Beastofwar

Wut ??? They avoid the FLAK part of AA yes, or they would all be destroyed before dropping. WG tested that to extend ofcourse. But FLAK does not kill most of my planes, it is the undodegable part of AA that does that....and that is boosted by DFAA and captain skills too. I think that would not be different for these air strike consumables. it is simply their approach time against the continuous AA killing power of the ship. And the parachute drop time vs the ships speed. If not.....yeah then it is probably too radical in it's tested form. But these things are not available for normal players yet...who knows what will still change before they appear in game for everyone.

I think WG is trying to correct too much camping going on. Which they caused themselves with Deadeye skill and such..... As i said they are served by ruffling up the "meta" always so you will always have to adapt to a new balance, and spend money one way or another to do it. The larger your ego is, the more likely is that you will spend money to save your WR.

Have we already examples of what happens to a DFAA equipped, narrow hull Light Cruiser ( the ones that are supposed to be behind rocks ) that actually put 6 points into AA captain skill to boost that DFAA ? I bet we will see different things then....not only in how many bombs drop, but also in how many bombs actually hit. No narrow hull and no ( skilled into ) DFAA.....what are you doing behind a rock then ??? And those 6 points into DFAA are never wasted if hiding behind rocks often ......regular CV take an interest in knocking those enemies out of position too ( the German AP rocket planes never get old flying around an island to punch rockets into a non-moving perfectly still sitting duck ) ......You should have an oversight or all the raging and reports i got killing rock hiding Cruisers that did not put 6 points in DFAA.....if they do i leave them well alone lol.....

Glass cannon. They work better in modes where enemies allow to be flanked and citadelled as they do have frightning amounts of AP firepower to exposed Cruiser flanks, so either Coop or Operations. I'm regrinding the RU Cruiser line for the 3rd time, but a good part of it in Operations where they are a joy to play. In randoms they are often more a horrible experience because they are so fragile and human players know that and use that against you. But original question is about hosing down soft parts of BB as a mid tier Cruiser ? That is something out of desperation, certainly if WG saw fit to clap a low fire chance on the shells. And i believe RU Cruisers have a low fire chance, to emphasize on their AP performance ( against cruisers ! ) . On later ships IFHE seems not to be that punishing at all : low fire chance or lower fire chance.....you better do something else withthem then hosing down BB. So change targets.....or modes.

Well this stuff is coming wether campers ( i read the ""how to git gut" tutorial in another part of the forums, that kind of passive play is *now* discouraged by WG design with things like FDR and this Air strike mechanic...and later submarines as well ) like it or not. You either move with large ships or get ruffled up quite nicely. And some screaming mouthfoaming CC was not bombed in a sleek hull light AA Cruiser, the type that is actually designed to use rock cover and will be missed by most inaccurate muntions like Air Strikes and FDR attacks. .......he was bombed in a very large, BB sized Supercruiser. Same goes for other examples....simply dont sit still in these things.....or you get what you sollicit for.

And then you are stuck spamming only 1 CV : Enterprise ? Good luck finding enjoyment in such limited experience......

That......crated myths sell......some even throw insane amounts of cash ( thousands of euro's/dollars) to get such ships from crates. Only to discover that they are merely marginally if at all better then some rival ships. My "mythical" Enterprise performs exactly the same ( 60 % WR ) as my "oridinary" tech tree Lexington as well. Goes for the "mythical" Belfast and plain tech tree Fiji too.....these ships differ from each other, but only in subtle ways that not suddenly transforms them into unfair winning machines. That ships that are marginally better attract WR minded players, and as a result get overal higher WR then ordinary ships is very logical....but not proof these ships are OP....their occupants are just better then average as the ships they use are less common then ships every ( all those below average ) player uses. WR is a very .....statistical thing....and Smallands are rather rare...small sample size blah blah.... Btw : is there really anyone that truely thinks FDR are OP ships as well ? Explain to me why many "unicums" avoid playing that ship like the plague ( after having some low amount of matches in it ) .....and no, they are not suddenly concerned with ethics or fairness toward other players Yet everyone can see coming that thing will be crated and mythicalized ( as a steel CV it is relative rare ) too.....rather sooner then later. Yet it's WR at this moment ( despite is is falling ) is higher then other CV. No it is not the ship itself aswell, a cluncky unenjoyable piece of frustration with 20 sec attack lock, slow planes and absurd wide reticlues that can only hit large targets ...or small ones by pure RNG.....it is the kind of players in it, that could spend that kind of steel on a CV....It is the same for that amount of FreeXP and DD.....

