Deamon93

Daimon_Frey_89, on 12 November 2013 - 06:43 PM, said: I believe that it's this Hermes, not the design from 1944 (which I am not familiar with). Update ready: http://img542.images...2/8070/gxzz.jpg Again only link because of this forum... Ah that sounds better, the HMS Hermes i meant is still in service in India(with a different name of course). The other HMS Hermes could be a nice mid-high tier CV i guess

But then i want the Swiss one! They won the America's cup several time, they deserve it :trollface:

mr3awsome, on 12 November 2013 - 05:49 PM, said: Update! Britain Added CV Hermes to tier 3 Added CV Malta to tier 10 Moved CL Emerald to tier 4 Weird a 1944 design at tier 3(HMS Hermes). The rest seems fine to me although i don't know anything about the Malta class. Daimon_Frey_89, on 12 November 2013 - 06:08 PM, said: Update is ready, but imageshack.us is offline again so I'll show it to you when hosting will become available again. PS Frequency of my updates may lower because on thursday I'm starting new job :) No problem, we can wait :). BTW good luck with your new job!

In this topic i'll compare this two battleships which never met on the field although they were designed to face one another(the Richelieu was the French respond to the Littorio which was designed to fight against the Dunkerque class). I will compare their characteristics and then guess which one would have won a what-if engagement. CHARACTERISTICS Displacement(standard) Littorio: 40,724 tons (40,081 long tons; 44,891 short tons) Richelieu: 35,000 tons Lenght Littorio: 237.76 metres (780.1 ft) Richelieu: 247.85 m (813.2 ft) Beam Littorio: 32.82 metres (107.7 ft) Richelieu: 33 m (108 ft) Draft Littorio: 9.6 metres (31 ft) Richelieu: 9.63 m (31.6 ft) Installed power Littorio: 128.000 hp (95,6 MW) Richelieu: 150.000 hp (112 MW) Speed Littorio: 30 knots (56 km/h; 35 mph) Richelieu: 30 knots (56 km/h; 35 mph) Range Littorio: 4,580 nautical miles (8,480 km) at 16 knots (30 km/h; 18 mph) Richelieu: 9,850 nautical miles (18,240 km; 11,340 mi) at 16 knots (30 km/h; 18 mph) Armament Littorio: -Main armament: 9 × 381 mm (15.0 in) L/50 guns(3x3) -Secondary armament: 12 × 152 mm (6.0 in) L/55 guns(4x3) -AAA: 12 × 90 mm (3.5 in)/53 (AA), 20 × 37 mm (1.5 in)/54, 16 × 2 20 mm (0.79 in)/65 Richelieu: -Main armament: 8 × 380 mm (15.0 in)/45 Modèle 1935 guns(2x4) -Secondary armament: 9 × 152 mm (6.0 in) (3x3) -AAA(as constructed): 12 × 100 mm (3.94 in), 16 × 37 mm (1.5 in), 28 × 13.2 mm (0.52 in) Armor Littorio: -Belt: 280 mm (11 in) -Upper deck: 150 millimetres (5.9 in) -Turrets: 350 millimetres (14 in) Richelieu: Belt: 330 mm (13.0 in) Upper armored deck:170 mm (6.7 in) Main turrets: 430 mm (17 in) COMPARISON Let's compare the two classes in the main characteristics(installed power, speed, range, armament, armor) Installed power Clearly the Richelieu has the edge on this one with 22.000 hp more than the Littorio Speed Both ships have the same maximum speed so, in this aspect, there's a draw Range As before the Richelieu has a clear edge with a range more than 100% longer than the Littorio one Armament The Littorio has a heavier armament both in main armament and secondary armament. The Richelieu armarmament, due to the concentration on the bow, keeps the aft less defended and increases the risk of losing a high percentage of guns due to a lucky hit on the turret(all the Italian guns were divided by a bulkhead while the French one were divided in pairs). Unfortunately i don't have any data regarding the French gun penetration, i know that the Ansaldo 15 inch was able to penetrate 350 mm from 35 km and 800 mm from close range. Armor Armor is yet again in the Richelieu side, having a thicker armor in all the key places. Due to the higher penetration for the Ansaldo guns the armor is still vulnerable although superior. The what-if engagement(1 vs 1) Counting all the aspects a what-if engagement could end in multiple ways. Both ships could have won although the Littorio had a small edge over the Richelieu due to these reasons: -Higher range/higher penetration at the same range -In case of an approach from aft the Richelieu was virtually defenceless -In case of hits on the turret, as happened to the Dunkerque, the Richelieu would have substained from 25 to 50% decrease of her firepower. The Littorio would have substained from 11 to 33% on the same conditions. -The Richelieu magazines were close to each other increasing the risk of lucky hits and, probably, a detonation. The same thing is less likely in the Littorio. Many things could happen on a naval engagement between the might of the two rival navies so the reasons stated above could or could not decide the outcome. In any case, personally, i think that the Littorio would have won eventually, even though she would have substain heavy damage(if there's no lucky hit right at the start). Of course this last part is just my own personal opinion, feel free to say your own outcome. I hope you'll like this topic! Deamon93

