Beastofwar

And this, yes. As a CV player when i am sunk, it is most likely a Cruiser that does it. Right behind that Battleships as they are usally slower unless high tier. Once spotted and in range of their guns you are pretty much toast. But in rare occasions it can be DD ( often they are the ones spotting and Cruisers and Battleships that kill upon spotting since their guns are way more powerful ) or another CV too. A CV still can kill another CV ( especially T4 and T6 ) but he needs to dedicate himself to it using half the match minimum in which time he can not do anything else and a lot of lost aircraft. In the RTS days one strike could do it, now that is impossible.

I think players stating CV were buffed over their predecessors have forgotten how the predecessors were. Back in the day these were pretty rare to see if you didn't play them yourself, so could even have been forgotten while they were still there. No one seems to remember being sandwiched between 2 torpedo squadrons each coming from one side of your ships laying 5 torpedo's in the water you cannot escape. Instant deletion. I always used to have a 3rd squadron over it to strike it with bombs just to make sure it got blapped. Often was not nessesary. Using 5 squadrons simultaneously.....it is forgotten. Such power of instant deletion is gone. I am pretty sure players that think CV are now more powerful confuse more attacks with more power.

Actually for it to work you don't have to spec into enhancing the secondaries that specificly at all. Besides obvious aircraft skills you could consider : - secondary battery modification 1 ( instead of the AA or longer attack run one, gives your secondaries 20 % more range and 20 % less dispersion ) - survivability expert ( you probably take this point for the aicraft durability anyway, but it also adds to the HP of the ship so it can survive some DD torpedo's on the bow better ) - demolition Expert ( you probably take this skill anyway as it is very usefull for higher chance of fire by rockets and bombs, but as secondaries fire HE at a rate of 5-6 sconds per salvo they continue to set the target on fire. ) - advanced fire training ( you may not have taken that one, but is also boosts AA power and kills enemy players that want to sink you with aircraft, for the secondaries it gives you 20 % more range ) Without flags you will be sitting at 6.5 km range, automaticly engaging. They won't be very accurate at that range but very dangerous to a DD that is all but wrecked by the rockets of bombs you continously hit it with while your ship charges the DD. Only a few hits are needed as these weapons are not nerfed : ~1700 HE potential dmg per hit. T6 have about 4-6 guns so potentially 10.2K dmg per 5-6 sec, T8 have about 8-12 guns so potentially 20.4k dmg per 5-6 secs. Enough to kill DD very fast. Heavy damaged DD even faster. The wonderous thing is AI aims much better at wildly evading and high speed DD then humans often can. So the DD will always be hit by at least some shots an as stated, that is 1700 unnerfed potential dmg per hit. You don't need to/should not take manual fire control as that would take too many points away from effective CV operation hindering you always and benefitting you rarely. They also do not automaticly fire when ambushed which would cost precious seconds where a heavy damaged DD could already be exploding. It would however be even more extreme against DD as 60 % more accuracy with so many guns means the equlavent of up to 3 DD are firing on it. And you COULD do it if you wished, and when in a 1:1 situation with a DD you will probably come out on top as you outgun ( not outrange ) it and have aircraft over his head raining down rockets and bombs too. Some very vocal guys that are agianst this idea do not see : - Your score or CV abilities do not suffer significantly when you not use it all the time * - Your team is not hurt by this build when you don't use it all the time. - You won't lose more matches because if this whe you dont use it all the time. - Killing a DD and surviving the encounter is always good for the team. - Being able to sail into a cap with enemy DD in it, defeating it and capping it ( can't do that with aircraft, the ship has to be fysically there ) is always good for the team. - The CV shooting adds to the damage your aircraft do, overpowering the DD. These guys may be vocal about all that is wrong, but they will have this in the back of their head when they themselves want to attack a CV with a DD. Because now they must calculate with it could have more firepower with longer reach then they think it could have. And you can't be seen sinking losing to a CV now....that would be embarrasing. * winning or losing, nothing wrong with the performance corrected with what tier match it was, while you don't use the secondaries and these points are "wasted"

The 3 point 25 % torpedo detection is that useful for DD ? They get lauched at - across caps - a lot by other DD......might be useful to see them coming earlier ? And what ship modules are you guys using to clear incoming torps ? Rudder shift of acceleration ?