Both Haida and Orkan have a secondary gun turret instead of a valuable 2nd torpedo launcher or a main gun turret.. This alone is a designed hefty nerf to their performance ofcourse, but on top of that both also have an unreasonable low range of only 4 km. I don't know what other DD captains are doing, but i usually fight at longer ranges then 4 km to have reaction time dealing with incoming torpedoes. These secondary guns therefore are completely useless with 4 km range, and i do not like having useless things on my ships. IRL every kilo of weight, certainly above the center of gravity better had use too ! Both these ships are pre-captain skill rework as well. That means before the captain skill rework the statistics of these guns could be boosted - BFT and AFT - and they were likely balanced with those options in mind. But that option is no longer there. Is this an oversight due to the captain skill rework ? Can the now missing BFT/AFT values be corrected in these guns ? Knowing how (in)accurate secondary guns spray, plus their inability to penetrate 19 mm DD hulls i hardly expect this to overpower these DD's. But at least these guns will do something usefull then taking up space that should have been a 2nd torpedo laucher or a main gun turret !

BB should draw - some - fire off more vulnerable teammates like Cruisers and DD. When they are not doing that by hiding behind islands Cruisers and DD are destroyed. That is a gameplay fail on account of the BB. Yet they manage to blame the ones that are blapped because of their hiding ( in the back or behind an island ) But insanely are punished by being blinded because the destruction of their spotters but never learn from it.

And i say my Marceau and Paolo Emilio (!) had little trouble dealing with an enviroment with lots of Smallands. Helped by the fact i don't need to engage them alone ofcourse....

There is no advantage of players blocking their guns with islands. This i can know too......it frustrates me both in DD ( no support vs DD and Cruisers ) and in CV ( no support against DD defending AA cruisers ) I also know there is a difference between ranked ( happens far less often ) then in randoms ( you are likely left to fend on your own ) Nowadays when i see teammates blocking their guns with islands i leave that cap and will try to get a decent score in another way, win or lose. Both in DD and CV ( planes ofc ) So i am happy by default something will be done against that counter productive behaviour on a meta scale.

To my knowledge Atlanta and Flint gun range were ( eventually, first Atlanta and now Flint too ) compensated by increasing their stock range.

No it punishes large Cruisers and large BB behind rocks.....there are not a lot of rocks further back. I can know......i always look for that 1st thing to prevent being clapped by Mushashi divs when in CV......

WG seems to simply ruffle up the "meta" always, so you always need to spend money on new ships and captains skills and what not to adapt. Add to that many players are prone to ego matters like dropping WR with introduction of mechanics that endanger their good result playstyle up to then and the puppets are dancing. That is why getting overly frustrated over the "new insane mechanic" is very much a useless thing. They are 100 % sure to do that because you will spend money to correct what is ""done to you"" But players like me simply like to have a lot of variation too......the more mechanics to try and master ingame, the merrier. I am waiting for strike plane carrying Cruisers and BB, submarines and sea mines......as they belong in naval warfare too. And i know ( overly ) WR-minded players will hate these things, as they will sink them and touch their ego, and force them to adapt to restore that WR ( ego ) WG knows of these things well...it is how they make money. And we keep playing it, and why would we do that if we truely could not stand the game anymore ?

I can parry that by stating really good players are 1) rare ( not called "unicum" for nothing after all which would be a meaningless term if there were many of them ) 2) will do well in any ship as they actually have player skills not dependend on using OP ships alone ( check the worst ships in game and there will still be puple stat unicums doing exeptionally well in them ) And in reality in ranked they much more likely get a full barrage of Cruiser and even BB fire support, in sharp contrast to in randoms where everyone seem to think it a good idea to block their own guns with islands and leave their DD ( and actually CV planes too, because they do not fire at AA cruisers either ) on their own.

