Beastofwar

T5 : Exeter heal, 203 mm guns, torpedo's T6 : Graf Spee heal, 280 mm guns, torpedo's T7 : Abruzzi heal, fast ROF 152 mm, torpedo's T8 : Atago heal, 203 mm guns, torpedo's Every cruiser without heal or smoke i hate with a passion because it forces you to standoff range fighting. In Operations that is not good enough, fail objectives when you cannot take damage. I want to use those torpedo tubes....up close, and survive that. No i don't mistake cruisers for battleships or destroyers...

Bots shoot the nearest visible ship and are pretty accurate. You should never be the nearest visible ship if there are multiple bots that can fire on you. It is not so different from randoms in that perspective.....

Can't say i had trouble with the torps but the bots ahead of the pack go down so fast it's even hard to get more then 1-2 torpedo's hit before they explode from concentrated gunfire of teammates. The killing is so fast it becomes frustrating if you want to get mission parameters completed......what chaotic circus......it gives a good impression where the players that do not understand the objectives in Operations, and just shoot te "red ones" come from.... I alternated Jervis with Cossack, but the latter is a bit problematic against bots if you want to shove as many torpedo's in ships as you can.......the thing has only 1 launcher. There you are launching on 1 bot while the others are just behind, looking at you with their main guns..... I'm sure that Cossack has it's uses, probably as a gunboat but stopping charging bots dead is not one of it's abilities......

When attacking enemy DD together with a friendly DD or other ship - they spot/attack the DD and you join in as that DD won't dissapear out of your sight turning unless it uses smoke - IJN strike fighters have become very powerfull after last changes. I killed 2 DD's in very rapid succession that way. Just like in the pre-nerf days. When DD not wanna die like that they should go to where the fighter comes out of their turn, they are unable to fire then. Downside i noticed is with such manouevering you move right into the guns of enemy cruisers and battleships, and you are spotted....

Nah they are just more enjoyable - longer lasting - versions op Coop.....

Sssssst !! If they take that away thats another nerf to my credits/xp income :-)

Well i agree when you face 2 CV in a DD the game can be very challenging, even when you do not rush to a cap in order to kill yourself in under a minute of match. CV tend to be around untill end game, there is little you can do to avoid coming under attack but closely operate with cruisers. But that takes away the fun roaming around, and stalking preys from stealth can have. In fact DD players are in reality much like WWI/early-mid WWII Submarine players, but they don't seem to recognise that. maybe they should in time switch classes, when options become avilable. I don't see how BB are so dangerous to DD that nerfs are in order. Adding submarines is in fact a huge nerf to BB too, and gives DD an additional role, more usefull then rushing the cap getting themselves killed.

No in bot games cruiser and battleship AA is inefficient for some reason, you don't need to avoid AA type ( as they are in randoms that is ) cruisers there. Still have to watch not to attack overlapping AA of formations of ships as that does kill you. You do learn to single out stragglers or solo warriors there too, but as you say the fastest bot ( often DD ) is usually ahead so ''solo'' enough to pick off. That is not much different from randoms. If you ask me how that can be i'd say bots do not seem to have full AA captain point/ship upgrade builds, or maybe any builds at all. And/or do not use the AA zone mechanic ? Either way i have up to now never seen the AA cruiser "no fly zone' as they can be in randoms. Also bots do not seem to use fighter consumables. All in all that is a huge difference in difficulty to overcome in randoms, yes.

How about when you aim and there are ready shells in the barrels it refuses to fire for another 1 second ? That is what they did to T8+ rocket fighters.....making you unable to fire at your target after you come out of a tight turn. But no i do not really wish for that...i play all ships, every nerf will hit me in game enjoyablilty.