Eraser_SK, on 12 November 2013 - 02:42 PM, said: Here is some info (in czech) about Czechoslovak Patrol Boat PRESIDENT MASARYK. http://www.brannamoc...sident-masaryk/ Since 1939 was in german Donauflottile under name Bechelaren http://historisches-...naumonitore.php (in german). Maybe one of premium ships in game? :playing: Never heard of any ships from Czechoslovakia, still i don't think she will be suited for open sea. We will see, maybe she will be part of the EU tech tree

He meant that RAF sank the Tirpitz on the 12/11/1944.

Georgy_Zhukov_1945, on 10 November 2013 - 02:11 PM, said: About that If they add this ship which was built in 1914 in that time it was the Imperial Russia (not CCCP) so my question is if they add it will it have the Red start insignia or the insignia of Imperial Russia. Personally i don't mind having both available. They could have the original Imperial Navy flag for the stock version and the CCCP flag for the top configuration after the refits. It makes sense

Fine ships in 1914, in WWII they they were quite inferior in comparison to the most modern counterparts. Still nice topic, thanks for sharing! Jorgefl, on 10 November 2013 - 02:03 PM, said: Nice ship. Will be it in the game? Most probably. Could be weird not to see the Russian tech tree without the Gangut class

Achyluss, on 10 November 2013 - 10:25 AM, said: Nice topic , but i wondered if you have anything on what Germany were doing over that time period , after the The Treaty of Versailles Germany’s army was reduced to 100,000 men; the army was not allowed tanks She was not allowed an airforce She was allowed only 6 capital naval ships and no submarines The west of the Rhineland and 50 kms east of the River Rhine was made into a demilitarised zone (DMZ). No German soldier or weapon was allowed into this zone. The Allies were to keep an army of occupation on the west bank of the Rhine for 15 years. The problem is that Germany, as defeated nation, didn't take part in the naval treates. I could try and search any information about what happened in Germany during the 20s and 30s to complete a bit ^^

Camiroq, on 10 November 2013 - 08:04 AM, said: Yup. Bismarck vs Littorio, I need to see it. It requires a lot of time, we could make topics comparing the two ships. Topics like that could be very interesting both to write and to read in my opinion

Mr_Mistery, on 09 November 2013 - 07:51 PM, said: absolutly Do not just shoddy ammunition to be there, by all means get this boat :great: I have the Roma in my image, i know them pretty well. The problem is we have to wait to see them in action but there's no hurry ^^

They were fine ships indeed although they weren't able to do much during the war due to our lack of fuel. Surely the Littorio-class battleships will be fine tier 8 BBs, able to fight on even ground against the Bismark most probably

