FukushuNL

It is pointless indeed. The moment I try to play the game as intended, I get stalked by the enemy CV and nuked by the enemy team, which is pointless. But I understand how you feel.

I really want to play this game again, but WG makes it so easy to hold me back even through how much I want to play. I know exactly what will happen if I do: "I start up a mid/high tier game, I will be spotted by planes instantly, 2 CVs and 3 subs will F up my enthousiasm, the enemy team will camp in the back, I will be sunk without any chance on a decent push and I will directly uninstall out of pure disapointment of why WG doesn't care that CVs/Subs neither have ways to be counterplayed nor have any risk/reward gameplay attached to them. It has so much potential to be a game where every class takes skill and is fun to be played with and against, with real risks for all classes.

So the meta of "ships that can see/hit you and you can't see/hit them back" is not the meta right now with 2 CVs, 3 subs and god knows how many hybrids hanging around in each match? Is the dev team ever going to make the game fun for BBs, Cruisers and a number of DDs, or is Risk/Reward gameplay not on the table anymore with everyone shooting others out of pure imperviousness hiding underwater and in the back of the map? Or do you think the imperviousness of being counterattacked that CVs/Subs are enjoying is fun and engaging gameplay for those that play surfaceships that do have to get in range of their targets and get spotted when firing, having to deal with 10km+ range, RNG, keeping manouvers of their target in mind for the nexts 10 seconds? Edit: I know DDs had the upperhand and also mainly could attack from stealth before the CV rework, but at least that took some skill as repositioning with a DD is not as fast as with a CV, torpedoing from range at least takes some skill to hit and gives away the general position of the DD, making it even harder for the DD to sink their target. And at least DDs were gambling with their hulls on tge edge of concealment. CVs are just a joke compared to when DDs played the invisibility game.

Sounds like camping is the only viable option to play the game when most of the ships can hit you, but you can't hit them back.

I share your feelings. Because of my love for battleships (still have to go on a tour of all the Iowa's, Massa and NC in the US) and how this game was before the rework, most notably when CVs were gone as they got reworked, I really want to play this game, see all the cool ships in action. But WG and the crowd that says "this game is fine", "CVs are balanced" and "just dodge", knowing that WG will do nothing to balance the game, but instead want to print more money through ships as everyone buys them regardless, keep me from playing this game. The sad thing is that there is no game that celebrates Dreadnought, WW1 and WW2 naval warships as WoWs does. I have thought of maybe just playing the first 3/4 tiers, but many of the legendary ships and fun gamepla is locked behind people that love the OPness of current CVs, uselessness of most of the stats and more of the cluelessness that is the current meta. And WG rather wants to cater to that crowd than balance the game as CVs can be programmed to fall in line with the rest of the classes, but why bother when you can just say "we tried things, and it didn't work", no evidence and be done with it. The World of CVs crowd has won. And WG will not give those that don't want that unbalanced sh*t in their game a version of the game (or even a mode) where CVs aren't allowed in, because they know most people will instantly play that version/mode, leaving the CVs behind.

Playerbase doesn't seem to agree with you :)

Well, of cource, logical. WG doesn't care in any way about the game. Classes/game mechanics ruining the game? WG doesn't care. Why should WG care if people are sabotaging their game. Everyone will keep on playing and paying either way. That why this OP is just as useless as people using the forum to utter their frustration WG (and by extend their player base) is destroying the fun they have in the game. IT all doesn't matter. Nobody cares. WG, players, nobody. WG creates this status quo, players keep it solidified.

Let's all adapt and dodge, then everything will be fine xD The game is getting better and better :D I love situations where a slow surface ship get absolutely g4ngb4nged by a CV and sub at the same time :) Do people really all just run back to the spawn? I would if I just see this vid xD

Genuine interest, not bashing: what do people see as actual threats and weaknesses of CVs. DDs overal have low HP, have to get close due to poor range and torps are quite hard to hit with due to relatively low speed and the distance they have to bridge, next to enemy's sudden change in direction. BBs are overal a huge target, have slow reload, burn well and hard, can't turn, are slow, can't stop or accelerate, crappy concealment. CA/CL overall fall in the middle of these weakness. Where they are stonger than a DD in one part, they tend to come closer to the weakness of a BB in another part. What critical things do CV captains have to risk/deal with/take in account not to get killed fast? Those that really matter. So no things like rare plane hunting DDs being a threat to your stock of planes.

