FukushuNL

Good idea to enforce the lemming train. Also a nice way to throw flanking tactics out of the window. And dissuading from dds going to spot things and try to cap points is a heathy thing for the game. And let the BB set the pace of the game. All so everyone can enjoy the AA bubble.

Seriously!?!?!? How can you be at a disadvantage when your ship is safely near the border, while you are spotting the DD for the enemy team? The DD has to go through all your teammates to be able to do the same!! I can not understand how blind CV players are not to recognise the difference! "But my planes..." are just advanced shells, with unlimited airtime and spotting capability, that can drop a huge variety of weaponry from behind a mountain towards another ship behind another mountain being directed by yourself with unlimited range. They even regenerate!! At a disadvantage..../facepalm

Who needs to spot for 20+km range shots? If those ships don't have spotting anymore, they naturally have to move forward. Perfect! Campers/island huggers will get punished by not winning the game if nobody spots for them. Perfect! On CVs, no AA support needed. Perfect! DDs have never been this big a problem as CVs are. Yes, they got stealth, but they can only move 40-50 knots at most, can't fire from every angle, have to compete with hydro/radar/spotting planes, have to be in range, have to compete with other DDs, give their general positiom away when shooting/torping, have to watch their concealment and are directly vulnerable when countered. CVs don't care about any of that.

No reason to. BBs already have sigma, reload speed, dispersion, aiming at distance, slow movement, positioning and line of sight to deal with.

I know a way to make CVs way less overpowered: give their planes a max range of 15 kilometers. -Every other ship has something that can give away their position in a general angle and range. -This way CVs can't be played "outside the playing field" -Yes they have to get closer than many other ships, but they can "Fire" from stealth.

The point is: what is the counter agains CV? What is the counter of a chesspiece that can sit at the end of a chessboard and can hit your pieces from all sides without any risk of you being able to counterattack? It's like you swimming in a big lake while somebody on the edge of the lake has near unlimited drones that fly over you to attack you with lead balls. AA is useless, certainly when you get downtiered. @YabbaCoe What is WG's official stance on what the fun is in CV counterplay? We all seen what CV players should find fun about playing CV, but in all honesty, what fun is there to be gotten with constantly getting harassed by planes where it doesn't matter what button you use or how you use the map or angle, they will get you anyways? Is there anything tactical against fighting against a "ship" that can be on the other side of the map within a minute, has no line of sight, has no care of obstacles and can fire from any angle it desires, 8/10 times without even losing a squadron? Please, take a ship, pretend as if you have taken down a flank and you are sailing to the other side of the map to help your friends. Now let someone else take a CV and try and take you down. You can't angle like you normally do for incoming fire, nor can you turn into an incoming torpedo as planes are way too fast. You also cannot hide behind mountains because planes can attack from every angle in an instant and fly over mountains. AA is near useless. So you are sitting there trying to turn to avoid bombs, torps and rockets, but your ship is slow and cumbersome and the planes are fast and agile. You get hit from everywhere and what can you do to counter? Nothing. Now you are trying to flank a group of enemies from their side as a tactical gameplay move, but the CV, that can be all over the map in an instant, sees you. Gone flanking tactic, hello continuous CV harasment. You can't angle like you normally do for incoming fire, nor can you turn into an incoming torpedo as planes are way too fast. You also cannot hide behind mountains because planes can attack from every angle in an instant and fly over mountains. AA is near useless. So you are sitting there trying to turn to avoid bombs, torps and rockets, but your ship is slow and cumbersome and the planes are fast and agile. You get hit from everywhere and what can you do to counter? Nothing. Or maybe you hide behind a mountain as th otherside has outgunned you, trying to find a way out of this mess so you can regroup. But no, the CV knows where you are and gives zero FFs about mountains, attack angles and line of sight. You can't angle like you normally do for incoming fire, nor can you turn into an incoming torpedo as planes are way too fast. You also cannot hide behind mountains because planes can attack from every angle in an instant and fly over mountains. AA is near useless. So you are sitting there trying to turn to avoid bombs, torps and rockets, but your ship is slow and cumbersome and the planes are fast and agile. You get hit from everywhere and what can you do to counter? Nothing. So tell me, what is WG's official standpoint on the fun of countering CVs? You got all these parameters that normally plays a big role in ship-vs-ship combat (MB range, sigma, dispersion, concealment, line of sight, ship speed, turning rate,etc, etc) which BBs, DDs and Cruisers all have to abide by, even Subs. And then you got this ship that has no "MB range limit", is 5x as fast as the fastest DD, can shoot many kinds of weapons from it's main battery that can be re-aimed when virtually on the target, can thus shoot around corners, has an unlimited spotting range and can do all this without having to be anywhere near the enemy. At least a sub has to get in close to do some damage and is fast nor agile. So if CVs just kick everything surface ships have to abide by (MB range, sigma, dispersion, concealment, line of sight, ship speed, turning rate,etc, etc), out of the window, should CVs be in the game? Or maybe should they be made for a different mode?

