Beastofwar

You do understand Geman ofcourse/Sie verstehen Deutsch ja ?

I took 3 x of such defeats in a row.....that is why a get angry if claim WR is skill based.....

I am 100 % against it as i feel almost all CV nerfs were slapped on to reduce the effects of 2 or even more CV per side. CV aircraft were never game wrecking, but a sky full of aircraft of multiple CV are game wrecking to other players. As for myself i do not want a wrecked game for other players in other classes, not in the least because this is the cause for nerfs coming that wreck my game as well. As a player of these other classes i don't want a sky full or aircraft either. And the only simple solution always was 1 CV per match.....no sky full of aircraft, no sure DD herassment/destruction by aircraft in all caps, no nerfs nessesary at all.

What i make of it OP seems concerned the ability to not be in a high end clan while you are a skilled player by creating your own clan and enjoy most of the same benefits will lead to less powerful clans with less able players.....leading to poorer quality competition. That does not fly because many of these skilled player individualists would not join a clan otherwise anyway, or would but not be dedicated enough to show up at certain times, excerise in combined tactics and such and thus not be fit to be competitive clan battle players anyway. And OP should realize - i think he does - that 1 man clan progression will not lead to the highest buildings/bonusses that are too expensive unless you are a big succesfull clan. So if you seek such rewards, you will join real clans anyway. So...there is no problem. All is as it should be

It has drawbacks.....i shot 5 successive citadels into one with a mere T8 Roma. It was like a hot knife through butter. I did not see anything like it except for shooting broadside cruisers. The most amusing thing about it is with a secondary build the 155 mm's can shoot at DD's up to 10.1 km but reliably kill them at ~7 km, all on their own. In ranked i checked where DD were for their torpedo threat but left them completley to the secondaries, so i could aim the heavy guns with excliusively AP at more worthwhile hitpoint targets. When broadside it's 9 x 155 mm which is almost cruiser power firing at the DD, not using any main guns. They never failed me. For that i like the ship, not for it's powerul main guns much more ships have ( be it "smaller" caliber but that does not say much ) I fear even the Yamato with fewer large secondary guns will disappoint me...

I can't switch AP to HE instantly so that is impressive of the bots....funny and informative to actually test that

Despite several nerfs and not using the 4 point aiming captain skill i have no problem hitting DD with rockets. The mentioned 89 rockets were hitting rockets, out of probably 2x-3x as many fired. This does not bother me. The problem is these rockets do no damage or absurd low damage. And only to DD, when they hit other ships they are suddenly potent weapons. In operations i stopped using rockets completely, for me that is a hard fail in too much nerfing becoming even more obvious then in PvP matches. When i did fire T6 rockets on bot DD they did ~750 damage per strike.....that is not stopping any DD entering the bay area. it is not interesting from a scoring point of view. Hell, that is plain and utterly useless ! A US DB nerf would not surprise me. If it is only against DD i'm ok with it, maybe then we can talk seriously about the need of unnerfing rockets ( agianst DD ) again. DD players need to change tactics. Many smart ones did, some harcore still did not. WG gave the smart ones breathing room to adapt. Now it is time to reintroduce proper counter play against them again. With strike fighters, not with US DB only. It is rediculous you can only fight DD effectively with 1 nation CV. With a US DB nerf, no CV's will be able to. I like DD gameplay too. But i think it is not nessesary at all to nerf aircraft. It is nessesary MM does not shove 4 CV in 1 match ! And some hardcore finally adapt to a changing world. Organisms that can't are usually disposed by nature....

I stand corrected as i once knew this, just never used it for it's effect and totally forgot about it... I will certainly try to use this, thnx :-) And this is true also....i used it only to make persuing BB's shooting my CV turn away and therefore losing me out of sight/get out of range of their guns.

