Beastofwar

Hidden stats is my way of protesting against deep fake stat padding players that feel the need to belittle others on basis of illusion. Valid arguments are not based on crafted illusions. However much effort padding stats must have taken.....you only fool yourself with it. And some others it seems, so maybe it is worth your life time spend on it. Certainly not mine.

Not with a tiny HP pool. AP overpenetrations are even more damaging then HE 33 % non saturated penetrations, at least a LWM review showed that.

Then fly planes yourself and see how smart it is to machinegun DD guns......and don't come crying CV are overpowered.....in that case it is player stupidity that is causing that. And piss poor advice it seems. I do happen to see a lot of situations of sole surviving DD too when they are winning on points, the enemy BB can never see them before the time runs out...... that have to shoot their guns....and throw the match they were winning. That kind of stupid is firing guns when they can't kill.

Ah you mean the ones that don't need a concealement build anyway......because they are machininegunning their guns like some French Cruiser with ROF boost on steroids, while they aren't even sailing in a French DD that to such things by design.....And pepper targets with pop nail guns I like those....especially when overflying clouds they are in revealing exactly where they are, but out in the open it is good to see where DD at > 10 km are as well. They are much harder to find at ~3,5 km, or when not popping "here i am" smoke clouds....

You fail to mention what type of DD you refer to..... Removing your concealment all the time by firing guns in a stealth torpedo damage based DD you will fail to do proper damage every time. Not all DD have smoke ( or should select it if they have a choice ) and firing guns in smoke is often not the best idea as well. CV like that a lot for example....traces right back to where the DD is in the smoke. But when you do not use the guns of fast French mini Cruisers DD that have damage migating properties other DD do not have you do not use them correctly. Big difference.

This is against forum rules....it does not contribute to the discussion in any way.

Because it has become rare the knowledge how to deal with it is forgotten also. In general you just hose down the cloud which the tiny HP Smolenks does not take well. AP overpenetrations and 33 % HE penetrations of it's 16 mm plating area's kill it quick too. If you want to kill it with more skill then hosing down it's tiny HP pool, and it is visible when not in a cloud : Single layer of 70 mm citadel armour above the waterline......( IFHE skilled BB can just HE citadel it at any angle connecting with that armoured belt ) And just 50 mm citadel deck after overmatching 16 mm* side plating. * >240 mm AP can overmatch 16 mm at any angle, but it must come in at > 30 degrees for a chance on penetration of the 50 mm citadel roof.

CV kill fast because they also pack multiple allied Cruiser/BB salvo's ( that theoreticly could even mount up to be 1000k potential damage in Tier X matches ) that also comes down on an enemy target for spotting* that enemy target. Compared to that a CV's own weapons can be considered to be rediculous firecrackers. Ofcourse this also goes for stalking DD spotting the enemy fleet continuously while remaining invisible....... In fact a large portion of a CV's score can come from spotting damage, being only second to that of DD. In fact in DD i often get top 3 score without killing or even hitting any enemy ship with torpedo's, and it is not unknown to me when failing with a CV ( 40k damage or so ) still ending up top5 score list because if the spotted damage which can be well in excess of 300k. The CV's own damage it not that impressive, although it can stack high as they usually survive the lenght of matches and get time to stack that low chipping damage. * If there is anything that makes this more painfully clear then it is the assymetric mode CV bots.......they can't damage anything directly, but yet kill a lot of human players. By simply lighting them up so high tier heavy shelling follows as they can now focus against incoming enemies.

Only the ones with low HP trying to desengage from battle slipping into concealement. Because CV do low damage ( a pathetic combined 20k max potential damage for the most damaging AP bombs ) compared to a BB AP salvo that packs 12 x 12700 dmg = 152K potential damage !!!! And have you done the maths who can damage a target most often ? It is not like you can park a Tier X CV next to a Tier X enemy BB to compete with being able to fire 152K potential damage every ~29 seconds

Are Hakuryu's bombers OP ? Are GZ bombers OP ? In fact all CV with AP bombs ? No they are not.....they can bounce, shatter, hit torpedo protection for 0 damage, overpenetrate and above all miss. Just like any other aimed AP salvo....with a lot more potential damage in it. Complainers don't register the many above results.....they only see what happens if a bomb penetrates the citadel or magazine. And then howl it is OP......are AP shells OP when they do that ?

