Jump to content

Deamon93

Sailing Hamster
  • Content count

    3,123
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Battles

    1275

About Deamon93

  • Rank
    Commander
  • Birthday 10/17/1993
  • Insignia

Contact Methods

  • MSN
    ale.ponz@hotmail.it
  • Skype
    alessandro.ponzetto93

Profile Information

  • Gender
    Male
  • Location
    Turin, Italy

WG

  • Position
    ---

Recent Profile Visitors

2,737 profile views
  1. Fan made Italian tech tree

    Depends on the size. It goes from relatively small ships to the 14 torpedo tube Cagni-class (8 fore 6 aft). To achieve that the caliber was reduced from 533 mm to 450 mm, which won't be a big problem ingame (it would speed reload time while the alpha damage of the salvo would still be high). For reference on Cagni: http://www.navypedia.org/ships/italy/it_ss_cagni.htm
  2. Spanish Tech Tree Proposal

    I derped :D still that was what I meant
  3. Spanish Tech Tree Proposal

    Considering the most recent additions at tier VIII Canarias is inadequate, being overall more comparable to Pensacola (now at tier VI) rather than Baltimore (now at tier VIII)
  4. Fan made Italian tech tree

    I use the historical data to evaluate where changes need to be done and their extent. After all firepower alone is but a factor and I would rather look at the whole picture before tweaking the numbers. Lack of alternatives? What about the original design of Zara or the 4x2 203/53 Spanish CA? Those could compete at tier VIII without going back to the 152/55. There's nothing fictional required, other than the usual AA modifications for the former (after all Zara was originally designed in late '20s, when aircraft were considerably less sophisticated than what we have in the high tier CVs). They are at least more real than Roon and Hindenburg who came out from nowhere (only the primary armament turrets were designed, the rest around them is 100% made in WG) So? That was done to keep her at tier VI. It wasn't originally enough so they put more gizmos on in terms of abilities (same goes for Duca degli Abruzzi). The moment you have to put some serious gimmicks to keep a ship in a tier it proves said ship wasn't supposed to belong there in the first place. The only reason for that is cash because tier VI and VII premiums are more profitable
  5. Fan made Italian tech tree

    True enough but the US line is the only one with a reasonable CL line up to tier VIII: the Russian one goes all over the place, the British one is weird (firing AP only and all the funky mechanics of theirs) and the rest don't even have CLs from tier VII upwards (or V upwards in case of Japan). I personally hope WG will overhaul all that mess, at least in part (I doubt they would change the British CLs mechanics)
  6. Fan made Italian tech tree

    I was primarily referring to Helena coming in the not too distant future, a ship which is well protected and has 15x152 mm guns. Of the ones you stated Atlanta is weird by design (being armed with 127 mm guns), Fiji is weird because WG made her while Shchors is better armed overall but worse in protection (she is a downgrade relative to Budyonny on that regard).
  7. Fan made Italian tech tree

