Deamon93

Torpedoes were removed, except in Tirpitz. They may or may not have them, who knows. Don't trust too much datamining, a lot of things were present in the folders but not yet available. There are a lot of examples for that. Usually WG released info in advance before the line is officially out. When that will happen who knows.

There's info on "Stalin's Ocean Going Fleet". Here's a link

They had a fair number of projects before WWII started, they may use those.

Germany wasn't exactly known for their cruisers and the Kaiserliche Marine hadn't enough designs to cover the line and save the day. On the other hand the BB line will be made primarily of ships from the glorious WWI days and, perhaps, WG will add the BCs which can have a line entirely made of WWI designs without the sillyness of the O-class(which indeed is pretty much an oversized German cruiser but a bit faster) Bayern should be pitted against QE so she's a tier VI, with the others bumped down by a tier and with Helgoland axed(since WG decided not to have tier II dreads a whole generation of early designs had to be axed). Above Bayern you can go for late WWI projects(there are some) and from VIII to X you can Bismarck, Bismarck XL(aka H-39) and Bismarck XXL(aka H-41). In case H-41 doesn't fit well against the current tier Xs WG can go for the XXXL(aka H-42) but we shall see.

BATTLESHIPS Tier III US: South Carolina Japan: Kawachi Italy: Cuniberti 1902 Primary armament: US: 4x2 305/45(8 guns on broadside), 2 rpm Japan: 6x2 305/50(8 guns on broadside), 1.8 rpm Italy: //(either the 12"/40 with RoF buff or the 12"/46 M1909) Secondary armament: US: 22x1 or 20x1 76/50(11 or 10 guns on broadside), 10 rpm Japan: 4x1 80/40(2 on broadside), 12 rpm; 8x1 120/40(4 guns on broadside), 12 rpm; 10x1 152/45(5 on broadside), 6 rpm Italy: 12x1 76/40(6 guns on broadside), 15 rpm(source) (the number can easily be improved since the second iteration of the Regina Elena-class had 24 guns) Protection(maximum thickness): US: 305 mm(citadel), 51 mm(deck) Japan: 305 mm(citadel), 31 mm(deck) Italy: 305 mm(citadel), //(deck) (still need to find it) Installed power: US: 16000 or 17600 hp Japan: 22500 or 27300 hp Italy: //(still need to find it) Speed: US: 15.8 or 18 knots Japan: 18.4 or 20 knots Italy: //(possibly between 20 and 22 knots, comparable to Regina Elena which was supposed to replace in Cuniberti's idea) Tier IV US: Wyoming Japan: Myogi Italy: Conte di Cavour, Caio Duilio Primary armament: US: 6x2 305/50(12 guns on broadside), 2 rpm Japan: 3x2 356/45(6 guns on broadside), 1.8 rpm Italy: -Conte di Cavour: 2x2 plus 3x3 305/46(13 guns on broadside), 2 rpm(source) -Caio Duilio: 2x2 plus 3x3 305/46(13 guns on broadside), 2 rpm(source) Secondary armament: US: 16x1 or 6x1 127/51(8 or 3 guns on broadside), 8.6 rpm Japan: 6x1 or 4x1 80/40(3 or 2 on broadside), 12 rpm or 6x1 120/40(3 on broadside), 10 rpm; 16x1 152/50(8 guns on broadside), 6 rpm; Italy: -Conte di Cavour: 18x1 120/50(9 guns on broadside), rpm unknown(source), 13x1 76/50(above the primary armament turrets), 10 rpm(source) -Caio Duilio: 16x1 152/45(8 guns on broadside), 6/7 rpm(source) (it's the most likely gun since in the Italian page of navweaps the gun isn't listed), 13x1 76/50(above the primary armament turrets), 10 rpm(source) Protection(maximum thickness): US: 305 mm(citadel), 51 mm(deck) Japan: 203 mm(citadel), 25 mm(deck)(A/B), 70 mm(deck)© Italy: -Conte di Cavour: 250 mm(citadel), 40 mm(deck) -Caio Duilio: 250 mm(citadel), 40 mm(deck) Installed power: US: 24000 or 28000 hp Japan: 68250 or 77000 hp Italy: -Conte di Cavour: 31000 hp -Caio Duilio: 30000 hp Speed: US: 18 or 20.5 knots Japan: 24.4 or 28 knots Italy: -Conte di Cavour: 21.5 knots -Caio Duilio: 21 knots Tier V US: New York Japan: Kongo Italy: Conte di Cavour, Caio Duilio Primary armament: US: 5x2 356/45(10 guns on broadside), 1.8 rpm Japan: 4x2 356/45(6 guns on broadside), 1.8 rpm Italy: -Conte di Cavour: 2x2 plus 2x3 320/44(10 guns on broadside), 2 rpm(source) -Caio Duilio: 2x2 plus 2x3 320/44(10 guns on broadside), 2 rpm(source) Secondary armament: US: 16x1 or 6x1 127/51(8 or 3 guns on broadside), 8.6 rpm Japan: 4x1 80/40(2 on broadside), 17.1 rpm or 4x2 127/40(4 on broadside), 12 rpm; 16x1 or 14x1 152/50(8 or 7 guns on broadside), 6 rpm; Italy: -Conte di Cavour: 6x2 120/50(6 guns on broadside), 6/7 rpm(source) plus 6x2 100/47(6 guns on broadside), 10 rpm(source) or 6x2 135/45(6 guns on broadside), 6/7 rpm(source) -Caio Duilio: 4x3 135/45(6 guns on broadside), 6/7 rpm(source), 10x1 90/50(5 guns on broadside), 12 rpm(source) Protection(maximum thickness): US: 305 mm(citadel), 44 mm(deck)(A), 89 mm(deck)(B) Japan: 203 mm(citadel), 38 mm(deck)(A), 120 mm(deck)(B/C) Italy: -Conte di Cavour: 250 mm(citadel), 100 mm(deck) -Caio Duilio: 250 mm(citadel), 100 mm(deck) Installed power: US: 27000 or 28100 hp Japan: 75000 or 136000 hp Italy: -Conte di Cavour: 75000 hp -Caio Duilio: 75000 hp Speed: US: 18.4 or 21 knots Japan: 24.9 or 30 knots Italy: -Conte di Cavour: 27/28 knots -Caio Duilio: 26 knots [WORK IN PROGRESS]