Very well worded. Only to add that some DD are in fact small Cruisers that are just classed "DD" with DD consumables and typical DD armour on them for game purposes. These will shred real DD and even light (support) Cruisers. Arguably when looking at the Atlanta and it's HP/armour one cannot escape the notion this is an oversized DD. Wikipedia more or less confirms that: The Atlanta-class ships were lightly armored, making them poor surface combatants compared to a typical light cruiser. In terms of armament, the Atlanta class was closer to a destroyer, being armed with 5-inch guns, than a light cruiser, which were generally equipped with 6-inch guns; but at well over 500 feet (152 m) in length, and combined with their large battery of sixteen 5-inch (127 mm) guns (reduced to twelve in number for later ships of the class), they were designated as light cruisers. Typical destroyers of the time only carried five or six 5-inch guns.[citation needed] Despite being under-armored for light cruisers, they had thicker armor than destroyers, which were notoriously underprotected.

Stats wise it is just a much slower Shimakaze with ever so slight faster guns with but slightly worse accuracy. It has far worse concealment and a far wider turn radius but a faster responding rudder. So one would say a tech tree Shimakaze offers something so similar....what is the fuss about ? That you can have acces to Tier X IJN DD without having acces to that tech tree tier ? Since you won't sneak up to Shimakaze ( worse concealment ) and that one gets the first aim and salvo in a 1:1 situation......is the slightly faster ROF still an advantage ? Think not....

Nope : massed HE main guns = burn to the waterline in seconds. However low tier HE shells they may be. Or your build....

Ofcourse there is room for them.....but with "torpedo DD'' you don't rush into contested caps but try to keep as far away from enemy DD and support Cruisers as you can. While seeking gaps where you can slip by them to find a way to plumping torpedo's into big juicy BB and CV targets. All that time your contribution to your team is lighting these BB up continiously so they can be shot by long range fire. While feeling you are completely passive ( clueless team members might mewl about that too ) it can be a match winning action if your allied BB can sink enemy BB or cruiser because of it. When remaining completely concealed you can take caps behind enemies backs aswell. Stealth is what you strive for then.....not gunfighting other DD. You don't touch your guns. You don't lauch waves of torpedo's either, if they won't kill the target that sees them coming.....as everything and their mother will come hunting you, blowing any opportunity further stalking around out the window. You often do stumble into enemy "torpedo DD" doing the same thing. These are not gunfighters either. Then you will have to gunfight, no choice anyway. Certainly not with deepwater torpedo DD that can't hit DD and Cruisers. RDF packing DD killer DD/Cruisers are your enemy. They block your path trying to slip them by. Nothing to do but try light them up ( being concealed better ) and hope your side takes them out. For example the asymetric battle mode being on the high tier so outnumbered badly.....i was enjoying killing 2 BB right in the middle of Cruisers.....DW torps.......which went well untill some Aoba started chasing downstream of the torpedo's ( hence the rule never launch waves of torpedo's at targets that will survive it as you will be hunted after that ) .... I thought i easily outrun it.....not remembering it can be actually faster with a damned flag Would i have been observing my own rules it would have endend differently as i would have killed all their BB.

Up until now i laughed at the high tier bot CV : It does not attack most of the time, and when it does it misses most of the time. But that was in ships with decent hitpoints able to withstand some enemy surface ship fire toward me untill AA destroyed the spotting bot CV planes....and that is usually fast as i do pack BFT/AFT as standard. Now i am trying DD and the situation changed. The damn bot CV still can't hit me or pose a threat directly, BUT THEY HAVE RDF ON THEIR PLANES !!! Seriously, hidden by concealment, or smoked it make no difference to AI......after launching it comes right at you like it is guided and then circles the cloud if you layed one. This coming straight for you behaviour is killing as both bot and human ships - and their massed secondaries if enemies are packed together - will focus fire on you when you get spotted. The difference being human CV would spot you too ofcourse, but they don't know where you are after launching from the CV like these bots do, and might fly you by at ~ 3,5 km without detecting you at all. In PvP you learn to switch your AA off to not draw enemy CV toward you. In this mode you had better turn it on as bot Cv planes come straight at you anyway, and the faster the spotting bot CV planes die, the sooner you can get concealment back before you are destroyed by enemy surface ship fire. These damn bots are like homing spotter drones.....and with that they are very dangerous indeed.

The torpedo bombers of the Lowenhardt have snail slow torpedo's ( 32 knots ) contrary to the german CV tech tree ones that are 20 (!) knots faster. They also do only a mere fraction damage more, 133 damage per torpedo not even coming close to compensating for that. When looking that the differences one perticulair one becomes apparent : the Lowenhardt's torpedo's have a range of 6 km, where most CV at that tier have a mere 2,5 km. What is 6 km good for ? Well at that tier the most common AA range is 3,5 up to 5,8 km. So in theory you could drop torpedo's out of AA range. IF you could hit anyhting other then an AFK player or an unsuspecting camper with such slow torpedo's. But not even that...... to hit with BOTH torpedo's at an extremely large target like a broadside CV you need to close in to 2,8 km anyways. So if at all "sniping out of AA range" it's only with 1 torpedo crawling though the water no faster then a turtle. For a whopping fraction ( minus what torpedo bulkheads will eat ) of 4200 damage..... WG punished the planes really hard for the ship having 4 x 150 mm + 10 x 105 mm guns it seems.......it seems to be really an Operations boat where the guns at least are useful. I do wonder what theory goes behind the design of features such as this........or would they actually have meant it as an Operations ship ?

