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AndyHill

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  1. AndyHill

    It's not 8.0...

    I think the longest air torp range in the game is 8km so they don't really hit the ships in the back that much. And it makes the ships in the front want to be at the back, which again doesn't really help reduce blobbing. Probably better for the team, sure, but do you really want to be that one ship that gets spotted and shot at by all the red guns and attacked by planes? For a DD to be a torpedo threat to the blob it needs to get usually within about 10km+ or so of it. And that can only happen if the blob team's carrier doesn't prevent it from doing so. Actually I think (and I can't quantify it, but this is my gut feeling) everything needs to start at carriers proving that they can actually contribute positively to the overall design - and personally I just don't see it. The RTS carriers were bad for the game and the new ones are just different kind of bad. Being better is not really very useful until carriers cross the treshold of being "good" for the game in the first place.
  2. AndyHill

    It's not 8.0...

    The experts are still experts, relatively. If they are suffering gameplay-wise (assuming I'm right and gameplay becomes poorer in general), everyone else has it even worse. I also disagree strongly about just going quiet and not stating opinions when things go wrong, talking about stuff is the reason for this forum's existence. Also the possibility of removing the carriers entirely is a real one, if not very high probability. The main thing is that having carriers (as they are now or were before) does not make the game harder, more challenging or anything else like that, but purely less interesting and fun. Actually if I understood correctly, the torpedo spam tactic didn't get nerfed, at least very much. Which I consider a bit odd, but oh well. This is actually not true. Carriers had to wait a while before they could launch planes and they weren't as quick on the spot as the current rocket planes, but most importantly there were almost always enemy fighters to meet you halfway to your objective so you couldn't fly that far without getting shot down even if you had the speed to do so. Blobbing is not necessarily the best tactic always, but it is effective against planes and perhaps most importantly it's what people tend to do when they are constantly spotted and going alone can get you singled out. Whether or not a DD gets close enough to torpedo soup you is up to your team's CV. The stealth torping thing is actually fairly marginal, I'm not sure it's a real big problem. And yes RTS carriers were also problematic, isn't that the reason WG went to such great trouble to change things. It's not enough for the rework to be as bad as the previous iteration, it has to be much, much better to not be game-ruining, especially if WG actually manage to make the CVs more popular.
  3. AndyHill

    It's not 8.0...

    Yes but that's not the point. Without carriers you can manage your concealment to an extent. With carriers you can get spotted anytime anywhere if the carrier decides you should be. You can't make plays based on pure random and expet it to be anything other than purely random. The reason people are blobbing up more than ever comes from several factors. First of all everyone is spotted less than one minut into the game and they have to start maneuvering to dodge shells (and aircraft torpedoes). Thus the cheeky positions where people might try to make plays are hard to reach because the way there is so dangerous. Also especially DDs get spotted very early and harrassed, so they need to get back to the safety of the fleet's AAA. Since DDs are one of the most important sources of vision and now the only source of torp spotting for the team, others are reluctant to go anywhere there are no DDs. Thirdly, with the RTS carriers (which were bad enough) a relatively small blob was ok, because one or two AAA heavy ships could make attacking at least fairly expensive to the CV and thus there could be more small blobs. At least before the recent hotfix, with the modern implementation you needed enough AAA to smash the flight basically before the first strike - or at least murder enough planes to make the attack horrendously expensive - and that only works in a massive blob of ships. So I think it kind of is a logical result from the new carriers (and the RTS ones were bad enough already).
  4. AndyHill

    It's not 8.0...

    Except that this is not at all how it works. There is no "good spot" (well there are better and worse spots to gravitate towards) that is now a bad spot. Knowing a good spot and sitting there is not at all what makes a player good and the change in gameplay when there are carriers present is not about one spot becoming bad and another becoming good. Good players evaluate the team compositions at start, think what they would do if they were the enemy and what is the best way to disrupt that activity, try to assist in gathering information to actually know what's going to happen and position fluidly based on that information (and what the green team is doing). During the game opportunities usually arise and good players make moves as they notice them. Maybe a cheeky crossfire position, radar ambush or cost effective kiting / harrasment on the light flank? Keeping the enemy spotted with a DD and dropping a few fish every now and then to help with DoT damage and make the enemy show broadside to your BBs? Go for a mighty ambush with a Conq, actually shooting AP for once and then go dark when you get too much attention, reposition and start spamming again? The possibilities for doing clever things in this game are pretty much endless and almost all of it involves controlling vision and managing information. Often you have to make educated guesses and might get (un)pleasantly surprised as a result. All of this basically goes away when there are carriers in the game. The tactical richness of the game is basically reduced to "sit in a blob and shoot stuff". When you can get spotted anywhere anytime any cheeky moves that rely on concealment (and I think that is most of them) become pure luck basically. People who know the game very well are not complaining about it being different. They are not complaining because they can't adapt - the best players are the quickest to adapt anyway. They are complaining, because the adaptation results in worse gameplay. Carriers (in present form as well as previously) remove options from the game for all other classes and replace them with constant harrassment you can't do much about. That's why it's a bit frustrating to have people tell you to just "adapt", especially when it's somewhat obvious that they themselves don't really know what that even actually means. But, again, let's make it clear that stat shaming is not exactly a nice thing and especially should never be used to dismiss well grounded arguments.
  5. AndyHill

    It's not 8.0...