Tier VI US: Cleveland Japan: Aoba Germany: Nurnberg Italy: -Montecuccoli/d'Aosta(temporary) -degli Abruzzi(temporary) Primary armament: US: 4x3 152/47(12 guns on broadside), 6 or 7.5 rpm Japan: 3x2 203/50(6 guns on broadside), 5.5 rpm Germany: 3x3 150/60(9 guns on broadside), 10 rpm Italy: -Montecuccoli: 4x2 152/53(8 guns on broadside), 8 rpm(source) -d'Aosta: 4x2 152/53(8 guns on broadside), 8 rpm(source) -degli Abruzzi: 2x2 plus 2x3 152/55(10 guns on broadside), 4-5 rpm(source) Secondary armament: US: 6x2 127/38(8 guns on broadside), 10 rpm Japan: 4x1 120/40(2 guns on broadside), 10 rpm Germany: 4x2 88/76(4 guns on broadside), 15 rpm Italy: -Montecuccoli: 3x2 100/47(4 guns on broadside), 10 rpm(source) -d'Aosta: 3x2 100/47(4 guns on broadside), 10 rpm(source) -degli Abruzzi: 4x2 100/47(4 guns on broadside), 10 rpm(source), plus 2x1 100/47(1 gun on broadside) if the torpedo armament is removed Torpedo armament: US: // Japan: 2x4 610 mm(4 on broadside), 102 s reload time Germany: 4x3 533 mm(6 on broadside), 68 s reload time Italy: -Montecuccoli: 2x2 533 mm(2 on broadside) -d'Aosta: 2x3 533 mm(3 on broadside) -degli Abruzzi: 2x3 533 mm(3 on broadside) Protection(maximum thickness): US: 127 mm(citadel), 51 mm(deck) Japan: 76 mm(citadel), 48 mm(deck) Germany: 50 mm(citadel), 20 mm(deck) Italy: -Montecuccoli: 85 mm(citadel), 30 mm(deck) -d'Aosta: 105 mm(citadel), 35 mm(deck) -degli Abruzzi: 130 mm(citadel), 55 mm(deck) Installed power: US: 100000 hp Japan: 102000 hp Germany: 60000 hp Italy: -Montecuccoli: 106000 hp -d'Aosta: 110000 hp -degli Abruzzi: 100000 hp Speed: US: 32.5 knots Japan: 35 knots Germany: 32 knots Italy: -Montecuccoli: 36.5 knots -d'Aosta: 37 knots -degli Abruzzi: 34 knots Tier VII US: Pensacola Japan: Myoko Germany: Yorck Italy: -degli Abruzzi(temporary) -Trento/Bolzano Primary armament: US: 2x2 plus 2x3 203/50 or 203/55(10 guns on broadside), 4 rpm Japan: 5x2 203/50(10 guns on broadside), 4.3 rpm Germany: 4x2 210/45(8 guns on broadside), 4.5 rpm Italy: -degli Abruzzi: 2x2 plus 2x3 152/55(10 guns on broadside), 4-5 rpm(source) -Trento: 4x2 203/50(8 guns on broadside): 3.4 rpm(source) -Bolzano: 4x2 203/53(8 guns on broadside): 3.8 rpm(source) Secondary armament: US: 8x1 127/25(4 on broadside), 14.8 rpm Japan: 4x2 127/40(4 guns on broadside), 8 rpm Germany: 4x2 88/76(4 guns on broadside), 15 rpm; 4x2 105/65(4 guns on broadside), 17.9 rpm Italy: -degli Abruzzi: 4x2 100/47(4 guns on broadside), 10 rpm(source), plus 2x1 100/47(1 gun on broadside) if the torpedo armament is removed -Trento: 8x2 or 6x2 100/47(8 or 6 guns on broadside), 10 rpm(source) -Bolzano: 8x2 or 6x2 100/47(8 or 6 guns on broadside), 10 rpm(source) Torpedo armament: US: // Japan: 2x3 or 4x3 610 mm(3 or 6 on broadside), 68 s or 74 s reload time Germany: 4x3 533 mm(6 on broadside), 68 s reload time Italy: -degli Abruzzi: 2x3 533 mm(3 on broadside) -Trento: 4x2 533 mm(4 on broadside) Protection(maximum thickness): US: 102 mm(citadel), 38 mm(deck) Japan: 102 mm(citadel), 35 mm(deck) Germany: 80 mm(citadel), 30 mm(deck) Italy: -degli Abruzzi: 130 mm(citadel), 55 mm(deck) -Trento: 70 mm(citadel), 50 mm(deck) -Bolzano: 70 mm(citadel), 50 mm(deck) Installed power: US: 107000 hp Japan: 132000 hp Germany: 80000 hp Italy: -degli Abruzzi: 100000 hp -Trento: 120000 hp -Bolzano: 150000 hp Speed: US: 32.5 knots Japan: 35 knots Germany: 32 knots Italy: -degli Abruzzi: 