AnuSuaraj

Oh look, yet another "I want realism that makes my BB great and not the realism that makes it suck. Do something WG peoplez or I quit..." Ok, let's bring in realism. First, let's make Battleships 50% slower and 200% slower turning. Then let's make their guns 50% less accurate with accuracy dropping even lower as the gun barrels overheat. Then, let's make it so that a battleship can always get its hull ruptured by a single torpedo hit. And then, to make it truly 100% REALISTIC, let's also make it so that a single random AI controlled air strike sinks your BB at the start of every battle. You BB whiners pleading for realism do realize that BBs were the most useless class of ships in real life, a class that merely wasted a lot of resources while doing mostly nothing except occasionally getting sunk by u-boats, torpedo boats, and/or planes? Maybe you should, you know, research realism before asking for it. Another thing that you BBabies don't realize that your Battleships are now the strongest class of ship in the game (as well as the easiest to play), and seriously, if you have problems owning cruisers then maybe you should quit.

If I wanted to play the World's crappiest RTS ever...well, then I'd play CVs in WoWS actually...

Mhhm, no. Smoke on DDs might be a "get out of HE spam free card", but on RN cruisers its more of a bushwhacking instrument which means that you should use your low detectability to get into the flanks of the enemy WITHOUT getting spotted, and then pop smoke and commence shelling. And yes, the current smoke meta is silly and has nothing to do with how smoke worked in actuality. I agree that is should be redesigned into something that would give a temporary boost to one's stealth rather than making ships invisible.

I think people are confusing team play with something else entirely. I call it the "let's huddle together like sheep" syndrome. Teamwork doesn't mean that all the ships on the team should just huddle together into one dense ball of fultardedness and decisively "hold" that one cap. One can do teamwork and team play (especially in a DD) while sailing rather detached from the rest of the fleet.

Basically, I now play the only two DDs that can hard carry all by their lonesome - Fletcher and Gearing (AA specced). At the start of the battle I assume: - that all of my BBs are drooling cretins that intend to circle the edge of the map and occasionally fire at something from 20km - that all of my CL (read seals) plan to bum rush the nearest cap and get slaughtered by a single potato in a Bismarck - that all of the enemy team are seasoned pros that are out to get me My aim is to harass enemy CLs, torpedo enemy BBs, and wipe out the enemy DDs when I can catch them unsupported. I'll cap when I can, but I'll also withdraw when the cap is getting rushed. I also like to use my AA specced Fletch/Gearing as a stealth SAM site and screw over enemy CV as much as I can. I don't use RL by the way, because it makes me sick...quite literally.

RL is a completely unnecessary mechanic that only succeeds in making the game feel shallower.

I really don't get what's the issue here...like one of the devs said you just slow down to 12 knots and the smoke envelopes you every time.

So everyone that I know and that has half a brain has now tested the RPF skill. And they all pretty much say what I already knew. Or, factually, that the Radio Positioning Skill strips the game of one of its better mechanics - the finesse of spotting and searching, and of using skill and situational awareness to find and kill concealed ships. It's not that big of a deal. That's what I've heard some say. They're wrong. There's this thing called the law of smaller numbers, or namely, that those numbers eventually add up to one very large number. Or in this case, random crutch mechanics designed to rectify broken parts of the game's general meta (the way smoke and spotting works in the game) eventually add up to a skill-less meta made up of one button actions and passive in game assistance that are misleadingly labeled as "captain skills". It's called lazy developing basically, and I've already seen this ruin one promising title called World of Warplanes. World of Warplanes was easy to play, and hard to master all the way up Beta update 3.1. And then they decided to make it easier to play, with barely anything to master. The idea was to attract less skilled players into the game, but it spectacularly backfired because even causal players get bored of a game that has a skill curve flatter than the Earth had back in the 15th century. And so now they want to mess up ships the same way. And they also say that those who oppose implementation of such skills as RPF are actually the minority. As an educated and intelligent grown up that has already invested lots of time and a fair amount of actual money into the game, all the way from the Alpha Test to now, I say: LET'S FIND OUT. Let's have ourselves a good old fashioned boycott! What's this boycott thing and how do I participate? Well first, you post in this thread saying that you support the cause, and then: - You stop playing the game This means you don't log into the game nor do you play a single battle. - You stop making purchases of WG's in game and premium shop offers You don't buy anything both in game or in the premium shop. I'm just curious to see how many will sign up and if we really are a minority. Maybe this will backfire in my face spectacularly as well, but I would rather try something than go through another WoWP. Anyone interested?