I think it is a very welcome addition. Why assume before it is even there, there will be abuse of it ? And if this would be possible in some cases, should that be a reason no clan can have it at all while it is useful to them ? Some guys and their conservatism.... But it may be a good plan - in general - to not allow thieves in your clan, or join a clan with a thief in charge.

I think this is often if not always the case with call for nerfs.....just applied because the majority of the players is not able to figure out to counter the threat.

You don't need to 'gid gut' to avoid air attacks, merely change your tactics. Simply staying under protective AA screens of larger ships somewhat longer after match start will mean you stay alive longer and live to get a higher score. Certainly higher then rushing to a cap to be killed there. Obviously because CV are in that match, they will take over the spotting in caps. That is why they always attack a DD there in the first place. Your role should change to prevent the enemy capping ( staying outside the cap under protetive AA of larger ships ) until local supriority makes it safe to cap. When there are CV around no ship can be a solo warrior. Not even isolated AA Cruisers. it is even always ill advised to be a solo warrior anyway, but DD learned they could get away with that for a long time. Now you are forced to unlearn that. Btw : not saying this as a "DD expert"....i struggle how to make them work myself. I say that as a pretty effective at killing DD with CV player. To me it is obvious what goes wrong as isolate targets are the weakest and best targets.

The economy in game is designed such, that at Tier X you are much more likely to pay for the game in one way or another. So that is why newer players are introduced to Tier X play. WG's way of having them experience "Now you are playing with power !" and desiring to be there too. Probably spending more money to get there in a hurry. That Tier X players do not like this.....hey too bad for them ( WG gives you the finger on this lol ) I don't say it is wrong for WG to want money for their effort presenting us this game to play. Obviously one should have salery if he/she delivers a working effort. But it is pretty obvious why they want newer players to try Tier X/ To throw newer players among those acustomed to Tier X matches.

Maybe he does die a lot because cruisers are for example are too focussed on /built for an AA role and are not hunting DD or screening BB because of that, or because they think the not always present CV, or allied DD's should do that. BB are lumbering beasts, can be very vulnerable to torpedo walls coming from nowhere. DD are pretty much anti-BB weapons, it is logical if one class in general not picking up a certain important task another class will suffer for it. If this is the case, i do not state that. But it could be. I just changed my cruisers from a AA build so i can imagine what OP says is not per definition his fault. But weaker AA screens from cruisers have their consequenses too, for BB....

Yes you are right, all the ships in one tier of all nations must be elited before i go a tier up. But that is not going to change, i play all games that way.

I always find that to be "useless" without a 1:1 or even 1:2 credits boost too. And i do think WG do not want to "help" us unlock stuff faster, i think WG want us to feel a need for buying credits. +300 XP unlocks stuff faster.....which you then cannot afford.....at least that is for me sailing around in partially stock T7 ships of all nations with partially their module slots filled.....i need way more credits then i need XP....

Are above reactions a usefull contribution to a discussion ? I don't think they are....