34 knots -Trento: 34 knots -Bolzano: 36 knots Tier VIII US: New Orleans Japan: Mogami Germany: Admiral Hipper Italy: Zara Primary armament: US: 3x3 203/55(9 guns on broadside), 4 or 4.3 rpm Japan:5x3 155/60(15 guns on broadside), 6 rpm; 5x2 203/50(10 guns on broadside), 4 rpm Germany: 4x2 203/60(8 guns on broadside), 4.6 rpm Italy : 4x2 203/53(8 guns on broadside): 3.8 rpm(source) Secondary armament: US: 8x1 127/25(4 on broadside), 13.3 rpm Japan: 4x2 127/40(4 guns on broadside), 12 or 8 rpm Germany: 4x2 105/65(4 guns on broadside), 17.9 rpm Italy: 8x2 or 6x2 100/47(8 or 6 guns on broadside), 10 rpm(source) Torpedo armament: US: // Japan: 4x4 610 mm(8 on broadside), 109 s reload time Germany: 4x3 533 mm(6 on broadside), 68 s reload time Italy: // Protection(maximum thickness): US: 127 mm(citadel), 83 mm(deck) Japan: 140 mm(citadel), 35 mm(deck) Germany: 80 mm(citadel), 30 mm(deck) Italy: 150 mm(citadel), 90 mm(deck) Installed power: US: 107000 hp Japan: 152000 hp Germany: 110000 hp Italy: 95000 hp Speed: US: 32.5 knots Japan: 34.5 knots Germany: 32 knots Italy: 32 knots Tier IX US: Baltimore Japan: Ibuki Germany: Roon Italy: Ansaldo cruiser for Spain Primary armament: US: 3x3 203/55(9 guns on broadside), 4 or 4.6 rpm Japan: 5x2 203/50(10 guns on broadside), 4 rpm Germany: 3x3 203/60(9 guns on broadside), 4.6 or 6 rpm Italy: 4x3 152/55(12 guns on broadside), 4-5 rpm(source); 4x2 or 3x3 203/53(8 or 9 guns on broadside), 3.8 rpm(source) Secondary armament: US: 6x2 127/38(8 guns on broadside), 10 rpm Japan: 4x2 127/40(4 guns on broadside), 8 rpm Germany: 6x2 105/65(6 guns on broadside), 17.9 rpm plus 4x1 plus 1x2 150/55(4 guns on broadside), 8 rpm Italy: 12x1 or 6x2 90/50(6 guns on broadside), 12 rpm(source) Torpedo armament: US: // Japan: 4x4 610 mm(8 on broadside), 109 s or 120 s reload time Germany: 2x4 533 mm(4 on broadside), 90 s reload time Italy: 2x4 533 mm(4 on broadside) Protection(maximum thickness): US: 152 mm(citadel), 65 mm(deck) Japan: 140 mm(citadel), 51 mm(deck) Germany: 100 mm(citadel), 50 mm(deck) Italy: 150 mm(citadel), 95 mm(deck) Installed power: US: 120000 hp Japan: 152000 hp Germany: 155000 hp Italy: 200000 hp Speed: US: 32.5 knots Japan: 35 knots Germany: 32.5 knots Italy: 37 knots Tier X US: Des Moines Japan: Zao Germany: Hindenburg Italy: Ansaldo cruiser for Russia Primary armament: US: 3x3 203/55(9 guns on broadside), 10 rpm Japan: 4x3 203/50(12 guns on broadside), 4.4 rpm Germany: 4x3 203/60(12 guns on broadside), 6 rpm Italy: //(possibly a modernized 10"/45 M1908 or something similar) Secondary armament: US: 6x2 127/38(8 guns on broadside), 10 rpm Japan: 6x2 100/65(6 guns on broadside), 20 rpm Germany: 8x2 105/65(6 guns on broadside), 17.9 rpm Italy: Possibly 6x2 135/45(6 guns on broadside), 6/7 rpm(source) plus 6x2 90/50(6 guns on broadside), 12 rpm(source) Torpedo armament: US: // Japan: 4x5 610 mm(10 on broadside), 141 s reload time Germany: 4x4 533 mm(4 on broadside), 90 s reload time Italy: 2x3 533 mm(3 on broadside), possibly upgradeable to 2x4 533 mm(4 on broadside) Protection(maximum thickness): US: 152 mm(citadel), 90 mm(deck) Japan: 152 mm(citadel), 55 mm(deck) Germany: 110 mm(citadel), 60 mm(deck) Italy: //(have to find the data on it) Installed power: US: 120000 hp Japan: 159000 hp Germany: 155000 hp Italy: 240000 hp Speed: US: 33 knots Japan: 34.5 knots Germany: 31.5 knots Italy: 37 knots

