BitByBit

You do Understand that .... youcant really translate reality into this right? I mean..... in real combat scenarios CVs werent 20 km away from their enemies..... specially since just the yamato had almost 40km range..... and Carriers had their own escort. So if u gonna go iwth the Real feel of things . I want to be able to oneshot carrier swith 1 bomb in the hangar bay or 1 torpedo like happened to the Hornet. I also want to have my very own personal escort group. I also want.... maps 300kmx300km and 2h timer.... and then sure wecan talk realism.... I dont mind reading interesting ideas but lets forget about realism in a Arcade game.

I agree with you Reyte that , strike setup shouldnt have Air superiority aka control of the map. And its true we might still have to adjust. But I honestly dont want a game based on a lucky oneshot where skill is not really involved, since we Cant refit on the fly. Id rather have the skill control the game. Also WG explains CV as if they are an RTS game... as in Real Time Strategy kind of way of playing. And top down view is not really RTS its just .... same as BBs different aiming , different handling but its still a BB with different kind of view and mechanics. This is where I want the RTS kind of scenario to come in, with deep tactical decisions. BB also make tacticals decisions, where to go... who to shoot, etc. But I think carriers could go further ahead. If we look at games like starcraft..... there are many different ways of attack , many different choices: choices that go for a win early game others for mid or late game. Simplified it just means where you balance your reasources to do the BIG attack. But of course all attacks have a counter if spoted properly and even tho theres always some luck involved if two players are equally skilled and one of them spots the enemy tactic it can be countered. This is what strategy games are all about... same as SC we can put many others... like Company of Heroes or Age of Empires etc.... Im not saying that we should give defensive AA ability to carriers, honestly id be happier with Repair party ( so we can repair dmg of the first drop, and it would still be useles if u are spoted by the fleet cause by then u are pretty much dead and having a repair doesnt really help you....but ppl will QQ too much , capital ships with Repair ability stronk) but I think there should be a deeper strategical battles between carriers. Assuming the enemy is Strike , balling your planes and going for him in hopes to catch him first and kill him, its not really a good way of playing. Seeing the enemy fighters ( being air supriority or strike , or standard...) out of position and deciding to strike him.... well i have no problem with that, one player was more skilled than the other and knew when to exploit a fail in his defense. This is how CV vs CV should be. Fighter positioning is already quite complicated.... even at t10 a mistake of 5 km in your fighters means you are in serious problems since the planes would need 1 minute to reposition plenty of time to reach and drop losing minimal planes. Long story short, what you say makes sense Reyte strike setups means little defense a lot of anti ship capabilities , while air superiority swaps those . The problem for me is, in my case, if this oneshoting keeps going on with all the border hugging involved etc ( true that they slow down but since now the drop zone is bigger droping closer near the edge is way harder cause the cursor and thus the aiming circle is locked further away) then only one build will be worth doing in solo t10 CVs games..... and imo thats kind of sad because it reduces versatility... we are limiting the options and not based in teamplay or .... decision or skill just because some players decide that lotery style of play is worth it, if it pays off they win instnatly cause they killed the enemy CV so they dont need to outdmg anyone if it doesnt they waste 3 minuts of the game. About RamirezKurita: There are two major problems in your idea. Ill call that 5km+ ( longest being des moines with 5.7) Long range AA since each carrier has different guns and im bad with Imperial system xD. Most Long range AA , montana , desmoines , midway have very little DPS. We are talking about 55-60 DPS. With defensive fire ability it can go up 9x so in the best scenario we would have 540 DPS which is an impressive number considering the whole AA of midway (with all the guns) is about 650. The problem is in order for you to be in range of covering a BB , cruiser ,etc you need to be somewhat close to them... lets say 2.5km so the planes have to fly under that Aura for enough time. Each calculation( Aka roll) is done every second... this means