It does show you the direction of the nearest ship, which in most cases will be the unspotted DD that's trying to scout your position, cap a point, or set up a torpedo spread... You still have to spot it yourself though. My biggest beef isn't the impact of the Radio Location skill, but the way that it makes the game feel...oversimplified and shallow.

So, you've decided to leave the Radio Positioning Finding skill as-is? Yes, after listening to the concerns of the players, we have decide to ignore them. But this skill actually kills any kind of stealth gameplay, like IJN DD! No, this skill is actually an equalizer. You see, buddy - you, in IJN DD, will be utterly useless, just like you are now, except this time you'll know exactly WHY you are useless. Also, players who are not "Seasoned" (read: skilled) will now be able to figure out where DDs are too... I believe this skill is an unnecessary buff to the BB class. No, the better BB players will never take this skill since they already know how to counter DDs and will therefore pick more useful skills. So, this skill is actually a buff to the bad BB players also known as primary targets for DDs! So, we're just actually trying to counter Darwin with this skill. Okay, maybe it is not a game breaker, but why introduce it in the first place? Well, you see, we wanted to turn cruisers into more effective DD hunters, so after giving them Radar, Sonar and two planes that fly in opposing directions for six minutes, we figured why not also introduce a skill that simply points to the freaking DD. I mean, why should we even give those pesky DDs a fighting chance at all? Am I right? Also, now, instead of trying to kill BBs, all the cruisers and the non-IJN DDs will be killing each other after they easily dispose of IJN DDs. And this will allow your casual BB player to drool around the edge of the map to his heart content. Even if it is not overpowered in Random Battles, what about Ranked? Yeah, in Ranked the bad players don't last anyway so... And as for competitive play? As for the competitive play, we're hoping that this skill will at least somewhat alleviate our broken smoke meta and make WoWS e-sports at least slightly more interesting than the act of staring directly at a wall for twenty minutes straight.

Dear god. Seriously? What people are saying, and what you are clearly not getting, is the fact that good players in Amagis and North Carolinas will always try to stay out of range of Bismarck secondaries (that's 10,6 km fully skilled out) since they don't want to be melted away by such a skill-less mechanic, which means that if you get the team with aggro Bismarcks and the enemy gets the team with Amagis and Carolinas, then your team gets pushed off the caps. I have seen this happen a million times now. Also, I think it's funny that BB players, the ones who had been calling CV players "clickers" since day one, are now perfectly happy with a skill that literally involves clicking a ship once and then watching that same ship die a slow and painful death. FYI, 105mm guns on the Bismarck fire exclusively HE, and have the highest fire chance of all secondary guns (even the bigger ones), which negates the tanking ability of all BBs that aren't the Bismarck and whose secondaries fire mostly AP at short range. Facts Hanszee...you might want to gent a handle on some before that ST title gets a bad rap...oh wait.

That and the fact that the German BB's have the best shells arcs and best shell speed. So their guns are not actually inaccurate.

Really? Any game mechanic? Well, in that case, let's make BBs indestructible... That should discourage camping completely, no? Must be a good thing right? The fact that you fail to grasp is that Bismarck secondaries in combination with that armor and the apparent lack of a citadel make Bismarck overpowered, which is proven by statistics, you know, NUMBERS, and while such a ship encourages its owner not to camp, it encourages the opposition to do the exact opposite of not camping which is...drum roll...yeah, that's right. One of these days you're going to grow a brain Hans...oh wait.

Yeah, that's the way to fix CVs! Less skill and more click. Jesus, I was wondering why dedicated CV players are such bitter A-holes, but with you clowns popping out statements like this, it is no wonder....