Not exactly: she wouldn't be that OP at tier V with all things considered. In the comparison I haven't seen something which would make her evidently OP at that tier(not like Leone which with her primary armament may be a bit too strong as an anti DD DD )

Here are some things per class DD: 1)Spica is complicated since she was just a torpedo boat. If implemented I think she would be premium since it doesn't make any sense for her to be part of the line. 2)Sella and Sauro had very marginal differences(only the torpedo tubes, that's about it). I would rather have a mix of the two(all the Sauro-class ships were lost early in the war so they never saw war time refits while the Sella-class had only twin torpedo tubes instead of triples) 3)The Dardo-class had two iterations but the differences, if present, are barely noticeable. I wouldn't split the two since they don't offer anything more 4)Oriani wasn't that different from Maestrale(the only upgrade was a more powerful machinery). I would rather "salvage" the class to give to the Maestrale-class the 48000 hp engine) 5)With Soldati do you consider the class as a whole(ie both iterations)? Because, while historically the Soldati II were just an iteration of Soldati I, it was meant to be different(and enough so to be a stand alone). 6)Navigatori is way overtiered. Granted she has 6x120/50 but is way inferior to Medaglie d'Oro in pretty much every aspect but speed(which, considering there are already 35 knots DDs at that tier, isn't exactly a big deal). 7)Capitani Romani is more linked to destroyers rather than cruisers. She is quite similar to the Russian tier X so I don't see why she should end up somewhere else. CL: 1)Nino Bixio is better than Quarto only because of better primary armament layout, other than that she is equivalent or worse(her machinery was inferior). I think Quarto required Bixio as upgrade to give her some more umph(3x120 mm guns for a cruiser at tier II is bad, 5x120 mm is at least good enough). 2)Capitani Romani: see note (7) for the DDs 3)Splitting the Condottieri-class may prove problematic since they are quite similar between one another. While I was in the mountains I was thinking about how to fix that mess and I thought: -"axe" Montecuccoli and use her as premium as she was after the Armistice(ie with the Oerlikons etc) -Use the CLAA refit for the Da Giussano-class as premium, leaving Cadorna in the line CA: 1)At the moment there aren't armored cruisers ingame so placing them is fairly hard. I tried as well in case it's required but, until it's clear if they will show up, I would leave them aside. BB: 1)Dante Alighieri can potentially be OP at tier III due to the combination of being more armed(with 4 more guns on broadside) plus being faster(almost 23 knots against 21 and 18). Sure she is less protected but with all considered does it matter all that much? Personally I think she could easily be a fun premium, which is plausible considering how well Nikolai does(ie a design which is quite similar) 2)There were studies before Littorio, they are just a bit obscure due to the fact they were short lived. They would need some fiction(ie what-if refits for AA and such) but the core is quite historical(Littorio is just a bigger version). CV: 1)The conversion of Caracciolo was from what I remember just a seaplane tender(I have to check from my book though) so she isn't fit to be there 2)The Littorio-conversion was able to carry around 60 planes with fixed wings so, theoretically, she should be able to fit between 70 and 80 planes with folded wings(considering the proportion in Aquila). That amount of planes is good enough, especially in case the fighter/bomber idea gets the stamp of approval. Moreover she is protected(her level of protection was exactly the same of her BB sisters) and has enough room for a bunch of 6x20/65 mounts(the guns is meh but she may well have 200+ of them considering Aquila had 132 and she is smaller). Premium: 1)Rossarol wasn't a Poerio-class, was a modified German DD 2)I wouldn't add UP.90, UP.102 and UP.770 yet, simply because it's not clear where similar designs(ie Deutschland&co) should go. When that's written in marble I would consider them, even in the main line if that's possible(some more beef doesn't hurt). Navigatori was meant to hunt other DDs, just like Leone before her. They are DDs but of a different kind and feeling so placing them so high up would "ruin" what makes them different(btw Leone is missing, just noticed)

Most likely, then again we have to wait for the cruiser line(which should come SOON™)

Talking about immunity of a ship too big to even be constructed to begin with is a bit pointless in my opinion. H-39 was the largest Germany was able to build in a somewhat reasonable time(she was supposed to be completed by 1944 I believe). To even build the monstrocities Hitler ordered Germany would have required a long and calm peace to build up the infrastructure for decades and then start the construction. It would have taken too much time, money and resources away from everything else.

Ships have much more complicatef controls than that. Besides you just need to press S twice to halt the engine and one more to invert(reducing the time required to stop). It isn't that complicated

The largest would be H-42 if H-41 won't suffice as tier X. All the others won't be considered because they are too big.

You're welcome! Glad to help

Do not put too much faith into datamining: many things appeared in that obscure reign without being implemented ingame(yet). Anyway the Kaiserliche Marine can go up to tier VII with the proper BBs while with the BCs she can go up to tier X(with what-if elements, just like in case of Amagi). There aren't that many ships from the Kriegsmarine to "steal" slots and what they have should start from around VII(depends on how WG balances Scharnhorst). There's a thread in NA from a guy who's making a fan made German tree and I saw a similar project in EU. Sadly I can't find you the EU one as easily. Here is the NA one.

Haven't noticed . I'll edit right away! Most likely i effed up due to the fact I copy/paste to speed things up and it slipped the first check. Knowing iI can make mistake I "use" you people for these kind of errors . In any case I decided to tier down the Condottieri and see how they do in parallel to how I placed originally the line. The main reason is because Bari&co would be a bit worse than Karlsruhe which already isn't the strongest tier IV. I still have to see what's best but we'll see.