that to kill a full group of planes sometimes u need 30-40 seconds (im always talking about t10, usually is less but im just using this as example). T10 TBs fly around 156 knots with around 2800 HP each plane, translated into international system 156knots is aproxiamtely 80 m/s .... and the chance of taking of a plane is DPS/survivability*100, assuming u dont have more guns than those , 560/2800*100 = ~19%. This means in 10 rolls / 10 seconds, you would kill 2 planes as average, which is not bad, but 10 seconds is 800 meters. I think you can start to see the problem, if the enemy carrier is dumb enough that choses to engage ofc he will lose planes but if u are too far from the target u are covering (as in lets say 4 km), by the time he reaches your target u wont kill more than 1 or 2 planes out of 12. IF he is smart and he chooses not to engage and instead fly his planes 15km from you (at t10 i bet the Malta if its introduced whatever armor he has will have 15km sea detection at least) you will be spoted and... its true that they could be really well armored but then a yamato will just aim for you at 20km ( an dnot just a yamato everyone and their mom that sees you) and you willbe sent to citadel city quickly. This right here is, in my opinion, one of the biggest mistakes cruisers make. They keep going at 4km away from the BB they wanna escort because they are afraid of getting hit, and its true the AA defensive ability will disrupt the drop but their AA is totaly unefective at that range.... unless they get lucky rolls. In order for your AA to have time to work u need 30 seconds at least so this means the planes must be AT LEAST! 4km away from u when u start engaging them ( if you sit behind the target you want to protect at 3km+, you wont be effective at all). Some streamers even say that the Midway planes are "TOO FAST" , which its true they are turboprop planes if im not wrong so yes they are faster than the t8...t9 etc ( Ijns are the same , just IJN doesnt have midways xD) but that just means since your AA also goes up that u need to get closer to the BB. TL;DR : Being close to the fleet is really dangerous, trying to give AA cover makes it even more dangerous regardless of how armored your CV is , even yamatos and montanas get citadeled at that range so imagine what they could do to a carrier with 60k HP

The problem of going with the fleet specially at high tiers is that you get focused by enemy BBs at long range and your armor is thin enough that you get citadeled sometimes even from the front or the deck. I do angle my hakuryu and midway when im in this situations but you still get heavy damage plus one of the problems of going with the fleet is that the moment you enter the engagement range of cruisers you wont be able to land or takeoff from the carrier since there will be too many fires. Going with the fleet in the general sense of actually sailing 2-3km from them under the short -medium range AA ring is just not posible. The idea is that you follow them from a safe distance like 5-6km+ and when you see the planes incoming you ask for a cruiser in the front line to turn and hug you. We do this because we are priority targets, with weak armor ( even the armored carriers like midway , and hakuryu / taiho takes a lot of damage) and our fighting capabilities are reduced to 0 if we get fires on deck that can be then exploited by other carriers. Something to remember when talking about carriers is : We do have high speeds 33knots+ , but we have 1,2km turning radious thats about 30% more than BBs of the same tier. True that our rudder shift is shorter, but that means that even tho we initiate the turn faster we are locked in the turn for way longer. Also since we lose about 11-12knots when we turn. A lot of cruisers ask me to keep with them when they are changing course and its just imposible when i turn i go down 13k knots for a long time, while cruisers -even tho they also lose speed in the turn- do it faster. TLDR ; going close enough to the fleet as to be in the 3,5km mid range AA bubble is suicidal

