Beastofwar

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They just dislike everything that flies through the air that is not a devastating strike AP salvo or burning to the waterline HE salvo........they cannot be understood as it is irrational. And if that is not irrational enough, then it is the fact they keep playing the game as it is obvious they will not get ( removal of planes ) what they want. I have news for them : a developer of games like this will never stop introducing new and novel mechanics. A game needs that to remain relevant and attractive for most of the players. Submarines is not the last thing you will have to account with....and removal of planes a non-existent possibility. I can forsee sea mine laying will be introduced somewhere in future too. As that was a very important task many Destroyers and (ligh) Cruisers were busy with lots of their operational time. And many warships were sunk by them. And to add to that : most if not all ships in game have the counter measure* already moddeled on their decks (!) which they have in common with DC racks and lauchers on DD far before word got out Subs would be in game. *

Does it have anything to do with popular temporary modes sucking either above average or below average players away from randoms ? We had quite popular 3 vs 3 randoms, and now asymetric battles. Both can cause fluctuations in random matches. If you are higher skilled then the rest of both enemy and allied team left in random matches you would win more. So that is not it. When it is the higher skilled players remain in random matches but your skill is lower, you lose more.

As i understood from the "waifu" joke references of that Cruiser line that such Cruisers are not supposed to fire guns in open water but scrape along islands. Then stick some guns out, radar the cap, shoot the DD and retreat back to rock cover when retaliating fire is incoming. Or fire over the island when it is low enough on more distant targets like support Cruisers and BB. You can read that in WG's wows wiki too : https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Des_Moines "While Des Moines has impressive firepower and AA, her maneuverability is mediocre and her armor is terrible. With a standard cruiser speed of 33 kts and fast base rudder shift time of 8.6 seconds, Des Moines can evade incoming shells and torpedoes relatively well. However, while she can turn well, the speed loss on turning is massive enough to make her an easy target for any other ship with their guns loaded and ready. Additionally, with her 27mm armor belt (as opposed to Zao and Hindenburg’s 30mm or Moskva’s 50mm) this makes her very susceptible to most battleship AP shells at most ranges. Additionally, because of how flat her bow is designed in comparison to the other Tier X heavy cruisers, this makes her extremely susceptible to enemy battleship AP shells being able to penetrate her citadel through her bow. In contrast to her weak points, the Des Moines high shell arc and gun layout gives her a unique advantage that her cruiser colleagues at her tier lack and as such she is capable of weighing anchor behind an island and lob shells over the island at distant targets with relative safety. Should the island be too tall, one can also park the ship around the corner of an island while bow on to act as a deterrent to advancing enemy ships, while presenting a relatively small profile. Exploiting this technique allows one to turn a disadvantage into an advantage. Additionally, firing AP shells at bigger targets such as battleships can deal a surprising amount of damage in such a short time. However, it is recommended to do so only when she is close enough to have the rounds deal maximum penetration or if the target is broadside. Furthermore, given her rate of fire and decent fire chance, this makes Des Moines a deadly flamethrower to battleships within reach." Alaska is different, it has the armour to fight other Cruisers in open water. Dueling non-distracted BB with a Cruiser always seems like a bad idea although some notorious fire breathing Cruisers still can. That may change with the captain skill rework as fire chance will be considerable lowered. After that Cruisers are supposed to fight Cruisers and DD as they should. And use torpedo's ( if they have them ) to kill BB.

It will be quite refreshing using hybrid ships that can lauch controlable planes. Obviously they won't be anywhere as effective with planes as CV and not anywhere as effective as real BB because main gun turrets will be missing. So you probably will have to work much harder to get near the normal score of both. But ships don't need to be the latest "best of the best" to fit in game. Only different enough to make the game more interesting.

Good team play for me is also watching what team members are doing and if possible help them to achieve what they are doing if that is helpful to the team chance of winning and thereby ultimately helping yourself. In a CV that is often easy......full force attacking an enemy advancing push can help the guys facing that a lot. Throwing out fighter consumables over low HP retreating allies to give them time to repair. And so on..... In a BB overextending i was saved by a DD rather then that guy mocking me for being there in the first place. Since i wasn't firing guns anymore the smokescreen he put up was working so i could disengage and repair from pretty low HP and come back and get up to 80+ K damage and be afloat when we won. Such action everyone can appriciate i recon.....it is much better to play that way then everyone for himself.

Very well "worded"

And i though i was the only one doing that....

Except they are not unreliable when you use them at the correct range. Like most Russian BB that would be medium-short range. 12 x 380 mm do not fail you at all at medium-short range. They rip stuff up in exteme ways. Just like most of the Russian BB guns. It is how Puerto Rico rolls too, but then targetting Cruisers specifically. The fail way to play Pommern is to try to shoot things at it's guns 100 % maximum range up to 60 % of maximum range. Then you can irritate yourself looking at the 12 shells sprayed all over the place, except on the target. You will literally hit only at random. But to brand it "trash" for that reason one either 1) Has no clue how to play it or 2) Does know how to play it but one does not want to play that way or 3) Only has optimal performance in Randoms and Clan battles in mind. I think reason 3 is most common, and it has a point as that is the main game mode, and the other modes are unavailable most of the time. ( hence the very on point topic "What are you going to do with it after ranked ?" ) Then again if you only want to play "the best of the best" ships in randoms ( in clan battles it is more understandable ) because you live in fear of getting lower WR you can only play a handful of select ships. To me that would be extremely unenjoyable with 180 ships in port. And many of them are rarely used even now.