With speed and using some extend of WSAD you dont have to evade the parachute bombs.....a lot of the damage will be too slow to arrive and just fall in the water anywhere around the ship and thus not do maximum damage it can do. Fat HP pool BB and Supercruisers - the ones that primarily will be hit - can shrug off a little damage so that is not the end of the world. Players in FDR know all about that......it too is only 100 % effective against large campers that either lay completely still behind some island or are slowly moving in reverse. Anything that is smaller or has speed takes a lot less damage from it's attacks, or even takes no damage at all. It is the same for parachute bomb attacks. they fall SLOW. Therefore taking huge damage from such air attacks is a matter of shame, a lack of player skill as that can happen only to very large ships that not should be camping behind rocks, unable to do anything against incoming air attack. They behave and actually are like dummy targets as like that you cant even miss them. Screaming and fulminating CC should have point that out, these mechanics are designed to work against camping of very large ships that should not be camping......And when every enemy is moving FDR will have a very hard time getting a score above a rediculous 40k. But that almost never happens, there is an abundance of large ship campers......and cluncky and frustrating ( 20 sec attack lock after very attack ) handeling as it is, serving high damage spikes to stationary large campers never gets old. All that said, the new replacement skill of the removed dead eye is a good hint toward the very large camper acting playerbase too.....WG is actually helping you...speed is life ! When one thinks of it, the coming of another anti- large camper mechanic might reduce FDR's effectiveness to a point it is no longer viable......no very large campers, no acceptable FDR play/score. So im unsure afterall if i should be happy with it...

It may be true that in a pure 1:1 situation with a skilled player in it a Smalland is a difficult target. But how many times you get in such a situation ? There are radar Cruisers and CV planes out to get him too when spotted. There is a DD captain skill spoofing a lot of the incoming ROF of Smalland on contact, deminishing much of the meaning of such a high ROF. When you play tactical it is probably not even full HP anymore and you can easily win the HP pool race to the bottom with it. And there are lots of DD that only marginally have lower ROF, be it naturally or by gun reload boost. And like in an now ancient Western movie with ol Clint Eastwood.....keeping calm when you aim - even when the enemy is spraying you - goes a long way in actually making the shots count, propably a reason why my Paolo Emlio did unexpectedly well in a capping role in 2nd season ranked . And we all know the ROF of that boat don't we ? Those shots when they hit, hit very hard however. That all means in the past ranked seasons when in DD ( notable in Marecau a lot, i have used Halands before i reset the line for the 3rd time, and more recent the ZF-6 that on gun reload boost can do wonderous things ) i did not fear Smallands over any other DD. When in CV they are actually a relief because Hallands on DFAA are much nastier to deal with.

What you say is true for almost any poll. It is near impossible to represent all answers players would like to give. And ofcourse, the bias here is i assume WG tries to deminish Operations in favor of forcing more players in certain now less populated tiers into the MM system ( PvP ) as that system's balancing works a whole lot better with sufficient players available for PvP. I would not mind so much if i didn't value what Operations can ( and did ) offer : far less toxic, far more relaxed game mode where you can still challenge yourself by trying new tactics within the envelope of what your ships can do. But having to play such a limited selection of Operations even trying new tactics grows boring. Removed Ops should be restored, and fresh new ones added. Not screaming CC fulminating over the lastest overpowered ship or how that would affect your all world important WR (aaarggh my nerves my WR might fall with this OP ship coming in the game WTF wg aaaarhhgghh lol ) make this game attractive for me....far from it, i am just as happy using ships that can be years old already and even ships that are difficult to make perform ( THAT is what requires skill, not using OP ships....) As for WG getting income out of it...i am actually BUYING premiums and perma camo's just for Operation use to actually enjoy ships characteristics.......not to be "OP" in pvp enviroment. But i have many T5 premium ( mostly earned with events ) and T8 premiums i dont even use as i dont like to play randoms with them. ( i do like PvP ranked at T9-T10 however ) I very much would wish there were Operations in their tier range. This should be important to them as i know i am by far not the only one.