Ok, first, this game is mega arcade. The playable things in this game only resemble WW1/2 era ships. The classes are super different and are very much based on stats. It's as far away from a simulation as possible. Too much RNG for that too. But even though the classes are very different, they all play by the same rules. -They have all slow gameplay. Even the fastest DD is relatively slow. -they all use ranged weapons that they have to aim multiple seconds in advance. None of those weapons are homing. Each of their weapons has a max range. -they all have to risk retalliation on their hull when attacking with their main cannons. DDs got torps with doesn't reveal them, but the downside is that predicting enemy movement is very hard, making torps very hard to hit compared to main guns, plus the reload on torps is usually more than a minute. - because all ships, even DDs, don't turn on a dime, are slow at stopping and starting up, deciding where you want to go is very important. All ships in the game take 5-10 minutes at least to get from one side of the map to the other and in combat that will even take longer. -all ships have to go around obstacles and which way a ship goes around an obstacle can have dire conseqiences as an enemy can be sitting just around the corner and once again, even DDs might take several minutes to navigate around an island. -all these things and more all count for all BBs, Cruisers and DDs. This makes the game a very slow one, where thinking ahead is very important and every decision having big consequences for the rest of the game or your survivability. A mistake will take a long time to be corrected, if possible. Because ships are so slow, even small differences in concealment, armament range, turning speed, ship speed, stopping/accelerating, ship health, ship form, armor setup etc. can make the all the difference. Playing with all these statistic is a lot of fun. CVs sh*t on all these things. -Their gameplay is super fast. Plane speed is ridiculous, as is their turning speed compared to all ships in the game. -where other ships have to deal with range, shell speed, shell drop, speed drop, etc. CVs just fly up to ships and drop their armament a few km away. Plus there is no range limit to their attack. -CVs risk nothing. They just lay behind a mountain or in A1 sending planes, typing in chat "Just dodge, LOL!". Apart from a few plane losses, CVs don't have to take in account that their attack lights them up or in any way gives their position away. Not that anyone can hit them in A1. -CVs don't have to commit to anything. You want to help at A, but then C gets under attack? No problem, few seconds and you are there. Planes fly as fast from one side of the map to the other as a standard BB reload takes. Took a wrong approach with your plane? Fly away, turn around and in a few seconds you are on the right approach. -Obstacles? What obstacles? All maps might as well be Ocean. The islands to funnel surface ships so CVs have an even better idea of the turning options of their enemies. As for travel, straight as the crow flies. -all these things should tell everyone that CVs as a design do not fit with the gameplay of the other ships, as they do not abide by the core gameplay elements that are at the base of this game, where BBs, Cruisers and DDs do abide by. As for stats that are paramount for other ships to survive: -concealment: negated by CVs. No ship can escape a plane that is hunting them. And if spotted, a plane can keep them permaspotted. In a rare case planes get shot down, the new planes are so fast back at their previous destination that you can pick up spotting it in no time. -ship speed: negated by CVs. Speed difference between Kleber and the slowest plane is already too much, let alone a BBs speed. -ship turning angle and circle: maybe a tight turning DD ha any luck facing a similar skilled CV, depending on the CV armament. -Ship health: negated by the CV. You can have 100x the health the CV has, if you can't hit it, you can't kill it, while the CV has unlimited range, can eadily find you and you are not fast enough to "disappear" between airstrikes. -ship armor layout: negated by the CV. "Nice armor layout, dude. Might help against shells. Just like angling would." But positioning is useless against CVs, same as special hull forms and extra armor plating. Either CVs don't care or just use another armament and above all, armor is as useless as HP when you can't hit the target. -armament range: negated by CV. "So your ship has 30km range?" Who cares when CVs have unlimited range? And if you can't hit a CV, there is no use to bother discussing the uselessness of armor pen, flight time, dispersion, dmg etc. of surface ship armaments against CVs. CVs have no impactful negative points. The only thing is that CVs lack a main armament, but not having a range limit on their planes makes for a buffer that is way better than needing to defend your ship because you had to get in range of other ships. I'll leave Subs out of the discussion for now, as it already is a wall of text.

A nihilistic way of thinking that if everyone would think the same way, there would never be any positive chamges.

Any apology not coming from the devs themselves is not an apology on behalf of WG. During the golden times of WG , the CMs had some slight power and direct lines with the devs which were used. @Seraphice is only is only there to retweet dev BS and keep the community as calm as possible using the BS. They got no power whatsoever and are not able to get any real info concerning development and reasoning behind it. But that is what you get with a company as the current WG. With a community driven company the CMs are THE most important people as they are a link between the devs and the community. In a proffit driven company CMs are nothing more than powerless parrots that get a booklet with different BS response from the devs as they need to keep the community in check.

No need to apologise. People have different opinions and you are most certainly entitled to yours. Although I would have loved if you would also be able to recognise and acknowledge that CVs and Subs as they are now don't mix well with the original 3 classes and that you understand that because of this many people experience these developments in a negative way.

