mtm78

How about giving Senjo 20km torps ... with the old concealment on them? Would make her a bit more balanced I think Ow wait, that was tea, I thought it was my Krupnic....

Too gimicky for World of Gimmicks

I don't dare to embed the song on forum, it might trigger an infraction as there are many sensitive souls around

Guys, let's settle instead on pay4unfairadvantage ?? I know it's long and doesn't roll of the tongue like it would stick but it's the best description I can come up with. Premium ship's fair advantages would be premium income and captain training, they can be as strong as tech tree ships for all I care, or even better in some things as long as they are weaker in others. But WG has missed the boat on some, like Belfast. But yes, there are arguments which were valid at the time I guess, but if you see current performance I don't understand why they don't admit it's broken as is.

I know of this answer you speak off, I think it WAS posted in the 'news from world' thread... but yeah good luck finding it as I don't know who posted it and can't limit my search to one person for that reason. I would have liked the answer if I had one left, I basically agree a ship composition difference isn't the end of the world. Why didn't you ask about the radar stacking per team which the MM is so fond off? That's a much more interesting topic imo as it's actually more influential ( again, imho ) as a single DD difference. edit: @Tubit101 the previous answer actually had the complete statistics from a long period, it was much more interesting as this one ( as having data allows more 'theory crafting' ).

That's pretty generic, you're not losing much smokes as my Trashcan has heal, so you're only losing an IJN spotter DD's smoke ability on the other flank I also think we might even agree if we just call some gunboat DD's more light cruisers instead ;) My Trashcan just switched to survivability build... I know I'm a pleb, I still had CE on it before ( worked ok with tier 8 Trashcan ). You're not losing a DD, as I never were one. Now, if you take a double Yugumo division you're just stupid, let's agree on that as well :D

Most important suggestion? Isn't normalization normalized according to caliber, and USN now only has better auto bounce angles ;)

Allufewig get's, why don't you?

Flamu is talking about skilled players ( close to his skill level even ). Which is ALWAYS his target audience. And when you're in that group, there are just ships which are clearly better, because you're good enough to put their maybe small benefits to efficient use. Take Leni - Minsk ( or in your example: old Kiev ) ... if I am a Leni I will not be your friend, and I don't even need to shoot you myself I can just spot you for my team due to better concealment. I'm faster, I got better stealth, so I can contest cap's better. And I can stealth torp, your Kiev can not. You personally might be be performing better in Kiev, but that seemingly because you lack the skill required to make use of the benefits of Leningrad. Or even simpler and maybe easier to digest, it indeed just does not fit your play style. I have those ships, which I know are good ships, but I can't make them work. But I am 100% aware it's 'just me' and that the ship is indeed good ( or even comparatively 'better' as something I do feel comfortable in ).

You implied I used 'pay4advantage' because it would make me feel less 'guilty' about owning broken premiums... now I am an Aspie so these things aren't always clear to me, but that looks like a personal attack to me. Then you ignore any counter argument, and just repeat your own emotional take on the matter at hand. A take which I don't support, I am perfectly happy with saying 'pay4advantage' while looking at my 100% broken and shouldn't exist in current game in current state Imperator Nicolai. And that has nothing to do with needing to feel ok about buying it, I tested the ship before release and gave my feedback on it to WG, that doesn't mean I should feel guilty for still buying it. I mean, if it does mean I should feel guilty, I guess somewhere my emotion processing center is missing or broken as I just don't feel guilt at all. Guess I should enjoy those few benefits from being non neurotypical If that was meant in a different way, I would please employ you to be more specific in your posts.

I think this conflicts with the amount of working brain cells WG expects in their players, remember we're not capable of switching ammo in destroyers right ;) Other than that it does sound like a much better option, babyboats didn't need even more diapers removing a big part of required skill to play something. But hey it's a babyboat, so feck it let's make them easy to play so our paying babies can have more fun in the most broken class in the game. I think this might surprise you I don't want to imply it is huge, but it was around 1 or 2 seconds warning time depending on angle off approach. Also IJN still has the highest alpha and flooding chance, the issue is 'only' with hitting them. Any change to concealment is good, even 0.1km. What I would like from WG though is more transparency. Like now, when we get some of the internal statistics WG uses for balancing, and which we don't have access to. That is also why I would be first in line to support a deepwater torpedo setting for IJN.... because WG can't make the torps really stealthy on IJN because they would murder DD's with them. I can take a single Gearing / Fletcher / Z-52 torp, I can't take an IJN torp ( or well I've died a lot of times to a single IJN torp ). But sorry WG, I AM actually quite capable of pressing numbers on my keyboard, and no that's not because I'm a high level player.

You mean how you tried to argue I was an 'apologist' right Don't light the fire if you can't stand the heat 'boi'.

I think that is to much for him really, he rather just uses ad hominem attacks on people trying to imply they are 'apoligistic because they bought P2W ships' or some bs like that Not like I been saying from the start that all my OP premiums are broken, does that mean I should refuse to buy them? That would be a silly claim, but hey that wouldn't surprise me from Mr cry cry you buy premium ship that is why you say it's not pay2win cry cry.