When you think of it : - throwing out a fighter consumable behind you, making allied fighters jump your persuiers from higher altitude is something you can do right now already. It is realistic as in fighter cover would often be in a potential energy state, thus above the escorted. - rear gunners ( which are modelled in the slower planes ) would not require all that much changes : they could act as short range AA around the plane with continuous AA damage model that is already there in ships. - fast planes without gunners should just drop munitions (they dont have droptanks ) in the sea and then outrun fighters The whole thing is how human controlled fighters should attack. Air lane strafing should be out of the question : it was horrible and unrealistic. ( boom&zoom surely existed but that didn't mow down whole squadrons )

- Rediculously wide spaced torpedo drop of only 2 torpedo's that are ultra easy to evade ( PvP as well as bot ) - Slow torpedo's that are ultra easy to evade ( PvP as well as bot ) - GZ bomb fall pattern, although HE allows for low drops without penalty so you can use broadside and bow/stern approach. For above reasons only 1 weapon will reliably hit most of the time. ( you see that occuring in the video above too, while it is obviously a very skilled CV player ) Take into account most users will not be "unicum's" and being so has no value to evaluate a ship for non-"unicums" as they cannot make the ship perform in that way. Redeeming factors - DD/Cruiser/Fort killing guns. 4 x 150 mm 38 mm penetration max 7,2 km range 10 x 105 mm 26 mm penetration max 7,2 km range Armoured as a light Cruiser 20 mm plating 100 mm belt submerged citadel If you ask me the ship is punished hard for the being a Cruiser-in-disguise part, while it is not very usable in PvP unless circumstancial ( late match cap conquering, ranked modes like 1 vs 1 or 3 vs 3 ) The Weser is much more like normal CV are constructed and it's planes are much more powerful in PvP. Go figure why Lowenhardst planes are that different. Not complaining in as in some Operations this savage beast takes the point of the advance and destroys all around the ship while the team mates are hard pressed to keep up and get a score at all. Even in Newport when positioned well it can stop DD and light Cruiser bay penetrations all by itself. Making 5 star wins all that more attainable in that often mass failed Ops. But in PvP it dissapoints as can be expected as humans have no problems dealing with unconcealed Cruisers at range. This is obviously a skilled CV player ( but note despite that he often hits with only 1 weapon of the 2 dropped, or only causes incapacitations by missing ) and then 116 K damage is decent but isn't all that much......This player might have reached or exceeding 200K in Weser for the same effort. So less skilled players get far less then even 116 k damage.

Dig into ship stats in detail yourself and find what is usefull to you but others are maybe overlooking. Take future captain skill changes into account also. While LWM has very interesting info she looks at ships with a certain point of view. So do many CC. Why they are not always right you can see if you look up the stats of top players of "trash/meh" branded ships. Obviously they are doing something different with such ships be it tactics or build that others do not see or recognise.

Come on the bot CV are (almost*) harmless.....exactly as you like CV is it not ? * They still managed to get me killed by spotting for human controlled BB's......

Finally.....UNLIMITED (AA) POWAH !!!! Although the commander clearly is in need of more training, but he had to be taken from a lenghtly campaign task wall first ofc... getting 20 airkills in this thing to proc the talent must be easy peasy. It will have a full AA build ofc.

And neither are divisions possible ....your point being ?

Hell no, not using this mode for fake stats padding ! By the way "good" players in such divisions ? Taking away any challenge makes you a "good player" ?? I joined Operations channel groups a lot as they always result in 5 star victories.....and it is boring as hell. No challenge in ROFLSTOMPS. And those groups arent even voice com coordinated......you know the difference that made Germany win WWII initially with inferior toy tanks. Because their enemy had to communicate with flags....

Although Lutjens is extremly usefull with his talents ( in Operations without a healing merchant reapir ship among others repairing a CV multiple times when agressively using it's guns asif it is a heavy Cruiser ) proccing all the time, And Kutzenetsov killed many adversary BB in PvP with his "refuse to die" talent during brawling that allows for an extremely "illegal" killer blow with very close range russian big guns while he should be sinking himself snatching enemy victory/kill away, i say new ships are worth the coals far more.

Players aren't using the product you mean. They ignore what is there. And frankly even i don't know what happens if you take all listed.....