Beastofwar

WG is accepting Cruisers will take the brunt of the rocket attacks now, and BB will get farmed more as CV do not have to spend time on either attacking or defending DD anymore. A situation that can't last forever though as it will make players stop playing. I don't pity the XP pinata's BB but i do think Cruisers really did not need plane focus shifting to them...many are fragile vs BB as is and rely on concealment to stay safe. That is now brutaly being disrupted. Maybe we should issue a mass petition asking WG to remove rocket fighters and replace them with air supriority fighters that can hunt the other Cv's planes down. Make protecting the allied fleet a more important role again. I am sure they can think up some mechanic that will mimic a skilled dogfight without turning the game into WOWP.

I got your point where you dont even have to attack any DD......just clap the rest of the ships and hope your team mates can handle DD. They should because the other CV isn't killing DD either.... But this any CV can do, as none of them had 12 plane accurate rocket fighters as their special weapon that now got nerfed.......But this former wonderweapon still still works very well on light Cruisers like that Edinburgh btw.... So now DD laugh and (light) Cruisers cry. I am sure that Edinburgh was supporting the DD as he should and now gets punished as i am shooting HIM instead of the DD he is trying to protect ! WG logic...

Well there are enough DD players that do not think very hard.....like this one chasing me with 2 % HP left....yeah then Enterprise rocket planes ( any CV's rocket planes ) are still lethal as you only have to nick the DD to kill it.

If DD sit still she still can hit...... But there is a topic about it in NA forums too : it is finished as an OP ship. Only one perticular player is in a denial phase but that not really surprising. Time ( and number of future plays ) will tell.

Another strange collateral effect of the nerf, although it will be temporary : almost all CV are failing in ranked now trying to refind balance. It is rediculously easy winning or keeping your star just by killing anything else but DD

For some time i have developed a method of determining wether or not a ship is OP without having to look to uninteresting an meaningless WR ratings : i simply check if certain high profile players avoid a ship like the plague. That way a player could know the FDR is not really that powerful : many high profile players do avoid that ship like the plague. They would not do that if it was OP and had "carry potential" For me ofcourse it is no secret they hate the limiters that reduce the damage you can do over time too, but even more so having your weapons locked when you want to react to enemy action and too slow planes to rule the entirety of the map. If number of played battles in Enterprise of high profile players that spammed it in the past suddenly stagnates that is everything anyone needs to know about the impact of the nerf on Enterprise. It will coincide with a sudden increase of playing other CV that are less affected or still have HE bombs or fast torpedoes. UK CV for instance were unpopular....i expect that to change as they seem to have received soft-nefs just like Midway. I also saw many player suddenly like IJN CV a lot more and use torpedo bombers against DD. When will they discover the German tech tree CV have even better torpedo's against DD one wonders ? I expect the number of Enterprise plays to stagnate....now i need to check the coming weeks if that is truely the case.

To my surprise WG really axed the Enterprise. Maybe extremely skilled players can still hit DD here and there but their DPM will be too low ( it takes too long to kill a full HP DD in the new nerfed way ) keeping that up as a main means of getting a high score. AP divebombers and slow US torpedo's cannot be used to substitute the rocket planes versus DD either. As the most notorious DD killer it is finished. Which could be expected as rocket planes where its main weapon. Today i saw various Enterprise's players stuggle keeping away from the lowest place of all the 24 or 14 players on the scoreboard. I did not throw out fighters on allied DD on purpose and watched them miss, and miss, and miss.....sometimes doing marginal damage. That is what happens for the average players in it. But even "unicums" will not get the same yield out of it now as they did. The nerf really hit harder then some led us to believe. Still a decent performing CV though, if you don't insist on hunting DD with it.

I play DD too...finding out what to do is in my own interest as well

When the gun fire sprays the water - or your ship - the CV player already lost control of his planes. It is a good indication that the CV player cannot correct that aim anymore. Up to the DD player to determine if that is too late or just in time to evade in a surprise direction. Judging from the hard nerfed CV it may be in time, but with soft nerfed Midway i could still hit the stern of many DD.

Ok figured this out so far : DD players reaction ( player skill ) for the most part determines if they are hit. Soft nerfed CV like Midway may still spoof it while hard nerfed CV really will have to gamble what key the DD player is going to press, as skilled DD players will ofcourse not continue straight ahead and let themselves be aimed by leading ahead by the CV player. DD players : ~ 3 seconds before being hit press any of these keys : A, D or S. Never continue the heading ( or continue the turn ) you were going before ~ 3 seconds before being hit. Same goes for Cruisers and BB under siege by Tiny Tims but then ~ 5 seconds. Does that take DD player skill beyond pressing A, D or S ? Yes as they have to guess if the rocket strike is ~3 seconds away. ( or ~ 5 seconds ) Act too soon and the CV can make a better estimation where you are going.

In fact compared to ( slow ) torpedos with drop and travel time you cannot adjust after relaese anymore...yes. But not compared to (HE) dive bombers releasing low. So you can bet the "unicums" that depend on killing DD will resort to HE divebombing. Although the Midway is soft nerfed so the rockets are not that bad for that CV.

