AndyHill

Strongest ship in its class on its tier, when matchmaker matches ship classes evenly. Here's a simple thought experiment to demonstrate the issue; imagine you are in a final exam for the "Introduction to statistics and probabilities" course and you are presented with the following question: 1) In a game called World of Warships there are two teams, each with one CV, one BB, one CACL and one DD. CV is the completely dominant class and in every match the CVs wipe out all the other classes and then proceed to fight each other to see who wins. Draws are not possible, one team always wins and one loses. What is the average win ratio for CVs, BBs, CACLs and DDs after a) one battle b) 2956890 battles

Yes I do. Should be easy to explain, right?

The thing with "limited ships" isn't the number of games played, but the entry cost. Thus for example steel ships and currently probably RB ships as well are played mostly by people who needed to either play lots of ranked or clan wars or have shiploads of freeXP. People have had 4 years to grind T10 carriers so they are not exactly exclusive AND there are people playing T10 carriers (like I did) who have never played the modern iteration before (except for a few quick games on the test server in my case). What exactly can we see from their winrates and how is it relevant to this discussion?

Unless you take into account the fact that they do double the spotting anyone else does and are all but immortal as well as by far the best cap defenders. Because they also do lots of damage and kills with the best of them, their k/d ratio is through the roof. The only two things carriers are not either good at or in a class of their own are capping and tanking. This is true in that the real damage CVs do to the game don't show in stats. Also you forgot to mention why WR is relevant to this discussion.

Why would it matter if one of the carriers was op compared to the other carriers? This discussion is about all the carriers as a class, not just one of them.

So, how much win% do you think carriers should have on average (let's say haku, mid and aud) to be considered overpowered or just good or something?

BBs are supposed to be the massive damage dealers and carriers are not that far behind typically. Also BBs typically do a lot of their damage to cruisers and other BBs, whereas carriers excel at hunting DDs, making their damage more effective. Also I do know what WR is, you just need to explain why you think it's in any way relevant to the discussion.

They don't lack in damage department, they are good at dealing damage, close to the top in fact. And what exactly do you mean with winrate?

Unless you take into account the fact that they do double the spotting anyone else does and are all but immortal as well as by far the best cap defenders. Because they also do lots of damage and kills with the best of them, their k/d ratio is through the roof. The only two things carriers are not either good at or in a class of their own are capping and tanking.

There are also rewards available: https://worldofwarships.eu/en/content/oh-look-its-prize-1/ Also if you want to save the bat ship you can throw some money at it now.

The projected date for getting the Puerto (which is what I think this should be?) is wrong. When I took the screenshot it was already 21.11.2019 22:40. Or if that's not supposed to be the prediction for getting puerto (maybe it's the time I got the previous stage?) you really really need to include the projected time.

Much more effective than pumping out advertisements and special offers for recruiting would be to help us not lose our recruits when they figure out that a big part of this game is getting pooped on without counterplay.

Coal, steel and some weird containers as well as the Puerto Rico available in the New Year Snow & Blow -event: https://medium.com/@devblogwows/st-new-years-celebration-f73a226338f5

I have to ask: WG are you completely insane? Do you have any idea how much work it is to grind the filth? The unlocks are out of this world -grindy already, but holy crab on what planet does anyone think that 50k credits is worth 1000 filth? 24 of the 8000 unlocks is not even humanly possible, let alone the other tracks. I was kind of expecting missions and stuff that would produce extra filth, but if this is really everything we're getting, it's just completely nuts.

Why would it be historically wrong? It's true that Dds were a somewhat low priority target, but whenever there was a suitable opportunity, planes really did a number on DDs. And as far as priorities go, anything without a flat top was a secondary target at best when planes found a fleet to bomb.

Technically the term HE bomb is somewhat odd since there are virtually no bombs without explosive content. The difference is in fusing and possibly material thickness that would allow the bomb to penetrate some armor. In reality nobody wanted bombs dropped on ships to explode on the surface, so there was always some delay - and nobody wanted to drop shrapnel bombs on ships, because they would be largely ineffective. So either the HE or AP bombs are necessarily a very strange choice for a weapon. Note that since all bombs had explosive content (in addition to doing physical damage and causing sparks etc.), they should all be able to start fires. Also note that the same applies to shells in the game as well, these are not inert penetrators like what tanks had but rather some kind of APCBCHE stuff things intended to explode with lots of force after penetrating.