    WG did a lot of funky things but doesn't change the fact that the French tend to respect the various formulas and are much more relevant in the construction of the Italian line, simply because the two are historically linked (many ships wouldn't have been designed the way they were without the other). So? Duca d'Aosta has 1000 m/s muzzle velocity when historically she only got 850 m/s, that was a way (not the only one, she has a lot of funkyness) to push her up and gain more cash per unit sold. Duca degli Abruzzi had to go at tier VII and get even more funky due to the fact she would fight with much better CLs. Have you seen how much do you need to buff RoF to make Zara comparable to the latest tier VIII cruisers? Do you think that is better than dropping her to tier VII and put a replacement there? Have you provided arguments in favour of your statement? No because makes no sense to see Trento at a higher tier than Pensacola and Zara at a higher tier than Algerie, as proven by the numbers. To further prove the point here's the comparison between Trento, with her RoF buffed only to 4.5 rpm, and the tier VIs 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Ship Trento La Galissoniere Pensacola Aoba Budyonny Nuernberg Leander Tier VI VI VI VI VI VI VI Gun used 203/50 152/55 203/55 203/50 152/57 150/60 152/50 Number of guns on broadside 8 9 10 6 9 9 8 Rounds per minute 4,5 6,67 4 5,45 7,5 10 8 AP per shell 4600 3300 4600 4700 3300 3900 3100 HE per shell 2700 2200 2800 3300 2200 1700 0 Alpha Damage (AP) 36800 29700 46000 28200 29700 35100 24800 Alpha Damage (HE) 21600 19800 28000 19800 19800 15300 0 Damage per minute (AP) 165600 198099 184000 153690 222750 351000 198400 Damage per minute (HE) 97200 132066 112000 107910 148500 153000 0 Burn chance 13,00% 12,00% 14,00% 17,00% 12,00% 8,00% 0,00% Difference(%, relative to ship 1) Number of guns on broadside 0,00% 12,50% 25,00% -25,00% 12,50% 12,50% 0,00% Rounds per minute 0,00% 48,22% -11,11% 21,11% 66,67% 122,22% 77,78% AP per shell 0,00% -28,26% 0,00% 2,17% -28,26% -15,22% -32,61% HE per shell 0,00% -18,52% 3,70% 22,22% -18,52% -37,04% -100,00% Alpha Damage (AP) 0,00% -19,29% 25,00% -23,37% -19,29% -4,62% -32,61% Alpha Damage (HE) 0,00% -8,33% 29,63% -8,33% -8,33% -29,17% -100,00% Damage per minute (AP) 0,00% 19,63% 11,11% -7,19% 34,51% 111,96% 19,81% Damage per minute (HE) 0,00% 35,87% 15,23% 11,02% 52,78% 57,41% -100,00% Burn chance 0,00% -7,69% 7,69% 30,77% -7,69% -38,46% -100,00% She would be in the same ballpark of the other tier VI CAs (better than Aoba but worse than Pensacola in AP while being worse than both in HE). That is reasonable because you can't expect Trento to outperform a 10 gun cruiser in dpm while the Italian HE is notoriously bad. It is a sizeable buff from historical but not as sizeable as the one you would require to make her work at tier VIIs, where she would have to face better armored cruisers (most of the tier VIs are barely better than her on that regard, with a few exceptions).
  8. Fan made Italian tech tree

    I took the historical value, when I'm done compiling all the numbers I'll try to guestimate plausible gameplay stats. After all firepower is but an aspect of a ship and I would rather look at the whole picture, to avoid overbuff certain areas when it might not be warranted. It will take some time though, especially when protection is involved (I could use navypedia but not every ship is listed there, which complicates matters)
  9. Fan made Italian tech tree

    She would have 200 mm instead of 150 mm on the belt, torpedoes (I doubt they would make or break her but still good to have) and more HP (being considerably heavier). I think it might be enough to warrant her a spot with a less than ludicrous buff in firepower (most likely in the same ballpark of the one for Zara at tier VII). Sadly I don't know much about the original design so it's hard to comment on the specifics. We could also have the 4x2 Spanish CA over there, after all the two aren't mutually exclusive (the original Zara favours protection while the Spanish CA favours speed, with both having the same armament). Granted it would have been glorious a 37 knot cruiser with 200 mm belt but let's not be too greedy, otherwise we end up having an OP Italian cruiser and we can't have that
  10. Fan made Italian tech tree

