Doolio

Well, personally, I don't have anything about pub napkin ships - as long as they are "normal". I mean, if I look at WoT, everybody and their mother complains about "paper tanks" whenever a tank that's not a T-34 gets introduced I think the whole "paper" notion has been blown out of proportions a bit. There are no winged tanks and Ratte's in WoT. And even the napkin tanks are, well, viable - for the lack of a better term. Viable as in, they don't make the game bad or stand out in any way. In other words, I have yet to see the dreaded mythical "paper monstrocity" that everybody's afraid of (though I haven't played WoWp, so I wouldn't know the strange inhabitants there, if there are any) edit: omg, that IS tog of the sea But I kinda want it in the game now Maybe I wouldn't play with it, but hey, the more the merrier, asymmetric paradise

A t8 premium BB, but fuso-ish, not tirpitz-ish, gameplay-wise. Not bundled, of course. [wg, don't read this] Nevertheless, I would probably go weak and buy it even if it was bundled, as the very notion of it kinda trumps all other reason in my poor brain [/wg, don't read this]

Well, in my case, I am not feeling secure even though I know what happened. Case in point - blizzard's recent mega-sweep of maphack users, which yielded bunch of false positives by their "mod seeker" or whatever the program is called AND also bunch of wrongly banned people based on enough reports from players. Map hack essentially, well, told people in the game (HotS is the game in question) where the opponents are at any given moment. And blizzard, in their vengeful sweep, screwed over bunch of people (I am not assuming that, they apologized later and added some premium time to those who they later found not guilty and also did a full damage control with posts like "small number of false positives" etc and a lot of people remained permabanned with hundreds and thousands of dollars and euros on their accounts, they essentially ended up as a colateral damage). Why have they messed up so gloriously? Two things - first, their program who combed for the maphack was using the inaccurate scripts to do so (I am not much of an IT dude, but you know what I mean), so people with specific drivers for sound cards or with some proc-motherboard combination were detected. Second, their other part of the sweep, the human-reviewed reports also messed up, because the reviews - probably due to being so many reports to handle - were handed poorly. So, people got permabanned for playing well - most prominent examples: you are invisible if you are in bushes. somebody shoots at you with a skill shot (non targeted ability, able to blind-shot around with), you report them. Review team concludes they were using map hack. Truth was, that even the mediocre players do that and do it with more or less constant success, because some bushes are standard to stand in and standard to shoot at. Now, some other bushes are situational and better players can "mindgame" the conclusion that there is someone there at x point of time in the match with very decent success. People who reviewed replays and reports obviously fell short in being familiar with the meta and how exactly does it look like when someone is using a maphack compared to a skillful (or maybe even not that skillful) player. And blizzard is a "players' beloved" company, with much more, not only credit, but experience than WG. And they messed up gloriously with a cheat that's a hundred times less vague to detect than aim assist mod in WoWs. Granted, the maphack is gone, which might be the most relevant point, but it leaves a bitter taste when you know that innocent people were permabanned - and also, those who were unbanned later, were visibly anxious and fu-ked up, because they didn't know whether to continue playing, continue purchasing stuff etc. Bunch of them were lynched in forums when they opened threads about being wrongly banned - and yes, those same people were latter unbanned, but they went through the crap nevertheless - and also, they went through the crap with the blizzard (as their support answers were VERY, VERY rude - because they had the green light to demonize any complain as they believed their system was perfect). That was the first time I was actually scared (having spent quite a bit of money on the game and having fun playing it) of being banned in any game ever. And I spent the next two weeks playing on and off and sometimes avoiding guesstimating enemy's position in the fog of war, which is very fu-ked up. I mean, call me paranoid, but it wasn't only me, my friend was like "omg, I played well yesterday" and stuff like that. Of course, we didn't get banned or anything, but people were banned wrongly. By a flawed banwave. By a respected company. For a cheat much more easily recognized than an aim assist, I would assume. That's why I can't exactly take a good shot as a compliment, because I have a feeling it might actually be a liability. Probably my personality plays a role here and everyone is different, but surely you understand what I am saying. tl;dr - for me, the notion that I know I don't have the mod isn't enough, as I am not feeling secure about game companies proficiency in dealing with these things - especially with something as vague as this mod, I mean, it's not some kind of insta-aimbot or grind-bot script which would undoubtedly be extremely easy to recognize. So, the sooner the mod goes away, the better for me, in the meantime, I guess I'll try and have fun to the best of my abilities.