CRUISERS Tier I US: Erie Japan: Hashidate Russia: Orlan Germany: Hermelin Italy: Eritrea Primary armament: US: 4x1 127/51(4 on broadside), 12 rpm; 4x1 152/47(4 on broadside), 8.6 rpm Japan: 2x2 120/45(4 on broadside), 10 or 11 rpm Russia: 2x2 130/50(4 on broadside), 12 rpm Germany: 2x2 128/61(4 on broadside), 12 or 15 rpm Italy: 2x2 120/45(4 on broadside), 7 rpm(source) Secondary armament: US: // Japan: // Russia: // Germany: // Italy: // Torpedo armament: US: // Japan: // Russia: // Germany: // Italy: // Protection(maximum thickness): US: 88 mm(citadel), 32 mm(deck) Japan: 30 mm(citadel), 10 mm(deck) Russia: 10 mm(citadel), 10 mm(deck) Germany: 35 mm(citadel), 20 mm(deck) Italy: //(still need to find that info) Installed power: US: 6200 hp Japan: 4600 hp Russia: 20000 hp Germany: 15000 hp Italy: 9100 hp Speed: US: 20 knots Japan: 19.5 knots Russia: 25 knots Germany: 24 knots Italy: 20 knots Tier II US: Chester Japan: Chikuma Germany: Dresden Italy: Quarto Primary armament: US: 4x1 or 6x1 127/50(3 or on broadside), 7.5 rpm; 6x1 152/50(4 on broadside), 8.6 rpm Japan: 4x1 or 8x1 152/45(3 or 5 on broadside), 5 rpm Germany: 10x1 or 12x1 105/40(5 or 6 on broadside), 15 rpm Italy: 6x1 120/50(3 or 5 on broadside); unknown RoF(source) Secondary armament: US: 4x1 76.2/50(2 on broadside), 12 rpm plus 2x1 76.2/23(1 on broadside), 15 rpm Japan: 4x1 80/40(2 on broadside), 12 rpm Germany: // Italy: 6x1 76/50(3 on broadside), 10 rpm(source) Torpedo armament: US: // Japan: // Germany: // Italy: // Protection(maximum thickness): US: 38 mm(citadel), 19 mm(deck) Japan: 16 mm(citadel), 40 mm(deck) Germany: 9 mm(citadel), 50 mm(deck) Italy: //(possibly 9/10 mm) (citadel), 40 mm(deck) Installed power: US: 16000 hp Japan: 22500 hp Germany: 18800 hp Italy: 25000 hp Speed: US: 24 knots Japan: 26 knots Germany: 25 knots Italy: 28 knots Tier III US: St.Louis Japan: Tenryu Germany: Kolberg Italy: Vettor Pisani(temporary) Primary armament: US: 10x1 or 14x1 152/50(6 or 8 on broadside), 6 or 7.5 rpm Japan: 4x1 140/50(4 on broadside), 10 rpm Germany: 12x1 105/40(6 on broadside), 15 rpm Italy: 12x1 152/40(6 on broadside), 7 rpm(source) Secondary armament: US: 18x1 76.2/50(9 on broadside), 12 rpm Japan: // Germany: // Italy: 6x1 120/40(4 on broadside), 6 rpm(source) Torpedo armament: US: // Japan: 2x3 533 mm(6 on broadside), 58 s reload time Germany: // Italy: // Protection(maximum thickness): US: 102 mm(citadel), 76 mm(deck) Japan: 63 mm(citadel), 25 mm(deck) Germany: 10 mm(citadel), 80 mm(deck) Italy: 150 mm (citadel), 37 mm(deck) Installed power: US: 24000 hp Japan: 51000 hp Germany: 31000 hp Italy: 13250 hp Speed: US: 22 knots Japan: 32.5 knots Germany: 27 knots Italy: 19 knots Tier IV US: Phoenix Japan: Kuma Germany: Karlsruhe Italy: Da Giussano/Cadorna(temporary) Primary armament: US: 6x1 or 8x1 or 10x1 152/50(3 or 4 or 5 guns on broadside), 6 rpm; 8x1 or 