And there is the fact that game developers design the limits and abilities of what a clan can do in game. If they not force to be a minimum of X number of active players that are booted if they have not X number of activity or Y number of performance then you can assume you are doing what they though you should be able to do. And your opinion will not change that. ( wasting your time typing as we all do probably :-) But this is also true for all of their game designing. We can object, but do out opinions really matter ?

What tier are you speaking of ? - My IJN torp bombers need a 5 km approach before these damned torpedo's even arm and the aiming window is narrow enough to hit anything i intend to hit. And it better be a BB, cruisers already evade much too easy. Let alone nimbe DD. - My UK torp bombers have such slow torpedo's - even with torpedeo acceleration i use on all CV - they are difficult to even hit lumbering BB's with - All T6-T8 torpedo bombers need a 4-5 km attack run to hit anything that does not evade too readily. The only exception i noticed it T4, those really do turn on a dime, but they are slow as hell and nerfed by that fact. But maybe the difference in experiencing what aircraft can do lies in me not taking the 4 point aiming skill. I do well enough without ( see screenshots ) it, but it could make it easier to hit DD and cruisers that i have not noticed.

Submarines would be just a slower type of DD, with a reduced and less flexible aiming torpedo salvo capability ( only 4 fixed foreward tubes for most of them ) and different kind of concealment method. And at least 5* ways to be destroyed, wich is 1 more then a DD face. So there is nothing to fear from it being added. No rational fear that is. DD's are way more dangerous and powerful. The only gimmick that may be considered dangerous is that some can fire torpedo's at persuiers with rear facing tubes. But they do not have rotating torpdeo launchers as DD have. * 1) Torpedo''s 2) Rockets 3) Bombs 4) Shelling 5) Depth charges So there it is...all that are against it's introduction suffer from irrational fears. They cannot even produce valid concerns against it, other then "CV rework sucks" They cannot prove DD are not way more dangerous then Submarines would ever be. With detection methods already in game ( hydro>submerged radar>surface ) it would be easy to balance it's threat, even easier if sonar is introduced. There is no reason to think depth charges will be weak, every reason to assume they will be rather strong just like AA is just to give the against-players something to help to eventually accept it. And WG....their sales department will sell dedicated submarine hunting editions of new or altered premium ( DD/CL ) ships, just as they did with exceptionally strong premium AA cruisers. That is creating a market/demand, very WG. And premium famous Submarines ofcourse. You think they would leave all this potential money to be had outside their pockets ? Lol !

DD's job is not rushing to a cap unsupported and dying there. DD players that want to live only enter caps with support that can protect them from air attacks and help kill the enemy DD that will be there also. AA cruisers are most suited for that, but an allied CV can support the effort to kill the enemy DD also. ( and throw out a fighter consumable over your head now and then ) Btw : a CV can cap. But that is usually late game when there is nothing left with enough HP that can oppose the CV's secondary batteries and live, or only CV's remain on both sides which aircraft cannot touch an upgraded and enhanced CV's AA. Enough matches where i was with a T8 CV thrown in together with a T 10 CV. But almost always just mixed Tier X matches ( see result screen shots of the only 2 T8 CV games i played this evening ) But if you mean as Tier X DD dealing with all the radar cruisers and such, yes you are right i have and have not. I have T8 DD's that are thrown in mixed Tier X matches and although i can deal with aircraft in a DD, but i find dealing with radar much more difficult. You can't always be behind some island.

That naval battle stuff really speeds up building a base on your own....have all 100 oil buildings standing already. The 400 oil ones could be fast like this in this manner also. And then i have my active tiers V-VIII small but substantial over time bonusses covered already. More bonusses is possible over time ofcourse, but i am very happy to see bonusses mentioned in the battle financial screen

Divisioned ofcourse, nothing to see here.