I think that skill would be interesting to avoid the gameplay GerryHYH stated : "Brainless ball ( specially midway) of planes that come at you to snipe you". It would increase the depth of the strategy and comitment this types of attack would imply and also the response ( lets not forget the CD , and how the ability works). Ill start by saying that, I disagree with what was said in some post that it's a 50/50 chance to know if you are being sniped or not. It IS posible to know when it's coming but it is NOT posible to counter it, only to mitigate the damage to some extent, let me explain: If you do not see planes in the first 2-3 mintues of the game.... that means something fishy is going on in the borders of the map. The problem is that with this information you cant do much . Lets put two scenarios: Firstly, lets forget about t9 below carriers since their concealment allow to stay closer to the fleet to some extent and also the MM bracket for that tier is more populated. Something the Midway and the Hakuryu are not that good at doing, specially with all those pesky t10 BBs ready to send you to citadel city. Second, lets assume we have no escort, this that might seem crazy ( you know because this is supposed to be a team game) actually happens more than often at t10s for two reasons mostly: People just dont care, they want to do damage. T10 Carriers have between 16-18km detection.... this means in order to be safe we need to be around 22...24 km away from the "CLOSEST" enemy at that range no cruiser can shoot. So maybe for the first wave sure but then the cruiser will move on, noone likes sitting for 20 minutes near a carrier that as people said might or might not get attacked. In t10s specially after 0.5.1 and particularly at late night or early morning ( even mid afternoon sometimes... pretty much the whole day....) you end in battles with 3v3 , 4v4... etc. This incomplete teams sometimes spwn really spread across the map so early escort is imposible. Not to mention that sometimes there are no cruisers in the composition. Now for the sake of tactical discussion lets assume the two situations where 1 carrier tries to snipe the other. Midway vs Midway : In this scenario, you are gambling completly if he is in fact going to snipe you, you have to do the same. And this guys... is the whole Extent of your fighting capabiltiy. Pretty much the start of the game is as follows, you move your planes in a stright line from your starting position to other position to initiate the attack as to trick your enemy carrier ( so he doesnt know where you really are) then you just , as we say in starcraft, 1A to the enemy meaning you blob your planes and send them. Whoever gets LUCKY and find the other carrier first won. You just lock the enemy fighter with your fighter and torpedo Bomb him to death. ( ofc u can border abuse to some extent still.... like many cv players do some even posted here but i wont mention them ) Midway vs hakuryu : This scenario allows for more gameplay. But its basicaly the same as before and everything depends on how long the midway fighter locks your fighter. Pretty much the same blob goes towards your ship, the midway has superior AA to the hakuryu ( pretty much 2x the DPS = 2x chances of downing a plane) this means the midway has the upper hand in an AA defense scenario. Midway fighteers engage hakuryu first group ( 2nd hakuryu fighter is waiting or trying to engage the group) the midway fighter finish the 1st hakuryu fighter , locks the 2nd. drops on the carrier and wins. This scenario can be reversed but the chances of a hakryu drop on a midway are way less due to the strong midway AA. Hakuryu vs hakuryu: we are back to the mirror match of the first point. Hakuryu fighters lock each other . the first to find the enemy wins. I tried to explain this for those ppl that didnt play 1000+CV games. Long story short, it is posible to know if you are being targeted. But the counterattack is quite limited. In fact, its non existant. You can try to dodge the torps and minimize the dmg but that means his 2nd wave will be 100% sucesful and then he has free air rign. I dont think thats how CV vs CV should be. I agree that Cvs should be punished for not having their fighers close (out of position) when they are being engaged by the sniping blob. But I think with the current state of the game even if your fighters are back, unless the enemy really doesnt care the amount of ammo on the fighters is not enough to actually kill the incoming blob, in some cases like in mirror matches, you just dont have fighters "free" to attack anything due to the new Taunting mechanics fo fighters. Now the question i want to solve from theorycrafting stand point is " what would having AA charges (ability) actually do?" I think it would give 40 sec of free air. Every good CV players knows how to fight the defensive ability skill. So basicaly they will know exactly when its up and that will be used to deterrent the fight. This will mean in the next 40 sec uou need to land and service your planes ( if u are a midway) , or just service and launch if u are hakuryu. I think this will balance the discrepancies in AA between the midway and the hakuryu. And help tilt the balance between carriers in terms of AA. I love to theorycraft and talk about this issue so whoever shares that interest im open to discussing more about it