Deamon93

BelRiose, on 19 November 2013 - 06:40 PM, said: As you can see from data sheet, it was underpowered (in engine) and slow, for the era....Giulio Cesare was rebuilt in 1937 and become as fast as a battle-cruiser, with more than twice the engine power of the british battleship... They were both launched in 1916 (or near that year) but the italian one, after works in 1937, was pratically a new battleship (more a battle-cruiser, in my mind). In comparison to the Littorio class the Cavour and the Caio Duilio(both modernized between '33 and '37) were bad. They should have scrapped them and use the metal to build new ships or, at least, give the priority to carriers(we almost had them but we could have got them way early). Same for radar: the EC3 Gufo was almost complete in 1937 but the politicians did some cuts on the budget so the studies and the construction of the radar was continued when the Brits owned us many times at night.

BelRiose, on 19 November 2013 - 07:07 PM, said: I see a pic of october 1943, the ship was intact and, correct, was in building...the dock in which you see it is the dock in which they finish building of ships after launch from the near-by shipyard (I'm shure, works this way still nowdays...). The main air-raids over Ancona was on 26th october 1943 (on railway station) and for two days on 1th and 2th november 1943 (on shipyard and seaport), so I think it was hitted in one of this two days...General Anders of Polish Commowealth Forces arrived in Ancona in july 1944. By the way, the burned ship in the docks is the Royal Yacht "Savoia"....... It was sunk the 1st of November so probably during the raid then.

BelRiose, on 19 November 2013 - 05:43 PM, said: "Ottaviano Augusto" of Capitani Romani Class Cruisers sunk in 1943/1944 in the ancona seaport... (on low right side of this pic) Reconnaissance Photo Aerial View Ancona Italy ""Operation Strangle"" di San Diego Air & Space Museum Archives, su Flickr The Ottaviano Augusto wasn't completed. I don't remember the occasion of her destruction but probably she was scuttled during the advance of the Allies(as far as i recall the first to go there were the Canadians, maybe i'm wrong)

RedBear87, on 19 November 2013 - 06:18 PM, said: I'm not familiar with WoWp, do you mean something like parallel branches which converge at some tier? I don't really like similar solutions, there's little incentive in trying both branches. Yeah there's a branch which has two parallel lines until a certain point and then converge in a single one. It's a possibility, i don't know if they will follow it though

BelRiose, on 19 November 2013 - 06:06 PM, said: Don't think so, they decomissioned it and keep the Giulio Cesare... Giulio Cesare received on 3th february 1949, Royal Sovereign decommissioned on 4th february 1949... :trollface: Displacement (standard): Royal S: 27.500t G.Cesare: 28.800t Speed: Royal S.: 23 knots G.Cesare: 28 knots Power: Royal S.: 40.000hp G.Cesare: 93.000hp (!) All data for Royal Sovereign from english Wikipedia, all data for Giulio Cesare from italian Wikipedia (data after 1937 rebuilding)... The Ark Sovereign was a place holder. They kept her until Italy was able to give to URSS a war prize(the Giulio Cesare)

RedBear87, on 19 November 2013 - 05:37 PM, said: What happens to Kagero then? They just happen to be somewhere between Fubuki (following destroyers were less performing because of treaty restrictions) and Yugumo in terms of performance... another line? I guess they are just assigning the tier to the ships. I don't know the Japanese destroyers but i think there could be parallel branches even for just a tier(as they did in WoWP for example). I'm not sure of course.

mr3awsome, on 19 November 2013 - 05:10 PM, said: Update! DD Fubuki to tier 7 DD Yugumo to tier 8 Nice! Then the Fletcher will have a nice counterpart :)

I didn't know that, good to know then :) I don't know how the French classified their ships, i know only the Italian classification(although i'm not an expert).