Only using US CV is not a solution to get around nerfed strike aircraft for all CV's. IJN AP divebombers : useless against DD UK carpet bombers : useless against DD All rocket fighters : useless against DD Now how are you going to defend your IJN or UK CV against DD that come near your CV ? Not with aircraft obviously. So what you think is not worth taking actually is able to kill DD where you fail with aircraft. My CV secondaries killed countless DD already, mostly bots but some human player piloted ones too. And that is another matter : when you play Operations either bots are in your face so you will need the secondaries to sink them before they sink you, or you are again because of the nerfs unable to stop bot DD crossing objective lines failing mission stars. I don't care you can divebomb them with US divebombers.....i do that too believe me. And it is a matter of time before that is nerfed too. But the fact that i can't with IJN or UK makes this an unimportant feature that requires other methods of killing DD. Because you need to be able to kill them.

Well a player has the choice of a build of his own choosing. And a choice he can make is give his CV a (partial) secondary build that will give secondary guns that reach out almost 7 km at Tier 8 with a high ROF spamming HE hells and tracking and aiming automaticly all targets in range. With even more (captain) points invested you can have those secondaries scary accurate as well, and make no mistake, the Lexington has 12 x 127 mm per side.....it will outright kill unarmoured DD's, especially when you are at top speed with the DD chasing, not being able to use it's torpedo's. But going offensive on that DD if you can take a few torpedo's on the bow will kill that unarmoured DD often too before he can launch again. Easy to survive with such a large HP pool, and some CV even have armour belts and torpedo (damage absorbing) bulkheads. In Operations even the T6 CV can kill bot light cruisers, sometimes even burn down BB's. This option seems to be neglected because some YT'ers and other players of note frown upon it and dictate a "more useful build" that emphasizes on long range accuracy, concealment or other options purely for PvP performance. But slowly more CV realize the secondaries can blow DD out of the water too, and even much more then that. And for some captain points more powerfull AA synergizes with more powerful secondaries, which is a very attractive defensive option. Some weeks more and there could be calling to nerf those. Long text cut short : you don't even need that "consumable" if you use all options available to you now. ( But it probably could not stop that T 10 armoured DD from sinking me if i would have allowed it to torpedo me )

He is not trolling. I am doing exactly the same as he says. Almost have the first building up, just 100 oil for many of the the first buildings and it's 10 oil per XP chest, don't have to do anything special but just play the game as usual. Those are too nice small but noticable benefits to miss out on, and you don't have to endure others to get it. Not that enduring others is always a bad thing. But it often turns out to be in my experience, and i do know i am the constant factor. So i prefer this. Those coal and steel buildigs are expensive ....but i probably not use them and not need them as there is nothing for coal i want right now, i have 2 x coal bought T9 and coal commanders already. Steel i am not interested in. Unreachable unless doing whole other activities then i want to do anyway. Btw : in WOW ( without the S) i did the same thing once. If games offer the possebility of a 1 man clan with smal but over time substantial benefits, why not use it ? Besides that - in WOWS - is it pleasant to have a base of your own and building that up. Adds to the atmosfhere of the game. And with my personality it is nice that it is my own base, not someone elses.

You can target enemy CV's in T4 and T6 but not above that, their AA becomes too strong.....the IJN Shokaku (T8) for example with an upgraded hull has 60 AA guns....they are way more powerful then notorious "no fly zone" AA cruisers. You can sometimes use that in the end game, by protecting allied cappers with your ship itself, or doing the capping yourself when only 1-2 enemy CV survived. The surviving enenmy CV are deadly to anyone else denying capping until the timer runs out but not to you. In Tier 10 games when you are Tier 8 you can only target the weakest AA ships. That is why i went after that DD all match long, but that specific one was like an AA cruiser itself too...... Mid-late match there may be heavy wounded ships that you can kill with a single strike....those are worth losing a squadron over, because you remove enemy firepower out of the match. Other then that there may be some other Tier 8-9 ships that have somewhat more tolerable AA but i wouldn't count on that. I see a lot of pure Tier 9-10 matches where 1 of the CV on both sides is screwed and the only Tier 8 in the match. That is hard and actually unenjoyable. *EDIT* Please refrain from making comments which are clearly inflammatory and will only result in non-constructive discussions. _Teob_