10x1 152/53(4 or 5 guns on broadside), 8.6 rpm Japan: 7x1 140/50(6 guns on broadside), 10 rpm Germany: 8x1 150/45(5 guns on broadside), 7 rpm Italy: 4x2 152/53(8 guns on broadside), 4 or 8 rpm(source) Secondary armament: US: // Japan: // Germany: 2x1 88/45(2 guns on broadside), 15 rpm Italy: 3x2 100/47(4 guns on broadside), 10 rpm(source) Torpedo armament: US: 2x2 533 mm(2 on broadside), 44 s reload time; 2x3 533 mm(3 on broadside), 66 s reload time Japan: 4x2 533 mm(4 on broadside), 42 s reload time Germany: 2x2 500 mm(2 on broadside), 42 s reload time; 2x2 600 mm(2 on broadside), 53 s reload time Italy: 2x2 533 mm(2 on broadside) Protection(maximum thickness): US: 76 mm(citadel), 37 mm(deck) Japan: 65 mm(citadel), 30 mm(deck) Germany: 60 mm(citadel), 40 mm(deck) Italy: 32 mm (citadel), 20 mm(deck) Installed power: US: 90000 hp Japan: 90000 hp Germany: 45000 hp Italy: 95000 hp Speed: US: 35 knots Japan: 34.5 knots Germany: 27.5 knots Italy: 36.5 knots Tier V US: Omaha Japan: Furutaka Germany: Konigsberg Italy: -Da Giussano/Cadorna(temporary) -Montecuccoli/d'Aosta(temporary) Primary armament: US: 8x1 plus 2x2 152/53 or 6x1 plus 2x2 152/53(8 or 6 on broadside), 7.5 rpm or 8.6 rpm Japan: 6x1 200/50(6 guns on broadside), 2.7 rpm; 6x1 203/50(6 guns on broadside), 4 rpm Germany: 3x3 150/60(9 guns on broadside), 8 rpm Italy: -Da Giussano/Cadorna: 4x2 152/53(8 guns on broadside), 4 or 8 rpm(source) -Montecuccoli: 4x2 152/53(8 guns on broadside), 8 rpm(source) -d'Aosta: 4x2 152/53(8 guns on broadside), 8 rpm(source) Secondary armament: US: // Japan: 4x1 80/40(2 guns on broadside), 17.1 rpm; 4x1 120/40(2 guns on broadside), 12 rpm Germany: 2x1 88/45(2 guns on broadside), 15 rpm; 1x2 88/76(2 guns on broadside), 15 rpm Italy: -Da Giussano/Cadorna: 3x2 100/47(4 guns on broadside), 10 rpm(source) -Montecuccoli: 3x2 100/47(4 guns on broadside), 10 rpm(source) -d'Aosta: 3x2 100/47(4 guns on broadside), 10 rpm(source) Torpedo armament: US: 4x2 533 mm(4 on broadside), 44 s reload time; 4x3 or 2x3 533 mm(6 or 3 on broadside), 66 s or 44 s reload time Japan: 2x3 610 mm(3 on broadside), 73 s or 76 s reload time Germany: 4x3 533 mm(6 on broadside), 68 s reload time Italy: -Da Giussano/Cadorna: 2x2 533 mm(2 on broadside) -Montecuccoli: 2x2 533 mm(2 on broadside) -d'Aosta: 2x3 533 mm(3 on broadside) Protection(maximum thickness): US: 76 mm(citadel), 37 mm(deck) Japan: 76 mm(citadel), 48 mm(deck) Germany: 50 mm(citadel), 20 mm(deck) Italy: -Da Giussano/Cadorna: 32 mm (citadel), 20 mm(deck) -Montecuccoli: 85 mm(citadel), 30 mm(deck) -d'Aosta: 105 mm(citadel), 35 mm(deck) Installed power: US: 90000 hp Japan: 102000 hp Germany: 68200 hp Italy: -Da Giussano/Cadorna: 95000 hp -Montecuccoli: 106000 hp -d'Aosta: 110000 hp Speed: US: 34 knots Japan: 34.5 knots Germany: 32.5 knots Italy: -Da Giussano/Cadorna: 36.5 knots -Montecuccoli: 36.5 knots -d'Aosta: 37 knots