You have to use English ^^

The RM Giulio Cesare(Julius Ceasar in italian) was a Conte di Cavour-class battleship, serving in both World Wars and then given to the USSR as a war prize in 1949. Her history from construction to her reconstruction Her keel was laid down on 24 June 1910 at Cantieri Ansaldo, Genoa. She was launched 15 October 1911, and construction was completed 14 May 1914. During WWI had no active missions, starting her military activity from 1923 when she bombarded the Greek island of Corfu after the killing of Italian rapresentatives. Became later on, in 1928, a training ship for gunnery practice until the extensive reconstruction, which lasted from 1933 to 1937. General characteristics: 1911 / 1937 Displacement: 23,088 tons standard / 28,800 tons standard, 25,086 tons full load / 29,100 tons full load Length: 176.1 m / 186.4 m Beam: 28 m / 28 m Draught: 9.4 m / 10.4 m Propulsion: 20 boilers, 4 shafts, 31,000 hp / 8 boilers, 2 shafts, 93,000 hp Speed: 21.5 knots (41 km/h) / 28 knots (53 km/h) Range: 4,800 miles at 10 knots / 3,100 miles at 20 knots Complement: 1,000 / 1,236 Armament: 13 × 305/46 mm / 10 × 320/44 mm 18 × 120/50 mm / 12 × 120/50 mm 16 × 76/50 mm / 8 × 100/47 mm 6 × 76/40 mm / 8 × 37/54 mm 3 × 450 mm torpedo tubes / 12 × 20/65 mm Armament of the Novorossiysk: 10 × 320/44 mm 12 × 120/50 mm 8 × 100/47 mm 30 × 37/67 mm (12 × 2, 6 × 1) WWII activity She was part of the Italian fleet which fought against the British in the battle of Punta Stilo, in which got hit by HMS Warspite. That hit set the record for naval gunnery against a moving target(over 24 kilometres). After then was part of an Italian task force to intercept Operation White, a British attempt to transfer planes to Malta. That sortie resulted in nine British planes shot down and seven pilots killed. During 1942 RM Giulio Cesare was assigned as convoy escort, partecipating the the First Battle of Sirte when the British tried to intercept one of the Italian convoys. Soon after, as many other ships, was left on harbor due to the lack of fuel until the Italian surrender in Semptember the 8th 1943. When the King order the fleet to sail towards Malta she was at Pola(nowadays Pula, Croazia). During the night between the 9th and the 10th there was a munity between the crew, due to the fact that they didn't like the order as many other sailors in the fleet. Although this incident the captain, Capitano di fregata Vittore Carminati, regained control of the ship the next day without any other problems. The battleship got spotted by the former allies Germans at 12.15 and soon after attacked by a formation of Stukas which got repelled by the AA fire. She reached the base of Taranto, occupied by Allies, the 11th of September at 14.00 with the fuel tanks almost empty. The next day she sailed to Malta escorted by HMS Warspite and four destroyers, remaining at Malta until June 1944 when she sailed back to Taranto. Peace treaty and the story of the Novorossiysk After the end of WWII the ship, renamed Novorossiysk, was transfer to the USSR becoming part of the Back Sea fleet. After being overhauled several times from 1950 to 1955, due to the lack of maintenance during 1943 and 1948, she was used as gunnery training ship. In 28th of October 1955, when she was stationary in the bay after the celebrations of the 100th anniversary of the defence of Sevastopol, an explosion below the keel ruptured the hull and sinking her in few hours. 604 sailors lost their lives between the explosion and the sinking of the ship, including some members parties sent to save the crew. The official version say that the Novorossiysk was sunk by a German magnetic mine although that particular point of the bay was used many times before without any incident. Another possible causes is either a spe-ops action of former X MAS members, an elite unit responsible of sinking many ships during WWII and officially disbanded at the end of the hostilities, to avenge the unacceptable term of giving the Giulio Cesare to the Russians. The person who said so was a Russian historian, Nikolaj Čerchašin, in a article. This possibility had no proof supporting it and it got rejected by Admiral Gino Birindelli, former X MAS, who said that "era un'altra patacca venduta da un russo" (it was another piece of garbage sold by a russian). I could have missed something while i was summarizing, if i find something is missing i will add it. I hope you will like it! Deamon93

bandit287, on 08 November 2013 - 05:55 PM, said: I want to see these warships in the game ! They are fierce ! http://en.wikipedia....Missouri_(BB-63) And the Arizona too ! http://en.wikipedia...._Arizona_(BB-39) You will see both as you can see here: http://forum.worldof...dated-06112013/