That is because these players have not learned yet to aim 1 bomb of the pattern at the DD at right-on-top-of-the-dd range and not all of them.....

True, dropped at 1st line ( closest to the planes ) or bewteen 1st and 2nd line minding the spaced drop pattern of the bombs so one bomb is aimed directly at the DD you can practically drop right on top of them for very high damage. No dive bomber can be more accurate then that....so one might better enjoyed it before the nerf ?

That is not how it works at all....only very low skilled DD that do not evade and continue their course can be hit after the nerf ( same goes for Cruisers and BB, but their rudder is slower ) with the most affected CV. "Unicums"" do not have crystal balls to fore see the future, so cannot foretell what key a DD player is going to press after their controls freeze prohibiting any correction.......A ? D ? S even ? A CV missing has now become a compentent DD player skill....not an "unicum" CV skill. Sure many low skill seal DD that do not evade or even sit still to be clubbed especially in randoms rabble ( meaningless WR ) ......sure you can sometimes guess/gamble right and hit what you could not have known to happen......sure you can still hit DD with soft-nerfed CV as some CV were barely affected ( Midway ! ) .......but that cannot hide versus compentent DD players CV players have lost supremacy. You will notice in ranked or CB where skilled DD players reside....

Selection on player skill level.. That kind of implies unbalanced matches ( all PvP modes ) could be set up by MM as well.......that many steamrolling ( win or lose ) did already give rise to the thought it always have been doing that. Same as losing after a number of steamrolling victories whatever you do, because your whole team suddenly lacks any skill.

Marceau is pure speed and guns ROF........imagine a drive by shooting by gangsters......that is what Marceau does to enemy DD and even larger ships. Floaty shell arcs do not matter if you audaciously race past them at short ranges and many DD die in the act of trying to torpedo you at short range. Launched torpedo's are often too slow to threaten you also. If i am not mistaken it has the reduced damage from shells French DD mechanic too because it has no smoke and it rather a large ship. Other then that is is an excellent remote/unguarded cap snatcher in ranked wich makes it very influential in lots of matches.....speed, speed, speed....and gun ROF. It that boat you need not fear Smalands if you do not make the mistake of fighting them at longer distances where the slow shells disadvantage you ...remember : close range drive by's obliterate other DD.... You tha O.G. gangsta ! Immelman skip bombing is a fun new mechanic and it can damage or kil DD and Light cruisers very well at the first drop line or between the 1st and the 2nd ( the bombs jump very low ) The bombs however are not very powerful vs large ships and the torpedo's are neither. I like to compare it to Indomitable : support type damage, not the most poweful CV around and interchangable with a (Super)Cruiser's damage. Marceau fun moment : ( note my AA is OFF vs CV and the shells arcs at close range targets are flat enough to rip up any DD )

I recall my negative comments on FDR.....something happend to the ship that makes it feel more flexible and usefull in regular PvP modes. The "rocket plane nerf" is most obvious as it changed the rocket mechanics of FDR in a positive way, but the rest of the play feels different too. Less clunky ? Maybe a strange notion as nothing else changed, but ninja nerfs or buffs that are not in patch notes are not uncommon. Maybe it is a placebo experience as only the rocket planes change already feel like a great improvement. Who knows...but i do not hate to play that CV any longer. And i can imagine other CV players coming from newly nerfed CV now have a less steep adaption proces to go through : the worst affected rocket planes now play very similar to FDR's new rocket plane attack. Pulled that 32 mm armour penetration from here https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Armor_thresholds i was not writing that out of own knowledge But then again i have been misunderstanding some skill desription texts and such......can always be wrong on things and i know that.

I am not against introduction of Submarines at all ( sorry ) but the things WG does now certainly hurt my enjoyful gameplay. Only DD seem unaffected up to now. That may be because the Submarines have become alomst a sub-DD class ( lol ) but i am not forgetting there are DD-killer type DD also. DD's that butcher "Submarine type" DD that are in existence now such as Asashio. And there are also (Light) Cruisers that are desinged to do that, albeit less dangerous in open water away from caps as they lack DD-killer DD extreme speed to fall upon slow and fragile Sumbarines everywhere in the map. So what the hell will be next ? And yes, i do enjoy various types of DD too, incl DD killer type DD.....so when these would get slapped with nerfs too, that hits me also and arguably even more because i feel all the other nerfs more then players that do not play CV or secondary BB/Cruisers and like i do : all of them.