Yeah, BB's are fine, we can solve ammo selection problem by making new line perform 'adequately' using only HE Also, let's make new line of hybrid, we call that BB but they are actually cruisers. I mean, they have cruiser concealment, but hey that's not important really so we still call them babyboat. They also have higher HE dpm and fire starting abilities as Zao, but hey, that's because of balance comrade. Yeah.. and as answer we get: trust us.

Ow please.... want me to go clip some bits of the various streams where I see better players as me complain about making babyboats even easier and more forgiving to play because you can't even punish a broadside? 'but you can perhaps once in a blue moon still hit their citadel'.... yeah, but NORMALLY that Iowa which just took 13k damage because it showed full broadside to a Yamato at 10km would be dead.

As I said

The problem I have with this is seeing broadsiding babies and not being able to punish them.... how is this good for gameplay in general? How does this teach players about angling, when there is no need to do so? Also, ofc, could you lower all the citadels on all my cruisers to, just so we can test new playstyle? No, you don't want to do this with babyboats. you had no issues doing it with IJN DD's. You later buffed a few here and there, after being told for months there were issues... but hey, maybe I just like reminding you off that Double standards still.

It could be worse true, but that doesn't really make it 'better'. If it were worse I would at least be sure I should just walk away ;) Now I'm just waiting on some clear communication on which way they want to go..

Uhm I did buy Belfast and yes I knew it was overpowered. I even bought Imperator.. and I was ST at the time so yeah I did know beforehand how she would perform. But I never denied the ship is overpowered. The difference is semantics, pay4advantage is just a undeniable truth. Pay2win, 1st there isn't a common consensus of what it actually implies.. does it imply you buy an 'I win now' button which you can press with always the same result? If it does. even broken overpowered ships are not pay2win. If it means 'pay4winningmore' aka 'pay4advantage', where you buy something which is stronger as available without spending money but you still don't get the 'I win now' button, then why not just say 'pay4advantage' and avoid this whole debate about what pay2win means? People tend to put emotional thoughts behind this and that is just not needed. I don't suffer from apologism why the heck would I be the strongest advocate of removing at least the tier 8 concealment module on Belfast.. that's just ridiculously sad to claim I say 'pay4advantage' because no one in their right mind would attack me on the semantics, I thought, since it would be 100% clear what it means. Seems I overestimated the intelectual capacity of some forum members.

In a single battle, having bought Belfast is not pay to win, the ship doesn't have 100% win rate. It is, in any way you look at it, pay4advantages though. Ideally, pay4advantage would be limited to premium account xp bonus, or having a ship which can use captains without retraining. But with WG, this has been a bit 'iffy' with some premiums... some others are.. well let's not Discuss Hipper being bad and Pudding being a hipper and thus equally bad I use pay4advantage, not limited to those things sadly, just to make sure people can't come back with 'but you can lose games with it so it's not pay2win', and then you get this same whole semantics discussion... not sure if it's useful to not just call it pay2win... idk it does seem very polarizing when you use the p2w term over pay4advantage. Afaik the only 'gameplay affecting' difference is that Arkansas Beta acts like a tier 9 battleship with upgrade modules.. been a while though so might be wrong?

My Belfast sits around 64% I think, using a captain who is from my Edinburgh so no IFHE either. Then again, I have a Blys with 67% win rate which started with a 3 point captain ( now 14 points ). While Leningrad has only 63% and had a high point captain from the start. Saying premiums are only performing like they do due to captains, or even that those captains have the largest influence on it, is just wrong. I mean I used to use the same captain on my Gremmy, my Imperator and my Murmansk ( before we got the lines ) and my performance doesn't really shift that much with captains, it just means I have to/can play a little bit different is I use a tanking build BB captain on a roaming cruiser for instance. I've played many games with premium BB without having SI which is the first thing I go for in a BB.. but I was training a cruiser captain. You don't always train the captain which is most suited for your premium, not many will spend the doubloons to respec often and certainly not everyone does make a dedicated captain for their Belfast.

Indeed. Lmao, yeah let's tell WG their MM is fine, we don't need them to work on better balanced teams right Having 4 radars on one team and 0 on the other is just fun and engaging, right Please, just put a bin on top of your head and enjoy the view. Why are you crying about sbmm? This isn't about sbmm, I don't think sbmm would be 'fun' in particular for one.. But that has NOTHING to do with balancing on ship roles which actually is the biggest problem of the current MM.

The thread might be a joke I can fully understand WHY the joke is actually funny. It does feel like a BETA because you don't expect games which are OUT of BETA to still go through 'minor' changes such as IFHE/concealment system/class roles changes. I liked the game during earlier stages, and I had some faith in where they were taking this but lately it just feels like what I like about the game is being phased out and everything I hate about the game is being emphasized.

^^ Kinda was obvious from the post he quoted but hey Let's just agree WG is selling people ships which inflate their performance compared with tech tree counterparts, and leave aside where this extra performance leads to?