This is not about WG not listening, though you are completely right that they don't. This is about community members playing CV and ignoring what it does to the fun of other people playing the game. WG enables people playing CVs, but it's the CV players themselves that consciously pick a class that they know (certainly forum members here) is hated on by the majority of the community. It's like guns in America. the government enables people, but it's the people that shoot other people with those guns. But it's ok. People that play CV are just like the rest of the world that doesn't care about other people, only about what they themselves want. Hey, WG decides its good for the game to have these people sitting on the edge of the map, without any risk to themselves, throwing airplanes at other people that have virtually no counterplay against them and just trickle them down (most of the time. At the higher tiers CVs can 1 shot and crosstorp). Then people don't have to think for themselves if CVs are good for the game or not. I think we should play a game with all CV player and bind their arms and feat so they can only wiggle around. Then we throw them all in a room and one of us has to start at one point of the room, kick a CV player, then run back to the corner while the CV players wiggle around. They only get the ability to spit at us. Cause that is exactly what happens in game. Normal surface ships wiggle around while CV players fly all over the map kicking others with no risk of getting kicked back and only can spit at them with useless AA.

I really, really, reaaly, REALLY hope WG pushes through this "Radio" idea. I personally am totally for not being able to spot at all, but my biggest gripe with CVs is them being able to keep surface ships spotted for the rest of the enemy team to fire at them. CVs now are a serious blow to the usability of tye concealment stat and concealment gameplay, which is already being harmed by the Radar Meta. In my core, I don't want to hate on CVs and those that play them, but the power of their spotting capabilities without any risk involved is harrassing and gamebreaking. Implementing the Radio idea will be a serious step to balancing CV impact on the game in a good way, be a serious buff to concealment gameplay and be a huge overall improvement to gameplay enjoyment. As an added suggestion: if you implement the spotting cooldown, don't make it map wide. At least let it fall in line with radar and give it a 10-12 km radius from the point of the spotting plane from where ships can see it in.

I am of more or less the same mind. Subs are slow, don't have much power in changing the course of the match and most of the time I see them get killed earlier rather than later during a match. Their only forte is that they can move unseen during a match, but that only makes them even less impactful during a match. DDs are way more of a threat to the enemy team. They got way more offensive power, far greater movement and positioning potential, way more tools to help the friendly team and be a nuiscense to the enemy team and overall a more impactful ship. The only thing they lack vs a sub is not going completely invisible. Nah, when I see CVs in my match I damn them to hell and back. If I see subs in a match, I don't give it a second thought

Nah, we still got CVs in the game, which are way more intrusive and gamebreaking.

You are comparing RL marine warfare to this arcade game where in the former there was no thing called balance (apart from maybe the treaties that were half ignored. This is a game, an arcade game, where there should be something called balance, which there isn't because of CVs. Those things were OP IRL and are OP in the game. If you say they are integral to the game because of IRL, many ships can be taken out of the game because they are obselete, while the rest can function as AA screen for the CVs like IRL. Or did you forget what happened to Yamato? She never had even seen Iowa in battle because of CVs. So let's make this game World of CVs as that is how it was IRL in those days.