Well, of course that the existance of the mod is worse than the notion, because there would be no notion if there was no mod, but we are talking figuratively (or at least, the notion wouldn't be as widespread as it is now). As I am still too lacking in awareness and experience, for me personally the notion is "deadlier", as I simply wouldn't even notice if someone was using the mod at me because my perception is light years away from noticing that, I would probably be busy with having a pleasant conversation with a nearby island while wondering why is my ship not moving If they can't target the mod specifically, then indeed, they should lock the game for all mods. Lesser of two evils, I'd say. Even though I simply LOVE some mods and mods in general (I don't know how I would be able to survive not having aslain's icons, I am so used to those plump letters in silly colors... but I'd manage if I had to ). A half-half solution would be for WG to simply buy off and implement the most popular legit mods as the time goes buy. Like WoW did. They did that with several mods in WoT, but it took them a thousand years and they implemented them worse than they were when they were made by a third party (OTM mod implementation, for example). But really, if with current architecture unfair advantage mods can't be prevented - they WILL exist and they WILL be used, that is more than logical. That said, it might be for the best if they would simply disable modding in general. Very sad, but necessary.

Well, this mod messes with me, but on a whole different notion. I mean, because of the specific game mechanics (shell travel time, great skill spectrum, due to alpha/beta testers mixed with newbies etc), the mod is very hard to detect with mere observation, even when witnessing one-in-a-million performances by someone. That said, mod's infamy certainly is something that's very evident. Which basically almost screwed me over yesterday. And that notion is something I find more threatening than the mod itself, sadly I was in the fuso and an enemy aoba was about to come behind the island, some ~16km away, full broadside. So, I pre-aimed and while I was waiting, I got hit by a very mild anxiety - which is ok, that happens to everybody in similar situations - maybe we are alone at the 3pt line in basketball or whatever. But the notion that fueled it wasn't "omg there it goes citadel galore" or "what if I miss, I'll be stupid then" or whatever - but it was more along the lines of "what if I land a very good shot". Which is something entirely different and in whole thanks to the mod hype - not the mod itself, but the hype. And I feel very comfortable with hitting a 16km broadside aoba. So, instead of being hyped with joy of a potential oneshot, I was like "please wiggle" and such, I mean, if I was a more labile person, I would probably type in all chat "aoba wiggle ffs!". So, I aimed as usual, took a shot, got three citadels, devastating strike and a full hp aoba kill. And in that instant I felt the need to somehow announce that I am not using an aimbot and that he was sailing broadside etc. - which, of course, I didn't do, I am not neurotic, I am just describing a sentiment. But still, it kinda made me too aware of the whole thing and it's not extremely pleasant. On a subconscious level, who knows what happens, maybe I'll actually start to aim worse or something. Not that I am an expert marksman or a veteran player, but the sheer fame the mod has could influence me in that way without me even noticing it. So, I don't know what's worse, the mod or the notion that "there is a mod".

I for one actually welcome our blueprint overlords Of course, AS LONG as we get non-paper ships as well, but that's a given. I guess we simply look at things differently. A video game is a chance to "witness" blueprints and stuff. I don't find that bad. In the same way (not analogy, but an example of sentiment) I like to see a statue of mammoth, maybe even more than a statue of elephant. And it's not like it's fantasy-fantasy (as in some moot projects with ships with wings and ball-shaped submarines or whatever), they are, as I understand, ships that would actually be built and used at some point, but didn't get to. Like, if Yamato wasn't built because the war ended earlier, but we have the blueprints/hull or to whichever point the ship got. I wouldn't mind having that yamato in the game - if kongou or fusou were also present, of course.

