FukushuNL

I find talk about toxicity coming from one who plays a class that can attack from immunity a very hypocritical notion. Every other class has to risk their hull when they want to attack ships from the other team and their general location can be tracked down by knowing the distance and angle of attack. Even destroyers and the new Deep Sea crap can be tracked that way. (I can also give numerous facts why DDs and even Sub lean way closer to other classes than the godhood that are CVs, just ask) CVs could just was well be playing without a hull if you got a CV player with at least a modicum of sense to park his hull out of danger. The fact that 99% AA also could just as well be broken out of the game for all the good it does. The moment other classes can shoot their weapons without being seen on the map, their armament has unlimited flight time, they can manipulate their shells/torps so that they can change their aim when it flies 2 km from their target and they can spot their enemies with their shells/torps, when a couple or all of these points are met, THEN CV captains can take words like toxicity in their mouths when describing people that play the other classes. As long as CV players don't understand these totally absurd advantages the class has compared to their opponents and how toxic it is for the game in total that such a class exists (this fastpased, unlimited range, no risk class should not be in a slow pace game that is about positioning, concealment, risk/reward, tactics and predicting enemy movement while attacking), they should not tell other people they are toxic. I love these old naval war machines, I love the slow gameplay and the overall balance between the original 3 classes and I wholeheartedly believe that the CV class can be put in line with the other classes, making it fun to play with and against (giving planes limited range would solve the riskless gameplay while keeping the class unique with its own pros and cons). That is why I still stalk the forums, still hoping WG will see the light and understand you can have a fun class AND make lots of money with it. But they don't. They only want CVs to be fun for those that play them and love riskless gameplay (I don't even like to play the current version, as it is boring sending unlimited planes at enemies without a single care of retribution). And that is the single reason I stopped playing this now scewed pvp game. And I know things won't change and should stop coming here, but there is no other game that can scratch my warship itch as this one, if just CVs would be fun to play (against), not this riskless godmode crap. Anyways, sorry, a CV player calling another player toxic was just clueless and triggered me to log in and reply. The rant came afterwards xD

Hey, am in the same boat as you :) But it indeed does seem the same. Was checking the blog with some changes to anti air through alternate mode of airstrike planes, so I came and checked the forums. Seems like it's still the same game with the same aweful developers, same aweful fun destroying games including lots of CVs and Subs and still the same people defending WG and CVs. We can easily stay away from this game for another decenia and nothing will be changed :) Sad indeed. See ya around, @Alchemist79! :D

I lately play almost exclusively low tier. I always loved the slow and simplicity of low tier and it only got more fun after pushing CVs in higher tiers.

I love doing low tier stuff, got many faves in those ranges, so I most of the time ignore early access silver stuff until the line is officially in the game.

For me, it's long rang BBs. I can't do well in ships like Yamato. If we are talking T10, that is.I don't have that much luck with sniping and those BBs are not made for mid to close combat. Minotaur and Dmitri, etc or Daring, Kaba, feel way better. But then I don't really like T10. I like everything up to T8 better.

Nah, the higher the tier the extremer the gimmicks get. I think balance is hard to find with all the ranges and speeds running rampant. On topic: I love that T5 is in Ranked. Things go a bit slower, gimmicks aren't that absurd yet. Better maps too, except for Straights, imo.

So when I started off I was as good at the game as I am now? People don't learn through experience? That is the exact deffinition of the word "experience". Getting better at something through repetition :) And you say such a thing does not exist :)

Indeed, which is a current problem. But if you force them to play 30 matches per tier, then with a bit of luck they get some playing experience under their belt. Maybe 5 matches on T1, 10 on T2, 15 on T3, 20 on T4 and, 25 on T5. And to make sure they don't afk, they have to get at least a doable amount of base XP for the battle to count.

I dunno about the KotS stuff, but the other questions are easily answerd in one word: money. CVs and certainly Subs are the new classes that can make them lots of money selling premium versions, putting them in Dockyards, etc. And enough people love to play these broken classes over the harder to play Surface ships. And people want to play their ships, otherwise they won't buy them. So WG will never lock them out of the most played battle style that is Random. That would also split up the players queueing for randoms, Although I think still 90% of the people will be in the same queue: the one without CVs and Subs). But yeah, subs and CVs sell, so they won't lock them out.

1. Probably not, as they have to work through the silver ship line first to get to, say, a silver T10. During the 300 matches in a certain ship type, I hope they will get a sliver of knowledge about how the class works and how the gameplay evolved through the tiers. And if then the stats are the same, then there is no helping them. This all with the assumption that the person in the OP has bought him/herself high lvl ships without going through the proper learning traject. So at least with my idea you force these people to play through all tiers up to the tier they bought the premium. Edit: banning them from PVP is not a good idea. they have to get thought how pvp is played step by step. The core "play through a silver line from T1 to T10"as it always has been is perfect for this, but the problem is ppl have options to skip that grind, either through FXP, buying ships with real money, etc, etc. Plus the grind has been lessened a few years back.