RedBear87, on 08 November 2013 - 02:25 PM, said: Uh? It should be 35.000 tons and 14 inch (the tonnage is the same as the Washington treaty but the calibre was 16 inch), it's article 4 of the treaty. King George V class BB were the only ships that remained faithful to its provisions, but it was mostly because they couldn't do otherwise, the treaty was pretty much a lame duck since the beginning with its escalator clauses introduced in order to reply to any move made by a non treaty party. I confused with a British proposal, never mind :teethhappy: . Still the effectiveness of the Treaty is limited, i will add it anyway ^^

RedBear87, on 08 November 2013 - 02:10 PM, said: It's my pleasure; maybe you could also add a mention about the Second London Naval Treaty, it lasted just few years and it was even less effective than its predecessors, since Japan and Italy were never part of it, but it did create a generation of "treaty battleships" of some sort. The problem of the Second London Treaty is that nobody respected it, even UK. It set as limitation 25.000 tons as displacement and 12 inch as caliber while the KGV has bigger displacement and larger caliber(still in the limits of the original ones set by the Washington Treaty). bourdonnais, on 08 November 2013 - 01:59 PM, said: Nice and interesting topic. +1 Glad you liked it, it's my pleasure :)

RedBear87, on 08 November 2013 - 01:39 PM, said: I think this could need to get reworded a bit, the two Nelson class BB were the only battleships built anywhere in the world after the Washington Naval Treaty, Mutsu and three Colorado class were being fitted when the negotiations started and the treaty initially planned the scrapping/conversion of both ships being fitted and under construction, Japan objected it and eventually they reached this compromise, Japan keeping Mutsu, America keeping the three Colorado class being fitted (the 4th under construction, USS Washington, was expended as gunnery target according to the provisions of the treaty) and Britain building two more battleships, older capital ships got scrapped in place of this last generation. Thanks for the clarification, i will correct the post right away ^^.

RedBear87, on 08 November 2013 - 12:43 PM, said: With the exception of the two British Nelson class, which were allowed after America and Japan were allowed to retain Colorado class and Nagato class respectively. It's also noteworthy to mention that some capital ships were allowed to be converted into aircraft carriers (Courageous class for the UK, Lexington class for the USA, Akagi and Kaga for Japan) which proved to be very valuable as first fleet carriers. Corrected and i clarified the convertion from capital ship to carrier(it was present the maximum tonnage but not the fact that the capital ships had either to be scrapped or converted).

Querulous, on 08 November 2013 - 11:52 AM, said: This had a major impact on naval designs Its almost perfect for games, because many designs were designed to the same weight Moreover many designed were developed to counter a specific foreign counter part. This is more evident in the cruisers and destroyers which hadn't limitations in overall tonnage, at least until the London Treaty. This particular Treaty lasted only 4 years so the limits in overall tonnage weren't effective, although the classes lasted its end

mr3awsome, on 07 November 2013 - 05:00 PM, said: And that was last time we asked, they might plan to have more ships at this point. I don't remember the last time we asked but still it's likely that they've added some more. We will see when they will give us more information

Not exactly. It's quite difficult to hit a target moving at 30+ knots and relatively small. The BBs will hunt other BBs, cruisers and carriers frst which are much bigger and slower targets.

I don't know but surely the ships will be few at the start.

Strange looking ship. I don't blame the Union to call it hellish machine because it fits perfectly :teethhappy:

daantje8, on 06 November 2013 - 09:07 PM, said: to every great ship come's an end ;) But yes she suffered alot of damage, i think she did a great job and she was definitely word that they build her. At least she's resting in peace in "one piece" now :)