You don't need to apologize, though the thought is appreciated. The people that are responsible prolly will not tell you anything of value either no matter how much you'd ask them. I hate that they put you in the line of fire when the devs fail to respond as they should. You should not have to bare their responsibilities. I still would like to hear in detail what the exact reasoning is behind why according to WG test team minimap only spotting for CVs would be such a big problem. It's such a shame that the community has no way to discuss the game with the devs in a respectful way, so everything is clear for all. I thought the post you linked the management said they wanted to be open towards their community. In 2 years they have added a whole new class, new silver lines, a slew of new premiums and more, maybe a nice update on what they have tested CV wise, what worked, what not, why not, etc would be able to alliviate community frustration. Mabe you can try and persuade the right individuals to give us an update to clear the air a bit? Reminding them of their vow towards openness? I don't need every detail, just want to feel that the lines between community and developers are an open one.

I would love a more riskful and tactical loop tbh, where CVs need to run more risks to get good exp instead of laying in the back sending planes with the only risk mking an error which loses you a couple of respawning planes. Atm it is riskless (I do not see getting your planes shot down being a risk) and it is OP compared to all the other classes (mega speed, unlimited range, cover is useless, aiming from 2-3 km instead of 15-20km, stupendous spotting power, etc). The class is boring, kind of embarressing to play at the moment, while if the class would require skill, risk/reward gameplay, making a bad decision regarding positioning costing you your hull (no, that is currently only the case with people actively sailing their CV into the enemy base), having to consider range, concealment, positioning, etc. Now THAT would make CVs fun :D The reason normally the CV being the only one left of the losing team is because there is no risk needed to be taken, due to how OP and out of the main area of combat CVs are.

That was in 2021 and CV spotting still has not been adressed. It is the only thing I am looking for in the Dev Blogs as other changes/additions are useless without finally some significant changes to CV gameplay.

Sadly the terrible bits for me are very prevailant from T4 on out and to only play T1-2 is also lame 😔 I do not want CVs gone, I just want them tweaked so that they play better with the rest of the classes.

Only a few say this gamevis terrible. Most just have gripes with a handful but very invasive "development choices" WG has made. People complain about those because they like most of the game. The moment people stop responding here, then the game is dead.

Well, that is the problem, isn't it? You (and everyone else that "cares") are still playing :) People here would LOVE WG to change things, but don't care much for quiting the game. Just like people HATE scalpers, but people still buy everything off of them. Everyone can keep on dreaming things will magically get better, but if everyone just continues to keep on doing what they are doing, nothing is going to change.

The Dutch have a saying that goes something like overdoing something makes the point made more clearly. Wasn't the intension though xD

Yeah, that was a bit strange. I only submitted once xD But why WG still doesn't understand why CVs and Subs as they are now conflict with the game in such an enormous way, I still can't understand. And it is not like at least CVs can't be made so they fall in line with other ships, but with a twist. -Give their planes a max range and flight time, taking in mind that they can't control their ship while they are flying. But this will at least tone down their area of effect. -change their spotting to a cone in front of their planes nad then up to 4 seconds after they flew past the spotting stays. Stuff like this still makes them different, but brings them back into the fold. There will be more risk, more tactics and more skills involved, making them more fun to play for those that really looking for a challenge.

Spam accident on my part

Spam accident on my part

Spam accident on my part

The thing is sadly that because of CVs and Subs, most of the mechanics that made the game deeper and tactical have gone out the window. And then I am talking about things like flanking, optimal use of stats concerning concealment, max range, etc of different ships, the art of angling right. All those things that made the game fun and tactical, gone. All because CVs are more than 10x faster than the fastest surface ships, spot everything for everyone all over the map, can hit any enemy all over the map and have no counterplay or risk to speak of. Subs don's care about angling, concealment, spotting range and counterplay either. People can say "many people are too stubborn to deal with new mechanic" but it is the dumbing down of perfectly good gameplay and making half the game mechanics obselete by adding classes for little children that can't play the game using previously mentioned statistics to win the game, instead have to use classes that are rediculously faster than surface ships, can fire behind mountains, have unlimited range, do not care about angling, have no risk of retalation when attacking, have unlimited spotting range, do not have to predict their shots as they can drop their load from 0 to 2 km max, etc. CVs and subs, while being era accurate, have no place in this game as they are now. Even in real life there are a slew of very important reasons why BB, CA and DD as they are in the game have been decommisioned the moment CVs were used in bigger numbers and why nowadays CVs and Subs still are around while the rest of the ships in WoWs aren't. I too, as the OP, love this game as it was: tactical, fun, beautiful, unballanced to a point where everything was still doable, as even the most OP ships were playing inside the rules, even though they were super strong. CVs and Subs are classes that play outside the game as it was and are more player manned obstacles to annoy other players than that they are really playing the game. That is what CVs and Subs are, they only manipulate the game as there is no counterplay.