Pommern is a real brawler. The 12 x 380 are no good for long range shooting due to rediculous inaccuracy but medium-close range they rip stuff apart. So for player looking for a regular BB that can fist camp at range and then close in it will disappoint as the range thing just won't work. That is why in modes such as the recent 3 vs 3 ranked where you can get close unmolested such ships brutely rule the match. In randoms it is much harder to make it work because you will have to find a way to get closer while staying unmolested. Georgia is better balanced in that it can fight long range and medium range but it is not a short range brawler. It has nice secondaries, but secondries always lose out to torpedo armed ships in torpedo ranges.

I have seen 3rd party stats sites ( such as wows stats eu ) keep an oversight on such things, if you have public stats.

I want otherwise unobtainable ships very much but i can't get myself to reset Tier X ships i just got/barely played.

The only ones that fail at killing waves of DD if whole teams are made up of them are Saipan ( Tiny Tim require larger targets ) Indomitable ( damned fighters turn as oil tankers ) and the German AP fighters. The rest of the CV should be able to kill at least 2-5 low tier DD and have had a heavy hand in damaging of the rest killed by allies.... Then there is what happens when the desperate band of ravaged DD do reach the CV......when it is a moving German CV their chances are still very low. When it is a Saipan they can smile and enjoy victory. That is why of yet victory in a Saipan eludes me.....it also gets pitted against 10 or 11 DD all the time as well. Which can't be a coincidence. Do note that as low tier DD or Cruiser the French Tier VIII gunship DD ( doing 50+ knots whith guns on reload boost ) are your nightmare enemy. Not even CV....

A division of regular players will not influence anything no. But one with 3 skilled and voice comms coordinated players and ofcourse with select combinations of ships that strenghten each others abilities can collapse flanks in randoms all by themselves. Or cause other inbalances that cause defeat in the other team. A forum member already proved what happens if you sychro-drop your clan into 1 side...... ( which was easy as humans go before bots...still works in some hours of the day for sure )

Well recently we are rid of the bots.....did this improve the modes balance fairness ? No ?

A voice com well coordinated team will butcher any enemy on the other team and enjoy undeserved victories continuously. If MM only allowed strict division vs divison weighing combined WR's against each counter division to establish a fair balance.....but allas, it does not do that at all. Griefer clubbing the result. So not allowing it is a good decision. It should be removed from randoms too, if above condition cannot be enforced. Voice com coordinated players have their own dedicated game modes against fair opponents that are using that too in clan battles already.

It seems completly reversed since the first days when bots still filled the high tier teams.......but not because a few high tiers ships vs a lot of low tier ships are more powerful......because of the low tier refusal to mass advance & zerg them. It seems the low tiers think they can camp their way to victory which will never work in this mode. Although the makeup of the teams over which you have no influence at all has a lot to do with the outcome. High BB vs no multiple low DD = bad thing as torpedo's stop charging BB better then slow fires. . Low DD vs High CV and DD killer DD/Cruisers = bad thing since they can butcher low HP ships fast with high ROF/damage. To crush your enemies ( barely fired a shot !! ) and see them driven before you..... did Sun Tzu mean this by “The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” ?

I see an error ( for over 2+ days now ) when i want to visit my clan port so see how oil gathering is going with receiving all the event chests........an i wonder if oil gathering for receiving chests is processed at all ! Or is this maybe the cause of that function to go down in the 1st place ?

Depends what you do with it......150 mm on lower tier German DD have a distict advantage killing concrete forts at longer range then 1,5 km in Operations. But Z23 is a tier 8...... It all depends what you want to hurt...... - All DD can shoot all* DD ( 19 mm hull ) now, without IFHE. * 1 tier X exception as it has a strip of 50 m armour and is still a DD. - German DD can hurt bow, stern and casemate ( 25 mm ) plating of Cruisers too, without IFHE - Other nations DD cannot penetrate 25 mm Cruiser/BB plating and then need IFHE. That would be Cossack as well. - If you want to damage 27 mm Cruiser/BB plating you need IFHE for non German DD guns if they can pass that treshold at all. - If you want to damage 32 mm BB plating will need IFHE for non German DD guns if they can pass that treshold at all. Do note that if you take IFHE and penetrate plating, you do 33 % of the shells damage and that is often around ~700 damage per shell for DD caliber guns......if that area is damage saturaded ( black burned ) then you do only 16 % of shell damage. And that would be as low as ~300 per shell. So you wil need a lot of hits to wear a 30.000 to 50.000 HP Cruiser down with that......probably why IFHE is ababdoned alltogether in favor of hoping for fires that do not get extinghuished. Yet for a mere lone DD to start 3-4 fires that kill a full HP Cruiser ? Unlikely if they are not specific extreme ROF gunboats that can avoid/migate retun fire. That is why as DD you probably should use torpedo's against large ships though, and IFHE does give a reliable* opportunity of finishing very low HP ships off if they barely survive the torpedos. *IFHE will allow a DD to hit an enemy ship everywhere and at any angle except for the armoured belt, as long as IFHE passes that platings thickness treshold. Often that is almost 90 % of the ship above the waterline where without IFHE you can only hit the superstructure ( 19 mm plating max ) that will be quickly damage saturated. ( the ~300 damage shots )