The Leone-class is an evolution of the designs developed during WWI. She was designed as a scout, due to the fact that back then planes had limited use on sea. The Leone-class had a powerful armament(especially in broadsides), armament which got matched only in 1936 by the American Porter-class. Over the years they saw many improvements meant to adapt the ship to the different conditions RM Leone General characteristics Displacement: 1,743 long tons (1,771 t) standard 2,648 long tons (2,690 t) full load Length: 113.4 m (372 ft 1 in) Beam: 10.36 m (34 ft 0 in) Draught: 3.1 m (10 ft 2 in) Propulsion: 2 shaft geared turbines, 4 Yarrow type boilers, 42,000 hp (31,300 kW) Speed: 34 knots (39 mph; 63 km/h) Range: 2,400 nmi (4,400 km) at 16 kn (18 mph; 30 km/h) Armament: When built 8x120/45 mm gun(4x2) 2x76 mm AA guns 2x7.7 mm AA guns 6x450 mm torpedo tubes(2x3) After refit 8x120/45 mm gun(4x2) 2x40 mm AA guns 4x20 mm AA guns or 4x13.2 4x533 mm torpedo tubes(2x2) It's a shame they had to be scuttled by their crews when the Italian colonies in Africa fell, they were nice ships. Still hopefully in here they will have better luck! Deamon93

I know something on my own, for what i don't know i use an italian site which has the technical data for all the ships. I haven't found anything good in english yet. Thanks by the way :honoring:

The Sella class was a much smaller destroyer than its bigger contemporary, the Leone-class. They were fast and relatively strong in armament although, until the refit in 1942, they were lacking in AAA. RM Sella(as built) General characteristics Displacement: 970 long tons (990 t) standard 1,480 long tons (1,500 t) full load Length: 89.4 m (293 ft 4 in) Beam: 8.6 m (28 ft 3 in) Draught: 2.7 m (8 ft 10 in) Propulsion: 2 shaft Parsons type geared turbines, 3 boilers, 36,000 hp (26,800 kW) Speed: 35 knots (40 mph; 65 km/h) Range: 1,800 nmi (3,300 km) at 14 kn (16 mph; 26 km/h) Armament: • 4 × 120 mm (4.7 in) guns (2×2) (after a refit, originally 3 x 120 mm, 1x2 and 1x1) • 2 × 40 mm pom-pom anti-aircraft guns(changed in 4x20 mm guns plus 4x 13.2 mm guns after a refit in 1942) • 4 × 533 mm (21 in) torpedo tubes (2×2) RM Sella during the war Overall they weren't so successful due to their experimental nature(the Regia Marina used this class to study further improvements for the next classes). Surely it will be a fine low tier destroyer. There was also a modified version of the Sella twin, RM Crispi. The Crispi, after the armistice, got captured by the Germans who increased the AA guns mounting 40 mm and 37 mm instead of the 20 mm and the 13.2 mm. It could be a premium ship for the Germans maybe(i haven't found the German classification though) I hope you'll like it! Deamon93

I will fix that asap! About the second part in italian we define the destroyers as "cacciatorperdinieri" which is the italian translation of contre-torpilleur. They were designed to face torpedo boats and other smaller destroyers although they were technically able to face larger ships thanks to the torpedoes. We prefered the MAS in that specific role(similar to the PT boats) or our frogmen

turumaji, on 18 November 2013 - 06:34 AM, said: thats another good post from you +1 There are many more ships unaccounted for(yet). The one missing are usually more complicated because over the years the got modified several times and almost every ship of every class had something unique. I've done the easier ones :trollface: Thanks by the way!

Quite an active life i may say, always travelling somewhere. Thanks for the post!

Smederevac94, on 18 November 2013 - 12:09 AM, said: Nice info and pic. :honoring: You're welcome, it's a pleasure!

Smederevac94, on 18 November 2013 - 12:08 AM, said: +1 mate Thanks Smederevac!