Point taken but why is it ok if a weapon (Rockets) against a specific target is nerfed almost useless ? And that weapon is just replaced by a not intended weapon ( divebombs ) against that target that just will be nerfed next. And no one answers on the question what to do with IJN AP bombs.....these are useless against light armoured targets, even fall though full size cruisers without damage. UK 'carpet" bombers with the eliptical bomb reticule and drop pattern can not even reliably hit evading DD's. So what is this "learn to dive bomb" nonsense. It flies only for US CV with HE bombs and that is not good enough to compensate for the nerfed rockets of all CV's. In fact i struggle even against bot DD in Operations, cannot stop them fast enough not crossing critical borders without my CV ship secondary batteries. And there is already protest against doing such things, you may apparently not kill with your CV ship itself according to some players. Whatever gave them that idea.... And i cannot understand why rockets are spawned in hell by the devil himself according to the most fanatic nerf callers, but divebombs ( doing potentially more peak damage ) are ok......explain this please as to me it makes no sense.

If the (loaded) torpedo tubes were hit by penetrating projectiles and violently exploded breaking your ship in half or cracking it's spine - which was a RL risk - you would not even want them. I also do not think Battleships and Battlecruisers in Randoms can use these heavy torpedo's often. I sometimes do wish the Roma would have them as i like to brawl with that one.

It is this, i honestly admit it. I do have a premium account most of the time but i will be "stuck" at T7 for many months to come because i play all tech tree ships of that tier and a bunch of premiums or premium camo tech tree T6 ones for operations that do not progres. I only have a few premium T8 ships which i don't use that much except for the CV's. Up to now i used TiT's that didnt kill fast either, but do better then HVAR's against such opponents obviously. And as stated, i do not believe in deivebombers effectiveness against skilled and slippery evading DD's. And what if you use IJN or UK CV's ?? Rockets were designed for that purpose in game, but are too nerfed to be effective now. Certainly if you consider hitting loaded torpedo tubes with them.....that DD should violently blow up.

As i understood heavy torpedo launchers on the decks or stored torpedo's near the lauchers are very dangerous to the battlecruiser/battleship carrying them. A conventional exchange of large gun shellfire can easily detonate them for extreme damage. You might say in that respect the Graf Spee's lauchers are in the perfect position to survive them being catastrophically hit. Most RL warships can miss a section of the stern or bow and stay buoyant. I wonder if this is modelled in game, treating (loaded) torpedo tubes or their storage area as dangerous volatile magazines. .......i think not because DD would more readily explode if it was.

I think all DD should be nerfed to lauch firecrackers to balance them against what was done to CV's..... Nah these French DD seem to offer a fresh variation of DD. I will probably like them as i do somewhat like the Aigle as a gunboat.

I can imagine the only one that can stop a Tier X mini- armoured cruiser designated by WG as a Destroyer would be a Tier X real armoured cruiser.... Good thing i didn''t turn around and engage him with secondary batteries....that only works well on unarmoured DD and he was too tough to be tempted to do that even though i didn't know what was the cause. Now at least he could not use his torpedo's for the whole time he chased us. And for that fact, tying up the only DD for the whole match ( and killing an oppertunity BB ) is not such a bad thing right.....he could have sunk half the allied fleet instead.

I think the rework can be concluded failed for a whole different reason : i rarely see any UK T8 Implacable's used ( seen one up to now ) which must mean WG seems not to have sold that many air supply boxes. I didn't go for it either, while i am an enthousiast CV user. But i am still angry what they did to the strike fighters. So much nerfing...that is just player dissapointment. Maybe they nerfed CV a little too rigorous to please the disgruntled DD players that proved unable/slow to adapt to develop new tactics ? Refused to not rush to a cap and die there ? No one is interested in playing a rigorous nerfed down ( compared to rework release ) class. Now there will be even more DD.....i guess these ( event boxes ) will sell better.