Coop bots are easier to deal with then Operations bots, as in Operations they often come in formations where in Coop they scatter into individual bots more, but Coop bots are perfectly able to concentrate fire on human players that are charging them alone and sink them in seconds. I would like to see Coop as a perfect enviroment to hone aiming skills and quick killing ability. You must be some kind of "potato" not to use Coop when you do certain type missions :-)))

Yubari is pretty much an early and weaker example of what AA cruisers will become, and otherwise an overgrown Destroyer ( flotilla leader ) with accurate but not so powerful guns. That would make it's main role to escort DD's and assist against enemy DD's or attacking aircraft. Just like RL flotilla leaders would have done. And torpedo anything else when you can get close enough, but you are no DD despite it looks like one...

Now you say this i do use it like this yes.......use it to try help ships next to you that are under attack, while you are not busy fighting with other ships. That is it. Otherwise i do not bother.....100 % around is better as aircraft come in everywhere after their 1st pass. Just as mentioned since it is clumpsy to switch ( not 2 simple buttons ) it cannot be used in the middle of a fight with other ships, or you lose precious control for crucial seconds.

Coop just means bots charging ahead shooting anything they see. Your job in a CV is just stopping them fast enough before they get to your CV itsef which they will do. Many operations are like that too. You get to hone your effectiveness because if you are not effective they will be sinking your CV. In randoms gameplay is slower pace. Human players push for caps but not risk being deleted pushing relentlessly as bots do. That is why Coop matches are much shorter. In randoms you need to use strategy and use tactics more. Just attack the wrong targets and see fireballs instead of squadrons, you need skills to indentify what you can attack. That is what's different. Coop and operations are very good enviroments to learn to strike quick and precise, but they will not learn you what you can attack and what not in randoms as bots do not use protective formations with murderous overlapping AA umbrella's. Just get over the fact you as CV can't deplane an enemy CV anymore and shut it down, WG deliberatly wanted it that way, a design choice. Only way now to shut it down is to sink it......that won't happen fast, i tried it several times and needed half the match not being able to do anything else and losing many aircraft. However CV become more dangerous as other ships get damages and scattered. It is a viable thing to try to sink it before end game.

No but CV gameplay was dumbed down compared to RTS. In RTS you needed to control several squadrons at the same time and your CV. According to WG that was too difficult for most of the player base. But.....without skills you fare very poor at the current CV gameplay. The continuous nerfing made sure of that. No connection to the enemy ? Try to hit him under murderous AA cruiser no fly zone FLAK and no fly zone fighter consumables, and have a decent credits score afterward lol. Yes there is skill involved, it's just not contested air supremacy skill and you cannot achieve air domination. You can still attack enemy CV if you are determined.....even with your CV as ship and it's secondary batteries itself ( i do that late game when only enemy CV remain ) Never say never when you want air supriority fighters back. WG may come to the conclusion they are needed again.

You do not target cruisers in the first half of the match, you avoid them.....cruisers are for other ships to sink. Late match you can attack them if they are the only survivors .....chances are their AA modules are busted and their AA has weakened and they do not have many hitpoints left.

CV has it's counter in powerful AA cruisers and facing a CV all ships should sail in formations that cover each other under overlapping AA umbrella's. Doing that you shut a CV down, then it is dead weight to the enemy team. I did not say lemmingtrain.....formations can be 3-4 ships also. It is more powerfull moving and shooting together with combined power anyway. It is not for nothing IRL navies do that too, protecting their most capital ships with smaller AA or anti-torpedo boat screens on the outside of the formation . DD can be somewhat foreward of such formation as eyes of this formation, but not too far out so it can speed back for protection/combined firepower. I have full confidence you don't need CV's if you have proper counter ( AA) ships and tactics that prevent ships sailing alone and vulnerable to attack.

I think AA power is weak compared to the other CV in it's tier and the secondary batteries are weaker too. ( important because these damage/kill close DD ) It does have an armour belt, supposedly because it was a heavy cruiser so it seems somewhat capable of hunting other CV with it's secondary guns in endgame. The torpedo's seem much slower and miss fast cruisers a lot even when leading far more then i am used too.....leading much and slow torpedo's make evading easier. The bombers are frustrating to use because they more or less require to come in over the bow or stern and bomb in the length of the ship. Not easy if these are evading all the time, turning away so you cannot bomb in the full lenght of the ship.