Most likely, then again I still need to guestimate the damage of the shells and everything related to the torps. In any case they seem to be the most dull, excluding Leone which would be fun with all those guns at tier IV

That as well but I will gladly leave that issue to WG since it's beyond what I can do and what this thread is supposed to achieve. It's just a way for me to see if everything works and makes sense pre-balancing. Without knowing exactly how that works it would be rather pointless trying

DESTROYERS Tier VI US: Farragut Japan: Mutsuki Russia: Ognevoy Italy: Maestrale Primary armament: US: 5x1 or 4x1 127/38(5 or 4 on broadside), 15 rpm Japan: 4x1 or 2x1 120/45(4 or 2 on broadside), 5 rpm or 10.9 rpm Russia: 2x2 130/50(4 on broadside), 12 rpm Italy: 2x2 120/50 or 1x2 plus 2x1 120/50(4 on broadside), 6/7 rpm(source) Secondary armament: US: // Japan: // Russia: // Italy: // Torpedo armament: US: 2x4 533 mm(8 on broadside), 88 s reload time Japan: 2x3 610 mm(6 on broadside), 73 s reload time Russia: 2x3 533 mm(6 on broadside), 70 s reload time Italy: 1x3 or 2x3 533 mm(3 or 6 on broadside) Installed power: US: 42800 hp Japan: 38500 hp Russia: 52200 hp Italy: 44000 hp Speed: US: 36.5 knots Japan: 37.5 knots Russia: 37 knots Italy: 38 knots Tier VII US: Mahan Japan: Hatsuharu Russia: Kiev Italy: Soldati I Primary armament: US: 5x1 or 4x1 127/38(5 or 4 on broadside), 15 rpm Japan: 2x2 plus 1x1 127/50 or 2x2 127/50(5 or 4 on broadside), 6 rpm or 6.7 rpm Russia: 3x2 130/50(6 on broadside), 12 rpm Italy: 2x2 120/50 or 2x2 120/50 plus 1x1 120/50(4 or 5 on broadside), 6/7 rpm(source) Secondary armament: US: // Japan: // Russia: 1x2 85/52(2 on broadside), 15 rpm Italy: // Torpedo armament: US: 3x4 533 mm(8 on broadside), 88 s reload time Japan: 2x3 610 mm(6 on broadside), 76 s reload time Russia: 2x5 533 mm(10 on broadside), 127 s reload time Italy: 1x3 or 2x3 533 mm(3 or 6 on broadside) Installed power: US: 49000 hp Japan: 42000 hp Russia: 81000 hp Italy: 48000 hp Speed: US: 35 knots Japan: 36.5 knots Russia: 42.5 knots Italy: 38 knots Tier VIII US: Benson Japan: Fubuki Russia: Tashkent Italy: Soldati II, Maestrale II Primary armament: US: 5x1 or 4x1 127/38(5 or 4 on broadside), 18 rpm Japan: 3x2 or 2x2 127/50(6 or 4 guns on broadside, 6.7 rpm Russia: 3x2 130/50(6 on broadside), 12 rpm Italy: -Soldati II: 2x2 120/50 or 2x2 120/50 plus 1x1 120/50(4 or 5 on broadside), 6/7 rpm(source) -Maestrale II: 3x2 120/50(6 on broadside), 6/7 rpm(source) Secondary armament: US: // Japan: // Russia: // Italy: // Torpedo armament: US: 2x5 533 mm(10 on broadside), 109 s reload time Japan: 3x3 610 mm(9 on broadside), 82 s reload time Russia: 3x3 533 mm(10 on broadside), 74 s reload time Italy: -Soldati II: 1x3 or 1x4 533 mm(3 or 4 on broadside) -Maestrale II: 1x3 533 mm(3 on broadside) Installed power: US: 50000 hp Japan: 50000 hp Russia: 125500 hp Italy: Soldati II: 48000 hp Maestrale II: //(most likely more or less comparable to Navigatori) Speed: US: 38 knots Japan: 35 knots Russia: 42.5 knots Italy: Soldati II: 38 knots Maestrale II: //(possibly 38 knots) Tier IX US: Fletcher Japan: Kagero Russia: Udaloy Italy: Medaglie d'Oro Primary armament: US: 5x1 127/38(5 on broadside), 18 rpm Japan: 3x2 or 2x2 127/50(6 or 4 guns on broadside), 6.7 rpm Russia: 3x2 130/50(6 on broadside), 12 rpm; 3x2 130/55(6 on broadside), 13 rpm Italy: 4x1 or 5x1 135/45(4 or 5 on broadside), 6/7 rpm(source) Secondary armament: US: // Japan: // Russia: // Italy: // Torpedo armament: US: 2x5 533 mm(8 on broadside), 122 s reload time Japan: 2x4 610 mm(8 on broadside), 109 s reload time Russia: 3x3 533 mm(6 on broadside), 70 s reload time; 3x5 533 mm(10 on broadside), 117 s reload time Italy: 2x3 533 mm(6 on broadside) Installed power: US: 60000 hp Japan: 52000 hp Russia: 84500 hp Italy: 60000 hp Speed: US: 36.5 knots Japan: 35 knots Russia: 40 knots Italy: 35 knots Tier X US: Gearing Japan: Shimakaze Russia: Khabarovsk Italy: Capitani Romani Primary armament: US: 3x2 127/38(6 on broadside), 20 rpm Japan: 3x2 127/50(6 guns on broadside), 8.6 rpm Russia: 4x2 130/55(8 on broadside), 13 rpm Italy: 4x2 135/45(8 on broadside), 6/7 rpm(source) Secondary armament: US: // Japan: // Russia: // Italy: // Torpedo armament: US: 2x5 533 mm(8 on broadside), 136 s reload time Japan: 3x5 610 mm(15 on broadside), 150 s reload time Russia: 2x5 533 mm(10 on broadside), 116 s reload time Italy: 2x4 533 mm(8 on broadside) Installed power: US: 60000 hp Japan: 75000 hp Russia: 130000 hp Italy: 110000 hp Speed: US: 36 knots Japan: 35 knots Russia: 43 knots Italy: 40 knots

Overall it seems that's the case although it would take some work still(like understanding the logic behind the torpedoes reload time and if AA is chosen by starting from "we need to have the ship balanced compared to CVs" or "we need to have the ship as much historical as we possibly can"). When I understood those "issues" I will update them all to make it as complete as possible.