Well, useful and useless CVs are both equally strong at making the experience less than it should be for the rest of the players in both teams (with CVs in current state). I dunno if it is defending the WG monetisation that he does more than facing reality of WG rather screwing us over instead of those that want to throw money at WG. I would love if T10 would be so expensive to play that you have to play mid-tier to cover the costs. Might help with people learning how to play their class and it makes T10 more special again. But that will not happen as WG can sell high tier ships for way more money (something they promised they would never do, just like adding Subs), direct or indirect (via early access/dockyard EA, etc). So WG wants you to play lots of T8-10.

Probably the only way to counter this a bit is if Premiums ships are locked from playing until you have had like 20-30 matches in a silver ship of the same class and tier and every tier below it. Doesn't even have to be the same nationality. You can buy the ship, but you will have to put in the effort to unlock playing with it. Then you force ppl to put in enough game time to get to grips with the class.

Ranked is still including CVs and subs, right?

Haven't played for almost a year. If the numbers go down, that would be nice, as WG only cares about numbers. But I doubt that will be happening. But I read Malta is out and OP as any other CV, so I can stay away from this game for a way longer time, as WG still doesn't seem to want to balance the game.

CVs and Subs just don't fit in the game as it is. Both classes play by a totally different ruleset than the surface ships. The original triforce of Cruisers, DDs and BBs work well because of the slight differences between classes. But mostly they play by the same rules: slow gameplay, surface based, with strengths and weaknesses based on armor, hp, concealment, relative speed differences, agility and RNG, while having to risk something to get a reward. CVs shite all over this by going 10 times faster than the fastest DD, not caring about obstructions, not caring about positioning, having spotting powers that far outdoes the spotting skill of the fastest, most stealthy DDs, can strike everywhere on the map within a minute and does this all from impunity. CV gameplay is dropping your ship in the corner of the map, taking potshots at enemies, only worrying that your planes get shot out of the sky, which is not much of a worry. Real risk involved? 0% Subs also play a totally different game than the surface ships. They operate in a dimension almost untouchable by the other classes while they themselves can meddle with the surface ships. The only time they risk something is when they screw up and make a mistake not watching their oxygen at a bad moment. Contrary to these classes, surface ships are super slow, have thus to stick to one side of the map, have to angle, can only attack in a straight line from where they are at that moment, have to aim while hoping the enemy will be at the point they are aiming at 10-20 seconds later, have to deal with RNG, obstacles, concealment, etc while fighting other surface ships, putting their own hull on the line every time they fire or position themself. And then they have to compete with these other classes that don't play by the same rules, have to take almost non to no risk at all and have skills that far exceed their own. And then some people and WG don't understand why so many people don't want CVs and Subs in the game.

Most likely. While CVs can be sold and the more powerful they are, the more people will play them. I do linger on a sliver of hope someone at WG balance team does listen to community team members like @Seraphice, so they at least take some action in the near future to take on the CV spotting problems.

I don't expect insta changes :) I don't expect anything at all. But I would jump a litteral hole in the air of joy when I would read that "CV spotting will be looked at again, as current spotting power of CVs gives the CV's team too much power when used right, which doesn't work in a Random environment. CV spotting is also detrimental to people's will to push as putting yourself in the open while the whole enemy team can attack you during current CV spotting is akin to a litteral execution. To counter these problems, we will be testing minimap spotting. This will still let CV spotting help the team to give the location, while on the other hand not give the whole team the ability to nuke the spotted enemy into oblivion from behind cover." If only the devs would give a sign that they recognise how powerful current CV spotting is and how detrimental is to the tactical and gameplay fun of surface ships. Then this would be awesome. Also, @Seraphice, my humble thanks.

Go, go, go, Sera!!! You go and get them to work on that idea! If the enemy only gets spotted on the friendly mini maps, then for me the biggest issue that also keeps me from playing has been taken care of. And that is indirect damage due to spotting of CVs. As long as CVs can notify their teammates of enemy positions, but need a ship to actually spot them, that is fine for me. The most stupid thing for me is that CVs don't need to put anything off value on the line to be able to spot anything. Plus with the current AA and plane HP, planes are harder to get rid of than cruisers or DDs. So please, PLEASE, if you can try to make a case at HQ for that idea, with putting extra notions on the power of CV spotting, how unfair it is towards all the other classes and the amount of gameplay that unlocks again after the coming of CVs locked them (like the uselessness of concealment, flanking tactics that WG themselves tried to make a gimmick for ships like the french lines, etc). Serious, if you can stop the CVs acting like drones and only give them minimap spotting, that would make such a difference for Surface ships, while taking only a little away from CVs. But the amount of fun, tactical actions and will definitely help with people try to push again for caps. The change would take almost nothing away form CVs, while pouring in so much usefulness for a whole lot of other classes/ships. Please, Sera.

I like to come and see CV players telling everybody "You don't play (much) CV, you don't know what you are talking about", like a football player telling the people at home they don't know anything about football while the player is clearly dropkicking opposite players without even touching the ball and stopping the ball with their hands. Or telling people that don't drive a car that they don't know anything about driving a car, while these "socalled expert" driver clearly driving on the wrong side of the road, yelling at people that do drive in the right direction to (funnily enough) "Just dodge, kek, learn to drive!". And WG goes "Dropkicking other players and stopping the ball with you hands is the perfect balance we are looking for" or "Driving on the opposite side of the road is perfectly legal and is just as we tried to balance it.".

