Hirohito

Good points, and the advice of course has exceptions. When playing against a Black (in any DD really), getting them out of sync makes Black dramatically weaker. So much that it can often catch the Black himself overconfident (since he's used to winning off of that combo), picking fights that he shouldn't. Black relies heavily on that consumable combo, so much that with either of them down (for instance, just having smoke but no radar available), Black can pretty much turn into a "meh" destroyer with decent concealment, decent guns, and horrible torps - pretty much a bad Fletcher, and Fletcher isn't that popular these days for good reasons.

Black is absolutely monstrous as a cap contesting/zoning DD, if you have her. Just don't let your smoke and radar get out of sync, as she is much less capable when you can't use those two consumables in tandem. Good players will try to bait either a radar or smoke out of Black, and bad Black players will tend to blow them individually.

Yeah unfortunately. Sometimes its even so bad that when I see a BB being lit up by a Thunderer/Conq with multiple permafires and the target has a saturated superstructure, I decide I might as well just go an do something else in my DD, like capping or taking map control elsewhere. Which is overall a bad situation to be in, because that BB might be overextended and getting him off the board would really help the team, but I'd also be spending my time unwisely by firing HE/AP into a saturated superstructure for reduced pen damage only, so it overall makes for a lose-lose situation for me as a DD. Especially when that 40% overextended BB actually manages to get away that way because the Thunderer/Conq was unable to finish them off.

Jutland, Mogador, and a tossup of Kita/Yugumo/Benham/Fletcher for the last spots, though it really depends on what role you want to use the DD in. The best general purpose DD is Jutland, as you have a combination 5,7km concealment, good guns, hydro, heal and plenty of smokes. She is very good at zoning out enemy DDs because of that concealment, and can lend good extra pressure when it comes to a firefight. With the hydro and single launch torps, she can dominate cap areas as she stays relatively torp safe and gives early warning of torps for the team, while able to heavily damage or outright sink (radar) cruisers that get too close to the cap, even if nose in. Mogador is played mostly in open'ish areas as a "cruiser with no citadel", and supports a scouting DD as she has pretty poor concealment herself. A Mogador in a good position can farm out cruisers at range (either through speed juking, or safely from behind an island), take out enemy DDs very fast, and due to the speed is able to reposition extremely fast in case you need more firepower on another side of the map. Kita can generally provide good dpm (more than a Mogador), but relies on islands or smoke unlike the Mogador that can juke in open waters. Has generally decent concealment, but shouldn't be played up front as she is very risky to maneuver in areas that get flooded with torps (unlike Jutland), so she's also more of a supporting dpm DD (though less so than Mogador). Benham/Fletcher - if you want to run these I'd do it because the team wants to utilize the smoke. Seen so many Benhams that get picked because she has that "OP" tag associated with her, but imo she isn't OP in CBs at all, only in randoms where she can farm out potatoes with torps. Benhams problem is that she has bad guns and mediocre concealment, which makes her into a pretty iffy scouting/zoning DD (unlike a Yugumo which is also a torp boat, but has superior concealment for scouting/zoning). If you try to look past that and use her as a smoke-laying DD for friendly cruisers, she gets much more valuable. This is a role similar to Fletcher, which unlike Benham has less of an ability to flood areas with torps, but on the upside has pretty good guns. I didn't mention Black here, but she is very strong and definitely in the top 3 if you have her. The only reason for that is the smoke and radar combination paired with decent guns and concealment. Takes a good captain to use her though. Neustra can be a very solid pick due to the very good concealment, but for the purpose of a "role-based" DD she imo comes short of Jutland for the "general purpose/scouting" role (0,1 km concealment advantage only for Neustra, while offering much less capable cap contesting). Can be very deadly if you play her as a scout on a pushing flank where you don't immediately focus on cap contesting, especially with mogador/kita as backup. Still, probably the second best general purpose DD there is, but unfortunately comes slightly short because she doesn't excel at anything in particular.

One of my biggest issues with BBs firing HE (apart from those situations where it makes sense, like certain nose-in fights) is that it takes away precious fire slots from the cruisers and DDs. These ships rely on fire damage against BBs (esp. DDs and low calibre cruisers), yet when a Thunderer/Conqueror sets 2/3 fires on a particular target, the amount of supporting pressure that cruisers and DDs can help generate on the target falls through the floor. Whereas if the BB had stuck to AP, you'd now have a situation where the target would be eating both AP pens and small calibre HE setting fires, with overall much higher damage output and pressure from the team combined.

The autopilot seems capable of navigating out of these positions quite well, though be prepared to spend at least 30 seconds before you get off that place. Very annoying when you do get stuck like this, happened to me in CBs as well. Eventually got torped by a German cruiser (lol) because I wasn't going anywhere.

Don't forget the near best in class concealment at 5,6km. You can zone out a lot of DDs with that concealment, but unlike IJN DDs also back it up with guns+heal in case you do get spotted.

Lol, no. Uptiers somewhat poorly, but overall a very good ship.

Kawachi sure sucks [edited]a lot more than QE.