And again, these are not theoretical concerns. I mean, we're all grown men here with working higher brain functions. We're freaking Alpha and Beta Testers, and pretty experienced players of this game that we'd been testing and playing for over a year now. We're not reading from a freaking crystal ball here. Current IJN DD stats can be seen on Warships.today. The fact that this skill is another hit to IJN DDs first and last line of defense - a little thing called stealth, is pretty self evident here. People have tested it on the PT and made videos that clearly confirm what we're saying. And for that Sub_Octavian person to actually go on Reddit and say: "Yeah, we have intentionally made IJN DDs more difficult to play than all the other lines and will continue to do so in the future because we don't like people spamming torps from long range..." And he's saying this while implementing a passive captain skill that "points to the nearest ship." The NEAREST SHIP AKA that good DD player that's actually putting his ship on the line to launch a tighter spread from close range. I mean seriously, that 's like saying "Yeah, we've implemented trenches, barbed wire, and machine gun bunkers so that people would try to do cavalry charges more often." So I call BS on that. And so should anyone else with a working brain. This is not whining. This is common freaking sense. As for people going: "Hellz yeah, I'm going to find a way to abuse that sh*t..." Grow up people, seriously. I mean, some of us want to actually play a game that's, you know, fair and abuse button free.

Whining is the reason behind the implementation of this skill in the first place, or more accurately the whining of certain BeBes about concealed ships that they can't safely "snipe" from 20km. So opposing this skill is actually the exact opposite of whining.

Trolling again Hanszee? How exactly do secondaries that fire HE exclusively up to a distance of 10,6 km encourage tanking...of any battleship that isn't the Bismarck? What happens is that the team with the most Bismarcks tries to push and tank whereas the BBs on the other side made up of NCs and Amagi's try to engage outside secondaries range (read as "run for their lives"). So then the Bismarcks push the non-Bismarcks off of the caps which means that even if they lose on ships they still most likely win on points. German secondaries are broken, and also to have such a skill-less feature in the game that allows players to just rake up damage with no effort is dumb beyond words. Please stop pouring out nonsense.