You make some very good points, I completely disregarded the reaction time (the adding up of quickness of aiming). I initially thought the mod would actually more benefit the opponent as he could mess with the user by changing speed, orientation etc, which would make the shell travel time a VERY serious enemy of the mod user, as the mod is aim assist and not "seeking shells mod" But yeah, against people who don't preemptively wiggle, change speed etc, I would assume the mod is golden especially given the fact that you need a lot less time to add stuff together in your head in order to (g)uesstimate the crossair placement. Then again, don't experienced players aim almost automatically + with the added "mindgames" calculation? In other words, I'd assume that an inexperienced player would still lose magnificently to a veteran player if the new player was using the mod and the good player wasn't. And maybe even more extreme, maybe he would lose even harder if he was using the mod, because the mod would constantly feed him with current data, which veteran player could use to his advantage actually. And with veteran players, if one is using a mod, how much would it affect the outcome (as we could assume the opponent would try and be as unpredictable as possible, regardless of knowing whether the opponent is using the md)?

Yes, as far as I understood, mod calculates the lead and gives you a spot where to shoot if you were to hit the enemy ship according to his speed, rudder, distance AT THE CURRENT TIME. It gives you a leading crosshair as to where to shoot IF the ship continued to maintain plethora of variables. I am not an expert, but that seems to me like if could actually screw the mod user over, against a wiggling and speed-shifting opponent, in other words, he would be more likely to miss than not. There is a significant thing in WoWs that separates the efficiency of mods like these in WoWs and that is shell travel time, which is humongous - like 10 or 15 seconds at greater distances (where, I would assume, the aim mod would be of most help). That said, I am just thinking aloud and drawing conclusions, I don't actually have any data or access to it or experience regarding these things. But to me at least, it seems that the mod could actually be abused by the OPPONENT, more than the player using it Now, IF the opponent has no awareness and is maintaining his course, speed etc. through prolonged periods of time, then I would say it's safe to assume that the aim assist mod works wonders. But so does a regular good aim too.

You open a thread about a rhetorical question? What kind of discussion do you hope to create?

Isn't that how it works though? DD doesn't see through his smoke, but others who have clear LoS spot for the DD? In other words, both enemy and friendly smokescreens work the same way for both parties.

I didn't know that, indeed. But in that case, we already have a depot? We just need interface for it. Which is essentially having a depot and having an interface Maybe a simpler interface, but still an interface. I seem to miss what's the fuss about "complex interface" vs "simple interface", in WoT you go to depot and then see what's there and sell if necessary, it's not like you entered a new game in order to do that, it's essentially an additional tab. Which, as I see from what you are saying, would be implemented in WoWs - a tab where you can sell stuff from depot (minus ammo and that jazz, compared to WoT).