    Roma hasn't been buffed at all http://photobucket.com/gallery/http://s1249.photobucket.com/user/Navweaps/media/Dispersione381.png.html The C column is reload time, as you can see they were perfectly capable of reloading in 30 seconds or so. I too originally placed the Condottieri at tier V-VI-VII but things have changed drastically since that time, hence why I adapted. To make you evident how much Zara has to be buffed to stay at tier VIII here's a direct comparison with every tier VIII ingame 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Ship Zara Charles Martel Baltimore Cleveland Mogami Mogami Chapayev Hipper(A) Hipper(B/C) Edimburgh Tier VII VIII VIII VIII VIII VIII VIII VIII VIII VIII Gun used 203/53 203/55 203/55 152/47 155/60 203/50 155/60 203/60 203/60 152/50 Number of guns on broadside 8 9 9 12 15 10 9 8 8 12 Rounds per minute 3,8 6 6 9,23 6 4 7,5 5,22 5,22 8 AP per shell 4900 4900 5000 3200 3300 4700 3300 5900 5900 3100 HE per shell 2700 2800 2800 2200 2600 3300 2200 2300 2500 0 Alpha Damage (AP) 39200 44100 45000 38400 49500 47000 29700 47200 47200 37200 Alpha Damage (HE) 21600 25200 25200 26400 39000 33000 19800 18400 20000 0 Damage per minute (AP) 148960 264600 270000 354432 297000 188000 222750 246384 246384 297600 Damage per minute (HE) 82080 151200 151200 243672 234000 132000 148500 96048 104400 0 Burn chance 13,00% 15,00% 14,00% 12,00% 12,00% 19,00% 12,00% 11,00% 13,00% 0,00% Difference(%, relative to ship 1) Number of guns on broadside 0,00% 12,50% 12,50% 50,00% 87,50% 25,00% 12,50% 0,00% 0,00% 50,00% Rounds per minute 0,00% 57,89% 57,89% 142,89% 57,89% 5,26% 97,37% 37,37% 37,37% 110,53% AP per shell 0,00% 0,00% 2,04% -34,69% -32,65% -4,08% -32,65% 20,41% 20,41% -36,73% HE per shell 0,00% 3,70% 3,70% -18,52% -3,70% 22,22% -18,52% -14,81% -7,41% -100,00% Alpha Damage (AP) 0,00% 12,50% 14,80% -2,04% 26,28% 19,90% -24,23% 20,41% 20,41% -5,10% Alpha Damage (HE) 0,00% 16,67% 16,67% 22,22% 80,56% 52,78% -8,33% -14,81% -7,41% -100,00% Damage per minute (AP) 0,00% 77,63% 81,26% 137,94% 99,38% 26,21% 49,54% 65,40% 65,40% 99,79% Damage per minute (HE) 0,00% 84,21% 84,21% 196,87% 185,09% 60,82% 80,92% 17,02% 27,19% -100,00% Burn chance 0,00% 15,38% 7,69% -7,69% -7,69% 46,15% -7,69% -15,38% 0,00% -100,00% As you can see every ship has a sizeable advantage in dpm, especially the most relevant for the tree construction (Charles Martel and Baltimore). Those two are way ahead as far as dpm is concerned while Zara isn't as ludicrously better protected. Just for lolz this is how fast Zara should fire to deal a comparable amount of damage to Charles Martel (being the lowest of the two): 264600*3.8/148960=6.75 rpm. That is a massive buff (77.63%), so massive that shows how utterly pointless it is to shove her in there. Granted you could go half way but it's still at least a 50% buff in RoF. For sake of completion here's Trento with the tier VIIs 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Ship Trento Algerie New Orleans Myoko Shchors Yorck Fiji Tier VI VII VII VII VII VII VII Gun used 203/50 203/50 203/55 203/50 152/57 210/45 152/50 Number of guns on broadside 8 8 9 10 12 8 12 Rounds per minute 3,4 5 4,61 4,29 7,5 5 8 AP per shell 4600 4800 4600 4700 3300 5500 3100 HE per shell 2700 2800 2800 3300 2200 2900 0 Alpha Damage (AP) 36800 38400 41400 47000 39600 44000 37200 Alpha Damage (HE) 21600 22400 25200 33000 26400 23200 0 Damage per minute (AP) 125120 192000 190854 201630 297000 220000 297600 Damage per minute (HE) 73440 112000 116172 141570 198000 116000 0 Burn chance 13,00% 15,00% 14,00% 17,00% 12,00% 12,00% 0,00% Difference(%, relative to ship 1) Number of guns on broadside 0,00% 0,00% 12,50% 25,00% 50,00% 0,00% 50,00% Rounds per minute 0,00% 47,06% 35,59% 26,18% 120,59% 47,06% 135,29% AP per shell 0,00% 4,35% 0,00% 2,17% -28,26% 19,57% -32,61% HE per shell 0,00% 3,70% 3,70% 22,22% -18,52% 7,41% -100,00% Alpha Damage (AP) 0,00% 4,35% 12,50% 27,72% 7,61% 19,57% 1,09% Alpha Damage (HE) 0,00% 3,70% 16,67% 52,78% 22,22% 7,41% -100,00% Damage per minute (AP) 0,00% 53,45% 52,54% 61,15% 137,37% 75,83% 137,85% Damage per minute (HE) 0,00% 52,51% 58,19% 92,77% 169,61% 57,95% -100,00% Burn chance 0,00% 15,38% 7,69% 30,77% -7,69% -7,69% -100,00% As you can see even Trento would require a lot of buffs to stick at tier VII, especially counting the fact she would be one of the largest and the worst protected. As such either the buff more than compensates the lack of survivability or she gets turned into Zara (ie buffs in both firepower and survivability). To complete this long statistical post here's the comparison between Zara and the the tier VIIs 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Ship Zara Algerie New Orleans Myoko Shchors Yorck Fiji Tier VII VII VII VII VII VII VII Gun used 203/53 203/50 203/55 203/50 152/57 210/45 152/50 Number of guns on broadside 8 8 9 10 12 8 12 Rounds per minute 3,8 5 4,61 4,29 7,5 5 8 AP per shell 4900 4800 4600 4700 3300 5500 3100 HE per shell 2700 2800 2800 3300 2200 2900 0 Alpha Damage (AP) 39200 38400 41400 47000 39600 44000 37200 Alpha Damage (HE) 21600 22400 25200 33000 26400 23200 0 Damage per minute (AP) 148960 192000 190854 201630 297000 220000 297600 Damage per minute (HE) 82080 112000 116172 141570 198000 116000 0 Burn chance 13,00% 15,00% 14,00% 17,00% 12,00% 12,00% 0,00% Difference(%, relative to ship 1) Number of guns on broadside 0,00% 0,00% 12,50% 25,00% 50,00% 0,00% 50,00% Rounds per minute 0,00% 31,58% 21,32% 12,89% 97,37% 31,58% 110,53% AP per shell 0,00% -2,04% -6,12% -4,08% -32,65% 12,24% -36,73% HE per shell 0,00% 3,70% 3,70% 22,22% -18,52% 7,41% -100,00% Alpha Damage (AP) 0,00% -2,04% 5,61% 19,90% 1,02% 12,24% -5,10% Alpha Damage (HE) 0,00% 3,70% 16,67% 52,78% 22,22% 7,41% -100,00% Damage per minute (AP) 0,00% 28,89% 28,12% 35,36% 99,38% 47,69% 99,79% Damage per minute (HE) 0,00% 36,45% 41,54% 72,48% 141,23% 41,33% -100,00% Burn chance 0,00% 15,38% 7,69% 30,77% -7,69% -7,69% -100,00% As you can see the differences are there but not as massive as with the tier VIIIs. A buff in RoF is still warranted but not as big as before, especially because she would have a substantial edge in terms of survivability. I'll provide the spreadsheet I've worked on as soon as possible, I just need to make it more presentable.
  11. Fan made Italian tech tree

