's possible. On the other hand, we have a similar to WoWs game - Elite Dangerous. And it's community is pretty similar to WoWs one. There are a lot of casual "forum dads" there, where they find a Cobra Mk III spaceship an endgame vessel. You can have full gimped Cobra Mk III in one evening. But, they voice their opinion quite loudly, and from a masterpiece game it might be, Elite Dangerous devolved into slowly dying production, cause any real needed change would meet average Joe displeasure. The problem is, both here and in ED is, that no matter what you would do, average Joe will always be displeasured. He will never be satisfied. Cause he is a bad player, and he will always be "food" for better player. But in WoWs, he will sail BB, and once in a while, he will get that double citadel hit, cause game design allows it. It is of course at expense of better player, who dodged, used cover, ambushed and whatnot. And so, it will always end with frustration for better player, and mild satisfaction for average Joe. But better player will leave the game, cause he will realise, sooner or later, that he's opinion is not important, and game changed into something he doesn't want to play. As WoWs now. The only reason that keeps me playing this game now, is RN. There is no point to playing higher tier random games - BB's dominate everything and I'm at their mercy, no matter how well I play. To sum it up. No, you're wrong. As far as content go, yeah, average Joe should be the guy who decides what should be added. Containers, new lines, clans, team battles, prem ships, flags, camos - this is all in average Joe dominium. But balance, game design - this should be kept as far away from average Joe as possible. Average Joe should be presented with results and told: here, play it. It sounds harsh, but I'm also speaking from experience, and too many good games were killed cause they were developed in accordance to "masses" wishes. And scenario is all the same. Game is released, it's nice and a lot of peps play it. Average Joe joins the game, don't want to learn, demand changes. Good players oppose changes, come with alternatives. Good players advices are disregarded, average Joe wishes are implemented. Game devolve. Repeat few times. Good players leave game. Average Joe plays for a while, and then migrates after good players. Game dies. And how it is all regarding RN cruisers? Yeah, they need few tweaks, that I agree with. But first of all, no, they don't need HE. And no, they don't need that much buffs to survivability. But, no matter what I say, it's the average Joe who will decide here.

Oh, you must be nice person in real life Unfortunately, I'm not that nice. But, you ring a fine question - who is the more important player here? An below average player, or a good one. Too which the game designers should appeal more. Well, obviously, you would answer that to the average Joe, since he is the majority. Well, we have that already in game. BB's are an average Joe dream. Fighter Deck CV's are an average Joe dream. Two classes, that DESTROY this game and make it unplayable, unfun, and limited. But I guess average Joe is delighted! But the problem is, now the "pro" players start looking for something else. And since there are no "pro" players, there is no esport, there are no clans, there is less and less content, less and less guides, media exposure, streams, vids. Aaaaand we have WoWp again. I know it might sound harsh, but I don't give a damn about his opinion, or opinion of a weak/not understanding player, when it comes to game balance and game development. Because he will not organise an event, he will not make vids and streams, he will not push this game into something bigger and better. Because he is a casual, he doesn't have time, he have wife, kids, 2 jobs, other hobbies, whatever. It is a dedicated player that utterly makes this game better and more enjoyable. It's a harsh truth, but, in my opinion, it's the truth. And, I say it again, higher tiers, especially VI to VIII are more important for the game, then II - V. Because they might be used for more then grinding. Furthermore, how much time you grind low tiers and how long you grind high tiers? Which costs you more time and effort? I would love for each line to start crappy and improve greatly from tier V. So yes, while I might not play lower tiers, I also never said whole line is great or not. I said that ships I played are great. I do. But, also, I think it's hardly worth an effort you know. To cry so much and moan, and whine. I understand, somebody dislikes them, it's not what he expected, he thinks they're weak. Ok. But then, I would see that there are some players, that are getting outstanding results with those ships. So I would also try to do that, I would try to get better, I would try to reach ships that are said to be better. But they don't even do that. They don't put minimum effort into changing this situation. You know, I was a complete noob in WoT. A totall red guy. Cause nobody helped me get better, and I didn't also had a need to get better. I just drived tanks, got those that I liked and fought with them. Yeah, I loved Tiger II and it was mildly frustrating that it wasn't what I expected from that mighty machine, same with Panther. But was I this outraged? Never. It's just a fuckin game. And not that great why we're at it. It still develops. And you know, I might not be known on ENG section so much, but on PL section everybody knew Dropsiq was waiting for the Royal Navy. And they asked me, hey, Dropsiq, what if they are totall crap? And I said, well, I would still grind them to tier X since those are great ships, and I like to fight in them. Even if they are subpar. So, although I have empathy for players that can't handle RN, I don't have empathy for bad players demanding stuff cause it's too hard for them. Get better if you really want. See - they perform great, you need to get better. Cause if we will have empathy, and then adhere to lower player standards, we will just kill this game with our own hands. Bonus: lulz dreadnaught And bonus nr 2: high caliber and confederate As predicted, MM is crapand I don't intend to play either Danae and Caledon for at least a week. [EDIT] Oh, and I dismissed first two paragraphs of your post, since I think we just don't understand each other, and my english isn't good enough to say what I mean. So let's just skip that, aight?

