piritskenyer

You know where to click to support a concealment buff proposal /shameless self-promoting

The guns with the supercharge velocity and good accuracy IMO would cut it for T8, but T9 would be too much.

Tell that to my Krakens...

Yes, I am aware how she never carried them and how she was outfitted to be able to use them. I think gameplay wise it's really the only option if we want to keep the penetration range competitive at T8. You are right about that. The best example of a HV weapon with too short barrel would be the 17 pdr. It had a barrel length of 55, but a powdercharge similar in size to that of the 75mm KwK42 L/70, which is the reason for the excessive muzzleflash and high muzzle-end pressure blast which required the crew to open mouths and cover ears. That caused an additional shockwave behind the projectile which usually destabilised it, causing wonky long range accuracy. Two ways such problems can be solved: Reduced charge (that's pretty much what happened when the 77mm HV was introduced: same projectile fired from a slightly shorter barrel (L/50) but a reduced charge, which eliminated the pressure discharge and the flash) Lengthening the barrel to allow all propellant to burn (basically, as mentioned, the 75mm KwK42 L/70). Now the thing is that we don't know how much of the powder burned or failed to burn at a supercharge, that's what I'm going to be digging for, because that's gonna give us clues on how much it affected shell stability and as a result accuracy. Yeah, well, if KGV belongs at T7, what goes to T8? And where goes Nelson? Nelson was slated to be T7 for a long time, because T8 is where being a slow ship really kills you, so Nelson would probably be at a serious disadvantage there.

Search is your friend. Also, it's starting to be annoying how everyone and their sister start a new thread about a ship they obviously can't play properly instead of looking for advice in already existing threads.

Unrelated but still related: Why doesn't the Gneisenau get her 280mm guns as stock?

Oh okay, I misunderstood what you said. I thought you meant that the muzzle velocities would vary in game and in reaction did I say that it'd kick up a storm with the players. I'd need to do some digging on how the supercharges affected dispersion, a lot depends on the muzzleblast and on what the rifling could handle, but given how massively built the 15"/42 was, I don't think there would have been a problem with rifling, but rather with the muzzleblast.

Okay, then just ignore what I said...

No it is not. It has been speculated way before Gneisenau was announced as the T7 reg KM BB that the 14" guns would not cut it in T8 despite RoF and other buffs because of their low penetration. Looking at the penetration tables on navweaps they are not bad, but I have my doubts about them (I used to think they'll be fine, now I'm not so sure). We shall see I guess, but I for one would like the 3x 3x 15"/45 setup more. As for the 15"/42 velocity, if they take supercharges as standard for Vanguard, they'll probably also take the guns as if they were newly lined, so we'll prolly get 800 m/s-ish velocities (having varying velocities would kick up a sh1tstorm in the playerbase anyway).

I am currently speculating, but I'm doing that based on how several ships (Bogatyr, Mogami) have weapon and hull switches. Gneisenau would make no sense to be present completely ahistorically stock with the 380mm guns. Providing the ship as stock in her historical config would make sense both historically and gameplay wise (depending on how it's balanced it may even turn out to be kind of a paywall, although I hope I'm wrong there).

That's why I said: ignore, ignore, ignore. What he says isn't true, so why bother?

The longer hull could handle the 280mm's no problem. The short hull on the other hand cannot handle the 380mm's. The upgrade pth will probably be: A hull ---> B hull ---> 380mm

When you read crap like this, just hit the "Ignore" button

Yeah, I'm not worried in that department, I'm more worried about wether or not she'll be able to hurt the target she hits (although SC'd Mk XXIIb APC should be fine...)

Make no mistake: the policy of balancing prems is different between the two games. The standard principle there is to have prems be a bit under the line, while here it doesn't matter if they are below, on or over the line.

What will probably happen is that you'll start off with the historical Gneisenau setup (historical ("short") hull and 3x 3x280mm) and then you upgrade the hull (long hull needed to accomodate the 3x 2x380mm) and then you can mount the 380mm guns.

Ahahahahahhahahhhaaa! They have done nothing but since they released her, and she's still pretty bad. And I have played through her on the release patch.

There was a design proposal for a 3x 3x15"/45-armed version, however the British government design board opted for the 14"/45 Mk VII guns instead because politics they hoped (read: they were sure that it would happen) to bring in a new naval treaty that would have restricted max capital ship gun calibre to 14 inches. Of course hindsight being 20/20 we know now that that idea was never in this life gonna work out. While a remarkably good 14" gun, the penetration at range is just not good enough. (The French 330mm surpasses it in penetration, but that may be because the 330 is just an outstanding gun, not because the 14"/45 is bad). PS: the 15"/45's that the KGV would recieve would of course be an upgrade option, so you'd start off with her historical guns.

My best guess is that the 15"/42 guns would get the supercharges on Vanguard (meaning better range, penetration and flatter trajectory), with better turret traverse and general gun handling. Also I guess we could play around with shell types to make penetration, especially at long ranges, better (give it the APC Mk XXIIb). Navweaps.com lists the muzzle velocity for the supercharged APC projectiles out of a new gun (and as far as I know Vanguard's guns were re-lined before being installed) at 804 m/s (2638 f/s). Nathan Okun's penetration tables list 11.3" (287mm) of side armour penetration at 32'000 yards (29'250 m) for Mk XVIIb projectiles with supercharge, which is still pretty okay for T8 IMO. If the general thinking proves right, then KGV will recieve the 15"/45 Mk II guns in new turrets at T8, while all subsequent (T9, TX) ships are probably recieving the 16"/45 Mk II, III, IV guns with performance similar to that of US 16"/45 Mk 6, and/or the 18"/45 Mk II with performance similar to the IJN 460mm/45.

Furious 2x18" would basically be the KV-2 of WoWs

My concern with the guns is that these are the legendary 15"/42 Mk. I's that armed basically every British BB and BC save for Nelson and Rodney since 1915. Now theoretically they culd get a supercharge, but they never ever used that. That would make their guns more punchy, so it really is a question of do we go the historical way, or the way that helps with gameplay. I'd buy her regardless (I'm gonna be so fncking broke so fncking quick, I swear, it's not even funny.)

The way I see it is that the point of making secondaries better is that they get better secondaries but they get empty slots. So they can improve their ships in other ways while retaining impressive secondaries.

Never used an aim assist still managed to land most of my shot

Contact support and hope for the best.

She certainly is gorgeous!