So I just went to Reddit to see the general stance there, and it seems to be the same as on the Forums. Most people hate that skill. So I then went to the developer Q&A and saw the following question: Player: Hi! I have two questions: Do you plan to buff the most underpreforming IJN DDs? Also the upcoming changes like RDF skill and the removing of stealt fire make them totally unplayable. Let me explain: The following IJN DDs have the worst win rate, below 50% and damage compared to their tier counterparts: Fubuki ( she has worst stats than old Mutsuki and that DD considered bad...); Kagero; Yuugumo and Shimakaze. I made some screenshots: http://imgur.com/a/Zrres IJN DDs really need some fix beause they have very few advantages left because either WG nerf them directly, like torpedo detection range or introduce new mechanics which nerf them indirectly like radar, and now the upcoming Radio Position Finding skill will cripple totally the torpedoboat gamestyle. The only really advantage what left for IJN DDs are stealth and Radio Position Finding skill and the planned stealth fire remove will be the last nail into the coffin. So please consider the followings and don't ignore these issues. Because atm it looks like WG is trying to make IJN DD line more and more useless and uncompetitive on purpose. It is a completely legitimate question since IJN DDs are currently under-performing on all tiers even before RPF implementation. The reply from the developer calling himself Sub_Octavian was astounding: Sub_Octavian: Hello! Currently there are no plans to buff IJN DDs and no fact that they are/will be unplayable. Typically, when IJN DD player has slightly worse avg.stats, it is because of trying to spam torps from longest distance possible. In the early days, that was a viable and effecient option - not anymore. IJN DDs became more skill-demanding and difficult. We realize that, but we are not inclined to change that. There is no purpose in doing any line uncompetitive. That would be very dumb of us. However, making line more demanding is acceptable. I am sorry that I did not provide the answer you probably was looking for, but there it is. Un-freaking-believable! So this developer clearly has no idea how the game that's he's developing functions in actuality, and he even honestly believes that things like nerfing detectability range, adding things like radar, longer range sonar, and now RPF skill actually counters that long range torp spammer type of player rather than creating more of the same. The man is delusional. Naturally the replies poured in and this guy made a valid point: Player: You do realize you contradict yourself here. The reason they are harder to play and perform worse is because they just have worse stats, period. You are saying people need more skill to make up for the nerfs, this is true, but you are ignoring the second part of it: that player skill can be applied to other lines for much better results than playing on nerfed IJN DD's that are terrible. You say IJN DD's are not uncompetitive, but think about this: WG has made the line more skill-demanding, yes, but that is due to the terrible performance of the ship which leads to needing better skill to perform to the same level than on USN DD's. Now to ask you this question: If a player plays on IJN DD's and USN DD's, which will he perform better on? The answer is obvious, he would perform better on the Fletcher/Gearing because they are pretty damn good. If a player is able to perform well in an IJN DD due to having good skill, then he would do even better in a USN one. Which brings us to the point of uncompetitiveness: If you want to maximize your chances of winning, while having the same skill, you will always pick the better ship. So yes, I feel IJN DD's do not have a place right now. With IJN torpedo nerfs, USN torps are way better, and they will by default also win in a close range gun fight due to reload speed and turret traverse. US DD's also have pretty good concealment, and higher fire-starting potential and DPM per minute. IJN doesn't have a place in the meta now, because USN does everything better. The TL/DR version of the reply would be something in the lines of "How the hell can you believe that it is ok to ask players to invest more skill into one line or tree just to get similar results to all the other trees?" This is a perfectly valid and logical point. For a similar amount of skill you should get similar results no matter what line or nation you prefer. This is how all WG games have been balanced thus far but, apparently, not anymore, or rather not in WoWS. In WoWS the IJN DD line has been made apparently "more demanding to play". I assume this has something to do with the fact that the IJN DD line targets battleships almost exclusively. The player on Reddit also mentioned how ever since the US DD buff (which was also technically IJN DD nerf) the US DD tree has been superior in practically all aspects to IJN DDs, especially on the higher tiers, and even in terms of torpedoes. There was no reply to this. I am truly shocked by the lack of logical deductive abilities of the said developer.

Anyway, I removed the date so that people can make suggestions. Just in case anybody cares. Question: With these new Leader type DDs coming into play, does anybody else get the feeling that this whole game in a couple years time will just be a shooting range for Bebes? It'll be like: Leader class DD! It does not have Citadel but it dies quickly to an HE salvo. Hellz yeah! Crusier! Fire AP for citadel hits. Dead in one salvo? Hellz yeah! RPF says Japanese DD nearby. Engage Radar! Activate Secondaries! Dead! Hellz yeah! Wait! Planes incoming! Click on planes! Planes gone! Hellz yeah! Oh, finally! Only Bebes left now! Click them secondaries! Exchange salvoes at 18km. Hellz yeah! Maybe the other classes should be bots? What do you think?