You word it perfectly, sir. Cause and effect. You throw a stone through a window, the window breaks. I understand there are people that will do something no matter how much others they hurt, like people that play a class most people hate to have ingame, or a company that puts classes of ships in a ship game that most people hate to have in said game, but persevere non the less. What I don't understand is why they don't acknowledge the fact and burdening the obvious results, just like you do.

I understand WG will never do away with CVs because of the money gone into the project and the money that comes in from people buying the Premium CVs. But spotting is getting out of hand. And it's mainly due to CVs and the amount of map they can survey in a short while. The game started off with the concealment stat being a very important stat. If you knew the concealment of the enemy and that of yourself, you could play with that info to get the upperhand in skirmishes with opponents. Leaving the rts CVs out of the story for now, we then got introduced to the Radar Meta. First, only one cruiser line had radar, then more and more lines and ship types got access to the gimmick which was already deterring DDs from doing one of their main duties: capping. Then we got CVs back into the game, which made spotting an effortless task. Without bringing your ship in danger, you can be everywhere in no time, perma-spot ships and attack them from every angle. Without any effort. Now we got Subs to "complete te circle". Already having very low concealment, they can become almost invisible and still able to spot, being able to reposition in stealth. All these things together makes concealment almost redundant and brought me more times than I wanted to in a position that I got caught by planes, tried to get away but got radared and tried to get away from that but spotted by a sub. And most of the time I got in a spot-lock because planes are so darn effortless to use as a spotting mechanic. Radar ships can be dealt with in a calculated way. You know what ships can carry radar, you try to aquisition their whereabouts and act accordingly. Radar spots can only move as fast as the ships that carry them can reposition and there is a timer and cooldown on them to stop them from being abused. Subs are super slow and super fragile. Yes, they can be a b*tch to fight against, but the moment you know its position, a sub is most of the time done for I know from experience. That is purely because of how slow it is, making it near impossible to escape and to reposition. This makes enemy subs during one match only a spotting problem for one part of the map. But planes, considering the CV captain has more than 1 braincell, will be able to spot anything anywhere on the map withing half a minute. On top of that, having the more unicum CV captain on your side, shifts the balance of the battle super hard towards your side. That is why, if CVs aren't going away, I suggest to seriously nerf CV's usefulness during a match by taking away its standard spotting ability. Most, if not all of the CV's experience comes from its own damage anyways, not taking away much from its experience making potential. This way, concealment and using cover to play the objective becomes once again more important and spotting once again become more of an art, considering radar, low concealment opponents and maybe subs when taking a cap, without having the assurance that when you take a cap, you will have a plane spotting you 24/7 for the rest of the enemy team to shoot at. AA still matters as much as it does now (not that much), attack planes will be used for the intended purpose (defending ships from enemy CV attacks instead of a spotting device), CVs will be less hated and will be waaaaaaaay less of an influence in battle. It will be solely the CV vs the ship it is attacking instead of the CV and everything that has enough range. CVs will still becmore than effective enough to be a nuiscence during matches. Just objectively think about how much more fun the matches with CV will become for BBs, DDs and Cruisers when CVs can't spot for the rest of the enemy team.

It also hits me where it hurts most that because of my unreasonal failure, you had no option but to write the words you did, forced by social norms and values, and on top of that still could find the kindness to post the link. Instead of reacting with "Ah, thanks for showing me, had indeed missed that." to a reply of my OP like "They had someting about that in a blog post. I'll link it down here: https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/250" I now will have to kill myself as facing the shame of missing that post will be unbearable not only by me, but also my future generations. Thank you for humbly but clearly showing me the error of my way. My death will make sure I will never darken any of your days again.

CVs are still there and are way worse, so if you have uninstalled, I would stay away forever, as that is how long CV will stay.