Well that depends. I found that certain gunboat DDs can actually be more impactful now, since on average the enemy DD has less support as well, so if you're competent at DD hunting you pretty much get your way in the 1v1s and can take it home from there.

I hated almost the entire line, and only think I bothered playing Halland 5 times or so. Not that Halland is that bad, but the line in general is pretty damn awful up until t9 and t7. I really only enjoyed Skåne when I finally got me some useable guns. Visby (t5) in particular was very crap. Several thousands less hp than the closest competitors (yeah, fun having 9k or so hp vs 14k ships, even with all heals the hp is still bad), bad guns, mediocre concealment and weak torps. I never saw the point of those DDs until T7. When you can't outspot and can't outgun enemy DDs, you are already at a very big disadvantage when trying to establish map control. Then add in less hp and no smoke as well? WG go home, you're drunk.

I thought this could be an interesting topic to discuss, as well as sharing experiences on particular ships and how they tend to perform when they are present on your team. I encourage you to share the following: Which particular ship do you think attracts really bad players, and is a ship your experience has shown that you generally don't want to have on your team? Post the ship name and a short explanation of why you dislike seeing this ship on your team before the battle starts. For me, two ships in particular stand out: Yoshino: This boat... I have no idea what it is with Yoshino, but the boat seems to attract very bad players and in a majority of cases is like playing with an extra enemy ship on your team, making it an 11v13. Yoshino players all seem to love the idea of running 20km torps, play it at max range and torping friendly ships (especially DDs), then blaming the friendly torps on the ship that ate them. Sailing broadside to launch said torps (while spotted) seems to be standard mode of Yoshino operation these days. If in a DD and I have a "friendly" Yoshino player in the game, I not only have to watch the minimap for enemy ships, position of said ships, radar ranges, concealment ranges, cap circles, enemy planes (if a CV is present), but I also have watch my back for said Yoshino torps that predictably arrive in steady intervals as long as I am anywhere near the cap. 360 degree vision and 100% situational awareness is mandatory whenever one of these guys are around on my team. Tirpitz: Tirpitz players... hoo boy. The Tirpitz is a boat I wish I had as it's so capable in the right hands. But for some reason, capable hands are never behind the wheel whenever the Tirpitz shows up in a random game. Usually one of the first ships to die 2-3 minutes into the game, as the Tirpitz captain decides that he has to rush into the cap solo to use the torps and secondaries as soon as possible. Might as well play with one ship less at that point. The only upside is if the Tirpitz is on the enemy team - if I am armed with torps, there is a surprisingly good chance that I can launch both torp sets directly on the indicator without second thought of where he might maneuver, because the Tirpitz captain usually prefers sailing in a straight line for most of the game. Seeing one Tirpitz on my team often means my team will be at an early disadvantage, but two or more Tirpitzes? Hoo boy, this is gonna be a rough match.

That sure looks like for fun for the cruisers...

I lucked out and got the corporation tokens from the first (15.000) and third (2000) random bundles for battle points. After that I just spammed 5-6 games, bought the remaining 3 tokens for silver and FXP, and got the Akizuki camo I planned on getting. Was overall quite fun, but I think the balance is kind of out the window for this mode and the rewards (if unlucky on bundles) rather lackluster so I probably won't play it anymore as getting a second camo will take forever after my initial luck. My main gripes with the balance is how the BBs just seem to be near impossible to take down in a 1v1 pvp fight if they run the right setup, and how DDs are often quite bad at pvp, excellent at pve dpm, but very vulnerable to the Aurora and her minions where you would want to utilize that pve dpm. The single t9 cruiser is similarly bad at pve, but great at pvp if it runs the mortars and otherwise just designed as a griefing ship against players, while no t10 cruiser exists for some reason. The Aurora is also kinda pointless to take out, as even if you do kill it (very hard in a random div), you get 15000 battle points which is way overkill compared to the effort it takes to take her down (15k split on 3 ships in a div is 5k each which is also the cap, and you can reach that cap from other monsters and killing players a lot easier).

Oh god, so much yes. If on the enemy team, torp one to two ship lengths ahead of him when you see him - he will stop, he will smoke, and he will be sitting broadside there until your torps arrive. If on your team, take out your stopwatch and see if the guy can set a new record for "fastest early death".

In my opening post, I stated which ship tends to be captained by particularly bad players. Every ship is decent in capable hands, but some ships tend to be picked by the uncapable a lot more than by the capable.

Ah, that one. I generally dislike that cap, because while you cannot ignore the cap (leaving it alone outright to be capped for free), it's generally a bad idea for anything but a DD (in a 3 DD+ game, no CV) to ever commit to fighting over that cap. This causes some lose-lose situations for both teams if one of the teams commit there, as a single DD who does go there will outright lose to several DDs, cruisers and BBs pushing it. While the team that commits does win a cap that way, they also take a large portion of their ships out of the fight, creating that lose-lose situation. A really dumb map if there ever was any.