AP German CV have anything to do with that ? Score wise it is not advisable not to target DD.....damaging them is worth more then big numbers on big ships. It is also not advisable for winning chance once they get to lauch at the larger allies...... That is why i seem to lose in German CV more then in other CV....i do not attack full HP DD with German AP fighters as that is virtually useless. I will kill a low HP DD of opportunity, but that is an entirely different thing then relentlessy hunting them with HE rockets.

What it learned me is Tier VIII ships are just as vulnerable to mass focus then anything else. In this game being focussed = destroyed. That is why (high tier ) random mode can be so unenjoyable as you virtually have no freedom to move freely or as tactical as you would like, and modes with lower numbers ( ranked ) of players such a thrill and extemely enjoyable. Typical randoms mode ( or any mode with a lot of enemies in 1 team ) targetting the first that pops up in view : Other then that the mode is not unbalanced by faulty design : at first low tier almost always won because high tier was filled with bots as few player had enough tokens to play high tier all the time. Now players seem to have amassed enough tokens and it's the other way around : bots fill low tier team and they almost always lose. So the weakness seem to be bots and WG refusal to make players wait for MM (too) long......not the design of the mode. That does not bode well if WG intends to use them to fill missing humans in higher tiers in randoms. Without them getting much improved AI/coding. Btw : i read bring a low tier DD a lot.....although it can work against an enemy with all BB in their team it is no magic formula. Low tier DD = extreme low HP DD......there are Tier VII/VIIIships that excell in fast butchery of fragile ships as well.

I actually did something i never thought i would do : last few weeks i purchached several T5 ships...... Luckily low tiers also have also low prices. Veribus Unitus was one of them. But also Krasny Krym and Othoknik. In their respective classes they are very strong and have some unique features. Never knew about them or was interested.....yet they offer what Tier X often does not for me. That is why i appriciate the new campaign too.....some ships seem alien with their "primitive" guns, armoured gate hatches and the outer lines of ships using steam expansion engines. It is actually a fresh breeze in the midst of all that "modern"" stuff that ever gets more range and plays more campy.

I made fun of WG reality in this game. I did not mean to make fun in any way of the real Russian Navy and what they did in history. In fact what WG does with adding "what if" ships is downplay the real ones, that end up as arcade botes of lower levels. They might put more effort into giving these lower tiers ships actual ( Operations, Scenario's ) modes that do them justice, which is ofcourse not high paced low tier random mode filled with new and learning players that are at that tier for a few hours only.

This bit is damned funny : Service with the Soviet Navy Royal Sovereign as Arkhangelsk After returning to Britain, Royal Sovereign was sent to the naval base in Scapa Flow.[54] On 30 May 1944 she was transferred on loan to the Soviet Navy as Arkhangelsk in lieu of war reparations from Italy. The ship left Britain on 17 August 1944 as part of the escort for Convoy JW 59, which contained thirty-three merchant vessels.[55] Six days later, while still en route, the convoy was attacked by the U-boat U-711. The submarine's captain, Hans-Günther Lange, incorrectly reported hits on Arkhangelsk and a destroyer,[56] though his torpedoes had exploded prematurely.[57] Under the impression that they had crippled the battleship, the Germans launched several submarine attacks on the ship while she was moored in Kola. Anti-torpedo nets ensured that the attacks failed, however.[56] The Germans then planned to use six Biber midget submarines to attack the ship, but mechanical difficulties eventually forced the cancellation of the plan. Regardless, Arkhangelsk had already departed Kola to patrol the White Sea by the time the Bibers would have arrived.[58] A Soviet crew commissioned the ship on 29 August 1944 at Polyarny. Arkhangelsk was the largest ship in the Soviet fleet during the war.[59] While in Soviet service, she was the flagship of Admiral Gordey Levchenko and was tasked with meeting Allied convoys in the Arctic Ocean and escorting them into Kola.[60] Soooo....a Revenge class is all they really had....

From 280 mm up you can overmatch 19 mm of armour from any angle. That means you can just penetrate every ships superstructure in the game with 280+ mm. So angeling will only protect aganst citadels and bow/stern overmatches if that is 25+ mm but not make you immune to you ships HP being attacked. This is taken form the Odins review of LWM. It indicates AP shells do far more damage penetrating plating then HE shells. Even when they do not citadel ofcourse. Since you can clearly damage all ships in game with 280+ mm AP overmatching their superstructure, and those shells still do more damage when the part is damage saturated, why would you fling HE ? And especially as LWM remarks at target that won't burn very long if at all.