    Don't worry, cold and maths don't go hand in hand :D
  12. Fan made Italian tech tree

    Making the calculation I guet 2727.68, rounding it up to 2700. Not that it matters all that much, after all the difference is below the significance level of 5%.
  13. Fan made Italian tech tree

    That's the formula I've used, this is the HE one 870.03 X (MASS (kg) X BURSTING CHARGE (kg)) ^ 0.1678
  14. Fan made Italian tech tree

    Because not wanting to put Zara under the same roof with Charles Martel and Baltimore is patriotism, right. Have you bothered checking their stats as well? Zara only edge is protection, which gets eroded at that tier (Charles Martel has a maximum thickness of 140 mm while Baltimore has 152 mm). In dpm on the other hand she gets already dwarfed by Algerie, which is a tier VII, so comparing her to the new tier VIIIs is utterly pointless (Charles Martel upgraded fires 6 rpm). You need to buff Zara to ludicrous levels to have her stick because her protection scheme won't compensate this massive disadvantage. On Algerie: it is impossible to say whether she is more powerful than Zara or the other way around, depends on how much dpm is valued over protection. I personally think the two are overall comparable enough, which isn't suprising since Algerie was designed and built in response to Zara. By the way which formulas have you used? Because with @piritskenyer corroborating the 4900 AP damage I can't exactly accept your numbers at face value.
  15. Fan made Italian tech tree

    I have the spreadsheet with all the guestimated stats and relevant formulas in the first post. It should still be relevant, unlike the comparison one (since I haven't updated it in years)
×