I generally agree, but in the context of random battles, "flank + flank" generally tends to become a balanced front, as the cruisers set up shop at a spot covering A+B or B+C, and some straggling BBs headed for the flanks still have shots into B as they huddle along on their merry path. The only time flank + flank really becomes a problem is when the morons all queue up to push the 1-2-3 and 8-9-10 lines at the same time, which fortunately hasn't happened too often for me (you often see some doing it to be fair, but rarely the entire team).

Hush now, that's just mean. Had so many teams choosing the lemming route on CZA for A/B, and it works terribly each time. Usually the friendly ships bunch up in a ball near one of the slanted islands (you are 6 vs 3 god dammit, what are you doing!?), and eat multiple torp hits from a single DD that happened to play the 2 line. Then they rage at everyone else (but them) being bad, before the push collapses, they get massively surrounded and the game is lost 2 minutes later.

Mid June, says so on the "coupons" section ingame.

This right here. Have seen so many lemming trains going to C, and it usually always fails. Once they secure C, they have a real problem trying to grab A, as they have given up so much map space for crossfires into C or the C-side of B. Capping B from a lemming train at C is a fool's errand. Usually the DDs get blocked there (and get not vision behind that island, and no torp angles to speak of), while cruisers and BBs get farmed by HE over the island. In general, the C side suffers the vision war and its so easy to spot stuff in C, but generally hard to spot stuff from C due to all the obstructions in the way.

I disagree that an A/B strategy is an A+ strategy though. I mean, it can work with a competent team, but still is a bad idea in a near majority of cases. The problem is the parts of the team that sits at both A and B. A has a problem, since when pushing hard onto one half of the map, once they win that flank about half the team is out of position to be influential. Had a situation like that yesterday, where even though we won A cap, the BBs in particular had to spend a long time traveling over to B to be useful (as they would have to shoot targets in C from B, as opposed to being able to shoot targets from A trying to contest B). The other problem is the team that grabs B. B has a problem in that the enemy fleet creates nasty crossfires from the retreating A flank, as well as fire from C flank and any ships that push beyond C flank - potentially a 270 degree crossfire. They also lack support from A, and often get picked off by the time A flank arrives to reinforce B. Regardless of whether you are in a BB, Cruiser or DD, going solo to C cap can be of immense value. As a DD for instance, I try to zone out the enemy DD from being able to push freely into our half of the map, kiting away but letting the enemy DD know that there is a ship in front of him and that he better be careful. I follow this up with some random torps, that are more for sending a strong signal to the enemy team that "this is unsafe territory, be careful". All the time trying to keep track of their C flank push through spotting and staying alive (the enemy DD pushing up is the biggest threat). In a BB/Cruisers, you similarly can turn away early and slowly start to kite back to your team, staying at a healthy range, angling/evading shots and managing cooldowns to stay alive. It generally makes the pushing team a lot more wary, and in case they fail to take the message, often causes a lot of morons to overextend into a crossfire trying to kill off that kiting BB (me).

Still a bad idea to outright give up the cap from the start though. You give away a free cap if any lone DD decides to take it, and you don't grab enough map space for your team, often ending in crossfires and lack of vision.

Another one from me: Paolo Emilio: The DD for people who want huge damage numbers fast, but generally don't know how to play the DD role at all. My experience is that there are basically three types of Paolo Emilio players, the first two being the most common. Type 1: The "I'm gonna rush whatever is in front of me and be awesome, just like they do on Youtube". Reality: Fails completely as he gets detected by an enemy DD, hydro and/or radar on the way, or the enemy sees it coming from 10 kms and evades the torps. Paolo Emilio dies horribly with few or no damage dealt, having wasted a DD slot on my team and usually allowing our flank to fall fast and possibly costing us the game. Type 2: The "I'm good at this yolo-playstyle, I'm gonna make sure I pull it off yet again and be awesome". Reality: Manages to avoid the enemy DD/hydro/radar and torps the enemy BB. Has not thought about the "what now?"-part when successful, and promptly gets shot up by 3 angry red ships after his successful yolo run, again wasting a DD slot on our team. Type 3: The "I'm not gonna do dumb yolo plays at the cost of my ship". Stays patient for the most part, but overall lacks impact on the game as the concealment and gun dpm is too bad to take map control from the enemy DD. Can occasionally tilt the game with a well-planned yolo rush, but more often than not, fails to make a strong impact in the game when the enemy denies such opportunities.

Depends, are you a DD or cruiser main? If comfy in DDs, Marceau and Neustrashimy are both very good picks that can perform far above the average, but are near polar opposites in playstyle. If you prefer torp boats, Neustrashimy has amazing concealment, good torps and a very strong heal to help survive encounters that it shouldn't. Weak guns (in terms of dpm, not shell performance), but you can actually fight other DDs to some extent because the boat has that stupid strong heal. Marceau has ridiculous dpm but generally bad concealment, and requires you to be comfy with open water gunboating where you juke incoming fire to stay alive. Yoshino I absolutely despise, as it tends to be captained by complete morons who sit 20kms away to throw torps onto friendly ships and farm fires. Generally not an influential ship from my experiences (regardless of which team they are on).