Not playing anymore. Stuck in limbo. WG introduced me to a great many ships, teaching me about their history etc, made me fall in love with them all. Then WG shoved us all a hard one (some who seem to like that, some don't care) and kept on shoving periodically. Read the blog today about the Submarine questions. What I read said "we need to shove submarines up yours, whether you want or not. We don't care about an honest fight against subs, as long as subs can fight against other classes as the more people have a positive experience fighting with subs, the more will play them and we can silence people that are against subs implementation. To that point we even introduced that subs can't see eachother underwater as that inconvenienced the sub. We can't have anything incovenience our newest ship class, lest it be detrimental to the new class' popularity. And Surface Classes? Their newishness is gone and we don't really care about them being balanced anymore." It was the same story with CVs. These previous "new toys" of WG shat over any Surface Ship balance we had before they were launched and are infinitely more powerful in an active and passive way than any Surface Ship. Still WG will not give us any means to fight CVs in a Surface ship except "try to dodge", as anything with AA has been nerfed to the ground together with the complete Concealment stat and the flanking gameplay element. WoWs used to be a slow paced game where the minute differences in speed between classes and ships were build on balance between their firepower, range and defences. You know what f*cked that up, just like IRL F'ed up the usefulness of any WW1/2 ship? Aircraft carriers. Completely nullified the usefulness of battleships and tore a new one in both of the biggest and most powerful battleships humanity had laid their eyes on. Yamato and Musashi had 0 chance against the CV attacks. For all their might, useless pieces of floating pinatas. Since then the only thing US BBs were good for were AA screens and CV escorts. You seen the ingame states of Montana and Iowa's AA? These super speeds flying abominations should not be a part of this otherwise slow game. It's like putting F1 cars in a Renault Megane Cup race. And the amount of spotting CVs can do in a game where 1km Concealment could make or break a ship's potential.... It's as much cheating as using a drone in a paintball game. I remember this game being a loveletter to pre-dreadnought, WW1 and WW2 era naval combat vehicles, with developers that respected chess level pvp balance. They once made a 1 april joke that Yamato got its IRL range back of 46 kilometer and thus being able to fire into other games. They didn't give Yamato her original range as that would F up the balance, even though they gave her stats that showed her place in history as the biggest guns ever seen in naval combat. Now we got super and subsonic drones flying around and an equivalent to WoW's rogue, both playing their own game, irrelevant of what the actions of Surface ships out of the original game are. No counterplay, no angling, half of your stats useless, classes ignoring most of the rules all of the surface ships are limited by, there is only "just dodge".

And @Juuzaam I don't care that a spotting run is called a spotting run, and it takes slightly more than a minute. It's the capability of a CV to be able to spot everything on the map in record time. @L0VE_and_PE4CE It is also not an issue whether or not the people in your team react to your spotting. Again, it is the capability of the CV to be able to spot where and when it can. You keep on pointing out that the CV's personal dmg is so important and WG also seemingly think that it's the only important thing, but getting deleted by the whole of the enemy team because of CV spotting is by far worse than having a one on one with a CV. But if you also don't care about CV spotting, you wouldn't mind CV spotting capabilities taken out of the game? I mean, it would not take away from CV personal dmg and spotting xp is not that much anyways, so that could be incorporated in other ways.

No, because they are breaking many game mechanics that are inherrent to old ship lines/classes and do not play by the same rules the core game design is based upon. They belong in a different game or need to be heavily adjusted.

You are forgetting the strongest point of a CV, the indirect dmg they do, simply by spotting. That is imo the worst thing about a CV. They can map out the opposing team in less then a minute and can permaspot enemy ships for their own teammembers to nuke into oblivion. The enemy teammembers don't even have to show themselves and thus can fire from impunity. People always compare what a CV can do dmg wise vs other ships, but that is far from the strongest aspect of a CV. What a CV can do for his team is way more OP.

Yeah, their art department is excellent. It's such a shame a number of the other departments are so lackluster.

Well, I haven't been playing for this whole year at least. I yearh for it, but I refuse to install the game as long as CVs are what they are. That keeps me away from the other WG crap too. The reason I am still coming back to the forums/yearn to play the game is because the old WoWs, the one that celebrated old naval warmachines made me fall in love with these awesome machines and teached me about the histort of these machines. There is no other game that is like a playable catalogue of WW1/2 naval warmachines with these quality models. Most of the core gameplay is also one of a kind and very, very enjoyable. The game is just Fed up by these new classes. Sadly the rest of your text tells the same useless "bend over and take it" nonsense as the OP, looking down on people that try to make a difference and some misuse of the whole Chad/Karen thing because those are now popular memes. I'm fine with you thinking the game is in a state you like, but do not try to shut up other people that, with sound logic and fact, try to reason with WG to change their game for the better. Even if it might look futile.