    Stat shaming isn't exactly an awesome thing to do, but there kind of is a point to be made. Recently there have been quite a few people stating that everyone just needs to "adapt" to the new meta and it's going to be fine. They rarely tell you exactly how and when I get curious and ponder if I should ask for advice I first check how they are actually doing and almost invariably the answer is not very well at all to begin with. Which more than likely means that they don't really have a good grasp of the situation anyway. On the contrary there have been a lot of very good veteran players who can actually see how the meta is changing and where it is going - and that's nowhere good. The RTS carriers were already bad for every other ship class and these new ones aren't much better - if any. For example for DDs the adaptation pretty much means growing up to be a big CACL or even a BB. The kind of vision control carriers provide is just devastating in a game in which concealment is a big thing. And I don't want to point fingers or anything, but in general using concealment to make moves, create crossfires and find cheeky positions is something good players tend to do and if you're not very good, you are less likely to notice changes in the meta or understand what they actually are. Also when you simply state that everyone else is doing something wrong and they just need to adapt people are going to want to know how much credibility the person making the claim has in terms of game knowledge. And if there is nothing to substantiate the clain (like actual analysis on how people should play) the only way to do that is to check out how the poster is doing in the game.
  6. AndyHill

    Select battle mode -- CV or no CV

    DDs get screwed by CA/CL and CV CA/CLs get screwed by BB and CV BBs get screwed by DD and CV Yes of course CV are just another ship class obviously nothing special there.
  7. AndyHill

    Lets face it, CVs will "never" work!

    Every other type of ship is on the same scale of concealment, mobility, firepower and durability. Extremes in any of those can be problematic (which makes talks about submarines very scary), but CVs are an entirely separate thing. They can spot anywhere anytime, strike at anyone whenever they feel like it - entirely without putting themselves into any kind of a risk. All "counterplays" are based on reducing the damage they do to you. It's almost never going to be zero, though, and most of the time the CV is practically invulnerable. The entire concept simply doesn't work in a game like WoWS where positioning and vision control is such an important aspect of the game. When carriers are in the game other ships can make plays only when the carrier momentarily allows them to. And even then it is pure luck instead of calculated risk, since the carrier can reposition its planes anywhere in a matter of seconds. The carriers' ability to mess up the gameplay for every other class is the real problem, not the amount of damage they do. And that simply can't be balanced by tweaking a few numbers.
  8. AndyHill

    Lets face it, CVs will "never" work!

    First of all, the situation was bad with RTS carriers as well. Action carriers being no better or just a little better is a bad thing in itself. Anyway, earlier there were several different cases as far as DDs and carrier spotting were concerned: No carriers - everything is fine, enjoy the game people. The carriers are evenly matched - they wrestle in the middle with fighters and there are openings for you to maneuver even though it is much harder to make moves. One carrier dominates - The dominating carrier's team has freedom to operate while the other team is completely screwed. Nowadays it's often the worst case scenario for everyone in every match, since carriers can't stop each other from doing what they want. They can also launch super fast planes right at the start of the match, they will find, spot and attack any DDs before they get anywhere near caps. And with unlimited planes you can just charge in, find and attack the DDs even when they are within flak bubbles.
  9. AndyHill

    Lets face it, CVs will "never" work!

    Distances are smaller, but if you discount the Glorious incident and the Samar debacle (which was escort carriers on ground support mission), what was the closest range in terms of effective gun ranges a major surface combatant ever got to a fleet carrier? Carriers did attack gun ships and gun ships fought other gun ships, but virtually never at the same time, it was either or. WoWS doesn't even really try to be a realistic game, so arguments about realism and historicity need to come with gameplay related arguments. However, WoWS does try to resemble reality and it kind of needs to make sense in general. Since carriers and surface ships never really engaged enemy combatants at the same time that's just not really historical and the OP of this thread quite rightly concluded that there's no way to fit carriers and surface ships into a same game so that the former still bears some resemblance to reality and the latter is anything but a target.
  10. AndyHill

    Lets face it, CVs will "never" work!

    Actually carriers are kind of misplaced. There were very few special cases in WW2 when carriers and surface ships engaged at the same time. Usually surface ships could only approach to within shooting distance at night, when planes couldn't slaughter them way before that point.
  11. AndyHill

    Lets face it, CVs will "never" work!

    People (rightfully) complaining about RTS carriers being bonkers OP and game ruining never asked for a slightly different (and not necessarily less bad) version of the same problem. To be considered successful, the new system would have to be enormously better than the previous one, the question of which one is slightly better or worse is pointless. And it's not something that can be fixed by tweaking numbers; the constant spotting is already making battles more campy with everyone blobbing in one big lemming train station that doesn't even really move anywhere. The only really interesting suggestion I've read was about making plane spots appear only on the minimap. It would still make bold and interesting plays less likely to succeed, but together with reduced striking power that might at least help. Of course I also quite like the idea of a "no carriers" -checkbox in the matchmaker.
  12. AndyHill

    Lets face it, CVs will "never" work!

    Here's the recipe for perfecting carriers in WoWS: First figure out the sailing the ship while flying the planes thing, also allow us to use the ship consumables as we see fit. Then make the carriers insanely powerful so that they can make epic attacks and mow down surface ships left and right while having lots of fun (preferably with special effects that would make Michael Bay jealous). Just like the submarines. In PvE only.
  13. AndyHill

    Thank you for your Hard work wg!!

    I don't think the problem is really the different gameplay, I think it's more about the basic concept of carriers. In reality they revolutionized naval warfare and basically made every other type of ship either an escort or target practise. WoWS isn't exactly a realistic game but I doubt there's a big enough a shoehorn anywhere to fit carriers into the game without breaking either the game itself or any form of connection or link to actual naval combat it still has.
  14. AndyHill

    Thank you for your Hard work wg!!

    No.
  15. AndyHill

    PSA: Tier IX Discounts

    Funny thing is that although you don't get any extra from the clan buildings if you buy ships during sales like this (and the discount for lower tier ships is usually 30-50%, much better than what the clan building can do), try selling the ships after the sale is over and see what happens.
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