AndyHill

This is so incredibly wrong it's baffling. Data from the server will show how much people want steel, just as with CV-infested clan battles. But actual reality isn't the point here anyway, is it.

So this thread is already heading towards thousands of pages in several chapters just like the Other One, because just about everyone hates subs. WG already know it, yet subs are marching on towards inevitable full release. I don't think I've ever seen such contempt not only towards your playerbase, but also towards your own game by any other company ever.

Well yes, this much is obvious by now, that's how WG do all of their testing. They have check boxes for alpha, beta, internal, public and final testing, but they are basically just meaningless rituals, because the release date has been decided beforehand and test results have 0 effect on anything. For example to an actually professional game developer the need for massive changes in speed and damage of sub torps between the final test and release would have been a clear indicator of a failed test and the need to go back a step or two to re-evaluate. At later stages you wouldn't even change two parameters at once, because that makes evaluating the results very difficult and even the need to do so just before release is pretty much unthinkable. What basically happened was developers taking a desperate shot in the dark to maybe possibly hopefully make something so far unworkable somehow work. And then released it. Even if subs were now perfect and the best thing ever, the developers couldn't possibly know it without testing and WG's development process would still be about as unprofessional as a surgeon not washing his hands before an operation. That's not even really a matter of opinion, no matter what you might think about submarines themselves.

Convoy as it is right now is kind of rudimentary, but a new game mode that doesn't suck completely is a magnificent achievement in itself. It's also an important form of naval combat that has been missing from this game until now, while also being pretty hectic and furious and actually kind of fun action for those who like a more brawly approach to the game. Go check it out if you already haven't, I'm sure there are already videos available if you don't want to install the test server. More importantly, subs would be right at home in the mode and if they stayed in the convoy hunts - where they rightfully belong historically and functionally anyway - the class could be implemented in the game in a way that saves big important faces at the St. Pete's office as well as what's left of the game. Even RTS carriers might work pretty well, the current ones have such poor fighter control that they are kind of lame in a situation where your role may be largely defensive. Still, they are far less annoying and disruptive than in random battles, because concealment is not quite that big a deal in Convoy. We have been talking about special modes for special ships for ages and the early tests are promising. Convoy will still need work, but so far it looks like it just might be a slight chance at an actual game saver, which is nothing short of a miracle at this point. One can only hope and dream, I guess.

Years of disrespect, neglect and brutal milking of the wallets finally results in the most dedicated members of the community leaving. It takes days for WG to formulate a "Sorry, but not sorry" -response that doesn't even touch the real issues.

This isn't going to go down well. The only message that means something is very simple, people don't need to think hard about the wording if the content is what it needs to be and it needs to come from a singular location, St. Pete. Anything else and WG might as well just post some kind of a middle finger meme.

It's never been about communications. Sure, there are some hickups when people don't have a common language, but when a developer is genuinely interested in making a good game and actually care about their audience, people just laugh the occasional funnies off together. When every game design decision - as well as everything else - is intended to milking quick bucks from the playerbase and the health of the game or the said playerbase is measured in €/min, any communication has to be constructed in an absolutely masterful way just to keep the constant shipstorms remotely manageable. A gem you swallow and then eject is still of great value after a bit of a rinse, but no matter how much you try to polish a turd it takes one quick whiff to figure out what's actually going on.

Since the Missouri is coming back for the anniversary of the end of WW2, it would make all the sense in the world to have a special "Missouri 1945" version with the famous table and stuff in-port. The whales who already have Missouri would buy that. The whales who don't have the original Missouri would keep buying billions of loot boxes every christmas just to have a chance of getting one. The whales and old farts who already have the Missouri wouldn't be upset because of the nerf to credit earning and because the ship is no longer as exclusive as it used to be. Just how much do WG think they're going to make money from the upcoming Missouri lootcalendar thing to make up for all those negatives?

No no no this needs to be a super-extra premium game for extra premium cost, I still have almost 500 days of normal premium left.

Community: "We want to play your game and love your game! And make content for it to help others love it as much as we do! Spend thousands of hours and thousands of euros playing and buying and discussing and debating and advertising free of charge! We want to create endless hours of videos and forum posts and share our passion with everyone!" WG: "Shut up and let us focus on this lowest common denominator cash grab bullship we have going on here."