If that is true and you were playing randoms, and have acces to ranked you may try that instead. Tactical play is far more rewarded there, where mass randoms ( walls of enemies everywhere ) punish you if you try. Unless you get your score with lobbing shells at distant targets.....that is a very randoms mode play style and of little individual match influence as it is a support type of play : when your key role team mates fail, you do also in a supporting role. For more match influence in all PvP game modes as individual player you proabbaly need to play the ships that decide match outcome more then any class : DD. Early exploding DD severly weaken teams by blinding them, making flanks crumble and caps to be taken by the enemy and cannot stop enemy steamrolls with torpedo's. Well played DD do the opposite and thus are the most influential ships in a PvP match. I am not kicking against long range playing BB now ( usually i call them campers ) as these in random matches have an important fuction in thinning out the wall of enemies on the other side that are limiting foreward movement. They are the artillery on the battlefield. But you must recognise their role is often limited to supporting key role players. If these fail ( when your spottes die you are blinded as best example ) you fail. So not much individual influence to be had there. And i do not have to describe how powerless BB become if they are the sole survivor against 1 or 2 enemy DD in late/end match : only unspeakable acts of witchcraft can save you there. And that situation is not rare.

Yes indeed. But i think further : what else could devastate low health and slow subs on the surface ? To such extend they will be outright butchered like the nerfed rocket planes were expected to have done ? It could be Submarines are supposed to be under water when they run into foreward DD's in general and engage in a new depth charge tactics cat&mouse play ...... But high speed RDF/RL killer type DD and high speed gun boat type DD will be extremely lethal to them everywhere in the map when on the surface ( as they are designed to kill stealth torpedo boat DD that are very similar to Submarines ) and the new Submarines are forced to be in the surface much of the time. So these predators are not really very different from rocket planes frankly as they once had the same thing on the menu and are very fast with low reaction time as well. What will happen to them seen the other things that could kill stealth torpedo boats ( = Submarines ) are being nerfed or even taken out of the equation entirely ?

Sorry for not being entirely on topic : If you already own an Atlanta ( 2 even ) does it make any sense to buy a Flint then ? Does the smoke make it different enough ?

It is true...when test playing it after the nerf it didn't really perform even after considerable effort. Planes fragile, HE rockets too weak vs Cruisers, torpedo's slow and not really powerful, AP bombs...well casino style RNG so practically nerfed to hell. I prefer the August von Percival over Graf Zeppelin now : the AP rockets can at least kill ( citadel ) Cruiser stationary island huggers, the torpedoes are razor fast and can sink DD and Cruisers and all other targets ( bit weak but enough hits doom anything ) and the bomsb have less casino RNG dropping mechanics.

Northern_Nightowl did you take into account which game mode you are asking about ? Randoms is extremely different then ranked for example. In Ranked agressive tactics and close range combat work ( and is even required ) because a wall of enemies everywhere is lacking and going around enemies and attacking them in the back or flank as a solo player is a real option. In randoms there is a wall of enemies everywhere that will shoot anything that pops into their view so agressive tactics can never work and all tactics are pointed at thinning the other side out before you can move more freely. Then it is logical that what works in ranked does not work in randoms, and the other way around. Then there is the point of which class you want to know ? And what type ? For example there are DD designed for fighting over caps that can do little else, and DD that are designed to slip through enemy lines and sink BB from stealth. And DD designed - and built= RDF/RL - to hunt and kill other DD whereever they are in the map. Stealth BB sinking DD cannot take on cap fighting or DD hunting DD ( and cannot fight over caps ) as their gun power is much weaker. And to complex things there are even DD that are suposed to sink enemies - even BB - with guns only. One class very differen tactics. For Cruisers is is the same, there are DD-in-cap killer Cruisers , AA "go wide around me and lose time or planes" Cruisers, enemy BB herassment Cruisers ( these lob fire at enemy BB's ) and Cruisers that block the enemy advance ( designed island huggers ) that can be AA or DD kileer as well. BB come in CQC and long range variations as well. So tactics are dependend on ship type, your build and mode and is too vast to even begin to write down. I nice last remark : while the CV player is often frowned upon, it gives the very best position to see everything being unfold and learn the most of tactics used and how they work or not work. You see enemies batteling each other in detail while flying over them that others do not see from surface perspective. You can see what is going to happen before it is happening as you can recognise what an enemy is up to far before those with only the mini map and their limited surface view can see. So maybe not your playing stype, but there is much to learn and see being up there. Perspective from the air is a great source of seeying what others do and learning from it so playing their class you can apply that too ! And even CV come with their own specific set of different natural targets and tactics. Some are very flexible ( US line ) some really focussed on one type of enemy or one type of munitions, such as fast and heavy torpedo's or AP munitions.

The nerf turns out to be an actual buff for FDR ! The once clunker extremely inaccurate very long range rocket firing is completely removed for in-line with other CV close range rocket attacks with the new control loss nerf effect. That is a nice plot change ! These rocket planes are now far more useable on Cruisers and BB that are not camping. IJN rocket planes now look more like the old FDR rocket planes, and FDR rocket planes look like what IJN rocket planes used to be.....mindboggling.... But FDR felt fresh and much better handling....so that is good !

Secondary builds come with CQC tactics, else they do not work. I you understand CQC tactics and got in optimal medium-short range unmolested, then Secondary builds do work. And yes running through campers that dont want to fight CQC is fun. It is also unlikely they survive that....either by the secondary build specific supriority in that range, or the ram.