This is Schopenhauer man. You took example that is obviously skewed. And murder is murder. You can't commit almost murder, semi murder, and half slaughter. It's not based on opinion, it's a fact: person was forcefully killed - murder. You drive Ford Focus, and it's utter crap. So that means, that Ford Mustang is also crap? This is Ford, and this is Ford. You have a 9 mm beretta, and it' can't penetrate 10 mm hardened armour. So that means that 30 mm gatling gun with uranium shells also won't do it? They both shoot projectiles after all? You get the idea. As a base of principle, I don't dismiss weaker, or how you put it, lesser players. I avoid calling people noobs, potatoes and tomatoes. However, if I make an effort, to explain something to someone, and I show facts, arguments, detailed explanation based on my experience, even do a freakin vid in which I show how good it perform, provide statistics and comparisons, and if I only hear wah wah go play tier 1 - 5, or that my opinion is "comic". Well, it's dr. Dropsiq and mister Drops. The second one is a bit snappy, sarcastic, and overall an [edited]. I have much respect for people that don't play as good as me. It might be lack of time, talent, ability, approach - anything. But I don't respect people, who don't think and are being douchebags, when I'm trying to be nice You get the idea. And, although yes, he's opinion is surely viable and he is entitled to it, it might not change that intelectual value of said opinion is null. It's like me having an opinion on colonialism. I have one, but I'm ignorant. And I will accept and explanation showing me why I'm ignorant. That's where I begin to differ from my two buddies in that topic. But if someone went on a rampage in your community how X and Y is crap. And you could see he is clearly wrong, explaining him in detail why is that, only to receive aggressive posts telling you to [edited]off and how ignorant and comic you are, how would your community act? After two days of detailed explanations? If you went back to the first page of this thread, you would see a pretty big effort I made already to explain my opinion. So, I'm sorry, but at some point you have to say enough I will, but like I said. There is a difference in discussion with people who voice their opinion in very definite terms, but are not backed up by anything. And people that also have a strong opinion, but can actually base it on anything. Have an idea of what they talk about. You are and you are not. You are entitled to voice an opinion if they are fun or not. If they feel strong on CO - OP or not. But you shouldn't voice opinions on PvP with limited experience in it. I mean, is this really that hard? There are a sterotypes, that how many Poles are in a room, that many opinions are in the room. But this is new even for me

Lulz. This gonna be fun. They kinda rushed it, didn't they But you get the heal right, everything's gonna be fine right? I'll be ok, right? Right?

I surely will. I'm not particularly interested in Emerald, but since we got 2 Danae's in PL navy, and they were the only cruisers we ever had, I'm looking forward to them. Already have them in port, maybe I give them a spin today. Are tier IV MM more balanced already, or is it still full of Danae's?

That is true, and I don't negate that. I negate, that one has to at least play them a bit, preferably reach higher tiers, to vocal his displeasure about whole line. It's like playing a Kawachi and Myogi only, and then saying Amagi and Yamato are crap. Isn't it a bit stupid?

Jestem ciekaw co tam kombinują. No ale, niższe tiery to niższe tiery. Mało mnie interesują, tak długo jak nie ruszą mi Fiji i Edinki. No i Leandra też nie Reszte mogą sobie nerfić

I can understand that - like I understand what Admiral_H_Nelson wrote. But Admiral_H_Nelson at least tries and plays a lot of cruisers. So hes opinion is ok, cause it comes from experience. If he does decent on other cruisers, have a lot of games in them, and dislikes them for having different playstyle, as well as acknoledging the fact that those ships perform (if not overperform) in right hands - that's all fine with me. I also agree, that lower tiers should be easy mode. If they're not - this should be changed. Lower tiers are for new players/casual players. In this design higher tiers feel easier for various reasons then lower ones, which is not very smart. I would give HE to the lower tiers and take it back at tier VI. That would be my recommendation, but I have to yet play them, so it's a bit in vacum, based only on other opinions.

quoted post removed Well, I'm just done. You are just stupid aren't you? And I patiently tried to explain stuff to you, why I would have achieved better results while talking to a hamburger. <sigh> Whatevs man, ignored.