With Nelson alternating Duke of York, King George V and Hood it was over reasonably soon. But i had to select randoms, as the bots get killed too quick to be on fire long enough. In randoms enemies last longer, if you single out a BB and set it on fire over and over a gain you get long running fires. It does not make for the smartest play in randoms BB spamiing HE, as AP would be much more damaging...but hey...missions. Must continue to fire HE - win or lose - untill mission is done.

Well you are awarded XP for spotting, damage-upon-spotting and shooting aircraft down too......apparently you did a lot of that whithout noticing. It's not only the direct damage that counts in CV, just like in DD. It is often the credits that disappoint........especially after costs are deducted....

Secondary batteries do not do heavy damage but they do kill damaged ( because unarmoured ) DD over and over again, as they are supposed to.....that Shiratsuyu died of seconday battery fire, that York by my secondary fire and that of a Dunkerque that could win the match after my CV finally exploded after Izumo was next to me. That Izumo has some nasty AA on it ( just like fighting CQC CV to CV ) in close quarters combat i was unable to lauch aircraft without them being shot down before even leaving the deck. While you can sink enemy CV with secondary fire, a high tier battleship is too much.....but it did help.

I experienced that T6 UK CV did more and easier damage, they are/were a joy to play in Operations against bot waves.....it was obvious a nerf was coming. Although the nerfs looks more like a change now, with more aircraft but worse accuracy. I guess i can life with that better then just nerfs.

Me too......why does WG not allow to do operations to for the mission objectives ? Coop bots sink too fast and are too few, randoms have players with beefed up fire prevention and repair parties. Operations would be perfect.

Did use it, but stopped doing it as it seems to be counter-productive. As CV player i attack a ship, pass the ship accelerating and when the distances is optimal i decellerate in a turn and come around for another pass. This untill all my aircraft have detached or got destroyed. Ofcourse other CV players do this to, it's part of the new mechanic that only 1-3 aircraft get to launch weapons per attack pass. This means that when you defend one side 125 %, the aicraft will pass over and come around to attack the other, 75 % defended side. This side is ofcourse weaker then it would be at 100 % when you did nothing. You can change zone sides but can you spare the time when engaged in a shootout against surface opponents ? I'd rather not. 100 % to all sides is good enough when your ships AA is strong enough to begin with. In CV i have never used that at all. CV AA + fighter patrol seems capable enough to do well wihout it. Why use it on other ships ? If their AA is weak correct zoning will prove be a very weak buff indeed.

Yesterday i lost almost all of Newport Ops except for 1 that had such a good team that made achieving a 5 star look like a walk in the park, and another one where i fought alone for minutes in that shitty De Grasse tub - the fact this Ops gives heals kept me alive - and actually won by torpedoing the last ships in desperation. Note the amount of secondary battery hits, that heated was the fight against ovewhelming odds, and De Grasse is no Battleship.... Since it comes down to waves of bots i guess it is all about marksmanship and positioning. If all players know what to do it is easy. If there are 2/3 clueless players you have hell to play, and probably lose.

I use T6 premiums mainly in operations for fun, XP and credits but noticed cruisers without heals ( and no heal provided in that Ops ) generally do very poorly against bots. It Coop that seems true also. I recon in randoms or other modes you just don't go to the front lines to be shot at, deal long range damage and dance around incoming fire you do get. But the bots have different ways and completing objectives usually prevents you can do that standoff type of combat....need to push although you cannot be up front. I used the Graf Spee, it did well, survive. I used the Dunkuerque it did well, survive. I use the de Grasse.....get wacked after 3 min in the Ops like a noob. I'm sure i'm making a player mistake - never figured out why that Budyonny, Shcors ans Chapayev are/were so much loved either, but those are tech tree - and and wondering if it should have a heal as it is a big ship....it seems to suffer without a heal. What balances out it's lack of a heal anyway ? What is so good it should do without ? Duca de Aosta a bit the same thing....only it is a smaller ship. Why do premium Cruisers - without smoke - lack heals ?