Ok, I just wanted this topic on a whim, there's no any "hard" reasons, but I can come up with two "soft and general" reasons - one, I learned a lot from these forums in this short amount of time and two, forums are, as usual, saturated with negativity, bias and projection, or as today's internet would say it - salt That said, the people who DO make helpful threads and posts are really awesome and I found a lot of things helpful. Coming from WoT and having a mentality of "inquire before venturing", I found myself comfortable in WoWs, regarding gameplay and understanding mechanics. I also watched A LOT of videos and sources, as I suffer from a severe nerve inflammation, which ensures that I don't play more than several battles a day and even have like two week pauses if it gets irritated too much. That also helped a lot in the sense that I don't ask questions that I can already find answers for and to get a general gist of the game even with very little effective experience with it. Now, all that is fine and dandy, but for a beginner, even an educational youtube video might remain moot, much like to a random person, some unattractive but good painting might seem off even after an explanation. And there the forums come into play. People really put out some good info and experience - and for someone like myself, experience is more valuable, as info I can dig for myself. Since I wasn't in beta, nor I am a warship enthusiast, I could only compare class roles to WoT - and that analogy holds to some degree. After that, it's a bit moot. And I feel that I benefited a lot from simply reading posts and getting the general feel of the classes usage. Some things aren't intuitive and forum has helped me a lot. Direct example - I got to the aoba and with both furutaka and aoba I "knew" how to "use" them mechanically, but my decision making was awful. And it still isn't great, but the bigger picture is starting to form for me gradually, so, today I had a good game in aoba, simply because I implemented some things (keeping close to two battleships, while AP-ing incoming cruisers and HE-ing resident DD's. Just a week ago I would probably go in to find that DD in the smoke and got peppered by several clevelands and NM's that were on that flank. Instead I kept my range and wittled clevelands slowly and always when a DD showed up I made sure to hit him an knock something out. All the while, making sure that I am actually in front of mine two BB's in order to detect torpedoes for them, as I can dodge them more effectively and they would benefit from it. I mean, all this sounds VERY basic to most of you, but hey, I have under 300 battles and my highest tiers are aoba and fuso, so, yeah And I had a good game and a good health pool at the end of a match too, even though the game was close. The thing about keeping your cruiser at YOUR max range I read literally today Before, it didn't cross my mind - again, it might sound funny to you, but in my defense, things like that seem intuitive only when you already know them. In the past I could be like "well, if my range is shorter than a BB's range, I might get as close as possible without getting into a secondary range - and I got torps too yay", which well, ends catastrophically, as one can assume But that's a practical example of how a single piece of experience from another player can push one's game forward visibly - for example, I was aware of that all the time and minded my range, my dpm, smoke clouds, rate of torpedo firing (this isn't my strong point as I am not very familiar with reload times on specific DD's torpedoes, so I "count" it as general as possible to see when to expect the next wave, but it still kinda works and adds to my contribution - if I go in to detect torpedoes five times and be wrong three times, I still showed torpedoes for my team two times, which is better than if I wasn't doing that at all). Now, undoubtedly I'll do stupid things over and over in the future, as I am still feeling very ambivalent about some situations and that is the hardest thing to learn (deciding on when, why, where quickly and be in the right - sometimes I am calculating for like a minute should I go from this side or from that side of an island or stay behind, only to realize that I actually don't know what are all the factors I should count in the equation and I am left without an answer). But, that's a learning process and it's ok. I think I "get" the BB's and I think I am starting to get cruisers too (at least japanese ones, I simply don't go hand in hand with omaha for example, I find her dpm distracting - still don't know if it's my capability issue or simply a taste). DD's and CV's are like ten years from being operated remotely decently by me (because I find those classes to be the hardest when it comes to decisions, strategizing, stuff like that), but ok, we'll see in time These small "revelations" made me like japanese cruisers so far (furutaka and aoba more specifically), so I eve bought the infamous atago on a yolo whim. Of course, I am keeping it in port until I get comfortable with higher tiers, so all of you t8-t10 players are safe from my noobness interfering with your games for now I do enter co-op from time to time, just to get the feel of the ship - and, well, it's kinda sluggish, but ok, I guess. But, I digress, all in all, just a random positive thread about tiny bits of wisdom that can be found in the forums, despite all the negativity. And thank you to all of you whose posts push me in the right direction (please don't look at my stats and go LOL YOU STILL SUCK LOL - I am aware of that, but you too must be aware of the fact that one can't exactly double his damage PER BATTLE or whatever even if he plays twice as good as he used to ~50 matches ago - and also, most ships are "locked in the past" - I can't raise my furutaka stats if I no longer have it, but I can try and do good in aoba and the later ships. and of course, even if I do that, those stats surely won't be stellar, but they will be stellar when it comes to the old ME ) Ok, see you in battle I guess

Wait, wouldn't unpredictable wiggling actually confuse the aimbot user, as aimbot doesn't predict actions but shows you where to shoot at that current moment? Or I misunderstood how the mod works?