DESTROYERS Tier II US: Sampson Japan: Umikaze Russia: Storozhevoi Italy: Palestro, Poerio Primary armament: US: 4x1 102/50(3 on broadside), 8.6 rpm Japan: 3x1 120/40(3 on broadside), 6 rpm Russia: 3x1 102/60(3 on broadside), 12 rpm Italy: -Palestro: 4x1 102/45(3 on broadside), 7 rpm(source) -Poerio: 4x1 or 6x1 102/45(2 or 3 on broadside), 7 rpm(source) Secondary armament: US: // Japan: 5x1 80/40(5 on broadside), 17.1 rpm Russia: // Italy: -Palestro: // -Poerio: // Torpedo armament: US: 4x2 457 mm mm(4 on broadside), 22 s reload time Japan: 2x2 457 mm(4 on broadside), 22 s reload time Russia: 3x3 450 mm(9 on broadside), 33 s reload time Italy: -Palestro: 2x2 450 mm(2 on broadside) -Poerio: 2x2 or 4x2 450 mm(2 or 4 on broadside) Installed power: US: 18000 hp Japan: 20500 hp Russia: 28400 hp Italy: -Palestro: 18000 hp -Poerio: 24000 hp Speed: US: 29.5 knots Japan: 33 knots Russia: 35 knots Italy: -Palestro: 32 knots -Poerio: 31.5 knots Tier III US: Wickes Japan: Wakatake Russia: Derzki Italy: Curtatone, Mirabello Primary armament: US: 4x1 102/50(3 on broadside), 8.6 rpm Japan: 3x1 120/45(3 on broadside), 5 rpm Russia: 3x1 102/60(3 on broadside), 12 rpm Italy: -Curtatone: 2x2 102/45(4 on broadside), 7 rpm(source) -Mirabello: 8x1 102/45(5 on broadside), 7 rpm(source) Secondary armament: US: // Japan: // Russia: // Italy: -Curtatone: // -Mirabello: // Torpedo armament: US: 4x3 533 mm(6 on broadside), 32 s reload time Japan: 2x2 533 mm(4 on broadside), 39 s reload time Russia: 5x2 450 mm(10 on broadside), 22 s reload time Italy: -Palestro: 2x3 450 mm(6 on broadside) -Mirabello: 2x2 450 mm(2 on broadside) Installed power: US: 26400 hp Japan: 21500 hp Russia: 25500 hp Italy: -Curtatone: 22000 hp -Mirabello: 44000 hp Speed: US: 34 knots Japan: 35.5 knots Russia: 34 knots Italy: -Curtatone: 32 knots -Mirabello: 35 knots Tier IV US: Clemson Japan: Isokaze Russia: Izyaslav Italy: Sella, Leone Primary armament: US: 4x1 or 4x2 102/50(3 or 6 on broadside), 8.6 rpm Japan: 3x1 120/40(3 on broadside), 6 rpm Russia: 5x1 102/60(3 on broadside), 12 rpm Italy: -Sella: 2x2 120/45(4 on broadside), 7 rpm(source) -Leone: 4x2 120/45(8 on broadside), 7 rpm(source) Secondary armament: US: // Japan: // Russia: // Italy: -Sella: // -Leone: // Torpedo armament: US: 4x3 533 mm(6 on broadside), 40 s reload time Japan: 3x2 533 mm(6 on broadside), 42 s reload time Russia: 3x3 450 mm(9 on broadside), 33 s reload time Italy: -Sella: 2x2 or 2x3 533 mm(4 or 6 on broadside) -Leone: 2x3 450 mm or 2x2 533 mm(6 or 4 on broadside) Installed power: US: 27000 hp Japan: 27000 hp Russia: 32700 hp Italy: -Sella: 36000 hp -Leone: 42000 hp Speed: US: 35 knots Japan: 34 knots Russia: 35 knots Italy: -Sella: 35 knots -Leone: 34 knots Tier V US: Nicholas Japan: Minekaze Russia: Grevny Italy: Dardo, Navigatori Primary armament: US: 5x1 or 4x1 127/51(5 or 4 on broadside), 9.2 rpm; 4x1 127/38(4 on broadside), 15 rpm Japan: 4x1 120/45(4 on broadside), 5 rpm Russia: 4x1 130/50(4 on broadside), 12 rpm Italy: -Dardo: 2x2 120/50(4 on broadside), 6/7 rpm(source) -Navigatori: 3x2 120/50(6 on broadside), 6/7 rpm(source) Secondary armament: US: // Japan: // Russia: // Italy: -Dardo: // -Navigatori: // Torpedo armament: US: 4x3 533 mm(6 on broadside), 66 s reload time Japan: 3x2 533 mm(6 on broadside), 47 s reload time Russia: 2x3 533 mm(6 on broadside), 70 s reload time Italy: -Dardo: 1x3 or 2x3 533 mm(3 or 6 on broadside) -Navigatori: 1x3 or 2x3 533 mm(3 or 6 on broadside) Installed power: US: 55000 hp Japan: 38500 hp Russia: 48000 hp Italy: -Dardo: 44000 hp -Navigatori: 50000 hp Speed: US: 37 knots Japan: 39 knots Russia: 38 knots Italy: -Sella: 38 knots -Leone: 38 knots

Since the tree is pretty much done(a few things are missing here and there but nothing substantial overall) I think it's time to compare my picks with the ingame counterparts currently available(i will update the comparisons whenever WG adds something to the mix). Before starting there are few things: 1)I would avoid Cleveland for the time being for the comparisons, for the same reason I haven't considered her placement. 2)I will compare also ships in parallel within my tech tree, whenever they are present 3)I may make mistake without spotting them immediately so if there's anything wrong please let me know and I'll fix the issue. 4)I may try to guess some stats but further down the road. At first I'll compare the "hard stats"(protection, armament layout, speed and similar). I haven't considered AA primarily because it can easily be changed due to balance reasons. 5)For the stats I use the ingame stats and, for the Italian ships, what I gathered plus navweaps(for the weapons). As far as reload time for torpedoes is concerned I decided not to guess them since I can't understand the logic. 5)I may write comments below the stats(wherever it makes sense of course) but I would rather write them all down first before commenting. Of course your feedback is appreciated and I will take into account all the suggestions coming from you.

The Yorktown-class will be implemented in the second CV line most likely/the US has enough designs for that).

The French ships will be interesting but they won't come anytime soon. Together with Italy we don't know exactly when they will show up. Personally I hope either one will be implemented together with the UK later next year(WG has always implemented two trees at a time). In any case as stated above pre-dreads may come as tier II premiums but that's about it. The Italian ships will come eventually, only the when is still unknown. They should come SOONTM PT boats won't be implemented. Regarding the destroyers personally I find that line the least interesting overall: granted there are some interesting ships but in general they are not as special and unique as the others. The rebuilt BBs changed drastically. As far as I know their "refit" is one of the most extensive ones done in those times which changed drastically their performance. They were the same ships but not much of the old designs remained. Italian DDs were also fast(Tashkent sends her regards) She would suck since she had only two guns with a very limited field of fire. Germany hadn't a lot of cruiser designs and the latest designs were based on Deutschland which is a cruiser quite difficult to balance(having terrible speed and meh protection coupled with 11" guns). Still I'm looking forward to see the proper BCs since Germany is perfectly capable of fielding an entire line of them.

I haven't played WoT for ages but I still follow the discussion in the Italian section(having one here <.<). I can sort of understand not having asap an Italian tree but they could have given a premium at least, a là Type 59(not as op as the Type of the old days). In WoWP I was part of ST and I did a similar work but nothing came out of it because the population dropped like a rock and I refused to waste time(especially after they announced the French eons ago and nothing has come out yet). At least here the Italians' precence was sprt of confirmed officially so there's hope(better than nothing)