I don't understand people that play CV and understand the general sentiment towards seeing the class ingame. To visualize, gentlemen CV captains: finding a CV in your match is like your neighbour walks up to your front door, unzips his pants and drops a warm one on your porch. Yes, it is possible to do so, you might find it totally normal to do so but it is generally not done, nobody really likes it and people's day is ruined instantly. Now you can "not care" about it, which is your good right, but then don't come crying that karma (ingame or IRL) catches up with you. You play CV, you choose to sh*t all over everyone's fun game experience, you get negative karma. Please at least understand the logic of sentiment, action and reaction. That you play CV, that is your choice, but please ackowledge the fact that when you don't care about others' enjoyment, they won't give a flying (pun intended) F about how you feel. CVs are only fun up to a maximum of 4 players per match (the CV players themselves). For other people the experience of CVs in their game ranges between "just gotta endure and hope for the best" and "keyboard through screen". Just one more time, so you must be able to get it, if you are one that loves to take a boombox to the library, walk with shoes in a mosque, puts up satan marks all over the church walls, etc, be an *ss, but please have the sense to understand your actions will bring negative reactions from the community. Or can't you really not get it in that nobody loves CVs?

WG won't change, but that's ok, cause their customers won't either. Everyone here can discard the ship, but people will still buy it because they need it for their collection. If PR can be a hit in the coin office, this ship can too. And it will be.

It was just a friendly jest. I don't know how you read it, but as I did it was just a casual wink to fellow community members in response to another casual question about something people can't be specific about. Sera really didn't have to write a super formal answer. Her response was more than adequate ;)

And why not? Keeps the old content crowded instead of everybody hanging around end game content.

I like the RB. I think it's a good way to get old content be used and getting a reward even incentivizes it more. I like resetting some old lines I love to play the low/mid/upper tier of while some of the newer lines aren't to my liking. But what is even more fun than the RB are posts like this that "know" exactly how other people think about a topic and make sure to note that "fact" into the topic title, while pushing it home through the whole Original Post. The best part is when, strangely, the replies seem to be telling quite the opposite story. I'll get back to lvling my reset lines. I got Trento and Dmitri Donskoi I got to get to TX. Great fun :D

Coal: fine with that. I will earn it bit by bit. Steel: not a ranked person amd my "friends" clan is not very active to get enough members for CB, so rather not. RB: I think the research bureau is a fun way to replay old content while getting rewarded for it. So RB tokens would be fine too.

You are missing out on some tough BBs then, just saying :) I like them a lot because they seem to be the only BBs nowadays that can really push. Think Bismarck with a few tricks up their sleaves. Their agility , speed and smoke let them take key spots and their armor makes it that they are hard to remove from that spot. I agree their guns are a bit wonky, but when you close the distance, which is kind of the thing of these ships, things are much easier to hit. The SAP on this line is not as miraculous as on their CAs, but still works ok. The secondaries are long range and not that bad either. If you go for the big, solid dps numbers, then the RM is not the best, but if you like to be a playmaker and love to take your BB from the back line to where tge action is, the Ita BBs give you the confidence and tools to do so. I am on Lepanto now and very much enjoyed Veneto. The T7 was a bit of a worse Gneis imo.

I own Anchorage and even though she is not the best cruiser around, I love to sail her around because she is very aesteticly pleasing imo. I think Buffalo and Cleveland do too. But what do the captains that sail US cruisers think of the following T8 US cruisers: Wichetta, Rochester, Congress, Anchorage, Tulsa. And could one better stick with the Silver line: Baltimore and Seattle? (Leaving Des Moine and Alaska out of the discussion as I know both of them well enough).

Not looking at the original name, "felt" good when writing it. Apologies when you are from WichITA :) Thanks for your 2c.

Cheers, mates. You confirm my thoughts that if you want a T8 American cruiser, the Silver one is already a good pick. It got the guns, it got the tools, it only missing the premium bonuses. For a line that is know for the superheavy AP and radar, the premiums just don't seem to cut it. Wichitta loses the superheavy, Anchorage loses that too + much lower dpm. If you want to smoke, better go for the Brittish, although Rochester has good dpm and above avarage AA but can't spot. Then Tulsa, which is more like Des Moines. So if I just go for Baltimore and then for Des Moine, I'm solid.