A few randomly picked off-the-top-of-my-head things that are stupid or just silly in the new carrier system thing: Only a single flight attacks at a time Only a few planes per flight attack at a time AAA is capable of attacking one plane of each flight in range with 100% ability (I'm sure the devs have a perfectly acceptable explanation based on quantum physics) AAA is capable of engaging any target in any sector with full efficiency Airplanes (visible from far away) aren't capable of spotting DDs from basically point blank distance Squadrons send part of their planes back home before striking (and drop ordnance into the sea, but they would never land with explosives on board anyway) Non-CV ships routinely fly dozens of very effective fighter planes in a battle (these are not in specific order but this one is just hilariously stupid) Fighter planes appear from thin air if an attack flight chooses to drop them. Carriers have to be made invulnerable to DoT (=other carriers) to prevent sniping Why would you ever drop non-AP bombs on ships and what the deck are AP bomb overpens? AAA can occasionally shoot through mountains Immunity period of planes when their friends are striking The sector reinforcement thing is kind of a bit silly considering that all the guns always shoot all the time regardless of their position on the ship Automatic consumables on the carrier Braindead autopilot system I definitely agree that dropping ordnance and sending planes back before striking is stupid, but it is literally just a drop in the ocean among the monumental braindeadness that is the carrier combat implementation in WoWS.

What you are mostly lacking is experience, you have very few low tier battles in DDs and not many in total. A large part of what you described as spatial awareness is actually just experience, it's much easier to play when most of the things happening around you are just permutations of what you've seen earlier. And the problem with rushing up the tiers is that most others already have it, whereas you don't. There has already been some solid advice in this thread about having exit strategies and such, but there is no simple answer to playing a DD successfully. You have to take risks and push as far as you can without getting killed, everything you need to do depends on the situation. You have to know the capabilities and probable locations of enemy DDs and radars especially, if it's a carrier game you're in luck because you're only just as screwed as any unicums on either team. The best advice I can give is to get more experience - and that works best in an environment where not everyone else already has it.

Sure. DDs, CA/CLs, BBs, BCs, CV, DE, CVE, SS, torpedo boats, minelay...(FORGET IT WG I DID NOT WRITE IT ALL THE WAY SHOO GO AWAY), commerce raiders, armed freighters and probably many more. However, it was you who implied that the number of four was somehow more relevant than let's say three or five or six or nine. Which I don't really understand to be honest, I think the number of classes should be whatever is best for the game.

The argument about carriers never being removed is a bit weird, considering that there's a pretty relevant example of just such a thing happening before. One class was completely removed from the game and replaced with another one that played completely differently. There was huge outcry as fans of the said class lost their favorite thing and the gaming company refunded everything related to the said class pretty comprehensively. What makes the above example especially relevant is that it was this game, less than a year a ago. Not only did WG remove an entire class, they put massive effort into redesigning the thing, which was far, far more involved an effort compared to simply removing the class. The process started with WG admitting that there was something very wrong with the class, enough so to justify drastic and expensive measures. And I have to give kudos to them, they really did put effort into the operation and weren't afraid of changing the game completely. Unfortunately, at least according to the data we can get our hands on, the massive effort put into designing the new class did not pay off and the very problems that caused WG to act so decisively still exist. Removing carriers is not only a very real possibility when you look at the history of the game, it's also the logical thing to do at this point.

Just for ships and giggles here's a graph of fire duration in WoWS per class, together with a fun and educational quiz. There are no markings in the sectors so that nobody can possibly recognize their favorite class and provide biased answers. Here it is: a) Can you spot a class that stands out a bit much? Maybe just a tiny little bit significantly different from everyone else? Even just a fraction of standoutness? b) Can you spot two classes with heavy armor and huge hitpoint pools balanced partly by their vulnerability to fire? c) Can you spot the class whose survival rate is massively above everyone else's?

Well I wasn't the one who came up with that rule, I'm perfetly fine with for example 3 classes. Or 3 classes in one game mode and 2 in another.

They were and are definitely an important part of naval history, but I suggest you consider carefully just what kind of naval warfare WoWS has and how carriers changed the way naval warfare was conducted.

Ok we've established an unbreakable universal rule of 4 classes. Which one do we remove when submarines arrive and become the 5th?

It would be much funnier if it wasn't true and deployed on the live server.