Maybe a lot of those cruisers still fear aircraft more ( or just want to kill a lot of them ) and chose anti-aircraft build and consumables instead of anti-DD ones. If they did it is somewhat logical they are reluctant to go up a stealth/smoked up DD that will just torp them too. "Once you get past the lance point, it like killing rabbits" This is the new build i am trying with my pre-radar cruisers using the free skill reset and some revision in ship modules. It is based on detecting torpedoes earlier and dodging them easier. When torpedo's become less of a threat those DD just become snacks for the Cruisers main guns that should be designed to whack DD's. But....this is only useable against lone, unsupported DD somewhere in the map. Those DD capping are supported by many very large guns that are just waiting to blow you away upon detection. By a DD or aircraft. So this build too is situational. I think the ability to kill DD is a tender point to many on these forums. Their stealth denied, their low HP boat eaten like a snack. But i do not think DD should be nerfed. Their life can be pretty hard if al anti-DD certain captain skills, consumables, modules and ship abilities are used against them. Just as it is hard for CV players if every single player has a maximum AA build on their ship. It is very noticable that players in general abandoned their AA builds. You could wonder what they are changing ther builds into.....if they are like me that could spell further doom upon DD players...... And then there are CV too....pretty anti-DD, at least i spend at least 1/3 of a match finding them and trying to kill them of have them killed. So no, i can't support you on that. But i am very much against rediculing, refering to (low) stats and other not-contributing behaviour that befalls you here. Should not happen in a "welcoming community" such as @MrConway calls it. I think some forum members are really derailed in their reaction to anything that is not to their liking.

Nah it is telling me to use the weaknesses of my enemies against them. Enraging those with huge ego's is mentioned in the book for example.

The whole concept of an attack with a CV ship on a human DD player ending in succes for the CV player is what the "Art of War" teaches : don't do what the enemy expects you to do. Before they recover themselves they are sinking. Maybe this frightens the fanatics, as it might be them. They are really good at doing predicatable things, that their "stats" do prove. Our fanatics do not know the names of the human players that were killed as i removed them in the picture, yet are hasty to brand them as players. I think that is some pretty crazed self entitlement. I should look into it, would be funny if these guys were purple stats DD players. Would be nothing left of all the rediculing then. And "anti social" because it is bad for the team ? If one insist to keep saying that he just chooses to ignore that when you win, you did nothing bad for the team, only removed a potentially dangerous enemy. Both DD were killed, both matches won....so what is the problem ? And yes lost aircraft do cost money. One of these crazed stat fanatics told me, and it is true, the cost is hidden under "service cost" you can see it with mouse over it. And ofcourse it is THE reason to no lose too many aircraft. Throwing them away easily costs 100-150k credits on top of the normal tier service costs which combined can thus easily be -250k credits. It is only to be considered when you get a whackload of damage in return, so you can still profit. But...as anyone could have noticed by now - and with the free skill reset it is certain - players in general are ditching their AA builds. The seem to perceive them as "useless" You do not have to go deep into aircraft preserving skills anymore, if that were at all nessesary to begin with. I did without.....still make nice profits. Even LOSING. ( stat fanatics fainting lol )

Well, thank you too then

Nah, i complained my weapons won't fire immidiatly after a tight turn. Due to a bad nerf. ( 2nd hotfix ) Whole other matter, really.

Thank you for mentioning that. I will try it and see if it works for me too. I won't ditch my build that fast but i could always make improvements.

Who says i am losing much aircraft ? Since you have to pay for each lost one, i know how to pick my targets..... I am always accelerating through FLAK, but slowing down on approach. Together with slight movement mouse aiming i have no complaints concerning aiming.

Again, only 2 DD made it that far...can't help that now.....won't steam up to them early or mid game as a kamikaze as you guys seem to insist i would do, nor will i always use it on every DD in sight as the heavy guns that may be just behind it will kill me where a lone ripped up by rocket attacks DD would not. Yes it is very situational. And "viable" ? It will most probably not increase your damage rate all the time as no one will most of the time not be attacking the CV ship itself. And yes, ofcourse i am moving my CV ship most of the time, in PvP matches i only trust these secondaries to deal with damaged DD, not bigger ships. But what talent choice/modules that i did not take would offer more damage or make me last longer ? I really don't need faster closing reticules ( mine are closed when i launch/drop ) or longer approaches. But please enlighten me when i am wrong there.....i will always listen to advice that is practisable. And one last thing : due to these specific talents my CV is immune to other CV's aircraft too, it not only enhances secondaries but also AA.