I kinda see what might be the problem on lower tiers. Nassau, Kaiser and Konig already broken the meta on tier's III - V with their minimal superstructures, accurate guns and unpenetrable armour. Dealing damage with AP to one of them might be impossible. But, again, is this really RN CL's issue, or rather GE BB and BB's in general issue? Cause when fighting DD's and CA/CL's I have no problem with sticking to AP only. But not being able to deal reliable damage to almost half of the team might seem harsh. Nevertheless, coming with conclusion based on tier II - V about whole line is wrong. Especially, like I mentioned, there is no point in keeping those ships in port, other then "fun" or "collector" approach. While higher tier ships might be used even after grind. I'm basing anything on facts. You have 201 games in cruiser total, not one broken 50k average, most of them are having hard time breaking 20k average. You have very few games in them, and you don't play them even on average level. And yet, you have very definite opinion about them, dismissing opinions of players much better then you, and much more experienced then you. You continuosly attack me for discussing this subject and my different opinion about those ships. Even after I explained why I didn't play low tier ships, and at least I did it twice in this topic, you still ask me to post irrelevant screens of me playing them and achieving good results. And when I call you on your lack of understanding, lack of results and lack of experience, above is what I get? You did nothing else in this topic as to post unconstructive whines and salty comments how your RN was [edited] up" by Wargaming despite people showing you how well tiers VI+ perform. Then you proceed to limit the discussion to tiers I - V, for what reason exactly? I don't asked you to chill, I was being sarcastic. Unless you have something smart, you can join Akula971 in a corner of salt and tears, and cry how mean WG touched you in that place.

I think that might be a big problem. GE BB's were already extremely stron in other cruisers, even Omaha class was having troubles with dealing reliable damage to them. I think that lower RN CL's should get HE ammo, since fires are only way you can do substantial damage to a ship with no/minimum superstructures. But I would say, it's less of a RN CL's design problem, and more of a BB design problem

Oh, no worries. Pick any ship from your cruisers and it's bad. I don't think you went above 50k in any of your cruisers. You have less games in cruisers total, then I have in tier IV's But I guess you're a cruiser specialist right? How about we turn the tables, and unless you can do 50k average on any of your cruiser I will just ignore you? How about that? Quite well in Leander you say? Ooooh, 32k! That's impressive! And 59k maximum damage! Woah man. I think you need to chill a bit, or the servers might explode!

The question was: So I picked ships that I played recently, which also have similar characteristics (lots of small caliber guns with nice RoF) and compared them against each other. Schors vs Fiji, Kutuzov/Czapajew vs Edinbourgh. And results are similar, which would mean, that despite losing HE and fire damage, the ships still do well enough to beat kings of the damage in this game. I don't compare Svietlana vs Danae as I don't have them and didn't play them. When I will play them, I will compare them also. But I want my Minotaur, so I got my priorities straight quoted post removed [edited]

Znaczy czekaj, nerfią niższe tiery? Ale które niższe tiery?

I don't really know. I'll be honest, I played around 100 games with RN and I find them very strong. I constantly compare the results I get with them, with the results of the very similar line I grinded just before them - RU ones, one of the best firestarter in the game right? Now, here are the results: Dimitri Donski - 66 battles, 67% win rate, 79k damage (ended in unfavorable meta, had few bad games in a row when ending grinding, would say its about 85k average) Kutuzov - 123 battles, almost 75k damage, 73% win rate. Czapajew - 30 battles, 75k damage (win rate irrelevant, too few games played) Schors - 27 battles, 82k damage Budionny - 21 battles, 61k damage And for royal navy: Neptune - 32 battles, 85k average - I think I can bump this to 100k average Edinbourgh - 33 battles, 76k average Fiji - 19 battles, 89k average Leander - 6 battles, 56k average So, despite not having HE ammo, damage output is higher then damage output on pretty similar vessels with HE ammo. There is of course a factor here - torpedoes. I personally expect, that average damage when sticking only to guns would be a bit lower, let's say 10k lower. But since torpedoes are much better it equalizes. Let me also note, that RU cruisers from VI - VIII are one of the highest damage dealer in game, especially cause of racking meaningless damage on BB's with fires.