I literally said "feel", which is the polar opposite of "measure". Also I wasn't referring to what you specifically might feel since it's as hard to measure and communicate as "fun", I was talking about a more generic case. And yes, if some ship a) rarely gets attacked, b) doesn't suffer from being spotted and c) doesn't suffer from getting focus fired a lot, its AA might FEEL effective because you don't get hurt by planes a lot even if it has little to do with the AA.

I don't have the boat myself, just saw the stats. 30.5 isn't exactly slow and that's with some of the best concealment in the game. Now that's the king godzilla kong of all ifs, isn't it? Or would you say that a 20+km lighthouse ship "somehow" have a similar ability in making hide and seek plays? In reality that if doesn't really exist and thus there actually is a difference. Who said it aws the biggest issue?

Balao does 30.5kts submerged, a little bit faster than on the surface. Then you wouldn't see a difference between a lighthouse build Stalin and a Shima, but I suspect you actually do. If you feel that DDs are problematic due to their concealment then the submarines are by necessity more problematic, since their ability to hide is greater than anything else in game.

For everyone, of course. WG loves us so much that what makes us happy makes them happy.

Well if it was baked in (as it was), that does affect flags and camos. This means that the baked in multiplier needed to be less than 17% for the deal to be fair on average.

Well that's the thing. If the mission is fair compensation then that's exactly the ship WG removed. 17% with no multiplying effects.

Here's a thing that's been puzzling me a bit recently... So there's a ship in the game that earns 17% (does not multiply flags & camos) extra credits. Seventeen percent. One seven o slash o. Does. Not. Multiply. Flags. &. Camos. And wargaming remove the entire ship from sale because it imbalances the game's economy. what

It's entirely possible that a lighthouse build Stalingrad manages to hide from the last couple of ships to win the game, but that doesn't mean that differences in concealment don't matter. The amazing ability to hide and find cover in the middle of open sea will allow submarines to hide better than pretty much anything in the game. In fact, even a Shimakaze might engage a Wooster in a gunfight in a desperate hail mary to win the game at the end or just finish it sooner - a submarine can't come out guns blazing even if it wanted to.

Yoshino AA might feel effective, because it's naturally a backline spammer, which makes it the least affected ship type. As mentioned earlier, backline spammers are the least relevant target and least likely to be attacked by a good player in the first place. Additionally, backline spammers are spotted a lot of the time anyway as they fire their guns and getting spotted by planes is unlikely to impact their gameplay or even their options for maneuvering. Finally, by the virtue of how kiting spammers tend to play, they are usually in a kiting angle at a range from nearest ships and thus ready to minimize the effect of incoming fire as well as maneuver optimally against air attacks. Still, even though in the above example the carrier had the absolute power to pick the fight and screwed it up as horribly as possible, the engagement ended in a 0-0 draw where neither party did any damage to each other.

Tried coop to see if my mods are working, took a Shima and just rushed forwards while watching cat videos. With a CV and 3 SS per team there was so little stuff on the surface that I actually sailed right through. When I killed the bot carrier and checked the scores there were still 3 bot subs alive and hiding somewhere. Welcome to 20min coops. To be honest even after all the experience with WG games, I completely failed to predict their ability to ruin coop of all things.

Real Balao 8.75kts submerged, the in-game one does 30.5kts. I can now relive all the exciting submarine stories I read as a kid, almost as if I was a real submariner. What next, 115kts Iowa?

All the testing in the world turns into a pointless ritual if the process doesn't include the option of stopping or turning back when problems are found. Imagine the following conversation between two airliner pilots: Captain Warren Games: "All right, time for the final checklist. Be punctual now, this is important." 1st officer Publicus Testerus: "Ok, ready." WG: "Engine status?" PT: "One is fine, two won't start, three is fine and four appears to be on fire." WG: "Ok then, doors and external?" PT: "Port wing door won't close properly and we have two flat tires." WG "Check that, how about cabin crew, are you ready?" Cabin: "One of the crew is outside on the wing with his sleeve stuck in the port wing door." WG: "The next item is permissions for taxi and takeoff. ATC, are we cleared to go?" ATC: "Negative. Runways are closed due to cat 5 hurricane winds and there is another plane blocking you from taxiing." WG: "That completes the list and all safety considerations have now been considered. Let's go."