But... I am looking at the smoke? Isn't smoke an indicator of engine power? Now I'm confused. I don't derp shots miles off when calculating the smoke in. And the numbers on the horizontal scale. I use all of that. What should I do? I am not trolling, I am new lol What else should I use to gauge the lead? -ship in question (lead more on a "full smoked" kongo than on a "full smoked" wyoming, lead almost double measurements, depending on distance, on a standard cruiser etc) -measurements at the reticle (I've experienced that the true numbers work for mid to long distance shots when the enemy ship is moving like ~25 knots. So on a straight line broadside full speed kongo showing me travel time of 10 secs, I'll aim at 12-14 measure mark, for example) -smoke? I mean, ship without smoke I thought is getting to a hault, ship that's starting to move, "fires smoke" ship that established full speed has "horizontal smoke" and so on and so forth. I honestly haven't discovered any contradictions with this info and my lead adjustment -minimap silhouette - sometimes at weird angles is hard to see the ship angle based on in-game graphics, so I tend to check with the minimap -ship's undertaking a manouver - If I see a ship going for a half-circle or anything, I shoot at the predicted spot, assuming he will finish it (or not if I "read" the player that way). It usually works with CA's and BB's since they can't really turn on a dime and are somewhat committed to at least some degree of a turn when they start it. -with DD's I see how they behave, if they are being obviously very aware of danger, I wait and wait and wait. If they aren't I shoot as if they were not changing course and it works - if they don't change course or change it slightly. -I shoot only full salvos, one-by-one confuses me To all present: am I doing something wrong? A serious question, as sluzidar's post confused me quite a bit, as I myself think I benefited a lot from those videos and explanations, but I can't be sure if it's some kind of placebo effect and I am just randomly getting hits/misses.

The point is that "quite frequent" needs to be defined more. I don't know what it means. Twice every match? Once in ten matches? Once every match? Which ship? Which enemy ship? What distance? Did you wiggle? Was the opponent good at aiming in general (how experienced of a player is he)? I mean, I am a noob, but I had shots like that done to people in angling battleships from miles away, I mean, I do a "fire and forget" and bunch of stuff pops on the screen. Not frequently, but maybe once in five matches if I'm driving a BB. I mean, how to gauge those things? And, the most important thing I don't understand about that exmample: It's an aim assist mod, it's not a damage hack mod. Your situation depicts that you were angled etc. which wouldn't affect aiming, only penetration. So, I thin it would be more fitting as an argument in some server-side damage multiplier hack or armor-ignoring hack or something. Your example shows that he penetrated citadels at an odd angle, why would that indicate aim-assist mod? Aim-assist doesn't give you better penetration, dispersion, damage...

At small numbers, yes. But after, say, 3000 battles, w/r is the most reliable factor. It has been discussed over and over since the dawn of time. Other stats are important to get a clearer picture, though. You are probably being confused by looking at the battle as a single entity (which it is, but not in this sense). Look at the body of 3000 battles as a single entity and you'll see why w/r is important - it incorporates all other factors (damage, skill, decisions, planning, tactics etc). That good dodge in your 563. match which made possible for you to unleash three more salvos before you died, that good choice of a flank in your 1257. battle which benefited the team etc. - those add up, bit by bit and after ENOUGH of battles, w/r shows what you did, more than other stats. Other stats clarify WHICH PLAYSTYLE you employed in reaching high w/r (you might be a low dmg tactician - take out the enemy most threatening ship in a suicidal mission and you contributed like 80% to that win, you might be a support kinda personality, who protects other ships from counters, so you are contributing to the win by making good decisions at right moment, like going back to save a cv, so your damage isn't as good but your decisions save the day etc etc etc). Naturally, a good player will have all solid marks, but their distribution might vary. The w/r is the most consistent and most "you" thing that remains. Imagine a twitch-skilled player but with not much in decision department - he might have solid damage and still be a player that contributes to losses more than wins. He might let his key ships die because he's tunneling and then duke it out for the rest of the inevitable loss and get a fair amount of damage done, because he's good at aiming, for example. So he might be a player who brings losses and has good other stats. But the point is to win the battle (without going into the "play for fun"/"play for win" debate, even in the most laid back game of football after school, you play to win WHILE having fun, you don't let other team score because that's what you consider fun, everything is geared towards your team winning and that's the goal, so don't tell me that people don't play with reaching that goal in mind or that it's over-emphasized, because it can't be by design), so that player might be a liability. So, while a w/r isn't reliable AT ALL at like ~500 games (unless it's blatantly horrible or blatantly godly), it sloooooooooooooooooooooowly but surely takes over. W/R of a guy who played 1 000 000 games, to take it to the extreme, is INCREDIBLY accurate as to how good that player is. The team factor comes in when the range of w/r is in question. That's why the worse player in the world will have like 39% wr and the best player in the world might have 77% or whatever. And that's because you can contribute only so much, as part of a larger group. That said, that's enough of a spectrum to work with. The fact that there won't be 0% wr and 100% wr players doesn't mean we can't look at the existing spectrum, it just means that the variability is smaller.