Smederevac94, on 18 November 2013 - 12:05 AM, said: GJ :honoring: +1 Thanks! :honoring:

Achyluss, on 17 November 2013 - 02:09 PM, said: Hmm can imagine destroyers chasing that all over the map as she was designed as a scout , should be interesting trying to hit the little tinkers :playing: Technically was designed as a scout cruiser and this class was designed to own other destroyers with a firepower beaten only by the Porter class almost 12 years later. If you chase a Leone-class with a destroyer you risk to die fairly quickly ;)

maestronet77, on 17 November 2013 - 11:30 AM, said: Good post. I like the RM Riboty ship, is good-looking. +1 :honoring: Thanks! They were also quite punchy for a WWI destroyer, sure against capital ships they had to rely on the torpedoes but against other destroyers both the Mirabello and the Riboty shouldn't have any problem ^^

Smederevac94, on 17 November 2013 - 11:16 AM, said: Nice post, I like the camo on that ship. :honoring: :great: We don't fight with bad looking ships :teethhappy: . Thanks by the way!

Well the camo will probably be "ornamental", i don't think she can hide using the camo with quite many ships able to mount radar. As the radar is concerned i don't know its characteristics. I can do a research and post here whatever i find ;)

Achyluss, on 17 November 2013 - 12:05 AM, said: fast , sleek , looks good , would be a very exciting ship to use ingame , i bet it would give most classes a big headache , plenty of firepower for its size close in , i think in game this would be a keeper for me :izmena: Well if used as a destroyer this can can easily deal tons of damage. Of course they have to go fast all time long but that's the nice thing about ships: who needs to slow down? :teethhappy: maestronet77, on 17 November 2013 - 12:13 AM, said: Good looking ship, i like it. Thanks for sharing +1 You're welcome! :honoring:

maestronet77, on 16 November 2013 - 09:42 PM, said: Good list, I like it. In my spare time I will definitely read about some of the ships. +1 I will make posts about the classes eventually, it will take quite some time ^^. Thanks by the way :honoring:

Here's the last year of the war which saw either the destruction or internation of most of the Regia Marina. Many of the losses happened immediately after the armistice(September the 8th) due to lots of errors made by the High Command. In this year three other Capitani Romani-class were built(RM Giulio Germanico, RM Pompeo Magno and RM Scipione l'Africano) Here's the status until the days immediately after the armistice BATTLESHIPS -1 Conte di Cavour-class on refit. The Giulio Cesare was at Pola when the order to go to Malta was given and she was able to reach Taranto first and then Malta. -2 Caio Duilio-class. The Caio Duilio and Andrea Doria were two lucky ships because they were both based on Taranto so, when the order came, they were able to reach Malta without any problem. -3 Littorio-class: The Littorio were based on Genova and damaged during bombing raids. During the travel to reach Malta they were intercepted by Dornier 217 with Fritz X: the Roma was sunk and the Littorio(renamed Italia) was damaged. The two remaining were interned near Alexandria CRUISERS WWI cruisers -Bari was sunk during a bombing over Livorno, where she was based due to a refit, on June 28th -Taranto was at the base of La Spezia(near Genova), she was sunk by her crew after the armistice. Heavy cruisers -Trento-class: Trieste was sunk during an Allies air raid over the naval base at the Maddalena(near Sardinia) on April the 10th. Bolzano was seized by Germans while she was docked at Genova. -Zara-class: the Gorizia, the last cruiser of this class still on service, was damaged on the raid in which the Trieste was sunk. She went to Genova where she was repaired. She was seized by German and then sunk to use her as an obstacle Light cruisers -Cadorna-class: The Cadorna was able to reach Malta after the armistice and stayed there until the end of the war -Montecuccoli-class: The Montecuccoli was part of the the Littorio-class group at Genova and she reached safely Malta -Duca d'Aosta-class: Both the Duca d'Aosta and the Eugenio di Savoia were part of the Littorio-class group and reached Malta with them. -Duca degli Abruzzi-class: Also the two Duca degli Abruzzi cruisers were based in Genova with the rest of the battle group and they both reached Malta. -Capitani Romani: the four Capitani Romani ever completed had different stories with different endings. The Attilio Regolo was with the main battle group at Genova and, when the Roma sank, she recovered the survivors. After losing sight with the rest of the fleet she sailed to Maiorca and she got interned there. The Giulio Germanico was at the navy yard of Castellamare di Stabia(near Naples). Her crew fought against the Germans until obliged to surrender. Her captain, Capitano Domenico Baffigo, was executed due to his actions. The ship herself was sunk by the Germans on September 28th when they retreated. The Pompeo Magno was based on Taranto with the Caio Duilio battleships and she reached Malta with them. Last, but not least, the Scipione Africano escorted the ship which the King and the royal family used in their travel towards Brindisi and then got interned. DESTROYERS -Mirabello-class: The Riboty was at Taranto, where she was refitted. She was still there during the armistice reaching safely Malta. -Sella-class: The Sella was at Venice on September the 8th and then she sailed south. During her way to Malta she was sunk by a German torpedo boat. Her sister, the Crispi, was seized by Germans while she was at Athens -Turbine-class: both of the two remaining Turbine-class(Turbine and Euro) were based in the Egean sea. The Euro was at Rodi and she sank due to a German air attack on October 1st. The Turbine was seized by Germans and then sank by an American air attack on September 15th. -Navigatori-class: two sank during war time(RM Malloncello due to a mine on March 24th, RM Pancaldo on March the 30th due to an air attack). The other remaining ships had other stories related to the armistice with different outcomes. Two Navigatori-class destroyers, RM da Noli and RM Vivaldi, were supposed to pick the King at Civitavecchia and sail to safety but, when the King decided to go to Ortona, both of them were left on their own. They sailed to Corsica: the Vivaldi was sunk by Germans while the da Noli was disabled by a mine and then sunk by her crew. The RM da Recco was able to reach Malta safely. The last of the class, the RM Pigafetta, was at Fiume and she was sabotaged by her crew before the Germans were able to seize her. -Freccia-class: three were sunk during war time(RM Freccia during an air attack over the port of Genova where she was based on August 8th, RM Saetta sank due to a mine on February 3rd on an escort mission and RM Lampo was sunk on April 30th on a transport mission). The only ship remaining, RM Dardo, was seized by Germans. -Maestrale-class: the Maestrale was damaged by a mine on January the 9th. She went back to base for repairs and, when the armistice came, she was sunk by her crew. The Grecale was damaged on a collition with another ship(the torpedo boat Ardente). She was repaired at Taranto and from there she sailed with the rest of the fleet to Malta. -Oriani-class: the Gioberti was sunk by a British sub on August the 9th while she was sailing to Genova. The Oriani was based in Taranto and she reached with the rest of the fleet Malta. -Soldati-class: I series: 4 were sunk during war time(RM Alpino during an air attack over the port of La Spezia on April 19th, RM Ascari due to a mine on March 24th, RM Bersagliere due to an air attack over the port of Palermo on January 7th and RM Geniere during another raid over Palermo on March 30th). RM Camicia Nera(renamed Artigliere), RM Carabiniere and RM Fuciliere reached Malta while RM Corazziere was sunk by her crew. II series: 2 were sunk during war time(RM Bombardiere by a British sub on January 17th, RM Corsaro due to a mine on January 9th). The remaining three were able to reach Malta. After all these posts here are the overall losses during the war period and the month immediately after September 8th 1943 BATTLESHIPS RM Conte di Cavour, RM Roma. CRUISERS RM San Giorgio, RM Bari, RM Taranto, RM Trento, RM Trieste, RM Zara, RM Pola, RM Fiume, RM Gorizia, RM Alberto da Giussano, RM Alberigo da Barbiano, RM Giovanni dalle Bande Nere and RM Bartolomeo Colleoni, RM Armando Diaz, RM Munzio Attendolo, RM Giulio Germanico. DESTROYERS RM Aquilone, RM Borea, RM Espero, RM Zeffiro, RM Nembo, RM Ostro, RM Artigliere, RM Mirabello, RM Leone, RM Tigre, RM Pantera, RM Tarigo, RM da Mosto, RM Nazario Sauro, RM Daniele Manin, RM Cesare Battisti, RM Francesco Nullo, RM Strale, RM Baleno, RM Fulmine, RM Libeccio, RM Alfieri, RM Carducci, RM Usodimare, RM Pessagno, RM da Verazzano, RM Folgore, RM Scirocco, RM Lanciere, RM Aviere, RM Sella, RM Turbine, RM Euro, RM Malloncello, RM Pancaldo, RM da Noli, RM Vivaldi, RM Pigafetta, RM Freccia, RM Saetta, RM Lampo, RM Maestrale, RM Gioberti, RM Alpino, RM Ascari, RM Bersagliere, RM Geniere, RM Corazziere, RM Bombardiere, RM Corsaro.