There is a difference in what DD players could do in theory, and what they actually can be seen doing. The screenshots of the 2 human players blowing up at the moment of death show the result of their and my actions, resulting in their deaths. These screenshots are undeniable facts : these DD got killed in game. What they could have done in theory...well, irrelevant because they didn't. How many - up to now theorycraft - reaaalll good players will kill me when i chose to execute this tactic....well....that has to be proven yet, because no one did in game. So all the name calling, pathetic attempts to insult me, stat "shaming" ( can only be done if you think they are important ) .....it does nothing. I''ll be blowing up DD in unconventional ways that amuse me and show players other then crazed stat fanatics what you could do for fun, and stat fanatics can revel in their stats.

Did your brains hurt reading sense ?

It is quite challenging - not impossible - to stay concealed near a CV that is lauching aircraft that fly toward the breach in the lines every several minutes, where you almost certainly came from. You will get overflown, but not attacked because players like me like to use torpedo's and bombs on bigger targets. More HP to be knocked off, and easier to hit. So the fanatic guy is somewhat right that often there is no real surprise, it is an attack by the CV with an < 10 km course set toward the DD full speed. While the DD thinks he will be chasing or at least intercepting the CV so the ships close in real fast. At some ~7km i will go back to the CV, mark that guy for death by right clicking secondary battery focus on him, and launch rocket fighters to engage the DD. I do not know what goes on in the mind of the DD player that discovers a CV is not only attacking him with rocket fighters, but his ship is also charging him at the same time. This is very unusual, so what to do ? Most launch their torpedo's when they think they have enough accuracy i recon. These will hit the CV on the bow ( i am autopilot correcting all the time from the aircraft ) and the torpedo bulkheads and large health pool will absorb that damage. If they are lucky that takes away 50 % to 70% of the CV's health, but often less. Meanwhile they too will be pretty ripped up by the rockets. That is at the point ( ~6.5 KM ) the secondaries will open up, T8's tend to fire 8-12 guns x 1700-ish HE dmg ( 13.8K - 20.4 k dmg ) every 5-6 seconds. Thats right, secondaries can explode a full health DD every 5 -6 seconds if they all would hit. Damage of continuously starting fires are not even in that figure. Ofcourse the secondaries do not reliably hit a t 6.5 km but with ever closing range - CV still charging at ~30 knots they will more and more. -But that DD at that moment is not full health, rockets already ripped it up pretty bad. So when the secondaries hit, they hit to kill. That is why i am pretty confident i win such engagements most of the time. In both pictures you see the DD smoking up in panic but that does not have effect as the CV has come either too close or they keep firing in panic as HP is depleted. The secondaries keep hammering.....and BOOOOOM. That is how it's done. That fanatic guy keeps ranting how this is not a vaid tactic but he seems to not recognise that his only happens late match when there are few ship left alive anyway, certainly not early or mid match. Then trading a very dangrous ( he can cap back allied caps in stealth and torpedo those that try stop him, and turn around the winning side ! ) DD for a CV often is worth it. And, when i do this, i obvioulsy am not the one that will get destroyed. The fanatic just does not wish to believe a CV can win this, as described. Or he thinks it is mandatory to flee and use nerfed aircraft ( all those that are NOT HE bombers ) to kill them, but that takes ages and is far less satisfying. Now i would like to see how they think with what modules or captain points i did "waste" they do better in a CV. Take into account secondary skill pionts synergize with AA skill points, they also make your CV almost completely immune to air attack. There is ofcourse one way out that may have the DD win : he keeps his cool and holds on the launch until he is sure it will be a full broadside all hitting. Then the CV will explode. But do recognise that is very hard if you see your HP zapping to zero beacuse rockets hit you relentlessely ( also knocking torpedo tubes and engines out at the wrong moment ! ) and secondary batteries salvo's keep hitting you with ever increasing accuracy too.

I could not tell if they are [edited], as every single DD that got to me was killed. But all those that never got there were killed after minutes of match start in the caps.....so what are they then, if the surviving DD are to be called [edited] ? These guys are oh so smart, but wait untill they try to sink a CV that is configurated like mine. They simply have never come across such configuration, so know not.

Idiot is missing an s here, it must be idiots.