But modules tab as it is now only presents modules that are on the ship. The point is to have and store modules, not to simply sell them, selling is only one aspect. Even without overlapping modules, the feature is useful. You could, for eaxmple, strip your kongou from modules, sell it, put modules in storage, buy the kongou again when you so desire, and equip the ship with modules. The main point of the depot is to serve as storage space and that feature is applicable to wows as well.

Well, a hack made by a game creator isn't really a hack, as a creator has the power over the game. So yeah, every game has "hacks" and cheats like that, mostly for internal testing and stuff like that. But here we are saying about a third party actual hack to be exploited by players, which is nearly impossible to achieve with a server-side game like this.

Maybe as a company, but game-wise, WoT has more players than WoW, let alone HotS These are all from HotS forums

So, we are smart-sses because you were angry when you wrote a bad post? Well, sorry for replying adequately to an angry, untrue, paranoid post? I mean, ok, we all make mistakes and get angry or assume too much instead of checking facts, but that doesn't make those actions ok or without consequences - in this case, negative responses. What do you want, to be applauded for getting angry and wrong and lazy to research something? I don't get it.

I think they interpreted the depot usage wrongly. It's not there to be visited 100 times a day anyway. People in WoT LOVE the depot, for the same reason WG have described - you go in after two months, sell everything and get filthy rich in ten seconds, after you already forgot how many discarded stuff you have there. That's nothing short of an awesome feature if you ask me. I have yet to encounter a WoT player who doesn't absolutely love the depot

It doesn't sound great? Why? Rarely seen mechanics and approaches in a genre aren't welcome? Why? I doubt it would be boring. Might it be.... that you are a bit "nationalistic" and wouldn't find it fun out of non-game reasons? Hm, I thought we were all criticizing that here? Remember c&c generals? The cheesy GLA practically made that game successful (the game was good in "game" areas as well, I won't lie - not my cup of tea, but objectively speaking). Before the sjw flood, that is. I am assuming too much from your snarky one-liner, but that's all what you gave me.

The thing is, he is perceiving current victory conditions as flawed. So, I think yes, he would like for a football team to win if the opposing team had a few red cards. I mean, it's a clear analogy, look at his answer to me, he said it outright.

I wouldn't look at WG's definition of support as something "carry"-related, though. DD's can zone and scout, that's pretty support-like CA's can go places and are versatile - and they usually have good anti-air and escorting abilities, that sounds support-like too. They support the "cardio and awareness lacking main bully", which, if cherished, can oneshot people. I can see how they are deemed support classes. Because, a BB can't "answer the call" when, well, support is needed, DD's and CA's certainly can. If you are in Wyoming or something on one end of a map and you've finished the engagement and you are the winner and there are engagements on the other side, you might as well go take a walk and go afk, you aren't able to support the team (speed and the lack of specific traits and upgrades makes you essentially a blunt damage dealer and potential damage soaker and nothing more, you can't scout, can't hunt, can't switch flanks etc). To me, that looks like a main power source that needs others to do other things - ie support it so it could bestow a blessed firepower upon enemyz