Yeah. I didn't actually expect even 0,1% of the playerbase to actually boycott the game. I just wanted to make it known how much I hate this new "skill" and see if there are others that would go to extreme lengths to freaking kill it. Exploit this skill? Yes, I could do that. I could strap it on my Gearing and rid the world of those pesky Shimakazes. But then again, I'm going to get the Shima too soon enough and then what? Should I play it knowing full well that the vessel's key ability, namely the ability to stealthily torp other ships, is now bordering on useless? People saying that this alleged skill was implemented to provide more tactical options and that it really isn't that big of a deal are WRONG. The skill doesn't add depth to the game. It actually strips tactical depth any way you slice it. People saying that this game is necessary for e-sports or ranked battles are wrong again. What is actually necessary is a fundamental change to the way that spotting and smoke meta work. They've already tried to counter their broken smoke meta with radar, and it didn't freaking work. It just made the game worse. So, allow me to explain, once and for all, the reasons behind the implementation of this skill. There are two kinds of torpedo boat players at the moment. Type 1 is your average to bad DD player that spams widespreads from maximum range, hoping for a random torp hit every once in a while. Such DD players will only occasionally aggrieve drooling BB players such as my halfwit friend simple Jimmy. Type 2 is that rarer type of a good DD player that often goes man mode to the edge of his detectability range and launches tight spreads at straight lining BBabies. Such DD players will often infuriate whiny BB players to the point of madness. So, much like the current RADAR consumable, this RPF skill is nothing more than an attempt to turn Type 2 aggressive DD players into meek Type 1-s that, instead of scoring torpedo kills, will only ever score torpedo hits, and quite rarely so. That's all this skill is. BB players will take this skill, especially the bad ones AKA the ones that good DD players often eliminate, and furthermore, when you add up the fact that proper torpedoing of targets is even now one of the harder things to do in the game, especially in the higher tiers, one can easily conclude that this skill will be the last nail in the coffin of all torpedo boats or rather IJN DDs. I mean, right now you have spotter players flying wide circles around BBs and CLs and spotting ships and torpedoes alike. You have RADAR from 9,6 to 11,6 km range that allows Russian and American CLs to block huge chunks of the map for any DD with a single push of a button and even through terrain (have no freaking idea how that works). You have American, Russian, and German DDs always on the prowl. So there's already an abundance of tactical options to counter concealed torpedo boats. Which means that this skill is in fact intended for the aforementioned purpose of pushing DDs back from the edge of their detectability and to relegate them into second line roles. It's transparent for me. But if the rest of you are fine with it, then I don't really care either. I'll just delete WoWS like I did WoWP, and then go back to tanks - a game that with all it's faults has always maintained that developer standpoint of "...if you have skill, you will own." That's a direct quote from a World of Tanks developer by the way. I think WoWS developer quote at the moment would be something in the lines of: "Oh, you have skill? Oh, that's too bad because you're about to get owned by my one button crutch mechanic biyatch..." And they think they will increase the player base by flattening the skill curve, when they have direct experience that this is never the case. Flat skill curve equals no feeling of player's progression which then equals boredom which then equals dying of the player base. And these people just keep looking at statistics, trying to contrive a better way to get some short term profits when they should be focusing on making the game better which automatically makes it more profitable, not just short term but in the long run as well. See World of Warcraft and League of Legends for clarification. As for the boycott, yeah, I'm not an idiot. I had no illusion that it would work, I just wanted to dish out some extremism hoping it would at least slightly nudge the players into action. I knew it was a far stretch though.

Radio Silence skill to counter Radio Positioning. Radio Positioning to counter broken skill meta. Insert any random one click mechanic to counter whatever broken meta. Or maybe you could start investing your time into actually working on the game play aspects of the game instead of trying to tie off the bleeding with captain skills?

Oh well, in that case, yeah, by all means, fix the bug. And then remove smoke from all cruisers and nerf Belfast DPM by 30%...

So first you open with that... And you do some stats research/trolling like so: Well, I did some research too: https://eu.warships.today/vehicles If you filter CAs and tier 6 you will see that, if we don't count the premium stuff, Leander actually is stats-wise the best cruiser on the tier. So I guess we are not the ones using drugs after all. Also, if you use that same stats source to look at tier 7,8,9 and 10 CAs you will see RN cruisers top the chart every freaking time, so a "problem" with British cruisers exists only in the minds of British players me thinks... Minotaur is at this point the most broken thing in the game... Just FYI..

Loving this thread. Guy buys overpowered pay2winnium on tier 7 and then comes to the Forum to complain about its one and only weakness - specifically the fact that it doesn't have DD quality smoke. I expect his next thread will be something in the lines of: "Why Belfast not haz Gearing quality torps too?" or maybe: "Sure, Belfast DPM is batshit crazy but why is the gun caliber so low?" FYI, one of the fucktarded skills that we're getting in the next patch is called "Fog for the fog god" with which one can have more smoke because reasons. Belfast "problem" solved. Good luck.

US DDs are balanced, not OP. Japanese DDs are underpowered. With the next patch, US DDs will become a bit stronger whereas Japanese DDs will become unplayable. That is all.