These would all be actually (potentially) good deals and you'll probably see something in these lines soon during the anniversary event. They might make more money or they might not (fewer people paying full price etc.), but usually they tend to be kind of effective - unless they are overused. That's why different kinds of events are needed. The scambox events are just such a different kind of a thing, intended to entice people to spend money on stuff they otherwise might not. That's why they tend to offer a chance to get something interesting for a low price and some kind of a consolation thing you get even if you don't get lucky. And the key to everything is making people overvalue their chances of getting the good stuffs while giving them mostly the less good ones to generate income without saturating the market with the valuable stuffs. This is where the fudged descriptions can be very effective. Basically it's entirely possible for the events to be mutually beneficial. WG can sell people digital goods that are rather easy to manufacture, people get actually useful stuffs that are helpful in the game and make them happy and the game's economy isn't oversaturated with stuffs people would buy for full price. That's one of the reasons people feel so angry about the scams, they want the fun, useful events they can enjoy and get some stuffs for a reasonable price.

There is so little print involved, fine or unfine, that people (at least many of them) will read all of it. And although we are on average talking about the average WoWS playerbase, people would read and post about the fine print everywhere in no time flat. Even though many of my recent teammates are probably incapable of making a purchase with the Amazon one-click thing, the playerbase are still gamers and hungry for every bit of info that might help them game the system. Small print won't work. WG would also get caught red handed without plausible deniability if they openly admitted to scamming (once one person sees the text everyone knows pretty quickly) and people would be even more wary the next time around. Whereas a little bit of fudgery in descriptions would bring them X euros extra per day until caught, at which point they can just go oops this thing that will guaranteed never happen again happened again. This is how you scam people who have been on the internet for more than two weeks. The flashy YOU WON A PRIZE FROM A NIGERIAN PRINCE (not really we just want to take all your money) -scams need a lot bigger target audience to catch just a few people gullible enough. It's not rocket science either and for example the satan crates debacle or the Puerto money grab scheme are in the same ballpark of deceptiveness if not beyond. The people who make torps go every which way are not even in the same department as the people who concoct WG's marketing schemes. And even if they've been kind of most of the time pretty decent at making games, they've never been bad at sucking wallets dry.

Well Krusty is a clown, isn't he? The main thing here is that this is not an isolated event but just the latest chapter in a glorious history of WG's customers getting systematically screwed over. The satan containers alone were such a scummy scam (where information was considered "excessive" when it made people not want to buy stuff) that there's absolutely no doubt about the willingness and intent WG have when it comes to events like this so benefit of doubt is not very strong in this one. Furthermore, the WG cons are not targeted at individuals but a playerbase that probably numbers in the millions. When numbers are that big people tend to settle on a bell curve and depending on how subtle the deception is a number of people will 1) fall for the scam and never know about it, 2) fall for the scam and figure it out from the forums or somewhere else and get a refund, 3) notice the scam, get angry and spread badwill on the internet, 4) buy the stuffs scam or not and 5) do not buy in any case. The win condition for WG in a scam is if 1) is bigger than 2) + the effects of 3) and that requires a level of subtlety, not Krusty the Clown -crab. 2) is basically guaranteed to be a tiny fraction of 1) in any case, since few people go to forums in the first place and if you make the refund process painful enough, even many of those who do will just take the hit and not bother. 3) is the tricky part especially because of a very real danger of actual legal consequences and AFAIK the christmas scam already caught the attention of some authorities. Even if it was too little too late to have any real effect, WG might not want to get caught with both hands in the cookie jar very soon again. Most importantly, this latest debacle is just the latest chapter in a long story of scammery and scumbaggery. It's entirely possible that the convicted serial killer's wife actually did fall down the stairs with a knife, managing to stab herself 90 times in the process, but there's a good reason nobody is going to buy it. Especially since she probably actually didn't. I have little interest in low tier ships so I wouldn't know what kind of camos are available at what tiers, all I know is that non-T10 camos have been 50% off a number of times and T10 camos probably never have.