And here is how the Regia Marina looked like during 1942. In this year new ships came into service to replenish the losses(although the new ships were not sufficient). Moreover the lack of fuel kept almost all the ships at port so the activity dropped considerably even though, numerically, the Regia Marina was superior to the Royal Navy in the Mediterranean. NEW SHIPS -1 battleship: the RM Roma(Littorio-class) -1 light cruiser/heavy destroyer: the RM Attilio Regolo(Capitani Romani-class) -5 destroyers: RM Bombardiere, RM Corsaro, RM Legionario, RM Mitragliere and RM Velite(all Soldato-class) Now the status of the fleet BATTLESHIPS -1 Conte di Cavour-class operational -2 Caio Duilio-class operational -3 Littorio-class operational CRUISERS WWI cruisers -Bari and Taranto still operational Heavy cruisers -Trento-class: 1 sunk(RM Trento during the battle of Mid June), 2 operational(RM Trieste and RM Bolzano) -Zara-class: the only ship left(RM Gorizia) was still operational Light cruisers -Da Giussano-class: the last remaining da-Giussano-class, RM Giovanni dalle Bande Nere, was sunk by a British sub near Lampedusa on April 1st -Cadorna-class: the Cadorna was still operational -Montecuccoli-class: 1 operational(RM Raimondo Montecuccoli), 1 sunk(RM Munzio Attendolo, destroyed during a bombing raid over the port of Naples on December 4th) -Duca d'Aosta: both operational -Duca degli Abruzzi: both operational DESTROYERS -Mirabello-class: 1 still operational -Sella-class: all operational -Turbine-class: the two remaining still operational -Navigatori-class: 3 were sunk(RM Usodimare sunk by friendly fire during an escort mission on June 8th, RM Pessagno sunk by a British sub during an escort mission on May 29th and RM da Verazzano sunk by a British sub during an escort mission on October 19th). The Pancaldo became again operational on December while the rest remained operational. -Freccia-class: 1 sunk(RM Folgore during a night engament with the Royal Navy on December 2nd), 1 damaged(RM Freccia, damaged by the explotion of a supply ship which was escorting on December 29th). The remaining ships were either on repairs/refits or operational -Maestrale-class: 1 sunk(RM Scirocco due to a storm on the way back from the second Battle of Sirte). The two remaining ships(RM Grecale and RM Maestrale) were operational -Oriani-class: the two remaining ships were refitted and then became operational again. -Soldati-class: I series: almost the remaining Soldati-class I series were refitted to increase the amount of AA guns. Two were lost(RM Lanciere lost in the same occasion of the RM Scirocco and RM Aviere sunk by a British sub near Tunisia on December 17th). II series: all the built II series were operational