Nie powiem żebym był specjalnie zaskoczony. Coś tak fajnego nie mogło pozostać bez zmian nie?

Depends how good NO captain is. Because, he can deal massive damage from front on you with AP (I need to confirm it, but I think 203 mm guns overmatch you on front? I surely remember taking some huge hits bow on from 203 mm guns cruisers, will have to check some vids). I disagree with whole this "they can't 1 v 1 thing". They surely can, and are pretty good at it. The most 2 funny and surprising things in those cruisers, which I guess advance cruiser players will notice: a) insane acceleration let's you dodge shells and torps better. You actually accelerate while making a hard turn How sick is this! b) there is a shift on survivability of those cruisers. In other nations you rely on your armour and angling to "tank" damage. With RN you rely on heal to get you back to fighting capability. This is pretty funny Yesterday I was trying new position on some map, and a freakin Kiev torped me into oblivion. I lost almost all of my HP, only to click heal, and then proceed to regain HALF of my total HP back. So the kinda crucial thing in RN, and it satifies me greatly, is that you just can't allow to be oneshotted. Citadel? Double citadel? Triple citadel? That's all ok, as long as you got a sliver of HP left. And how's that Neptune going for you creamgravy?

Nope. BBczki są u mnie na cenzurowanym, więc wszystko, nawet moje ukochane krążowniki liniowe nie będą nawet tknięte moim niezwykłym talentem oratorskim i pisarskim. Natomiast szykuje filmiki z Royal Navy

Załadowałem Dilmah to dział, nasmarowałem biszkoptami to co trzeba i jakoś poszło. Generalnie wczoraj dość nieźle szło na Neptunie, 16 gier wygranych, 2 porażki. Rzekłbym - owocnie.

Poddani, Myślicie, że Wasze jadem podlane kłamstewka zwiodą mnie ze słusznie obranej drogi? Myślicie, że nie zauważę, jak pod płaszczykiem braterstwa z rodziną krążowników próbujecie wkraść się w moje łaski? ZDRADA! Wasze kłamliwe piski dzwonią fałszem w mych uszach! W oczy razi mnie brutusową poświatą, krążownik, ale, LINIOWY! Precz sprzed mego oblicza, bo niszczycielami poszczuje! Wasz ukochany, Król krążowników. Nie liniowych.

- no, they shell arcs are not getting better, they even get worse on Neptune. I actually didn't even install range module on Neptune, since it's pointless to fire at 16.5 km range. But it's not an issue, whole point in RN is to work your position and then exploit it. - well, after almost 1000 games in Des Moines, I kinda got used to [edited] arcs. - this is intricate skill of a cruiser captain, it's like some 6th sense, when you just sense a disturbance in the force, and mash those WASD HaX like a mad man - RN is pretty good at 1 v 1 game. You got torps, you got heal, you got smoke if you're super sneaky, you got camo. And you got RoF and guns. This is pretty substanstial, and I disagree with Flamu that they can't stand 1 v 1 with other ships. They can't stand 1 v 1 against Atago, which also got heal. Every other cruiser is absolutely doable. NO, surprisingly, poses big threat, especially if showing only front, but you still can just outheal him. Or torp the [edited]. - That's what I like about those bad boiz. In truth, they excell in close combat. That's also why Flamu is sceptic about them, he prefer long range HE spam. But it is dangerous, and one mistake can end your game. Edin and Fiji are pretty compact ships, so it not hurts them as much, but Neptune is huge, maybe bigger then Des Moines. So if you're caught out of position/exposed, there is a very small chance that you will survive it. - showing broadside to me is not showing broadside to someone else. Although the opponents might not be the brightest, remember is a bit more complicated then "oh but he showed you broadside!" He did, but maybe he angled from incoming BB fire? Or he saw some torps? But most importantly, he didn't know I was there, so I had the element of surprise, and he can't really push me, cause I got torps, and there is team behind me. It's not that simple. - I understand that. For some dudes Zao gameplay is thrilling and superfun, for me it's boring as british dinner Shame the gameplay of THAT line isn't your thing :< I just think smoke should only cover the ship which set it - a cruiser setting smoke can fire and hide in it. A BB sailing into that same smoke, will only hide in it if he don't shoot. If he shoots, he will be spotted. Without massive overhaul of whole gameplay, smoke must remain as it is. Too many ships, tactics and balance is now relying on it.