You are right ! I had forgotten there was a RU DD with a secondary mount too, since it was tech tree and i progressed past it and sold it. It goes for that one too ofcourse. I dont expect secondary accuracy as it have become after the captain skill rework allows these single mounts to transform into OP killing machines........but it would sure be nice if they once in a while hit and at least contributed to fighting that enemy somewhat. And for that they really need more then 4 km. Which does not offend historic references at all.

That.... A lot of long range sniper BB take damage rather poorly. Thunderer is no exception. Now that WG forces it come a little closer it has also become a little more vulnerable. It never took air attack very well even in the back of the map though.

However BFT & AFT could before the rework enhance secondary gun values somewhat. Against surface targets. That is now missing, that is the issue brought up. Many secondary guns that are not on BB or Cruisers seem forgotten by developers working on the captain skill rework and have not only the new general piss poor accuracy affecting all secondary guns but now also completely useless low range that cannot be buffed since AFT & BFT got removed from classes and not all got something back in it's place to compensate. The dissappointing thing is these guns are found on ships no one seems to care about : a few DD and most ( non German ) CV. And CV did receive a means to enhance secondary guns, although no one in their right mind would invest 4 points into that given you need ALL the points into your planes or lose extreme amounts of combat efficientcy. DD have not received such a replacement skill.....even though most would probably not take it since it does nothing for their main battery or AA anymore. Old BFT&AFT enhanced the main battery aswell.....it was perfectly viable to take these skills, and more then likely it WAS balanced that way. Including the odd secondaries on these DD.

And lets not forget the players that seem to think they should report you for bringing a T6 into an otherwise all T7 ranked match, and likewise report T8 in an otherwise all T9 ranked match, and bringing T9 to a T10 ranked match..... Despite your ship tier is mirrored so the enemy has 1 lower tier too..... Freedom to choose your ship ( enjoyable gameplay ) you can't have either.....if the team think you are "weakening their team" by bringing "the wrong ship".....- karma for you. Yeah that's meaningless but it makes one wonder to the state of mind these players are in. I wonder if they even enjoy playing all the ships and their characteristics ( playing the WHOLE game ) or are only tunnel visioned in using exclusively and nothing other the strongest ships.....and given a chance force others play such a poor and limited experience too.....It is therefore quite fortunate karma is meaningless and does nothing......

I have all 3 of them and i would go with Orkan. 1 good reason above the others : Orkan's are rare in game. Many ( smoke popping ) players can be taken by suprise that not expect DD borne radar and a very small target surface pesenting, bow facing target with 4 guns blazing coming directly for them. A lot of rival DD only have 2 guns in front and must present more target area to unmask their guns. Besides that it's very fast 12 km, 80 knot speed torpedo's are very workable to hunt larger prey after snuffing DD's that are in the way/cap.

Did they have 4 km range ?

I have seen them at work and followed the conversations about it on EU and NA forums. And i agree with the observation these bombs fall very slow on parachutes ! Which means anything moving probably barely cathes a scratch to their paint. Yes there are Cruisers designed to use rock cover as they cannot operate in open water or be killed instantly. But the bomb spread is without much doubt tailored to hitting very large ships, that should not camp behind rocks much like to what FDR is designed for. So a camping Alaska being snuffed.....that would be about the right damage to the right target. Alaska should not hide ( block it's own guns an leaving any friendly DD out to be killed be the enemy ) behind rocks, neither do any BB sized ships. I have yet to see proof of what happens to much sleeker light Cruisers that happen to be designed to hide behind rocks. And so far i know most of these pack DFAA as well, and can be skilled into making DFAA even more powerful. The limited charges of DFAA could be in line with the limited charges of that Dutch air strike, but that is of yet speculation. I doubt this mechanic was not thought through. So if that mechanic is designed to knock campers that should not be there by design out of camping spots : i am all for it as i hate it to get no support in a DD because such players again blocked their own field of fire to support me.